- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
Or a Pagani Zonda R.
Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!
- Thread starter steamcat
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- 1,856
- Montreal
- oOJ-KiLLA240o
Actually for what it's worth Kaz has pointed out that sound is a top priority for them.
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- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
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Exactly. I see no proof!
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
You could apply this to everything. The physics won't be the same. The graphics won't be the same. The AI (if it has any) won't be the same.
Maybe so.
But this is PDs opportunity to show the world what GT6 is going to be like, and address some of the criticisms from GT5. If they fail to do so on the limited scale of a demo, what do you really think they can do in the next 3 months before the thing goes gold?
Honestly, while the sounds of the cars in the demo may not be exactly the same in the final game, I think it will give us a good idea of how seriously PD takes the sound thing. If they're identical to GT5, that's not a good sign.
- 1,856
- Montreal
- oOJ-KiLLA240o
Obviously not, this was only brought up a couple weeks ago.
Exactly. That's why I say wait until the game ships to formulate your judgement. It's clear that they have a long way to go and to be honest I'm not expecting any drastic changes until the PS4 comes around. I was simply pointing out to Stewie that they have sound as a top priority.
As stated previously, you're not going to see/hear any "proof" until later on. (That is if there is any improvement at all)
Try not to mistake me for trying to defend anybody when I'm not trying to, even in the slightest way.
dr_slump
Premium
- 7,425
- Switzerland
- the_dr_slump / GTP_dr_slump
I know, but it isn't that great to post a crappy video of something you want let people believe it's good.
- 4,878
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
The sound is a little better than GT5, better mix mostly
I like the extra distance reverb effects over GT5
The tyre sounds have more variation, as with the crash sound effects, if you just scrape a car there is a different sound, more like a crunching metal sound. I heard at least 3 different contact sounds - including the hollow thud on hard contacts
I like the extra distance reverb effects over GT5
The tyre sounds have more variation, as with the crash sound effects, if you just scrape a car there is a different sound, more like a crunching metal sound. I heard at least 3 different contact sounds - including the hollow thud on hard contacts
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- RattijuoppoFIN
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Actually, no. It's not really simulation - although the key to its ability to sound very different using the exact same settings, except a different engine configuration fed into the synthesis engine, does rely on a particularly useful insight regarding the physics behind it all. That's what that video shows, vanilla settings for one of the cars (in the Shift-A menu), with only the engine configuration, size, state of tune etc. modified. That car is supposed to have an inline 4, but it clearly sounds like a V10. It doesn't sound like an LFA, because that has a unique exhaust configuration that isn't accounted for in LFS's "presets". It's hard to explain how cool it is to someone who hasn't tinkered with it, so I recommend everyone grab the demo, grab an external tweaker, and hit Shift-A in the game!
Anyway, it was intended more as an example of a very crude source-filter model, which crucially T10 are looking into as well. The idea of the source-filter model is that you take a source waveform, pass it through a filter and you get your final sound. The problem is usually the source waveform itself, and in terms of "linear" systems (like the vocal tract, sort of), the filter part is quite often easily modeled. So for a vocal tract, you take a recorded sound, apply an inverse filter based on, say, an MRI of the structure of the vocal tract of the person saying the recorded sound, modeled as an ideal waveguide of sorts, and you end up with a source waveform. From there you can do all sorts of things by changing the "filter" and getting "interesting" sounds, try different vowels, or just learn something about how vocal chords work.
You can do this with engine sounds, too, but characterising the "filter" is harder, which means it's harder to accurately obtain the real underlying "source" waveform. It's not useless, though, as small changes can be made to the filter to create subtle changes in the sound, but major changes to the filter should also (in real life) result in changes to the source waveform...
What LFS shows is that even for arbitrary source waveforms (noise bursts), the final sound can sound something like an engine if the filter step is tackled in a certain way. Moreover, the timbre clearly varies more realistically (than the usual blended samples) over even the smallest change in engine speed, and it is infintely simpler to construct any engine type, in any state of tune you want, by fiddling with the physical parameters of the filter, and artistically tweaking the source by ear (e.g. towards some target set of recordings).
You can go several steps further than this, but I don't want to spoil it, for myself more than anything else. I will say that I have successfully taken samples and converted the apparent engine configuration in real time, and I have also synthesised engine sounds from scratch using various means, some targeting actual recordings (via analysis of those recordings), others only from physical parameters of the actual car / engine.
Whilst I could never manage to get the fidelity I wanted without needing to write special software to do certain crucial tasks (I can't code), I know that others (with more knowledge and actual programming chops) certainly can. This makes me very excited.
- 96
Better sounds takes a lot of work and this is just not a priority of PD. Heck we still have GT3 & 4 graphic looking cars in GT5 and soon GT6.
- 6
- United States
Proper engine sounds are a big deal to me. Gt5 engines were poorly done, especially when in exterior view. Unfortunately, I still hear the vacuum cleaner sound in Gt6.
The talk about how hard it is to do is BS. Arcade racers like NFS:MW and codemasters games sound better than gt5. I hope DP gets this right for the GT6 release. It just kills the immersion when your car sounds more like a jet plane than a car.
The talk about how hard it is to do is BS. Arcade racers like NFS:MW and codemasters games sound better than gt5. I hope DP gets this right for the GT6 release. It just kills the immersion when your car sounds more like a jet plane than a car.
- 8,723
GT6 isn't out yet, there's a chance PD will get their new sound generation system working on PS3 in-game before it releases, but you'd be better off expecting more of the same.
- 4,878
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
You can already hear better reverb and environmental processing in the GT6 demo. Especially on the bits where I drive past and toot my horn 
And the aerial shots on Silverstone
What I hate is when your at low revs and the samples are pitched low and sound really weak and watery... makes it feel like the car has no torque
There is even an audio delay between impacts and the sound being heard from distant camera shots
And the aerial shots on Silverstone
What I hate is when your at low revs and the samples are pitched low and sound really weak and watery... makes it feel like the car has no torque
There is even an audio delay between impacts and the sound being heard from distant camera shots
- 185
- Helsinki
- RattijuoppoFIN
It isn't hard to do. If you have the equipment and resources you simply record the sound of the car and then loop it. No editing tricory or "simulation".
- 8,723
You can already hear better reverb and environmental processing in the GT6 demo. Especially on the bits where I drive past and toot my horn
And the aerial shots on Silverstone
What I hate is when your at low revs and the samples are pitched low and sound really weak and watery... makes it feel like the car has no torque
There is even an audio delay between impacts and the sound being heard from distant camera shots
www.youtube.com/watch?v=apA7rZxWad4
The mixing has been tweaked, yes, the low-pass filtering is more obvious, although it's missing the reverb sparkle to accompany it, so it's not quite right. The reverb itself is a bit louder in more situations, but it doesn't scale correctly with distance (because of bandwidth limitations, you can't mix the engine sound twice, as you need to for this to happen.)
The transmission delay, as I call it, or "run-time effect" as relativistic physicists call it, has been in since GT5
. It's actually incredibly sophisticated, and they've handled certain issues with the system with remarkable elegance (notably the delay is different when you switch camera views, but they handle the buffers beautifully so there's no obvious change and absolutely no artefacting).The "new" sound guy (formerly of Bizarre Creations, i.e. they who made the PGR games) at T10 says it is hard, so...
He also said they're moving away from your fantasy of "just recording and making loops" (which is far from the truth anyway, also according to this same person). I wonder why that is.
Just more ignorance for the pile, I guess. I suppose because most people's exposure to this stuff starts and ends with the sample loops on their hard-drives, which of course are easily swapped / modified, that they think that's all there is to it They are of course completely ignoring / neglecting / unaware that the game actually has to do stuff with those samples in order to approximate the continuum of sounds you get from a car with something that is effectively only a patchwork.
- 185
- Helsinki
- RattijuoppoFIN
I assume that you have not played eg. Rfactor wich has most of the quality sounds made by mods that consists of simply 3 or 4 different samples of coast and power on. So that's 4 coasts and 4 power samples x 2 for exterior and interior. Then they are simply looped. And as the samples play the pitch is increased or decreased depending of the car is accelerating or decelerating.
Here is an example courtesy of Enduracers;
Not me driving.
Now saying that I leave in a fantasy is just stupid. Intelligent conversation is where the things or affairs argue rather than the opposite party's.
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There are numerous shortcomings in the approach. That people do well to circumvent that to an extent does not diminish the fact that such crude sampling is deprecated and will in short order no longer be the norm.
Do yourself, and me, a favour and watch the talk given by the T10 sound guy that was linked to earlier in the thread, then tell me how easy it is. Sampling is not a reflection of reality, or rather that's all it is - a series of mirrors positioned so that it gives the impression of looking right, but if you move just to the side slightly, it all falls apart. That you can't recognise this is lamentable, that I can't properly illustrate it is even more so.
If you're just recycling the tired old argument about GT5 having poor samples, then we know already, and you're missing the point completely by banging on that same old drum after it has been made clear that PD are doing something about it. Precisely what they're doing is obviously beyond you, and my attempts to illuminate the possibilities even only slightly are only met with the usual technophobia.
Do yourself, and me, a favour and watch the talk given by the T10 sound guy that was linked to earlier in the thread, then tell me how easy it is. Sampling is not a reflection of reality, or rather that's all it is - a series of mirrors positioned so that it gives the impression of looking right, but if you move just to the side slightly, it all falls apart. That you can't recognise this is lamentable, that I can't properly illustrate it is even more so.
If you're just recycling the tired old argument about GT5 having poor samples, then we know already, and you're missing the point completely by banging on that same old drum after it has been made clear that PD are doing something about it. Precisely what they're doing is obviously beyond you, and my attempts to illuminate the possibilities even only slightly are only met with the usual technophobia.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I'm sure it's not a piece of cake, but what would you expect the new sound guy to say? "Oh yeah mate, I can churn out 5 or 6 cars a day, it's relatively straightforward" Of course he's going to say it's hard, makes the fans appreciate it more and makes his boss happy too.
Point is, other games have far better sounds. Other games with far, far smaller budgets. I believe what's holding PD back is the 1200 cars. They could make the 200 new cars with premium sound quite easily I'm sure, but they won't, because it'll make all the other cars sound like crap and they won't have that. I think it's an all or nothing deal.
- 61
- LongDong1
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