GLI is garbage... trading it in about 3 weeks...

[CodeRedR51]

I answered once or twice lol. I just dont make it on gtp that much anymore.

I'm just surprised how cool you are with it. If this was my thread, considering all wasted space in it with people bickering, I would be pissed. I reported it twice to have a mod clean it up, but apparently nobody wants to do anything about it.

I actually never thought of this. I still would prefer a loaded 05-09 gt. I can get one with under 20k miles for under $20k.

Honestly, I would rather have a 2011 V6 than a 05-09 GT.

 

[ozyran]

Difficult, while they did make manual versions most are 2WD fleet trucks, they are few and far between. There are a few manual 4WD ones out there but they will be pretty hard to find. I don't think they make the newest generation of either truck with a manual in 150/1500 trim, so you are looking at something pre-2007.

I'd look for company fleet sales, you will have better luck finding something like you are looking for and it'll be dirt cheap.

Your other option is to look at Ford Rangers, I know they came with a manual and 4WD. Same goes for S-10's (avoid the Colorado) and I believe the Dakota.

The Dakota would be a good choice, IMHO. Just make sure you go for one of the newer models. The '97 - '04 models aren't bad, but not all that great, either. There's a reason I gave up on the '99 Dakota 5.9 R/T I owned.

That said, I test drove a 2008 Dakota 2WD with the 3.7L and the 6-speed manual, that thing had some power. I imagine the 4.7L would be even better, since it cranks out 302 hp and 320 lb-ft of torque. The 2008-2011 models really do seem more refined than the '97 - '04 models.

 

[CodeRedR51]

On the other hand my Dad had a '01 Dakota V6 and it was a piece of crap. Just FYI.

 

[socomplayer2]

Off topic really quick; just for fun on my dealership adventures today I had a lapse of self control and test drove an 05 sti just for fun... Lets just say the salesmen threw me the keys and told me a good route for "opening her up", while he appraised my gli.

I'm just surprised how cool you are with it. If this was my thread, considering all wasted space in it with people bickering, I would be pissed. I reported it twice to have a mod clean it up, but apparently nobody wants to do anything about it.



Honestly, I would rather have a 2011 V6 than a 05-09 GT.

Its just an internet forum, I use it for opinions and information. All the bickering ive noticed in here if anything just draws more people in so it doesnt bother me lol. I have nothing agaisnt the v6 mustang but I would rather have the intoxicating gurgle of the 4.6 and it wont have the stigma of owning a v6 stang no matter how awesome it may be.

The Dakota would be a good choice, IMHO. Just make sure you go for one of the newer models. The '97 - '04 models aren't bad, but not all that great, either. There's a reason I gave up on the '99 Dakota 5.9 R/T I owned.

That said, I test drove a 2008 Dakota 2WD with the 3.7L and the 6-speed manual, that thing had some power. I imagine the 4.7L would be even better, since it cranks out 302 hp and 320 lb-ft of torque. The 2008-2011 models really do seem more refined than the '97 - '04 models.

Good to know I quickly glanced at them online but it seems even the base model is over 20k which is my limit. But I will look into them a little more.

I would second a Ranger. You can get one with the 4.0L V6 + 4x4. They are nice and inexpensive.

Stick as well?

Difficult, while they did make manual versions most are 2WD fleet trucks, they are few and far between. There are a few manual 4WD ones out there but they will be pretty hard to find. I don't think they make the newest generation of either truck with a manual in 150/1500 trim, so you are looking at something pre-2007.

I'd look for company fleet sales, you will have better luck finding something like you are looking for and it'll be dirt cheap.

Your other option is to look at Ford Rangers, I know they came with a manual and 4WD. Same goes for S-10's (avoid the Colorado) and I believe the Dakota.

I have been looking at the colorado, dakota and ranger online and trying to price out a base model manual with maybe an option here or their and I actually liked the colorado the most. Granted I have never driven any of them so I cannot comment on that aspect. I figure If I get a dinky pickup might as well go new. However with the mustang and s2000 I am willing to go pre owned for much more of a car.

 

[JCE]

I know the 3.0L has a 5spd but I do not know 100% about the 4.0L. I will research. What's you zipcode btw?

*edit*
Yes, the 4.0L can be had in a 5spd manual.

Tree'd, I didn't refresh!

 

[Joey D]

Yup the 4.0L Ranger could be had with a manual trans and 4WD.

 

[fitftw]

2012 base Nissan Versa. 26/34 mpg under $10,000

The cheapest new car on the market. Comes with warranty and 5MT 1.6L http://cars.findthebest.com/compare/36-158/2011-Chevrolet-Aveo-vs-2011-Nissan-Versa

 

[CodeRedR51]

2012 base Nissan Versa. 26/34 mpg under $11,000

The cheapest new car on the market. Comes with warranty and 5MT 1.6L http://cars.findthebest.com/compare/36-158/2011-Chevrolet-Aveo-vs-2011-Nissan-Versa

Fixed. 👍

 

[Joey D]

The OP wants a fun car to drive. I can honestly say that the 1.8L Versa is fairly horrid to drive so I have to imagine a 1.6L with nothing on it has to be even worse. If you are going to spend that little on a car you might as well pick something up that's a year or two old that is much better.

 

[ozyran]

Good to know I quickly glanced at them online but it seems even the base model is over 20k which is my limit. But I will look into them a little more.

2008 Dakota, 6-speed, 2WD, 31,480 miles for a hair under $12K:
Autotrader: 2008 Dodge Dakota

2008 Dakota SXT, 2WD, 3.7L V6, 19,541, $17,600:
Autotrader: 2008 Dodge Dakota SXT

Not the V8 and not 4wd, but not bad choices either way, IMHO.

As for Ford Rangers, here's a pretty sharp Ranger. It's a 2006 model, but it has the 5-speed, it's 4wd, extended cab, and only has 17,521 miles for $18,900:
Autotrader: 2006 Ford Ranger 4x4

Last suggestion, a 2009 Ford Ranger Sport 4x4, 25,820 miles, V6 and 5-speed, for $17,998:
Autotrader: 2009 Ford Ranger Sport 4x4

(The 2009 Ranger would be my choice, IMHO)

Just a few quick picks. The Ranger's a good choice as trucks go, they've been around forever, parts are cheap and easy to find, they're reliable, and should not cost a whole lot to insure.

 

[fitftw]

Honda Fit

Scion tC

Civic Si you can definitely haggle with a salesman to get one for $20,000 depending on how much you can put down.

Or any other 2012 Civic.

 

[Tornado]

The OP wants a fun car to drive. I can honestly say that the 1.8L Versa is fairly horrid to drive so I have to imagine a 1.6L with nothing on it has to be even worse. If you are going to spend that little on a car you might as well pick something up that's a year or two old that is much better.

Or spend like 2k more and get a drastically better Hyundai.

 

[fitftw]

true the Accent is a tiny bit better. Here's a comparo with a Versa. http://www.cars.com/go/compare/trimCompare.jsp?acodes=USC10HYC011A0,USC10NIC101A0

Accent is 49lbs lighter, 2.5" lower roofline, 16.3" shorter, 3hp more but 5tq less, .8 seconds quicker to 60...

Yeah go for the Accent. But it IS about $5,000 more than Versa, not $2,000 like the previous poster says. So in my opinion I'd still go with the Versa. Plus there's bound to be more aftermarket for a Versa.

 

[Tornado]

Yeah go for the Accent. But it IS about $5,000 more than Versa, not $2,000 like the previous poster says.

My apologies. I meant the Kia Rio. It doesn't even really matter, because it was an off-hand comment. The Nissan Versa meets none out of none criteria that socomplayer wants in his car (nor does the Kia Rio/Hyundai Accent), particularly considering he is going from an upper level Volkswagen Golf trim to something else. You do realize that the base Versa is so poorly equipped that it doesn't even come with a radio, correct?

 

[fitftw]

^ most people upgrade the radio anyway. Well, anyone under like 35.

More importantly is the fact that...who cares? It's a Versa. It's a brand new car (0 miles, 0 switches lol) with a warranty that you can honestly purchase for less than $10,000 cash. That alone is amazing. If I had the fortitude to save money for what, 6 months, I could afford it. In fact someday I might. Would make a wonderful DD.

Or an Aveo, which I'd rather have over a Kia Rio.

 

[Tornado]

^ most people upgrade the radio anyway. Well, anyone under like 35.

That's not the point...

More importantly is the fact that...who cares? It's a Versa. It's a brand new car (0 miles, 0 switches lol) with a warranty that you can honestly purchase for less than $10,000 cash. That alone is amazing. If I had the fortitude to save money for what, 6 months, I could afford it. In fact someday I might. Would make a wonderful DD.

Or an Aveo, which I'd rather have over a Kia Rio.

That's great (except Versa's are kind of crap so you would be better off saving for another two months and buying literally any of the dozens of cars that can be had in the 12-14k range), but what relevance does it hold for the person who is looking at Mustang V6s and cars of that ilk?

 

[CodeRedR51]

^ most people upgrade the radio anyway. Well, anyone under like 35.

More importantly is the fact that...who cares? It's a Versa. It's a brand new car (0 miles, 0 switches lol) with a warranty that you can honestly purchase for less than $10,000 cash. That alone is amazing. If I had the fortitude to save money for what, 6 months, I could afford it. In fact someday I might. Would make a wonderful DD.

Or an Aveo, which I'd rather have over a Kia Rio.

MSRP on a 2012 Versa is $10,990. 👍

 

[fitftw]

MSRP on a 2012 Versa is $10,990. 👍

You do realize that nobody pays that, right? Well, nobody smart anyway. It's called haggling, lowballing, or having a lot of cash, and not having to pay monthly. If I have $10,000 cash in my pocket, I guarantee you I could bring home a Versa for $9,000 all inclusive. If one dealer is too chicken to "lose" money, another dealer won't be. Dealers, more often than not, would much rather have most of the money for their products in cold, hard cash. The more payments you have to make, the less money you'll knock off the price.

Which is why I'll never buy a car that I can't put at least HALF down in cash. It might help to know that I am Jewish, and thus I am kind of frugal and intelligent with what I purchase.

 

[JCE]

You do realize that nobody pays that, right? Well, nobody smart anyway. It's called haggling, lowballing, or having a lot of cash, and not having to pay monthly. If I have $10,000 cash in my pocket, I guarantee you I could bring home a Versa for $9,000 all inclusive. If one dealer is too chicken to "lose" money, another dealer won't be. Dealers, more often than not, would much rather have most of the money for their products in cold, hard cash. The more payments you have to make, the less money you'll knock off the price.

Which is why I'll never buy a car that I can't put at least HALF down in cash. It might help to know that I am Jewish, and thus I am kind of frugal and intelligent with what I purchase.

Your arguement may be all fine any dandy to you and all but you are losing sight of the fact that he isn't interested in another FWD car.

My only issue with getting a new V6 is price and availability of stripper models. The dealer loves to stock loaded models and not sparcely equipped deluxe trim. Finding one in the lower $20k range is going to be a difficult task. I would rather pick up a gently used pre-owned vehicle and get more kit and avoid the initial hit on depreciation.

 

[Shant J.]

If you didn't want something with a warranty, I'd suggest a 1988 Fiero GT. But hey, what do I know?

 

[CodeRedR51]

You do realize that nobody pays that, right? Well, nobody smart anyway. It's called haggling, lowballing, or having a lot of cash, and not having to pay monthly. If I have $10,000 cash in my pocket, I guarantee you I could bring home a Versa for $9,000 all inclusive. If one dealer is too chicken to "lose" money, another dealer won't be. Dealers, more often than not, would much rather have most of the money for their products in cold, hard cash. The more payments you have to make, the less money you'll knock off the price.

Which is why I'll never buy a car that I can't put at least HALF down in cash. It might help to know that I am Jewish, and thus I am kind of frugal and intelligent with what I purchase.

But that's not guaranteed with all dealers. And when arguing the price of a car, it's best to us MSRP, which on the Versa WAS less than $10k last year, but now it is not. (however it does come with more standard features)

 

[Joey D]

You do realize that nobody pays that, right? Well, nobody smart anyway. It's called haggling, lowballing, or having a lot of cash, and not having to pay monthly. If I have $10,000 cash in my pocket, I guarantee you I could bring home a Versa for $9,000 all inclusive. If one dealer is too chicken to "lose" money, another dealer won't be. Dealers, more often than not, would much rather have most of the money for their products in cold, hard cash. The more payments you have to make, the less money you'll knock off the price.

Which is why I'll never buy a car that I can't put at least HALF down in cash. It might help to know that I am Jewish, and thus I am kind of frugal and intelligent with what I purchase.

Dealers want you to finance through the auto companies finance arm, it makes the auto maker more money in the long run, at least with new cars. They often offer you a decent discount when you finance with their credit company too. I got them to instantly knock off $500 for financing with Ford Credit, whereas there was no discount with cash or if I used another bank.

Dealership are getting away from the whole haggling thing when it comes to new cars, however you can typically negotiate employee, friends, family or supplier pricing. I was able to get the X-Plan on my Focus saving me $1,500 off the top of the car. In the end I ended up negotiating $2,000 off a brand new model that was high in demand.

If you are buying a used car though, by all means haggle all you can and pay with cash if you have it. You will save money pretty easily that way, most dealers put a huge mark up on used cars knowing people will lowball them. But if they do get sticker on it the dealer makes money either way. Like my old Cooper is on the dealer's lot for $14,995 but I bet it will sell for about $12,500.

And you do know the whole Jewish people haggling stereotype is incredibly offensive right?

 

[McLaren]

You do realize that nobody pays that, right? Well, nobody smart anyway. It's called haggling, lowballing, or having a lot of cash, and not having to pay monthly. If I have $10,000 cash in my pocket, I guarantee you I could bring home a Versa for $9,000 all inclusive. If one dealer is too chicken to "lose" money, another dealer won't be. Dealers, more often than not, would much rather have most of the money for their products in cold, hard cash. The more payments you have to make, the less money you'll knock off the price.

This used to be somewhat true years ago. However, Joey nailed it down below.

Which is why I'll never buy a car that I can't put at least HALF down in cash. It might help to know that I am Jewish, and thus I am kind of frugal and intelligent with what I purchase.

Not sure why your religion should have any sort of bearing on how intelligent you are with money, unless you just want some Jewish-jokes to start.

Dealers want you to finance through the auto companies finance arm, it makes the auto maker more money in the long run, at least with new cars. They often offer you a decent discount when you finance with their credit company too. I got them to instantly knock off $500 for financing with Ford Credit, whereas there was no discount with cash or if I used another bank.

Nailed it, nailed it, nailed it. The only companies make big bucks off cold hard cash are the used exotic dealers.

 

[JCE]

I would like to point out that all dealers want cash--new or used it doesn't matter. That's instant capital for them to spend with. Cash turns around quickly, and dealerships do like that. Let me explain in an analogy that might make more sense.

If I sold something on eBay to a local buyer and they preferred to meet me in person to give me cash so they can "save the shipping" and thus also avoiding using Paypal I would (and did do) it. This saves me the seller Paypal fees, time it takes for the money to go through Paypal to my bank account (that is literally 4-5 business days for the funds to clear!) and almost more importantly packing materials and time spent standing in line at the post office (yuck!). Cash talks in business.

There is always "the next customer" for the dealerships to get their financing on and plenty of ways to get more vehicles to sell. After 15 years my step dad (Sales Manager at a Ford dealer) prefers people coming in to pay cash. He sells those vehicles at or $500 or more below invoice to get them out quickly so he can move on to the next customer. When I sold cars I wanted cash customers too, especially ones that already knew what they wanted on my lot. Why? Car salesman (and thus Sales Managers) get volume bonuses which is where the REAL commission is. Selling new cars by themselves doesn't make you a bit of money unless you hit a volume bonus. (10 cars, 15 cars, 20 cars, etc). 90% of all new car transactions net the car salesman what is called "a mini" which in most dealers is $50 to $150. That is nothing when you consider the time it takes to sell that car. 15 years ago before the interweb was everywhere and customers were better informed the average car deal was over $500 a piece at my dad's dealership. It wasn't unheard of to make $750 to $1,000 each on every 5 cars or so. The quickest average car sale can be at least a couple of hours, so imagine spending 3 hours with someone from start to finish and then making a measly $50 or $100--and that isn't even considering if you have to split the deal with another salesman! And today in order for you the car salesman to make any money off of a single new car deal they have to pay over a certain amount of invoice or in some dealers MSRP. With today's knowledge and interweb information paying more than MSRP for a normal car is almost unheard of. This is another prime reason why the pre-owned market is flowing the way it is. ALL the money is being made here on both the trade-in allowance and the sale of the pre-owned vehicle. Followed by the Service department. New car sales are DEAD LAST on the dealer's list of money makers. Even add-ons and anything you buy in F&I (finance and insurance) nets more profit. You want those cool wheels or that upgraded radio? Want to add a spoiler? Really want "Clear coat sealer"? You get hosed here while the dealership swims in the money it made from you. New cars are the new "cash cars" whereas it used to be pre-owned.

All of this is PRECISELY why you and I need to buy pre-owned. You have more room to wiggle on price, you have a ton of vehicles to choose from and even more important you do not lose the initial depreciation the SECOND you literally drive off the dealer's driveway. Buy that $23k Mustang V6 and after driving away you just lost $3,000.

*edit*
I also want to point out that dealerships also get bonuses if they sell a certain amount of new cars.

------------------------------

Excuse the long winded reply, but I needed to point all this out there for those who are uneducated in the inner workings of car dealers. And I am not trying to insult anyone, I am trying to inform. It is a nasty business with a bunch of misconceptions.

 

[McLaren]

It appears to me that it's not the dealers who want cash then, it's the salesmen so they can make a better cut off it. That's different from the dealership wanting financing instead of cash.

The dealer/auto maker is going to make money off the interest & kick backs/loans. The saleman isn't going to get any of this, he's done his job just getting the car into someone's hands.

The reason people assume dealer's still prefer money is because of how difficult financing could have been back in the 90's. Now-a-days, financing is much simpler & dealers know most suckers won't care what they're tacking on to the fees as long as the customer's preferred monthly payments are where they want. Some dealers are different & maybe your dealer was one of them, but the majority want financing. They make more money off the car in the long term than they do all up front.

 

[JCE]

It appears to me that it's not the dealers who want cash then, it's the salesmen so they can make a better cut off it. That's different from the dealership wanting financing instead of cash.

The dealer/auto maker is going to make money off the interest & kick backs/loans. The saleman isn't going to get any of this, he's done his job just getting the car into someone's hands.

The reason people assume dealer's still prefer money is because of how difficult financing could have been back in the 90's. Now-a-days, financing is much simpler & dealers know most suckers won't care what they're tacking on to the fees as long as the customer's preferred monthly payments are where they want. Some dealers are different & maybe your dealer was one of them, but the majority want financing. They make more money off the car in the long term than they do all up front.

The dealers want cash because it is quick capital that they can turn around. I pointed out why all parties involved at the dealer level do like cash. Do they prefer it? No. Do they like it? Yes. The longer inventory sits on dealer lots they do not get paid. Someone comes in and pays cash for a car that car is now off the lot and no longer holding up the capital used to purchase it. The dealer can turn that cash right around and purchase something that will sell quicker. Cash is a revolving door to the lobby where as financing is like taking the elevator from the parking garage. They both end up in the lobby, it was just easier to use the revolving door. 👍

 

[McLaren]

The dealers want cash because it is quick capital that they can turn around. I pointed out why all parties involved at the dealer level do like cash. Do they prefer it? No. Do they like it? Yes. The longer inventory sits on dealer lots they do not get paid. Someone comes in and pays cash for a car that car is now off the lot and no longer holding up the capital used to purchase it. The dealer can turn that cash right around and purchase something that will sell quicker. Cash is a revolving door to the lobby where as financing is like taking the elevator from the parking garage. They both end up in the lobby, it was just easier to use the revolving door. 👍

Of course, they want cash & like it; they're getting paid for it all up front. But even if a car sits on a lot for a longer amount of time than preferred, the dealer can more than likely still make more money financing it than they can accepting straight cash for it. They will obviously accept either payment.

This whole thing started with fit's misconception that paying cash will incite the dealer to cut you a break. They won't because there's no real reason for them to do so. If you have $10K to spend on a $10K car, they want that $10K. They already make more money off financing, so why would they cut you a $1,000 deal on the less profitable option unless they really wanted a car off the lot....

 

[fitftw]

so why would they cut you a $1,000 deal on the less profitable option unless they really wanted a car off the lot....

you answered your own question. The entire point of a dealership is to move cars off the lot. Nothing else. Why the HELL would they want cars sitting on the lot? They don't get paid for cars taking up space. That's the bottom line. They don't know I have $10,000 cash. I walk in and say "I have $8,000 cash for a brand new Versa" and they tell me to GTFO. Then I say "oh wait, $9,000" and if they still say GTFO, I walk away and go to a different dealer but chances are HIGH that they will accept one of those offers. Very high. I'm willing to bet they would take the first offer of $8,000. You really believe they want to wait 5 or 6 years to see $8,000 from some broke-ass who can only put down $1,000 when they can get an entire $8,000 in the span of 3 seconds? You're crazy.

 

[fitftw]

double post please delete

 

[12thgear]

you answered your own question. The entire point of a dealership is to move cars off the lot. Nothing else. Why the HELL would they want cars sitting on the lot? They don't get paid for cars taking up space. That's the bottom line. They don't know I have $10,000 cash. I walk in and say "I have $8,000 cash for a brand new Versa" and they tell me to GTFO. Then I say "oh wait, $9,000" and if they still say GTFO, I walk away and go to a different dealer but chances are HIGH that they will accept one of those offers. Very high. I'm willing to bet they would take the first offer of $8,000. You really believe they want to wait 5 or 6 years to see $8,000 from some broke-ass who can only put down $1,000 when they can get an entire $8,000 in the span of 3 seconds? You're crazy.

Dealers like money. They like moving cars. They like profit. But they'd greatly prefer to use all the vectors they have at their disposable for taking your money. Can they charge you a higher purchase price? Can they hose you on your trade-in? Can they get you to pay for various add-ons and charges (market "adjustments", "value" packages, dealer installed accessories, warranties, etc)? Can they make interest off of you if you finance through them (they don't assume all the risk—it's through the manufacturer's financing arm)? It's all a shell game, and they're willing to cut a little from one section as long as they can throw it back onto another. If they can get a little from you everywhere, it all adds up to a tidy profit.

That said, if inventory isn't constrained, a sale is a sale. If you've done your homework and can haggle, you can pay cash and pay a low price for your car. Especially when the dealer realizes they're wasting valuable time playing games. Make their meager profit and try again with the next customer.