Gran Turismo 6 coming to PS3

GT6 on PS3
doesn't need better graphics
doesn't need more cars
doesn't need more tracks

It only need three things:
- much better AI
- Event Editor
- Livery Editor.
I agree mostly.
I think perhaps about 100 new cars,better online stability and better customization.(body parts,bumpers,spoilers etc)
Better career,menu,sound effects,drag racing point to point and qualifying.
GT5's graphics are plenty good enough,maybe tone them down for online @ 720p and GT6 should be great.
 
GT6 on PS3
doesn't need better graphics
doesn't need more cars
doesn't need more tracks

It only need three things:
- much better AI
- Event Editor
- Livery Editor.

So why not just patch GT5 then? Of course a sequel needs new cars and tracks.
 
So why not just patch GT5 then? Of course a sequel needs new cars and tracks.

Well I vaguely recall Kaz saying something like ...'we need to save some/something for GT6...'
Maybe that's what PD are doing.
GT5 is so popular perhaps PD don't need too.
 
I certainly do, for the reasons Scaff mentioned - it has also been discussed a number of times on this thread.


That first part may be true, I mean I would buy GT6 on the PS4 - however, Sony have already made a statement about their thinking on this. They recognise the need to ensure the PS4 continues to sell beyond the initial launch. Factories are more efficient if production stays at a constant, enabling them to keep experienced staff - if demand keeps rising and falling every few months, things become more difficult.

By the reasoning that GT6 will arrive on the PS3 - Drive Club will be there at launch for the PS4 and GT7 later on - they do think about this sort of stuff well in advance.

As for the last point, Sony have made a public statement that they will be supporting the PS3 and the devs who produce games for it until at least 2015.

Yeah you'll continue to get Madden until at least 2015. But all the big AAA first party games will move to the PS4. In fact most of them already have.

PS3 will start to get Hanna Montana type games as Sony expects the older siblings in families to pass the PS3 down to the younger siblings.

I just cant see PD releasing patches and updates and DLC for GT6 on the PS3 in 2015, with a GT7 PS4 title due in 2016. All the while Forza 5 was a launch title for the Xbox Infinity

Me.

Until I know that PD have moved things on from GT5 then they do not automatically get a sale from me.

If its on the PS3 I am more likely to take a punt, but its not a launch day must at present. As for a GT on the PS4, well they have got to do a lot to convince me to buy a new machine as well, and affording one has zero to do with that.

Money isnt a deciding factor for me, but in a different way. GT6 would be much cheaper on the PS3, as all I would have to buy is the disc. But for me personally Im not interested in a PS3 GT6 anymore with the launch of the PS4. Im ready for the next generation of games. I cant see myself turning the PS3 on at all once I get a PS4.

Also there will be a flurry of "next gen" PC sims released in the next 10 or so months. I'll be more interested in getting a gaming PC to play them then I would a GT6 on PS3
 
GT6 on PS3
doesn't need better graphics
doesn't need more cars
doesn't need more tracks
It only need three things:
- much better AI
- Event Editor
- Livery Editor.

Agreed except for the bold. GT6 definitely needs more tracks, specifically, more tracks suited to real life racing. Tracks with decent length straights for drafting and decent width for running side by side. And we need short (1.5-3km), medium (3-5km) and long (5+km) tracks, along with a good selection of classics from previous versions of the game. Without additional tracks, I'd seriously consider not buying the game at all, as I don't care about any of the offline part of the game.
 
Luckily Lucas has said there will be a large amount of tracks (I just love mentioning that). :) The tracks will also look perfecting detailed he said, maybe even matching the premium cars quality hopefully. *.*

As for the standard cars. It should be clear that they 100% won't be returning back in GT6, as we saw both the Lancia Delta Rally car and the Alfa Romeo 155 Touring car being recaptured to be remodeled into premium quality. ;) If the rest doesn't make it, they can be released as DLC with the new cars. 👍
 
I have no idea whether it's post microsoft or not. I'm also not sure when the rumor about Sony's mini announcement was made before the Microsoft announcement was even dated. I'm only speculating on what three weeks meant.
I think they just said that they'd make an announcement after the MS event whenever it showed up.

...And that comment from Amar is just too old, plus it doesn't coincide with the 6 step to left/right part of the comment, unless you know what else that could mean...
I haven't a clue about that, but there's half the fun in Amar's riddles right there :)

I still think that if it is a PS4 that it'll be later on, a year or so after release as there is is Drive Club to consider - I hope therefore I'm wrong in my interpretation of the riddle.
 
Applying antialiasing at native resolution does little but fuzz up the image slightly. It may be more pleasing to some eyes, but that's an individual reaction.

Just dropping GT6 (on PS3) to 720p isn't going to free up a treasure trove of resources. Rendering that 1280x1080 image to 1920x1080 is just a small part of what the Cell Engine is doing every 60th of a second. It definitely helps, but I think my list of things to cut back is what's going to be needed, and likely more technical things I haven't thought of that are intrinsic to the GT Engine and Cell architecture. PD engineers likely have been working with this over the past few years, and if GT6 does come out on PS3, I'm hoping to see some definite improvements. The ceiling is vastly higher on PS4, so I'd expect monumental improvements on it across the board, graphics aside, which I expect to be like GT5 but flawless.

The one thing I think would be notable graphically on PS4 is something Griffith500 mentioned, and that's amazing realism in metallic, pearl and chrome paints. Plus slightly related, there would be all kinds of processing power available for breeze/wind modeling, moving trees, flags and other items, better spectator animations, etc, that "living world" thing.

A note I'd bring up about amar212 is that he's something of a SONY/PD insider, and while Microsoft might have let him in on some of Forza 5, he wasn't with Horizons which wasn't even a Turn 10/MS product. I don't think they would open up to someone involved in "the other side." Plus, it seems he was talking about the week before the big MS luvfest. We'll see in a few weeks though.

Just to clarify,
By rendering natively at 720p rather than 1280x1080 would save cpu and gpu time and be worth doing. Dropping res is often an easy way to do this and is the reason why other studios do the same. For example Bioshock Infinite renders at 1152x640, Call of Duty: Black Ops renders at 960x544, Crysis 2 at 1024x720. You mistakenly think i was referring to the upscale of GT5s 1280x1080 res to full 1080p. You are correct in saying that a simple upscale operation on ps3 would not be chief target in trying to pull back compute time.

The ps3 version of crysis 2 uses a lower res than the xbox version for what reason? Digital Foundry states..

"Quite why there is a resolution difference at all is intriguing. Having fewer pixels to process obviously helps reduce fill-rate concerns, but curiously, notes left within the config files suggest that RAM was also a consideration: apparently 14MB of memory is saved by dropping res (which seems to suggest a hell of a lot of internal buffers being used to compose each frame)."

Obviously GT5 uses a forward renderer while Crysis 2's Crytek engine used a forward renderer with a deffered component for the lighting. This means the ram saved would be larger in this instance than GT5 would benefit from dropping its res but it is an example of the gains. Also beneficial would be the fillrate reduction which i was aluding to in my original post by suggesting cpu/gpu time would be saved by lowering the res to 720p for GT6.

Finally a note on your comment about anti aliasing. GT5 already employs antialiasing as i stated. at 1080p it uses quincunx and at 720p it impressively (for ps3) uses 4xmsaa. msaa is resource hungry and will poach ram that could be used for other things (albeit a small amount). What i sugegsted was that GT6 use 2xMSAA in conjunction with a screen space aa such as MLAA or a refined version of FXAA.
Screen Space post process AA uses virtually no RAM in comparison to traditional MSAA but can be very effective in reducing aliasing on short and curved edges. In my own unproffesional hobbyist opinion it would be the best compromise between performance/image quality.
 
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First, @ acidreach, I totally get what you're saying. But in order for a GT6 on PS3 to be a seriously better game in all areas, that resolution/AA drop is just the start of what I'd think is required. I don't just want particle and shader artifacts fixed, I want even more refined physics, tire modeling and what I call car ballistics, some kind of damage modeling, better bot A.I., more realistic weather effects, more lifelike world elements such as spectators and moving clouds, a much improved Course Maker, a Livery Editor, an Event Maker which would be useful online for creating clubs and leagues, not just race events, a much better online structure period, loading times and big files that don't bog the PS3 down...

Just everything. ;) And in order to do this, they need to cut back and rewrite a little bit of everything for PS3. And this is why I really want GT6 to be on PS4, because they can do a lot of building on the ground up on a much more powerful system with headroom to spare and fewer boundaries to consider.

GT6 on PS3
doesn't need better graphics
*SCRATCH*

Sure, GT5 is drop dead gorgeous, but those frame drops, screen tearing, particle jaggies and shader issues need to go.

C'mon now. We have over 750 standards. Erase most and refresh the good ones. Nobody is going to toy with the same cars(all the cars in gt5) for years man.
Speak for yourself. A good number of us use those Standards all the time. I'm constantly rotating cars out of my Favorites list to race in Arcade Mode, my stand-in for an Event Maker. We don't all just love the supercars and race cars. I need that Nissan 240SX hatchback, Silvia Spec-R Aero, 4WD Celica GT, the Spirra... there are a few hundred cars I would miss badly.

I understand the spite some here have for the Standards, but I hope that PD does like Turn 10 and includes them all with a polygon face lift, and gives them the same race moddability and bodykits the Premiums get. My gut tells me this won't happen, and if it doesn't, I'm likely going to have to fire up GT5 from time to time and enjoy my several hundred rides again. But I hope the team can work some kind of modeling magic and make us all happy with the cars like we will be the tracks, which most likely will be Standard tracks resurrected.
 
Even if they don't get the same modification ability as the standard, a lot of the standards are great to drive. The standards in GT5 are inconsistent, so I hope if they return, they can all look consistent, at least to the best looking standards in GT5. There's quiet a bit of standards that can be cut in my opinion, and if they just select a few, they should be able to clean them up a bit more, as oppose to cleaning all 800 which is just not productive.

I don't even care how they look honestly as they seem fine to me. It's only so the ones that are bothered by the graphics won't be too judgemental. I just want a lot of my favorite standards to return.
 
Just everything. ;) And in order to do this, they need to cut back and rewrite a little bit of everything for PS3. And this is why I really want GT6 to be on PS4, because they can do a lot of building on the ground up on a much more powerful system with headroom to spare and fewer boundaries to consider.

... not to mention that they can release GT7 later on the PS4 with all optimization so GT7 can look even better than GT6, which is something I don't see happening with GT5 --> GT6 on the PS3

I understand people who want GT6 on the PS3 so ideal situation would be GT6 on both PS3 and PS4 with cross-play capability, that could be interesting
 
... not to mention that they can release GT7 later on the PS4 with all optimization so GT7 can look even better than GT6, which is something I don't see happening with GT5 --> GT6 on the PS3

I understand people who want GT6 on the PS3 so ideal situation would be GT6 on both PS3 and PS4 with cross-play capability, that could be interesting

Ain't gonna happen. The PS4-version would have to run the exact same physics as the PS3-version, and I guess we all would hope they can improve on it with the resources available on the PS4...
 
Ain't gonna happen. The PS4-version would have to run the exact same physics as the PS3-version, and I guess we all would hope they can improve on it with the resources available on the PS4...

Do better physics demand so much power?
 
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I thought I just throw this in:

1080 2x QAA
720 4x MSAA
3D

Replay Theatre lets us compare the same race in 720/1080p/3D. Top gear graph is 720p, middle tear graph is 1080p, bottom tear graph is 3D. In the 3D tear analysis, above the 10FPS line is tearing in the left eye. Below the 1080FPS line is tearing in the right eye.
Of course, they could get rid of the MSAA and increase performance even more.


Btw, I think 1080 2x QAA looks clearly better than 720 4x MSAA. It's much sharper and cleaner than 720.
I'd be terribly disapointed if the next GT titles won't run in 1080.
 
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You're using the same view I use.

It seems this game runs on pal instead of ntsc, the frame rate seems to be more in the 50 frames range instead of the 60 frames a second range.
 
TBH, I think I rather have GT6 on the PS4 and PD just release a complete, fixed version of GT5 where they fix everything for the PS3.
 
Ain't gonna happen. The PS4-version would have to run the exact same physics as the PS3-version, and I guess we all would hope they can improve on it with the resources available on the PS4...
I believe that if they did a dual release, they would go ahead and make GT6 PS4 a different game in many ways. It would practically have to be. Very short loading times would just be the start.

The Movie Maker would finally be possible because of the crazy amount of ram and processor power in PS4. Spectating would be routine, and online would be much more powerful. The Course Maker might be like we have in ModNation Racers, a true terrain builder but in HD. The Livery Editor could be much more powerful. Lighting, especially night lighting, would be jaw dropping, and shadows would finally look about perfect. Weather effects and time of day transitions would be impeccable, and precipitation would have a marked impact on grip. Tire modeling and car ballistics could be amazingly lifelike, and we'd finally see a serious damage implementation. Rally racing should be amazing, and a total blast. Race fields could be much more than 24 cars deep, allowing for serious multiclass racing, even online if the network SONY is building is as lag free as they think it will be.

There are a lot of things I'm sure Polyphony would want to do with that PS4 power, and would make GT6 on it a very desirable game. I think fans would throw a fit if they were the same game on both systems, and this reminds me of amar212's post about PS3 getting "finger food, while PS4 will celebrate." And as he said a few days ago, if "nobody will be disappointed," I wonder if SONY would do that dual release after all.

Do better physics demand so much power?
They do, and it depends on what else the game is demanding of the system. In my post of a couple days ago, when I mentioned racing in my other games, the PC sims are pushing very dated visuals on the order of high res PS2 graphics. The bots are mostly polite and pursue their pre-determined race strategy. Damage is barely rendered at all visually, though Live For Speed uses basic crumple cardboard/putty body deformations. So with those two, most of the available resources are going to physics modeling.

In the case of Forza, graphics are about as important as with Gran Turismo. In Forza 4, they did some shortsheeting, much like was done with Toca Race Driver. For instance, in multi-model races, they use generic engine samples except for your car, and this shows up in replays. They used to drop detail in the bot cars a lot, so much so that in Forza 2 they almost looked like inflatable models. It wasn't quite that bad in Gran Turismo games, but they would do things like drop some detail, shadows would vanish, as well as tinted windows, headlights would be off, environment reflections on windows were copied from your car - GT5 still does this, etc. Also, with the bot cars giving up when you get a certain distance ahead of them, that frees up resources to focus on the cars within a certain range of you.

It's like a budget, and there is only so much horsepower to go around. Think of it like money. When you're a kid, and you have $5, and you want to do five things, you could spend a dollar on them evenly. If you really want something special and sweet, you could spend half or more on a pie or tub of ice cream, but that wouldn't leave much for anything else, like the arcade. As you get older, your budget grows with you, and you're spending hundreds to thousands of dollars.

In the case of PS3, you could say it gives you a budget of $500. And with GT5, it seems they spent $200 on graphics and $200 on physics, leaving little for other things like bot A.I. and weather effects, and maybe a dollar or two for damage. But with PS4, your budget is now more like $8,000. If you spent ten times the budget on physics, you still have 75% of those resources available to play with. This is why I'm with people like RandomCarGuy, and anxious to see GT6 on that.
 
You're using the same view I use.

It seems this game runs on pal instead of ntsc, the frame rate seems to be more in the 50 frames range instead of the 60 frames a second range.


PS3 output when playing games is always 60fps and depends on game rendering speed if they can match, GT5 isn't capable to hold 60 fps all the time as we can see from analysis, it's actually quite bad when is raining or more cars are on the track.

And in HD era there is no such thing as PAL or NTSC, these are SD analog formats.
 
You're using the same view I use.
A replay was used, so it's not necessarily the view he (yes he) used. Also, it's definitely NOT my driving, I really don't drive that bad. Honestly, he drives horrible. I almost feel offended now! ;)
It seems this game runs on pal instead of ntsc, the frame rate seems to be more in the 50 frames range instead of the 60 frames a second range.
It is indeed the PAL version, the framerates are the same though. As you can see, the framerate occasionally goes up to 60fps, which is also the fps limit. The PS3 simply doesn't have enough power to run the game constantly in 60fps, no matter if it's the PAL or NTSC version.


EDIT:
I was just playing GT5 in 720p for about 2hours and noticed how much worse it actually looks. I have a 1080p TV and I really do hope that all the contra 1080/pro 720 people have one too.
If one does only have a 720p TV then you don't really have anything to say about the sense of having 1080 res.
 
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We've been through all of that sound issue and what was meant, plus what actually got delivered quite some time ago...

Yes, it is believed that an improvement will come with GT6.
 
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They are not realistic at all, they sound too artificial in GT5, plus they have been really lazy to properly research and record some car's engine sounds. It would be great if cars in GT6 had more realistic (and louder) turbo and supercharger whistle and whining noises. Plus they really need to research and fix the rotary (Wankel) engine sounds, the only ones that sound right are the stock ones and the 787B's. The RX7 Spirit R even changes it's engine noise from a 2 rotor one to a 3 rotor one simply by fitting a racing exhaust. For those that don't know, 3 rotor engines are the "big block" rotary engines with more capacity due to the extra rotor which gives the engine 3 more combustion chambers and 654cc.
 
We've been stung by that before tho....

The question is different tracks or different track layouts.

100 new tracks (proper tracks none of this course maker BS) would be awesome, however 50 tracks with 2 variations not so much.

I think you mean the other way around ;)
 
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