Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!
- Thread starter steamcat
- 4,667 comments
- 353,005 views
King1982
(Banned)
- 832
- 90203
- King1982
It's been done many times before, so why not
Yes as they have failed miserably.
Really? You're being sarcastic right?
- 8,723
R5
(Banned)
- 7,527
- Location, Location
First point. Not by PD... Other developers.
And no I am not. Forza IS unrealistic in the sound department, just as bad as GT5; it sounds sexier- so less have a problem with it. Note: this thread is "Better" sounds, open to interpretation- sexier like Forza, or realistic, like... Real life, I guess.
Now, are we done here?
Edit: if not, drop a PM my way, save thread clutter.
- 362
- London
- MadHax
- M8DH8X
I hope we don't get into this discussion again FM4 vs. GT5...lol
I've played both on wheel, for physics and FFB GT5 win's in my opinion. As for sound, GT5 physics and FFB with FM4 sound and I don't think I would have bought a PC at all.
I switched to PC racing sim's because I wanted a more immersive experience in every department. Everyone should keep an eye out on Assetto Corsa, that to me looks like it will take the sim crown.
I've played both on wheel, for physics and FFB GT5 win's in my opinion. As for sound, GT5 physics and FFB with FM4 sound and I don't think I would have bought a PC at all.
I switched to PC racing sim's because I wanted a more immersive experience in every department. Everyone should keep an eye out on Assetto Corsa, that to me looks like it will take the sim crown.
- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
Nah, PGR4 had amazing sounds but only back then, nowadays it doesn't really hold up, I think Codemasters have the best sounds on console that you'll get this gen.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Wake us up when it actually happens, I agree Forza sound is hyperbole and obviously done from a dyno. Yet PD doesn't have much of a clue and they've been around 5-6 years longer than their major console competition, and still haven't
Forza 4 sounds incredible. The details caught in the recording process is anal. However, I would've rather they didn't apply their DSP filters on the stock notes. I understand why they did them but still, it would've been better if the DSP effects were limited only on upgraded vehicles.
The best way to do it would be the way they did it in FM2. Stock cars had pretty much unfiltered samples. The cars in this stage sounded a little muted, a little more realistic. It was only when you applied upgrades that the actual notes were swapped out to produce deeper,raspier effects.
For FM3 however, they chose to do away with that system and 'beefed' up the cars from the get go with no sample swaps even when you upgraded which was something I didn't like.
I would love to see a return to the FM2 system. That would be the best way really.
You know, it's not only the actual engine/exhaust notes in GT that are bad. It's the other effects as well such as, Dog box gear whine, BOV/Wastegate chatter, shifting effects, brake whine, engine/gearbox oscillation, reverb, doppler, cockpit resonance..etc
These effects also need an overhaul.
PC sims such as RaceRoom, PCars, iRacing..etc are leading the way in the sound department imo and it's these guys that PD and Turn 10 need to emulate..
The best way to do it would be the way they did it in FM2. Stock cars had pretty much unfiltered samples. The cars in this stage sounded a little muted, a little more realistic. It was only when you applied upgrades that the actual notes were swapped out to produce deeper,raspier effects.
For FM3 however, they chose to do away with that system and 'beefed' up the cars from the get go with no sample swaps even when you upgraded which was something I didn't like.
I would love to see a return to the FM2 system. That would be the best way really.
You know, it's not only the actual engine/exhaust notes in GT that are bad. It's the other effects as well such as, Dog box gear whine, BOV/Wastegate chatter, shifting effects, brake whine, engine/gearbox oscillation, reverb, doppler, cockpit resonance..etc
These effects also need an overhaul.
PC sims such as RaceRoom, PCars, iRacing..etc are leading the way in the sound department imo and it's these guys that PD and Turn 10 need to emulate..
- 1,762
- Germany
- xXGalmOneXx
- xXGalm OneXx
Forza Horizon does soundwise the best job currently on consoles. It sounds perfect. Every car sounds as it should without being overdone such as in FM4 on the regular stock cars.
Anyways I find it always funny how people like to bash FM4 sounds. They are still miles ahead of GT sounds. And if the FM sounds were the ones from GT they'd be praised to the sky.
GT has bad samples, and also the mixing is extremely bad, all the other sounds which make a car sound alive are missing. From shifting to intakes, doppler over the unique BOV sounds. Let's see if GT6 changes a little. But I guess there wont be anything brand new.
Anyways I find it always funny how people like to bash FM4 sounds. They are still miles ahead of GT sounds. And if the FM sounds were the ones from GT they'd be praised to the sky.
GT has bad samples, and also the mixing is extremely bad, all the other sounds which make a car sound alive are missing. From shifting to intakes, doppler over the unique BOV sounds. Let's see if GT6 changes a little. But I guess there wont be anything brand new.
- 202
- Kekistan
- The_Rotorhead
I disagree. FM4 and FM Horizon have terrible sample transition. It's not smooth, it kind of cuts when transitioning too fast, and sometimes one sample can clearly be heard playing over the other, when it should be seemless and unoticeable.
That's why I don't like Forza sounds. The samples for themselves are decent/good, but the way FM sound departement made them sound/work, is just plain bad.
- 2,913
- UK
- phil_75
These have it right http://vimeo.com/m/69691304
- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
Nah, Project CARS? not really, SMS are still using Shift's samples but with little tweaks here and there, the new shifting effects sound too forced and unnatural and their doppler effects in replays is pretty terrible but compared to GT, yes they're gods lol (sample and mixing wise only, GT still owns with its doppler effects)
I would say R3E and IRacing are the leading ones.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Who is bashing FM?
Also T10 didn't do the development for Horizon if you weren't aware. That is why the sounds are different. They are more akin to Dirt and PGR because the guys building the game came from those dev teams.
Also the defense for GT isn't here either, the regulars that talk here aren't fanatics for one game or the other. Rather they are open minded saying why both games need to work on their sounds. FM sounds are unrealistic to an open world environment, GT sounds are just too digital and not real the mixing is far off and even the Doppler effect is bad in replays. PD use to respect BOV sounds and turbo whine.
- 1,762
- Germany
- xXGalmOneXx
- xXGalm OneXx
It was meant it to be in common, not in this thread lately regarding the FM sounds. And I mentioned that other developeres made Horizon. I'm open to everything since I play all kind of racing games, from need for speed over forza to Grid to Gran Turismo, I experience all kind of car sounds. And so far GT does the worst job.
Yep they use Turbowhine and BOV sounds but every car has the same one. There is just one sound for it. No variations.
Yep they use Turbowhine and BOV sounds but every car has the same one. There is just one sound for it. No variations.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
GT5, listen to the idle up sound before it goes racing.
Last is test of real world cars, you can hear the idle up the low burble cam noise is far more prominent than the idle in game. Also listen to the car on passes and you'll see a difference as well.
- 301
- Washington
- Chippy569
- Chippy569
Granular-based audio systems sound great in dynamic states, but they break in a lot more situations than the loop-based system that GT and Forza and a few others use. For example, fire up AC, or R3E, or Dirt 3, or the recent NFS titles and try to hold a steady mid-range RPM. Try to bounce off a rev limiter. Try to go part-throttle. Try drifting. Suddenly a lot of the artifacts of the system start poking through. Now if you drive perfectly and only ever circuit race, you'll probably never get to these flaws. But when you have a game like GT or Forza where not everybody only circuit races, suddenly the likelihood of hitting those issues becomes much more likely.
At a less audible but more important level, it's a bit less practical to modulate a granular system's sound based on physics states, so things that you hear (especially regarding shifts and transmission sounds) might sound great because the audio is scripted to sound that way, but the sound isn't actually tied to anything physics is doing so it doesn't "feel" right when you drive. NFS gets around this by having the audio system drive the physics, but that comes with its own inherent set of input lag and other odd behaviors (compared to GT). Or, in short, it might sound great in replay or on youtube footage or when watching your friend play while you're sitting next to them, but once the wheel is in your hands it might not feel right.
Plus it's a lot more difficult to generate a breadth of audio content. You'll notice that most of the titles that use granular-based audio systems have sub-100 cars in their game and usually sub-40 unique-sounding cars. This is because a granular recording has to be produced in a very, very specific way - typically an on-track steady acceleration pull over a long period of time. Imagine finding a strip of track long enough and flat enough to take your race car from idle to redline in a 1:1 gear at full throttle, for example. On-track recording is very expensive (paying for the track time, the driver time, the equipment, and the car time), difficult to get right, and time consuming (whereas with GT and Forza and other loop-based games, a dyno shop can be rented out for a couple hundred dollars for a day and 3-4 cars' recordings can come out of that). If PD were to make a GT game with only a couple hundred cars, I'm willing to bet they would consider moving to a granular system. But it's definitely not feasible for a 1200+ car count game on-disc with only a couple years' development time.
I'm really looking forward to AC when it comes out, and they've no doubt got a great 4-12c GT3 recording.
Oh, and a recording using the microphone on a cell phone or whatever of sounds coming out of speakers is definitely not a good way to judge the audio quality of anything. Our brains are very good at filling in details that we don't necessarily hear. Listen to the straight gameplay footage instead, as it tells the whole story.(Lotus elise) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzy4FSF12HU
Also, if we're talking about PD's BOV sounds, I'm pretty sure they sound like a 1980's MIDI hi-hat open sample.
Last edited:
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Chippy, please don't tell me that Forza will still feature a 'perfect' shifting effect system..?
If there's one thing that both GT and Forza desperately needs, it's imperfect shifting effects. It just sounds so boring, so unnatural.
Forza has some amazing samples yet is let down by accompanying effects such as proper straight cut gear whine, brake whine, engine/gearbox oscillation, transmission shifting, exhaust sputter..etc
iRacing's engine/gearbox oscillation or 'gear wobble' is physics based. Forza and GT NEED to feature this!
Regarding BOV's, imo, NFS Pro Street has some of the best, most realistic sounding and behaving BOV's I've ever heard...
- 8,723
Chippy569, it was Crankcase Audio's granular system (and the explanation on their site) that clued me into how the method can be made to work. It's also a really impressive implementation, with the tool-based front-end as well. But I think, superficially, it should work with "traditional" static samples, too.
At least, it would be really cool if there were some way to combine the steady-state "fidelity" (at least near the sampled engine speed) of loops when things aren't changing and the dynamic accuracy of ramps when the rpm is changing. But I suppose the moment you're blending static samples, you're losing the fidelity and the main advantage of the granular system!
Still, there must be a non-wrong-sounding way to granularly play back static samples and the dynamic ramps at the same time, selecting the one over the other according to the rate of change. Obviously, any tiny timbral differences in the static (loops) and dynamic (ramps) samples will be audible, so that should be fun for the artists, and the technical challenge of handling the "windowing" and pitching of the grains is probably not insignificant, either.
In that sense, it does seem to me that a more physically-motivated system, from the ground up, with the appropriate tools built over the top of it, might be equally complex for a non-technical type, but infinitely more adjustable and usable, once tuned "right".
At least, it would be really cool if there were some way to combine the steady-state "fidelity" (at least near the sampled engine speed) of loops when things aren't changing and the dynamic accuracy of ramps when the rpm is changing. But I suppose the moment you're blending static samples, you're losing the fidelity and the main advantage of the granular system!
Still, there must be a non-wrong-sounding way to granularly play back static samples and the dynamic ramps at the same time, selecting the one over the other according to the rate of change. Obviously, any tiny timbral differences in the static (loops) and dynamic (ramps) samples will be audible, so that should be fun for the artists, and the technical challenge of handling the "windowing" and pitching of the grains is probably not insignificant, either.
In that sense, it does seem to me that a more physically-motivated system, from the ground up, with the appropriate tools built over the top of it, might be equally complex for a non-technical type, but infinitely more adjustable and usable, once tuned "right".
- 35,453
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
How come there's never a Direct capture video from the devs? Why always offscreen?
And just listening to that, its so close to the real thing but the reverb is abit off and there's no presence of Doppler (same issue iRacing has).
Lets not forget that those COTs are from 2010, when they still used caburators while the Gen 6 cars use Direct injection, which has made the sound more richer.
Also, I'm glad to see more people joining in on this discussion and not resorting solely to the "It sucks" argument.
Let me ask this.
Is PD capable of overhauling/rebuilding the audio that would incorporate everything that we have come to know and love from other games or are they better advised to source a western audio team to tackle this ongoing and frustrating problem of bad sound in GT games?
Is PD capable of overhauling/rebuilding the audio that would incorporate everything that we have come to know and love from other games or are they better advised to source a western audio team to tackle this ongoing and frustrating problem of bad sound in GT games?
Similar threads
