Gran Turismo 6 coming to PS3

How did GT5: Prologue do it in this regard?
There were two main changes to the game engine that I attribute to the worsened graphic issues in GT5: time of day transition and 3D. Since TOD is only implemented on a portion of the tracks, I put the blame on the 3D implementation, which was most likely from SONY's insistence, not PD's, and really should have been an optional install considering how few 3DTVs have been sold so far. I know this is a growing market, especially for SONY, but the numbers are still pretty low, and I suspect that the general TV buying public are hoping for a glasses-free technology, such as used on Nintendo's 3DS.

Prologue suffered glitchy shaders too, and many of us were pretty sure that would be resolved when GT5 itself was finished. The fact that they haven't, and those weird particle jaggies crept in, are two key pieces of evidence that PD are pushing the PS3 to the limit.

In online lobbies, it's best to go with a field of 12, a maximum of 13 or 14 on a good day (even without mics...). You can go with 16, but most drivers will experience frame rate issues and it's likely that some drivers will experience connection issues and get disconnected. I'd like to see a solid 16 car field race before that field number increases. And again, I'm sure GT5:P's 16 car field offline races were smoother than GT5's.
I forgot about the online racing issues in my early morning post, and I must confess that I hardly ever race online anymore, but I remember those issues. One thing that will help with this is the new PSN network structure SONY is building for PS4, a high-bandwidth data path that should mitigate some of the online issues. How much that would benefit PS3, I'm not sure, as PS4 is built to take advantage of it, but it can only help. If SONY can manage to connect 16 PS3s with consistent low-lag speed, those maximum fields could be possible again with few or no issues.

On Scaff's post above, we're pretty much in harmony over what to do with GT6. I resisted the idea of dropping resolution for some time, as I want GT6 to advance, not lose ground anywhere. But as we've both said, 720p is still a fantastic resolution, and you can add a smidge of AA/MSAA or whatever smoothing method you want. But PD has loaded up GT6 with a number of processor taxing features like stellar graphics and sim-like physics which have limited progress in other areas, like bot A.I. and the effects of rain on tire dynamics, so I'd say cut something everywhere it will matter least, and resolution is one of those.

Scaff has been in the business so he knows his stuff, and along with input from a number of other members who have solid knowledge in these areas, I'm hoping that the PD team listens and implements as much of their ideas as they can.

One thing neither Scaff or I mentioned is damage, and GT5 has the Cell Engine so busy that damage is barely implemented at all. It's so minor that I don't even bother turning it on. In order to have any kind of damage modeling in GT6, and Forza 4's damage build really should be the baseline, the team is going to have to scavenge a bunch of processor time everywhere they can, and I'm leery of what that might compromise. And one thing I didn't mention is every process the Cell has to do must be very carefully timed because of it's weird architecture, or the game could risk crashing.

This is a big reason I much prefer GT6 to come out for PS4, because PD will have access to eight full processor cores, not one CPU and five or six auxiliary sub-processors, plus a far more advanced GPU and a crazy amount of fast ram. With careful threading, you could assign a processor to handle specific tasks such as bot A.I., rain effects on the track, damage... whatever you want, which may well be done on PS3, but the Cell has a tight data bottleneck programmers have to work through. Tracks can have amazing detail everywhere within the vicinity of the track, enabling Photo Mode shots from great heights without worry of seeing unmodeled empty areas behind railing or spectator stands. Offline, racing fields could be up to 32 cars deep, or more, making possible real multiclass racing. There would be more than enough ram for specific car sound elements such as turbos, transmission whine and engine specific sounds. I mentioned the night racing, with every light source casting its own illumination, up to a point, but we wouldn't have the silly limit of only two cars having real headlight glow. A Livery Editor could be almost Photoshop capable, with pen and tablet input - and GT6 could have filters, so the squeamish among us need never see an ugly, obscene or cool livery online. And I drool over thoughts of what an HD Course Maker could be. While GT6 on PS3 should be an awesome racer, there are a number of things PS3 just won't be able to deliver.

Even with all the issues, GT5 is still a benchmark racing game on PS3, and I expect something special in GT6, whichever system it's on.

One more thing. I'm with all of you wanting more Aussie representation in GT6, though I want every racing league to be well represented, minus the expensive F1 license. I'm fine with GT's fantasy cars, or CART if they can manage that too.
 
Interesting Scaff brings up the resolution because honestly, I never could see what the big difference was/is between 720 and 1080.
 
With movies, 720p is indistinguishable. In videogames, you can sometimes discern a difference in certain situations because of the nature of generated graphics, if you have eagle eyes, but the image is so close as to not really matter. It's a big difference to the system, because compared to the 1280x1080 internal resolution of GT5 to a typical 1280x720 image, RSX has to paint two-thirds the pixels per frame. I'd gladly give those resources up to PD to use elsewhere, and hardly any gamer would see any difference, except a more solid display with little or no issues.
 
The PS3 is here to stay for at least another 5 years. People forget that the PS2 is still being sold new in some countries and that has been out since 2000 (that's 13 years) and the PS3 in 2006 (that's 7 years). Sony has officially stated that the PS3 will be supported until at least 2015 (http://au.ign.com/articles/2012/09/24/sony-to-support-ps3-until-at-least-2015), plus there have been strong rumours that GT6 will come out this year BEFORE the PS4 gets released...

And Dark Side of The Moon was on the sales charts for 741 weeks and is still selling :)
 
In this generation I'm happy to see 10-12 cars max in a race online. Half are usually too slow to ever fight for the lead anyway so...

Custom liveries I can live without too.

I don't mind a pp system and I'd like to see practice times being separated by pp or at least show what the pp was when you set a time.

Maybe 400/450/500/550 etc leaderboards for you to test different cars at set pp and be able to compare results like for like.
 
In this generation I'm happy to see 10-12 cars max in a race online. Half are usually too slow to ever fight for the lead anyway so...

So because not everyone is as skilled as the fastest drivers the field should be narrowed down? I'm sorry, I know it' your opinion but that is one idea I can not agree with in the least. The maximum field that tech will allow should always be an option. I can't wait for the days when a GT game allows for 20+ cars of mixed class racing.
 
No I'm not saying that I wouldn't like it, just that I could live without it on the next ps3 installment if they can fix some of the other stuff.
 
I don't see why PD should take such radical decisions as to change resolutioon for 720p or drop 3D for GT6 on ps3...
we don't really know what happened in GT5's production life, so we don't know why it ended up with so many shortcomings... but what we know is that any dev can optimize his engine. Look what Naughty dog did between uncharted 1 (tearing fest!) and uncharted 2!
Sucker punch with infamoius 1 and 2... the enhancements were massive!

So no: i don't see why PD, from all dves, are the only ones who made a 100% efficient (I know it does not work like that guys, but you get my point), un-optimizable engine at their first try (GT5P does not count: it's obviously a step of GT5 production chain).

So I think PD may have gone into the wrong direction on many points with their engine..and they had 3 years to correct that... which, for any dev, should be far enough.

I expect the same resolution and a perfectly steady 60fps framerate. no less. Maybe no 3D as it obviously did not meet consumers (God of war has no 3D...and sony exec are less and less confident that it's going to work)....

Again: I am pretty sure (but it s just an opinion: not a fact) PD went through huge production problems that came from early bad technical/design decisions.

that probably won't happen with GT6...
 
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cassiusclay99
I don't see why PD should take such radical decisions as to change resolutioon for 720p or drop 3D for GT6 on ps3...
we don't really know what happened in GT5's production life, so we don't know why it ended up with so many shortcomings... but what we know is that any dev can optimize his engine. Look what Naughty dog did between uncharted 1 (tearing fest!) and uncharted 2!
Sucker punch with infamoius 1 and 2... the enhancements were massive!

So no: i don't see why PD, from all dves, are the only ones who made a 100% efficient (I know it does not work like that guys, but you get my point), un-optimizable engine at their first try (GT5P does not count: it's obviously a step of GT5 production chain).

So I think PD may have gone into the wrong direction on many points with their engine..and they had 3 years to correct that... which, for any dev, should be far enough.

I expect the same resolution and a perfectly steady 60fps framerate. no less. Maybe no 3D as it obviously did meet consumers (God of war has no 3D...and sony exec are less and less confident that it's going to work)....

Again: I am pretty sure (but it s just an opinion: not a fact) PD went through huge production problems that came from early bad technical/design decisions.

that probably won't happen with GT6...

I had a look at GT5 in 720p it didnt feel any different.
 
No. right now it's not optimized to run at 720p. If they had targeted 720p from the start, I am sure it would at least mean a better IQ (which is ironic as normally, that s the whole point of a higher resolution) and framerate.

I wish PD had chosen 720p from the start...but now that they did not, I don't see them change it.
 
cassiusclay99
No. right now it's not optimized to run at 720p. If they had targeted 720p from the start, I am sure it would at least mean a better IQ (which is ironic as normally, that s the whole point of a higher resolution) and framerate.

I wish PD had chosen 720p from the start...but now that they did not, I don't see them change it.

I agree if they hadnt been so focused on pushing things a number of times higher from GT4 to GT5 who knows what game we would have had.

I would have been happy with 720p.
 
I agree if they hadnt been so focused on pushing things a number of times higher from GT4 to GT5 who knows what game we would have had.

I would have been happy with 720p.

I would be happier if GT5 was perfect, but it wasn't because PD took the wrong decisons there was to take.

GT4 was nearly perfect game for PS2, even GT3 was very good. Kazunori arrives at the office and says: "For this new GT we will ramp up the horses" and so they did. The final result: the wrong definition (should be 720p came out with 1080p), crap*y online service (wrong physics, the supposed 16 cars on the track is sort of impossible), a GT Life with no life what so ever, a 3D compatibility tha came out a year before the success 3D LED TV, a arcade mode that is very bad (instead of having all cars in the game like GT4, had a bad selection of cars and the 100 favourite that we could add from our garage) and the ridiculous 1000 cars where just a quarter is worth to look at. These are all traces of a incomplete game as we know, that blew up all the capacity of the PS3

Could the GT6 be the fix of the GT5 hole, changing a bit here and there, improving some points I and most of mentioned, or just a brand new game, most likely to be like GT5?

For now all we can do is wait and pray until June, our best hope...
 
Well it's been a long time since I posted here, but I recently became aware of the possibility of GT6 being on PS3 and had to do some research on it.

I think PD/Sony will announce the game the week of 13th May-17th May. It will be playable on the E3 show floor. Release Oct-Nov this year or earlier.

I also think whatever PD's plans are for GT PS4, it will happen a lot sooner than many think. Kaz will hopefully talk about it at the E3 conference.

Unknown employee increase at PD. This has almost certainly happened when you look at the rest of WWS.

Easier and faster development environment for the new hardware with direct input from PD themselves.

GT5 laying the foundations in game engine/tools/assets.

Whatever happens in the end though, the end of this year is looking amazing for gamers.
 
I think PD/Sony will announce the game the week of 13th May-17th May. It will be playable on the E3 show floor. Release Oct-Nov this year or earlier.
I think that's way too soon, almost a month before E3. I can see SONY dropping teaser grenades of some kind to blunt the media feeding frenzy over the XBox unveil on the 21st. And it may involve GT6, but my inclination is that it's mostly going to be vague things that make us all crazy, and flood boards like this with even more speculation.

As for being playable on the E3 floor... maybe. A Forza 5 demo running on NexBox hardware is a distinct possibility, so SONY might well have PD whip up a "prologue" of GT6 to compete for attention, whether it's built for PS3 or 4. I'm thinking though that a real playable version of GT6 would be unveiled at the Tokyo Game Show in the fall.

I took some time out yesterday to play a number of my racers for a bit, from PC sims GTR Evo/2 and Live For Speed to Forza 4 - and had to dig my G25 and 360 stuff from under the cobwebs to do so. Now I had to do the same with my DFGT rig a few months ago too, as I'd been on a writing and composing binge for the past year, so I've been neglecting all of them. But when I felt that need for speed again, GT5 is where I went.

Anyway, I was struck by a few things. One, that all these racers gave you a fairly solid racing experience. The flavors and immersion were all different. I had mentioned a couple of years ago that the PC sims had marvelous physics but were emotionally uninvolving, and this was still true. I just didn't bond with them at all. I felt no attachment to the cars, didn't like 10tacle Studios choices much, and of course LFS's rides are all fakes. I could connect with the cars well, felt the handling pretty well, and taking turns quickly became intuitive and routine when I got dialed into the tracks, but some essence of involvement just wasn't there. They felt stale and clinical. The bots were boring at all difficulties, and I wasn't blown away by the sounds. Damage was mostly mechanical, with little visual consequence - LFS cars bent like putty, though collisions could be dramatic, and in the case of LFS were the most realistic I've seen in a racer. Replays were lame. It also didn't help that their graphics were on the order of PS2-in-HD.

Forza 4 was a big jump in all areas. The ambient techno menu soundtrack was tasty. Graphics were superb. The AutoVista level graphics of the cars in the garage were terrific, if a little like plastic mock-ups or models. The cars looked much better on the track, and the courses were very well rendered. The graphics in race were also very close to those in replay, with a fairly lifelike color palette. Car physics are amazing, with very realistic collision behavior and bodyroll in turns. However, once again I just couldn't connect with the cars. Approaching turns is about as problematic as in Enthusia, another game which doesn't work with me, and I constantly roasted tires. Whether from the incredibly lifelike screeching sounds or what, once again I could swear I smelled burnt rubber! Brakes locked up easily, so I went into the menu to turn on ABS and... darn, it was on. Except it clearly wasn't working. There might be an update but I couldn't dig up a single CAT5 cable. The bots are also stupid, as bad in their own way as GT5's, and clog every turn as they slow down and bash their way through.

Going into hotlap mode to school myself was an ordeal. The 3D perspective is deceptive, and I couldn't brake and take a turn comfortably for the life of me, even after half an hour. Racing was still a chore, and collisions with competitors were too common. Collisions were often catastrophic and threw me off the track, which was both good and bad, as they were quite realistic but the bots made wrecking out much too easy. And what irked me greatly was the hideously LOUD engine noise, as if every stock muffler was really a racing muffler in disguise. It was why I never upgraded my mufflers in the short time I had played F4. Needless to say, racing was a mess. I managed to win a few, but had to resort to turn cutting to do so as the bots meandered through turns, clogging them up. Damage was excellent, with amazingly lifelike detail in body damage, and I recall mechanical damage being well modeled. One other thing that struck me was that the grip of street tires was much more tangible and sure, like real tires. But at the same time the grip dynamics were more like racing tires, as they tended to lose traction rather abruptly and without much warning at all. This didn't hep with taking turns, as they were almost random in result. Once again, replays were lame, though the graphics were nice.

But I'd had enough. It was 8:30 by then and I wanted to enjoy myself, so I threw the toys back in the basement and fired up GT5. The several hours I'd spent in my other racers, mostly Forza, were illuminating. I'd done this same thing when Forza 4 came out, and I had the same reactions. Most of the tracks in all these racers are pretty much manicured and flat, with very few uneven surfaces with notable exceptions like the Nordshleife. Still, with the other racers, you had to watch your driving through turns and not "zone out" in them, especially Forza, the one game I just can't connect with. GT5 on the other hand felt very "safe" and sure, even with aids off and ABS 0. Racing tires feel more like street tires with a similarly progressive grip loss envelope, something else that immediately struck me when I jumped back into it. But even then, you can throw your car around with more abandon in GT5, and if control is lost, recovery is a little easier.

But having said that, the driving feel of GT5 is very sim-like, very close to the feel of both GTR and LFS, even with the slightly slippier racing tires. I'd prefer that the tire sounds were more like they are in GTR, with a more distinct note when grip loss threatens, but it does the job as it is now. Turn 10 clearly went back to the drawing board for the suspension dynamics in Forza 4, and I missed that in GT5, as well as the incredible damage modeling. This is something that Kaz and the team need to work on in GT6, as well as the oft mentioned tire modeling. But without hurting the handling please! The last thing I want is to feel as far removed from the cars as I am in Forza. But if they could manage to capture the ballistics of vehicles realistically, somewhat like T10 did, that would make the perfect Gran Turismo.
 
I think that's way too soon, almost a month before E3. I can see SONY dropping teaser grenades of some kind to blunt the media feeding frenzy over the XBox unveil on the 21st. And it may involve GT6, but my inclination is that it's mostly going to be vague things that make us all crazy, and flood boards like this with even more speculation.

You may very well be right. The timing is based on a post by Amar212 at NeoGAF from a couple of days ago. I believe he gives hints about GT and posts here.

The post:

Amar212@NeoGAF
I go to sleep for 7 hours and this thread has already grown 100 posts. Congratulations.

I can't even fathom what will happen in the week three weeks from now. The madness will reach unthinkable levels.

It will be glorious, nobody will get out disappointed. Nobody.

Bearing in mind the thread it was posted in, I take that to mean both GT fans and Forza fans will be happy in three weeks.

Whether that means full reveal or teasers..........I'm excited.
 
Laffinassasin-> Funny cause i interpreted Amar's post as : GT6 will be released on PS3 AND PS4...so nobody will be disappointed.

That makes more sense to me as I know Amar can get informations about GT...but I don't recall him having infos about Forza.

So, to me, he is only talking about GT here.
 
Laffinassasin-> Funny cause i interpreted Amar's post as : GT6 will be released on PS3 AND PS4...so nobody will be disappointed.

That makes more sense to me as I know Amar can get informations about GT...but I don't recall him having infos about Forza.

So, to me, he is only talking about GT here.

I see what you're saying and I did think that at first but with Drive Club at launch would it be likely?

Or maybe GT PS4 will come a lot sooner than some think if GT6 is PS3 only? Say 6 to 12 months after PS4 launch instead of 3-5 years?
 
I see what you're saying and I did think that at first but with Drive Club at launch would it be likely?

Or maybe GT PS4 will come a lot sooner than some think if GT6 is PS3 only? Say 6 to 12 months after PS4 launch instead of 3-5 years?

There's no way they will launch GT7 so soon after GT6.

Bear in mind we have no idea when GT6 is going to launch, so to speculate on the release of GT7 is, well, foolish to say the least.
 
There's no way they will launch GT7 so soon after GT6.

Bear in mind we have no idea when GT6 is going to launch, so to speculate on the release of GT7 is, well, foolish to say the least.

Don't forget we have already seen two separate online retailers list a release date for GT6 on the PS3 for November 2013, so we do have at least some idea of when GT6 will be released.
 
Don't forget we have already seen two separate online retailers list a release date for GT6 on the PS3 for November 2013, so we do have at least some idea of when GT6 will be released.

They only know as much as we do, they are not sources in which we should really be basing our theories on since they based GT6 off of other theories.
 
You may very well be right. The timing is based on a post by Amar212 at NeoGAF from a couple of days ago. I believe he gives hints about GT
Thanks for sharing that. I totally forgot about talk of his post and neglected to chase it down. That has to be about GT6 in some form or fashion. I would be way excited, but unfortunately I had to quit GT5 because I'm being attacked by the sleepies, so I guess I'll have to wage war in the Middle East for a while, Desert Combat style.

Well... one more thing. ;)

Laffinassasin-> Funny cause i interpreted Amar's post as : GT6 will be released on PS3 AND PS4...so nobody will be disappointed.
Oh. My. Gosh. If that happens, the nets really will asplode... :D
 
Amar@ NEOGAF

Once the six skip the three
Saving for the four
Question stays about the five
Waiting for some more

Due the fact we knew too much
About the four and five
Six will hide until it can
Kevin Butlers' Jive

It's six step left six step right
Rinse, repeat and wait
The three will get some finger food
And four will celebrate.

I can't even fathom what will happen in the week three weeks from now. The madness will reach unthinkable levels.

It will be glorious, nobody will get out disappointed. Nobody.

I for one trust what Amar says, even if he doesn't post his info here.
 
Yeah... that sounds like some two system stuff there, gotta say. I didn't expect that, but what the heck?

Okay, gotta kill some bad guys in celebration. :D
 
Looks like I gotta (well my wife!) buy a PS4 for my birthday & Christmas gift...

I'm think 5 gets massive DLC and six b 2 4

As we keep dancing left and right in wait. Like a little boy who has to pee! I'm sure you all can remember that little dance :P
 
3u56i2.jpg
 
You may very well be right. The timing is based on a post by Amar212 at NeoGAF from a couple of days ago. I believe he gives hints about GT and posts here.

The post:



Bearing in mind the thread it was posted in, I take that to mean both GT fans and Forza fans will be happy in three weeks.

Whether that means full reveal or teasers..........I'm excited.

If possible, I'd like to have source, please. Thank !
 
I for one trust what Amar says, even if he doesn't post his info here.

I can see why, so much crying in here, especially with the stupid hybrids. >_>

I wasn't around when Amar shared some info about GT5 before others said? Now that I'm here on GTPlanet, I'm so excited about him sharing some info about GT6, I won't miss a thing. :D
 
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