GLI is garbage... trading it in about 3 weeks...

you answered your own question. The entire point of a dealership is to move cars off the lot.
Not at prices where they make no money. A car has to sit on a lot for a long time for the dealer to finally cut a big discount.
Nothing else. That's the bottom line.
It's not as simple as you believe.
They don't know I have $10,000 cash. I walk in and say "I have $8,000 cash for a brand new Versa" and they tell me to GTFO. Then I say "oh wait, $9,000" and if they still say GTFO, I walk away and go to a different dealer but chances are HIGH that they will accept one of those offers. And there you have it. I might have put all my eggs in one basket but over the next 5 or 6 years someone will end up paying interest totalling $2,000 or more, I will have avoided that.
It's cute that you think that's how it will really work, when it doesn't for a brand new car, which is again, where this discussion started with a new Nissan. You can go to multiple dealers & try that, but it normally doesn't work that way. That's why they ask you normally, "Cash or finance". If you say cash, but tell them you only have 3/4 of it, they don't want you paying cash, they want you to finance & pay the rest. Hence, why I said to say finance first, then change your mind as you might figure out what the dealer is willing to work with to close the deal.

If I told Classic, I would give them $45,000 cash for a $50,000 car, they would not sell it unless the car had been there forever. They'd take my $45k, & then figure a deal out for me to pay the rest. That's where haggling comes in. Dealers aren't stupid. They won't bend over backwards for you so you can say, "LOL, I saved $5K!" just because you think you can walk into 1 of 3 dealers thinking you'll get what you want.

Used is a completely different story with too many factors to give a definite answer except that a dealer will still always prefer 9/10 times to finance you the car.
 
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You just have to stand your ground, be firm, and walk away asap if they try to talk you into spending more money. I'd start with some low offer, knowing they'll say no, ask them what their counter-offer is, then I'd take a deep sigh and offer what I intended to offer (making it seem like they're breaking me down mentally even though I am totally ok with my offer) and if they say no to that, simply walk away. They will call you back or run outside to catch you and talk to you. People aren't breaking down doors to buy new cars.

Financing a car is just something I'm not okay with. 9/10 times it's rape. You pay with cash, you avoid hidden BS charges and other garbage. Pay once and be done with it or enjoy a $300 a month car payment on top of $100 insurance a month on top of your rent, your cell phone, your electric, your cable, etc. I don't know about you, but I have ENOUGH bills. I hate seeing half my paycheck go to waste for necessities. Car payments are not a necessity, therefore why would you willingly take on another bill?
 
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You just have to stand your ground, be firm, and walk away asap if they try to talk you into spending more money.
There is a difference between trying to buy a $10,000 car & then being told that they'd like you to pay $4,000 more for extra crap, than just going into a dealer and only offering a portion of the car's purchase price.

It does not work that way with the new market. The cars are set at particular MSRPs for a reason.
I'd start with some low offer, knowing they'll say no, ask them what their counter-offer is, then I'd take a deep sigh and offer what I intended to offer (making it seem like they're breaking me down mentally even though I am totally ok with my offer) and if they say no to that, simply walk away. They will call you back or run outside to catch you and talk to you. People aren't breaking down doors to buy new cars.
Have you ever bought a new car before? It may work like that with used cars where you can always bring up various things like condition, mileage, service records to haggle with, but new cars are a bit of a different game.

I can not go into Classic saying, I will give them $45K for a $50K car. They will just say no and at the bare minimum want $49K b/c they'll make that last grand back.
Financing a car is just something I'm not okay with. 9/10 times it's rape. You pay with cash, you avoid hidden BS charges and other garbage.
No 🤬. That's why they prefer financing to begin with. They make more money off those "BS charges & other garbage".

The problem is, cars cost a lot of money (unless you live in the $10K & under market), money a lot of people don't have on hand. Now, you could say they shouldn't be buying those $20K+ cars to begin with, but if everyone thought like that, said cars wouldn't be worth building to begin with if nobody has the money to afford them. That's why dealers offer financing, & why there's interest. You can't technically afford that car, but if they give it to you for a monthly payment that you can afford, a lot of people will accept it. That's why there's interest & that's where the dealer makes money; they're going to let you have that car anyway, even though you haven't paid for it, completely.

If this kind of deal wasn't around, $50,000+ cars would be as rare as Ferraris & Lamborghinis b/c most people just don't have that much money on hand to spend.
Pay once and be done with it or enjoy a $300 a month car payment on top of $100 insurance a month on top of your rent, your cell phone, your electric, your cable, etc. I don't know about you, but I have ENOUGH bills.
That's because you can't afford the financing to begin with. If you're someone who prefers to pay everything up front, you're either
A: In the used market of cheap cars or
B: Making enough money where the purchase doesn't affect you in the slightest.

For everyone else, myself included, a large portion of the new car market exists over $20,000. And if my guess if right (& I'm positive it is), the majority of Americans (or probably most people in general), don't have $20,000+ just lying around to be dropped on a car. That's why with financing, you just make a monthly payment depending on how your credit determines the cost.

Seriously, if financing bothers you this much on a car, then I'm assuming you're nowhere in the market for a home to call your very own.
I hate seeing half my paycheck go to waste for necessities. Car payments are not a necessity, therefore why would you willingly take on another bill?
Because like many Americans, we can afford to take on the monthly bills. Or you can't afford it, but whoever is doing the financing gives it to you anyway....
 
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Financing a car is just something I'm not okay with. 9/10 times it's rape. You pay with cash, you avoid hidden BS charges and other garbage. Pay once and be done with it or enjoy a $300 a month car payment on top of $100 insurance a month on top of your rent, your cell phone, your electric, your cable, etc. I don't know about you, but I have ENOUGH bills. I hate seeing half my paycheck go to waste for necessities. Car payments are not a necessity, therefore why would you willingly take on another bill?

Well presumably because not everyone has £15,000 sitting around in a lump waiting to be spent. I say 15, that will barely net you a Focus these days. Similarly, not everyone is in a position to wait (however long, salary dependant) to accumulate that much money for whatever reason. Say for example your current car decides it's time to, I dunno, blow a head gasket. Or you discover its gearbox is on the way out (this is sounding very much like a Joey D centric example now...). If you're relying on a car to get you to work, you're not really going to have a lot of choice in the matter.

Additionally (and I don't know what the situation is like in the US, but still), manufacturer based finance offers really aren't all that bad. Going back to the Focus, Ford currently have one on at 4.9% APR with a money-off incentive that if I understand it correctly manages to come out at charging a few hundred less than the RRP. A couple of years ago it was an even better situation, of course - when my mother dearest (who did have £15,000 sitting in the bank as it happened) decided she wanted a C4, Citroen were doing a 0% finance offer at the time. Why wouldn't you do that? You're essentially borrowing Citroen's money at 0% to have it in your bank account earning you interest. And she had someone haggle for her so she was already paying a grand and a bit less than the list price, so it's not like she lost money there either. Lost it in depreciation of course, but that's new car buying for you...
 
Additionally (and I don't know what the situation is like in the US, but still), manufacturer based finance offers really aren't all that bad. Going back to the Focus, Ford currently have one on at 4.9% APR with a money-off incentive that if I understand it correctly manages to come out at charging a few hundred less than the RRP.

Ford, GM and Chrysler all still offer 0% financing incentives on new cars here in the states depending on what you buy. This is typically for models that aren't brand new or have recently gone under a face lift. Most of the time they also much be from dealer stock and you have to take delivery by a certain date. Newer models often have decent low APR rates, I think a Fusion can be had right now with a 1.9% APR...that's not awful. I think I managed a 4.9% through Ford Credit on my Focus.
 
Honda Fit

Scion tC

Civic Si you can definitely haggle with a salesman to get one for $20,000 depending on how much you can put down.

Or any other 2012 Civic.

2012s are UGLY. Something around a 2006-2009 might be had for about 17k or less. Only mechanical issue is whether third gear pops out, which was remedied in 2008 supposedly. And others claim switching to better MTF will take care of it anyway. Mine was built in July '08, has never had an issue with that (or anything else besides some paint flaws).

The only thing is I'm sure you'd miss the low end torque and might not like having to shift it as much as a result.

I saw a new tC last week in silver and I actually liked it. Would be great if that was the FT-86/FR-S, really. With RWD and all. I believe that's only the second one I've seen on the road...weird.

I still lean towards the 6MT GTO. Arguably one of the best GM interiors ever, they look great, handle well enough, and go and sound fantastic.
 
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go with the mustang I have had s2000 expereince and as much as I love those cars not good for communting mustang is alittle more versitile and you can always mess with the suspension to get a nicer feel of the road for cheap
 
The OP wants a fun car to drive. I can honestly say that the 1.8L Versa is fairly horrid to drive so I have to imagine a 1.6L with nothing on it has to be even worse. If you are going to spend that little on a car you might as well pick something up that's a year or two old that is much better.

Amen, I know it sounds that I could own a 2012 low model car and be worry free but my heart and soul is fueled by cars and driving and I would rather have a slightly older car (still with warranty) and have it put a smile on my face on those late night relaxing drives and make me smile when I've had a bad day.

2008 Dakota, 6-speed, 2WD, 31,480 miles for a hair under $12K:
Autotrader: 2008 Dodge Dakota

2008 Dakota SXT, 2WD, 3.7L V6, 19,541, $17,600:
Autotrader: 2008 Dodge Dakota SXT

Not the V8 and not 4wd, but not bad choices either way, IMHO.

As for Ford Rangers, here's a pretty sharp Ranger. It's a 2006 model, but it has the 5-speed, it's 4wd, extended cab, and only has 17,521 miles for $18,900:
Autotrader: 2006 Ford Ranger 4x4

Last suggestion, a 2009 Ford Ranger Sport 4x4, 25,820 miles, V6 and 5-speed, for $17,998:
Autotrader: 2009 Ford Ranger Sport 4x4

(The 2009 Ranger would be my choice, IMHO)

Just a few quick picks. The Ranger's a good choice as trucks go, they've been around forever, parts are cheap and easy to find, they're reliable, and should not cost a whole lot to insure.

All good suggestions, even though I already thanked you over the messenger :).

go with the mustang I have had s2000 expereince and as much as I love those cars not good for communting mustang is alittle more versitile and you can always mess with the suspension to get a nicer feel of the road for cheap

The mustang is higher up the list for that reason and the s2000 are a good amount harder to come by for a decent price and mileage.
 
That's like owning a Pontiac Aztek and saying the Nissan Juke is ugly.

Really?

2008_Civic_Si_Coupe_114.jpg


2012-civic-si-coupe-h.jpg
 
I could see someone calling a 2006-2011 boring, but, ugly? Its a pretty simple design. The new one has all sorts of lines and other crap going on (least cohesive front end ever - the sedan is kinda okay).

I like the 2012 better than the 2011. 4 more hp for the Si. Wonder if it weighs less.


Lol. 4hp from a 400cc bigger motor is all they could do somehow. Probably due to the integrated exhaust manifold or something. Doubt it got lighter, the coupe looks bloated. Guess I may as well go check...

2877lbs for the coupe (2897lbs with Navigation...lolwut? 20lb nav unit?) Not listed for the sedan. Mine weighs 2945lbs, and there was roughly 70lbs difference before, so it is roughly the same weight.

Interesting that they list a 7000rpm redline. I wonder if it hits 8k anymore.
 
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I could see someone calling a 2006-2011 boring, but, ugly? Its a pretty simple design. The new one has all sorts of lines and other crap going on (least cohesive front end ever - the sedan is kinda okay).

Ok, you're right. Ugly was the wrong word. I just don't think either is better looking than the other. The previous gen is pretty bland, uninteresting. The new one, hey tried to make it a bit more funky, huge rear. More of an accord coupe/g35 styling.
I wouldn't mind owning either as they're both good to drive. Looks just don't play a huge role in my decision, to be honest.
 
I still think its funny that Honda responded to the Kia Koup looking so similar to the Civic by introducing a model that looks like a ripoff of the Kia Koup.

4 more hp for the Si. Wonder if it weighs less.
It has 4 more horsepower from an engine nearly half a liter larger, and the aftermarket is probably never going to touch the thing.
 
there is no replacement for displacement.

I'm sure the aftermarket will be huge, actually. As with all other Honda engines.
 
All other honda engines didn't have the exhaust manifold be part of the head, other than 2009+ FIT 1.5L. You'd need to source k20 heads if you want aftermarket headers, which would probably have to be modified for clearance.
 
All other honda engines didn't have the exhaust manifold be part of the head, other than 2009+ FIT 1.5L. You'd need to source k20 heads if you want aftermarket headers, which would probably have to be modified for clearance.

2006+ Civic 1.8L's header is cast to the head also. It has finally started to get a little aftermarket support and they seem to make decent power with a turbo...And as I type that I'm wondering how they do put a turbo on it if the manifold is cast to the head...
The new coupe reminds me of both the Accord Coupe and mainly the Altima Coupe, which I think has some really awkward proportions.

I do like that they added some tech stuff to the new cars. Eco mode on the base Civic to show the best throttle position for economy, finally has the onboard computer stuff showing average MPG, has elapsed time features, and some other things I wouldn't mind having. Also a Type-R style rev counter.

Edit:
@McLaren: Definitely. I bought a four door because I hated the rear of the coupes, but I'd have to buy a new four door because the whole coupe is ugly. :lol:

Is it just me or do Civic Si's have some unusually high ride height stock? And what self-respecting ricer would buy the 2 door without a wing?! :P
 
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@McLaren: Definitely. I bought a four door because I hated the rear of the coupes, but I'd have to buy a new four door because the whole coupe is ugly. :lol:

Is it just me or do Civic Si's have some unusually high ride height stock? And what self-respecting ricer would buy the 2 door without a wing?! :P
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who was wondering about that. It was ok on our models, but the new ones definitely look like you could put a whole fist in the gap & then some. :dunce:
 
high ride height FTL. My car stock really looked silly. Like 6" wheelgap in back, 4.5 up front
 
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The last gen 4 doors looked a lot better than the two doors as well, and even better with a JDM front end.

In any case, they stopped being very fun to drive in 2001 IMO. More power is nice, but < the same power out of a car with better road feel.

I guess as far as new cars go, they were pretty good, but I feel that overall cars have kind of been numbed down over the years, and I like the old "rawness" of cars.
 
fitftw
you answered your own question. The entire point of a dealership is to move cars off the lot. Nothing else. Why the HELL would they want cars sitting on the lot? They don't get paid for cars taking up space. That's the bottom line. They don't know I have $10,000 cash. I walk in and say "I have $8,000 cash for a brand new Versa" and they tell me to GTFO. Then I say "oh wait, $9,000" and if they still say GTFO, I walk away and go to a different dealer but chances are HIGH that they will accept one of those offers. Very high. I'm willing to bet they would take the first offer of $8,000. You really believe they want to wait 5 or 6 years to see $8,000 from some broke-ass who can only put down $1,000 when they can get an entire $8,000 in the span of 3 seconds? You're crazy.

Amazing how little you know about dealerships...

Others were right when they said dealerships are getting away from the haggling. What you see is what you get more or less now. Prices ARE NOT entirely set by the individual dealerships anymore. Goodluck with your $8000 Versa haha!

Oh and while you try and save the extra $50 on your Versa remember how much gas you used driving to all the different ones.
 
Sorry to bring this back but I never got the chance to respond to this.

Though a $9000 transmission for a Diahatsu was fine.

When the $9k transmission was backing up a 1.6L TURBOCHARGED motor producing over 200Kw@wheels, then I think the cost was definitely fine considering he couldn't do anything to his previous transmission as it was geared too short. It was topping out at just over 100mph pre-gearbox, after the gearbox swap he could hit 150mph without a worry. 👍
 

Allright.... does anyone have a good reason as to why Honda made the Civic Si's Engine a fat and cheap @$$ engine? Are they running out of money? Are they trying to look like American by making it like the EcoTec l4 Engine from the past? Do they have Americans on the high ranks?
 
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