Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

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In that Goodwood thingy with the BMW Z4 video, they couldn't even get a basic V8 sound, it's like they've never heard what the cars they design actually sound like :/

Tbh I think it would be pretty easy just to get a V8 sound to put over the clip, and they failed. PD, you are idiots :P.
 
Yeah, you're right Racecar. If I have done that, I wouldn't like getting my face getting rubbed too, so I'll take your advice and enjoy the improved sounds if it happens. :)👍

Not sure who that person is, but I hope he learns this too.

I love Gran Turismo i got my first GT2 disc when i was 13, it was the talk around school all the young gear heads was giving tips and tunes :). Now that i'm older it's just nostalgia and i realize i will never have that feeling again.
 
If your talking about me rubbing pc sounds in everyone's face the game is 5 dollars on steam get it now. It was made when GT4 came out. And i bet even the lowest end pc can run it today, it might look like **** but it will run good.

Gran Turismo needs a whole new engine, i just don't think it can handle sound very well.

I think kaz and them boy's are trying there best for years but they just can't get authentic sounds out of this outdated engine it's obvious.

I wasn't reffering to you ( I've actually never seen you until today).

In that Goodwood thingy with the BMW Z4 video, they couldn't even get a basic V8 sound, it's like they've never heard what the cars they design actually sound like :/

Tbh I think it would be pretty easy just to get a V8 sound to put over the clip, and they failed. PD, you are idiots :P.

Blame the guy doing the promo video, not PD. No need for the insult.
 
I'm going to be honest, ive been playing Gran Turismo 2 alot lately, i'm 60% done and the sounds havent changed much if at all. If they gave us the tools i could mix my own sounds and be done with it. I'm starting to think GT engine can't handle the sound.

It all starts with source recordings. A number of GT's source recordings are recorded at partial throttle or in neutral, so as to not damage the car they've sourced. That's well and good, but the intakes aren't going to resonate correctly at part throttle, and the engine doesn't pump as much air leaving the exhaust kind of flat as well. This results in that weird mid-rangey, sort of tonal washy sound that GT seems to universally have. Combine that with very few loops that are spread far apart and thus have to be pitch shifted to the point where they sound stretchy and voila, the GT sound. It also would seem that they use very few parameters to drive the engine, for example maybe just RPM and throttle. My guess is that they're memory-limited, and can only fit so many audio files into RAM. They really need to move onto the next gen to see big advancements in their audio.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the "new sound system" they say they're researching is granular. GT can get the access to the cars they need. But they would only do this drastic of a change with a reduced car count, and it would be expensive and time-consuming to develop this from scratch. If it showed up in GT7 and the car count was 3-400ish, I wouldn't be surprised. They also, maybe, could be researching fully-synthesized, where there's no recordings at all, just wavetables that are dynamically generated. Think of that like a musical synth that happens to sound like car engines, and is infinitely tunable. My guess is that there will be good sounding car games within 10 years that use fully synthetic sounds. Full synth would be extraordinarily cheap to produce a vast array of content for (just need a good reference and one designer to make the appropriate synth patch), but would be a complicated system to develop and integrate and fit into CPU budgets. You could even write some code that does a lot of the authoring work based on physical properties of the engine; cyl count, displacement and stroke length, V angle, and firing order determine the base sound, and then intake length and diameter, header length and diameter, and exhaust length and diameter determine the intake and exhaust resonances respectively.

Back to the comment I quoted, I have no doubt that anyone with a video editor and 10 minutes of free time can take a gameplay capture and a youtube on-board video and overlay great sounding audio. "Sound Mods" for the old simbin GTR2 have been around for a while and people do just this. Making video is easy because it will always happen the exact same way. Game audio is exceptionally difficult because it can only be reactive to the player. You can't just play a youtube video when the car starts moving, because maybe I don't shift when the video shifts, and maybe I want to drift a corner which sounds completely different than if I properly apex and etc. That's where audio designers have found these complicated systems like granular or like loop-based, or hybrids, or synthesized. So no, I almost guarantee you could not just "mix your own sounds and be done with it" and end up with something you'd find enjoyable, despite what Tiff Needel would have you think.
 
It all starts with source recordings. A number of GT's source recordings are recorded at partial throttle or in neutral, so as to not damage the car they've sourced. That's well and good, but the intakes aren't going to resonate correctly at part throttle, and the engine doesn't pump as much air leaving the exhaust kind of flat as well. This results in that weird mid-rangey, sort of tonal washy sound that GT seems to universally have. Combine that with very few loops that are spread far apart and thus have to be pitch shifted to the point where they sound stretchy and voila, the GT sound. It also would seem that they use very few parameters to drive the engine, for example maybe just RPM and throttle. My guess is that they're memory-limited, and can only fit so many audio files into RAM. They really need to move onto the next gen to see big advancements in their audio.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the "new sound system" they say they're researching is granular. GT can get the access to the cars they need. But they would only do this drastic of a change with a reduced car count, and it would be expensive and time-consuming to develop this from scratch. If it showed up in GT7 and the car count was 3-400ish, I wouldn't be surprised. They also, maybe, could be researching fully-synthesized, where there's no recordings at all, just wavetables that are dynamically generated. Think of that like a musical synth that happens to sound like car engines, and is infinitely tunable. My guess is that there will be good sounding car games within 10 years that use fully synthetic sounds. Full synth would be extraordinarily cheap to produce a vast array of content for (just need a good reference and one designer to make the appropriate synth patch), but would be a complicated system to develop and integrate and fit into CPU budgets. You could even write some code that does a lot of the authoring work based on physical properties of the engine; cyl count, displacement and stroke length, V angle, and firing order determine the base sound, and then intake length and diameter, header length and diameter, and exhaust length and diameter determine the intake and exhaust resonances respectively.

Back to the comment I quoted, I have no doubt that anyone with a video editor and 10 minutes of free time can take a gameplay capture and a youtube on-board video and overlay great sounding audio. "Sound Mods" for the old simbin GTR2 have been around for a while and people do just this. Making video is easy because it will always happen the exact same way. Game audio is exceptionally difficult because it can only be reactive to the player. You can't just play a youtube video when the car starts moving, because maybe I don't shift when the video shifts, and maybe I want to drift a corner which sounds completely different than if I properly apex and etc. That's where audio designers have found these complicated systems like granular or like loop-based, or hybrids, or synthesized. So no, I almost guarantee you could not just "mix your own sounds and be done with it" and end up with something you'd find enjoyable, despite what Tiff Needel would have you think.

Obviously PD record the sound great, it sounds like it should, but when they run it through there game it sounds like soft sounds of nature, it sounds like i want to love you, it sounds as soft as cottonelle tissue. You see That's all fine and dandy, but theirs one problem. I want to hate you, i want the car to roar, I want the car to spit blood and **** it's pants if i rev it to hard, i want piss to come out my ears. and I don't think PD can make that happen with there current engine sound model.
 
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@Chippy, maybe they should hire you as the audio lead..?

I can accept that the new audio will probably be applied to at least the premiums but can't see that extending to every other PS2 era vehicle. The work load would be too great in the time frame they have.

Chippy, you didn't answer mate, are we going to have proper shifting effects for FM5?
 
@Chippy, maybe they should hire you as the audio lead..?

I can accept that the new audio will probably be applied to at least the premiums but can't see that extending to every other PS2 era vehicle. The work load would be too great in the time frame they have.

Chippy, you didn't answer mate, are we going to have proper shifting effects for FM5?

They've been working on them for years. The guy who is playing GT2 and commented that it sounds the same is partially right. They're the same overall format of samples, and sampling scheme (except the separation of engine and exhaust sounds starting with GT5:P), albeit higher quality / bitrate in GT5. The samples are the same from car to car (in GT5 vs. GT2), more or less, but the sound engine is totally different.

What that means is that the samples we're hearing are nothing like what PD have been doing recently with sounds. The issue is not, I suspect, getting the sounds made / mixed etc., it's getting them running on PS3 - they are doing it in a completely new way, remember. They've also recorded every car "properly" since before GT4, including some on-track stuff.


Just imagine that "hypothetical" physically-modeled engine sound synth Chippy569 described, though, and what it means for fine-tuning and the responsiveness and potential for uniqueness in engine sounds in a game (genre) that is all about "owning" cars. It's nice to see someone else writing the things I've been writing for years. :)

Interestingly, LFS already does this, to an extent, it's just the base synthesis is not physically informed at all, and the presets (engine conf. etc.) are limited, plus there's no separate intake sound (a lot of mods incorporate the intake into the exhaust somehow - it's quite an art, actually, and entirely abstract).
What's encouraging is that, in LFS's case, the base synth being physically accurate requires no more computing power at run time, just lots more to generate it offline. Of course, changing that base synth means the processing that follows probably breaks, but that's soon sorted, too (in code, not by us).
 
As PD are supposedly doing the sounds in a new way,I think it would be a good idea to give us a sound sample from an old V8 Muscle car for example just to give us an idea.
 
Oh, I got one.

Give us a better world for the future of our children, PLEASE!

It's not like some of the people within PD's sound department aren't trying to do what they can to improve what they're sole job is to do. Doesn't make any sense that they're just waiting to make it all better.
 
I thought they were already using a variation of Hoovers and Dysons. I think they're using toasters now!

Toasters? What toasters? *DING* Ooooh that's my toaster which has my toast in it. Seriously though a sound of a toaster is not even possible dude. Haha, come on don't get any ideas to make that a joke now, or else the Forza and other non GT fanboys may attempt using that too and embarrass themselves. :lol:
 
Toasters? What toasters? *DING* Ooooh that's my toaster which has my toast in it. Seriously though a sound of a toaster is not even possible dude. Haha, come on don't get any ideas to make that a joke now, or else the Forza and other non GT fanboys may attempt using that too and embarrass themselves. :lol:

I meant that cooking sound low quiet growl
 
I would love to see a video where a picture of a vacuum cleaner is superimposed on a car in a GT5 replay. Now that would be funny!

Seriously though, I think now more than ever before, PD know what needs to be done. I'm sure they are working on something and hopefully this aspect will take precedence over 'trivial' matters such as better modeling of stitches on steering wheels or something.
I'm not expecting a breakthrough for GT6, but GT7 HAS to be where the revolution begins..
 
billyhas
I would love to see a video where a picture of a vacuum cleaner is superimposed on a car in a GT5 replay. Now that would be funny!
.

I would LOVE to see that! :-D

Just for a laugh, one of you talented guys could do it, couldn't you?
 
not to move away from engine/exhaust sounds too much (because they def need help) but am i the only one that simply cant stand the constant SCREECH from the tires in GT games??...

I know, I know tires make plenty of noise, especially when pushed to (and beyond) their limits of grip...but I just don't see why its required that the tires need to overpower every other sound coming from the car...

I get it when you have completely lost grip...but even under normal braking do they really need to screech like they do?
 
not to move away from engine/exhaust sounds too much (because they def need help) but am i the only one that simply cant stand the constant SCREECH from the tires in GT games??...

I know, I know tires make plenty of noise, especially when pushed to (and beyond) their limits of grip...but I just don't see why its required that the tires need to overpower every other sound coming from the car...

I get it when you have completely lost grip...but even under normal braking do they really need to screech like they do?

I actually like that feedback from the tires but I can see how it would be annoying for a lot of people, it is pretty loud. Simple solution should be allowing us to program our own personal preferences into sound levels. Other, far less developed games (NetKar for example)allow you set wind noise, tire noise, engine noise etc. all separately, no reason it can't be done in any GT game.
 
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