Gran Turismo 6 - DLC Discussion

[Samus]

I'm really curious to see how they'll evolve the "Seasonals" from GT5. If they'll integrate it into A-spec somehow, or even make a whole new game mode with them that's like an evolving A-spec online only career mode that can incorporate DLC.



That's the question I'm asking. PD sold Motegi as Premium DLC, when it was essentially a port, just polished up.

Just because they break it up into multiple doesn't make it worth $5.00/€5.00. That's worth $2.00 imo. Spa was the same price and it was brand new, and it came with Kart Space!

They need to charge less for the PS2 tracks, or combine them. Would you pay $5.00/€5.00 for two legacy tracks, or three?

Exactly. People will make the argument that tracks aren't free to make and the staff need paying but the modellers are getting paid irrespective of what they're doing and obviously the other costs that are associated with creating a real track aren't there. No licensing, no researching etc.

If the fictional legacy tracks were offered in a complete pack for $10 I may be interested but at premium DLC prices, no chance. Not when they've had eight years to get these finished and put on disc.

The modeling team was expanded a year or two ago. Their work will be in various states of completion.

But they already know the tracks won't be finished in time for the disc but they will be finished shortly afterwards to release one a month? I don't buy it.

 

[MeanElf]

...I think that announcing a schedule like this is saying the tracks are ready or will be at the release day, but they will just feed them out for money every month. Kinda crooked in my opinion...

We don't know the pricing schedule yet. Consider how much free stuff came through GT5.

If they have a bunch of old GT classic tracks already finished, then put them in the game! DLC should only be for content that could not be completed in time for the initial release of the game or content created after the release of the game. I won't be supporting a DLC model that is simply in place as a money making scheme.

See above comment - plus remember the subsequent versions of GT5 which came out cheap and with all DLC free, so I don't think PD are really subscribing to that kind of model really. Okay, that will have to be proven, but it is something that has been forgotten apparently.

Game RRP's keep going up with each generation here...

Sony announced yesterday that PS4 games will be the same price as PS3 games - so that is no longer true. Most current games for the PS3 have actually been cheaper than previous releases.

If the DLC tracks are original legacy tracks it will be outrageous. What PD would basically be saying is "We've had nigh on eight years working with the PS3 in which time the old tracks could have been updated. They weren't finished in 2010 to be in GT5, they weren't finished by late 2013 to be in GT6 but would you believe it, just after GT6 is pressed hey presto, the legacy tracks are all finished and ready to go as premium DLC."
that would stink.

A bit melodramatic that. Perhaps you've already heard this argument before, but when I bought CD copies of music I had on album, I didn't expect the CD to be available for free. Work will have gone into updating these tracks, work which will need to be paid for. I think waiting is again, the best policy.

 

[Fusion]

I totally agree, the PS2 tracks, unless fully redone, cannot be sold for the prices of a complete new track. The unfortunate thing is that people want them so much that far too many people would buy them at $5 or even $10ea. That's not fair value though, they need to be around $2 each, or preferably in a pack of 4-5 for $10 at most.

 

[Samus]

A bit melodramatic that. Perhaps you've already heard this argument before, but when I bought CD copies of music I had on album, I didn't expect the CD to be available for free. Work will have gone into updating these tracks, work which will need to be paid for. I think waiting is again, the best policy.

My main point was that they've had eight years to get these tracks updated and they could have then included them on either the GT5 disc or GT6 disc. Are we seriously to believe that the first time in those eight years they've found to update them is in a few months time?

If we aren't to believe that then it suggests the tracks are ready to go on the GT6 disc but are being saved for DLC to earn extra money. Yes work has gone into them but again it's the same fallacy, the modellers are going to get paid no matter what they do or don't do. You can't use that argument for everything they do otherwise nothing would go on the disc, it'd all be premium DLC. They get paid for modelling these tracks when we buy the disc, if they were included.

 

[Griffith500]

...

But they already know the tracks won't be finished in time for the disc but they will be finished shortly afterwards to release one a month? I don't buy it.

You don't have to buy anything. At some point the tracks will go from in-dev to finished. That's a matter of hours at most, a whole month is hardly suspect. EDIT: it's two really for the first one.
It's not clear cut either way. I'd rather they all came on the disc, but we'll be waiting longer for that. We should wait and see what's actually happening before feeling insulted by our imaginings.

 

[Fusion]

Sony announced yesterday that PS4 games will be the same price as PS3 games - so that is no longer true. Most current games for the PS3 have actually been cheaper than previous releases.

All games here (Australia) have a placeholder price of $118 right now. I really hope this isn't the case. Games were $89 in the PS1 era and our dollar was half what it is now back then. Taxes were introduced, but the dollar has gone up. Game prices went up in the US, but they just seem to go up here whenever the retailers feel like it. So yeah, it's not the same here. We pay at least 50% more for console games in RRP, it's just lucky we have deals and competition that occasionally bring new games to well under RRP. With online content, those options don't exist. Right now the local GT5 DLC prices are a non-starter for me. They're twice what I can justify paying for such content.

And yes, I forgot bout the new editions of GT5 retail having all the DLC. I'm glad they did that and I hope it bodes well for their future plans. Unfortunately, I believe that the fans are so starved for content (especially real life and GT classic fictitious tracks) that enough people will buy them at any price, reasonable or not. If they're gauging the prices on what salivating fans will do to get the content they crave, we're going to end up with rip-off DLC.

 

[eran0004]

If the modelling team are so large and efficient that these DLC tracks could be started and finished within months of the game being finished as you seem to be suggesting then why have they seemingly only made 3 - 7 tracks in the last two and a half years? It's not like the modellers will have any other jobs.

They've done a bit more than that in the past 2,5 years:

Motegi
Spa
Kart Space
Route X
Willow Springs
Andalucia course maker scenery
Matterhorn
Silverstone
Special Stage Route 11 (course map included in the GT6 trailer)
Seattle (seen in the Acura NSX Concept trailer)
Apricot Hill (same as above)
Autumn Ring (seems like only minor updates)

+ Gemasolar photomode location
+ Ginza photomode location
+ Siracusa photomode location

And possibly these:

Mount Panorama?
Brands Hatch?
Ascari?

 

[Griffith500]

And anything else yet unannounced.

 

[Samus]

You don't have to buy anything. At some point the tracks will go from in-dev to finished. That's a matter of hours at most, a whole month is hardly suspect.
It's not clear cut either way. I'd rather they all came on the disc, but we'll be waiting longer for that. We should wait and see what's actually happening before feeling insulted by our imaginings.

But how do PD know when these tracks are going to be finished? When they first announced this DLC schedule it was probably five months before the game had to be finished and sent off to pressing. How could they know five months ahead of time that x number of tracks would not be finished on that deadline but they are confident they will be finished mere weeks later for them to be DLC?

They've done a bit more than that in the past 2,5 years:

Motegi
Spa
Kart Space
Route X
Willow Springs
Andalucia course maker scenery
Matterhorn
Silverstone
Special Stage Route 11 (course map included in the GT6 trailer)
Seattle (seen in the Acura NSX Concept trailer)
Apricot Hill (same as above)
Autumn Ring (seems like only minor updates)

+ Gemasolar photomode location
+ Ginza photomode location
+ Siracusa photomode location

And possibly these:

Mount Panorama?
Brands Hatch?
Ascari?

Yes but that's the whole point, with the seven tracks we're told we're getting then it's impossible they're all going to be on the disc. Which means they're purposely being saved for DLC, which was the point I was making.

 

[Samus]

delete.

 

[Griffith500]

But how do PD know when these tracks are going to be finished? When they first announced this DLC schedule it was probably five months before the game had to be finished and sent off to pressing. How could they know five months ahead of time that x number of tracks would not be finished on that deadline but they are confident they will be finished mere weeks later for them to be DLC?

...

Because progress should be tangible to the hour, not days or weeks. They'll have two months' grace for the first batch and there's always more polishing to be done. But if they can't project when they'll finish content, how will they know they can release at all come December?

 

[sems4arsenal]

If they can do a track a month then surely alot of those are touched up GT4 tracks which in my opinion should already be included in the game.

I'm not liking how PD seem to be handling how DLC works,that with Kaz's quotes regarding a Season Pass is worrying ,That's almost EA bad .

 

[HaylRayzor]

One thing is for sure. If you have to pay to play online, and then pay some more for tracks, PD better make this game glitch free and unhackable. Because having your free online experience ruined by hackers and cheaters is one thing. Having your pay-to-play online experience ruined is another thing altogether.

Sony you better have a big ban hammer and a strong arm to swing it. Cheat one time and gone!

 

[AleksandarSRB]

If they can do a track a month then surely alot of those are touched up GT4 tracks which in my opinion should already be included in the game.
.

I agree if they hold some track for DLC is so bad move for PD. They should put all track that are finished on disk. DLC track can't be used in A-spec race, so why I should buy them?? My favorite part of GT game is GTmode.

 

[Samus]

One thing is for sure. If you have to pay to play online, and then pay some more for tracks, PD better make this game glitch free and unhackable. Because having your free online experience ruined by hackers and cheaters is one thing. Having your pay-to-play online experience ruined is another thing altogether.

Sony you better have a big ban hammer and a strong arm to swing it. Cheat one time and gone!

PS3 and Vita online play is staying free.

 

[avens]

People always take the DLC issue as a matter of principles.

I'll have fun instead. Plus I don't cry over $100.

 

[sems4arsenal]

I agree if they hold some track for DLC is so bad move for PD. They should put all track that are finished on disk. DLC track can't be used in A-spec race, so why I should buy them?? My favorite part of GT game is GTmode.

They'll probably keep the seasonals for such occasions ,but I hope they ditch them as well ,seasonal events as a concept is great but the whole rolling start chase the leader with A.I strolling about is about as much fun as Driving the Red Bull X1 (it isn't).

Hope they clear this issue at GC .

 

[MrWednesday]

Oh yeah, I definitely think it's fair to get annoyed when game companies in general hold out on content on purpose to help their financial gain.

While that's true, consider an alternative scenario: the track budget for new GT6 tracks with no DLC would be, say, 7 tracks. Based on the sales of Spa, Motegi, etc, PD concludes that they can make enough selling the tracks to pay for development. Ergo, they start working on the new material alongside GT6 with a plan to stagger release afterwards.

In that case, are they holding on on content purely for financial gain, or does the content owe its existence to the possibility to pay for it on a per-item basis?

 

[Samus]

GT5 sold 10 million copies, even at an average of $30 each that's $300 million in revenue. I don't think PD needed DLC to sell well to cover their costs.

 

[maxpontiac]

GT5 sold 10 million copies, even at an average of $30 each that's $300 million in revenue. I don't think PD needed DLC to sell well to cover their costs.

And your numbers are being modest too.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Here's hoping 300 Million can get you decent sounds for a change /

 

[Tornado]

a) on inclusion of DLC in A-spec:
I don't think DLC tracks will be included in A-spec. They could make some events with them, but if they were to make them part of GT Life, this would make it impossible for someone who doesn't buy the DLC to achieve 100% completion.

Why would it? You get 100% completion when you do all the regular events. When new events are added to take advantage of the DLC, the completion percentage goes down until you do all of those.

 

[atf]

Why would it? You get 100% completion when you do all the regular events. When new events are added to take advantage of the DLC, the completion percentage goes down until you do all of those.

Well, they could let you do the races as a preview of the tracks. They did that with Motegi in the seasonal events and with open lobbies.

 

[GTPorsche]

Not all the money from game sales go to the developer.

 

[omnibusse]

PD needs a bunch of people and 6-10 months per track (ref. to video for article "New Gran Turismo 6 Tracks to Release Monthly as DLC" and refering to the book "Driving the game" which relates to GT4) and they will work on several tracks in parallel.

They definitely won't finish a track in a month between two DLCs. They will have several tracks in the works right now and they will know which ones will be ready in about four months.

To me it does not matter if they save up tracks intentionally or not. I will buy the game if I think it's worth the price and I will buy DLCs if I think it's worth the price they want me to pay. If not, not. Everybody is free to decide on his/her own.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Not all the money from game sales go to the developer.

Yeah I know hence the

 

[MeanElf]

My main point was that they've had eight years to get these tracks updated and they could have then included them on either the GT5 disc or GT6 disc. Are we seriously to believe that the first time in those eight years they've found to update them is in a few months time?

If we aren't to believe that then it suggests the tracks are ready to go on the GT6 disc but are being saved for DLC to earn extra money...

I know what you're saying, however I think PD had it difficult enough with getting GT5 out as it was. All of that extra work on the tracks just wouldn't have been feasible under the circumstances.

As for GT6 - well, not too much time there either, though clearly they have done so, possibly due to far less work being needed on the rest of the game.

Regarding the on-disc thing, I appreciate that it's just an expression, but GT6 Track DLC as far as I remember will be stored and so only accessible from online, ergo: not on your disc.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But how do PD know when these tracks are going to be finished? When they first announced this DLC schedule it was probably five months before the game had to be finished and sent off to pressing. How could they know five months ahead of time that x number of tracks would not be finished on that deadline but they are confident they will be finished mere weeks later for them to be DLC?

Yes but that's the whole point, with the seven tracks we're told we're getting then it's impossible they're all going to be on the disc. Which means they're purposely being saved for DLC, which was the point I was making.

It's a business, that's what businesses do, they maximize revenue. I'm sure they aren't sitting around in meetings saying, "Oh no, if the tracks are ready before the game launches we have to include them or else people will complain on message boards". If you have a moral or ethical objection then don't buy the DLC. If enough people think like you, they'll have to change the way they do business. The market will dictate as it always does.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I say bring them all DLCs, makes for good monthly purchase, at least there will be new contents, as long as they worth the money and interests me - definite buy

 

[daus26]

It's a business, that's what businesses do, they maximize revenue. I'm sure they aren't sitting around in meetings saying, "Oh no, if the tracks are ready before the game launches we have to include them or else people will complain on message boards". If you have a moral or ethical objection then don't buy the DLC. If enough people think like you, they'll have to change the way they do business. The market will dictate as it always does.

I'll agree. Moral and ethical issues definitely need to be voiced, which is why and how Microsoft changed their Xbox One policy completely.

However, I will certainly feel cheated if finished content are being saved for paid DLC. I understand business and the need to make maximum revenue but proper moral and ethics definitely doesn't fit with that type of practice (imo) because that isn't how games have been made before DLC was introduced... finished content goes in the disc period. There has never been a set rule on how much content should be on the discs.

It's just a shame that PD is very restricted with time.