Gran Turismo 6 - DLC Discussion

[Sven4057]

A real qualifing mode would be great with a menu where you can see all the sector times frome yourself and your opponents and time set for the qualifing

 

[dhandeh]

Feels like I'm freakin' talking to myself here, but I have already mentioned that the DLC track will be server based, ergo: not on disc so they can't already be on the disc and then witheld.

Sod this though - I'm done with this.

Where do you get that info from?

 

[Ills1999]

Feels like I'm freakin' talking to myself here, but I have already mentioned that the DLC track will be server based, ergo: not on disc so they can't already be on the disc and then witheld.

Sod this though - I'm done with this.

The objection is the same whether the content is already on disc and unlocked or already created at launch and kept off disc to be trickled out over time.

 

[machschnel]

have already mentioned that the DLC track will be server based, ergo: not on disc so they can't already be on the disc and then witheld.

Are you implying that Polyphony haven't produced said DLC tracks yet? And that they will completely finish one track in a month time frame?

Because I think withheld means something different to what you think it does....

 

[dr_slump]

Regarding the on-disc thing, I appreciate that it's just an expression, but GT6 Track DLC as far as I remember will be stored and so only accessible from online, ergo: not on your disc.

You seriously think DLC tracks won't be downloaded via patch and saved on the HDD (or SSD if you want) of everyones PS3? REALLY?
Online streaming won't happen, forget it. Not for this gen at least.

 

[Gejabo]

It's the real driving simulator.

Real driving occurs on streets.

Excactly, I can do that every day, don't need a game for that

 

[analog]

Excactly, I can do that every day, don't need a game for that

You have access to all the cars in GT in real life every day? You're a lucky guy, I still need a game to drive for example a Miura or Dino on the street.

 

[Fusion]

Things are getting a bit off topic here.

Here's my main question regarding track DLC: If they could only make 3-7 new tracks in 3 years, how can they make 1 track a month for DLC?

My possible answers:
1) They hired a lot more track designers x year(s) ago
1a) They have a lot of tracks in the pipeline at various stages
2) They plan to release an upscaled GT3/4 track whenever they can't make a deadline with an all new track
3) They are withholding a lot of finished tracks from release to make more money from them as DLC

Honestly I do think it is more of 1 and 2 than 3. But we still need to be wary that they don't ever think that option 3 is okay in any way. With regard to 2, the fairness of that depends on the quality of the track compared to its made for PS3 counterparts as well as the price they charge for it. If it's not up to the quality of a PS3 track (lower res textures, lower poly track surfaces, lower detail scenery) then they really shouldn't be charging full price for it, whatever the demand for said track is.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Things are getting a bit off topic here.

Here's my main question regarding track DLC: If they could only make 3-7 new tracks in 3 years, how can they make 1 track a month for DLC?

My possible answers:
1) They hired a lot more track designers x year(s) ago
1a) They have a lot of tracks in the pipeline at various stages
2) They plan to release an upscaled GT3/4 track whenever they can't make a deadline with an all new track
3) They are withholding a lot of finished tracks from release to make more money from them as DLC

Honestly I do think it is more of 1 and 2 than 3. But we still need to be wary that they don't ever think that option 3 is okay in any way. With regard to 2, the fairness of that depends on the quality of the track compared to its made for PS3 counterparts as well as the price they charge for it. If it's not up to the quality of a PS3 track (lower res textures, lower poly track surfaces, lower detail scenery) then they really shouldn't be charging full price for it, whatever the demand for said track is.

How exactly will you know if they are withholding tracks at release, and how will you do anything about it if they do. Would you not buy Bathurst if it's DLC one month in?

I'm fairly certain all the new tracks will be good quality. Real world tracks may take a long time but I think their own fantasy tracks can easily be ready to go in a month. Most of it will be cutting and pasting curbs, barriers, trees, scenery etc. There is no real world accuracy to worry about, you can basically copy and paste snippets of other tracks if you want including the surface variations or just program in some random variations.

 

[dr_slump]

I hope the DLCs won't be that expensive then. Or at least give us some sort of premium service as in BF3.

I'm a big fan of GT, but I really don't want to pay more for DLCs than I did for the game.

 

[Johnnypenso]

And I just discovered that Kaz agrees with me above:

“But I think that, for myself, that’s not enough. I would like to see more fantasy tracks, and I think we will make more fantasy tracks in the future as well, and bring up the level of the tracks so they are more photo realistic, so it’s fantasy but looks real.”

 

[Fusion]

How exactly will you know if they are withholding tracks at release, and how will you do anything about it if they do. Would you not buy Bathurst if it's DLC one month in?

It really varies depending on the content they release. If Bathurst was released one month in and was downloaded in an update at that time, not already on the disk, I would probably be okay with it. Modelling real world tracks takes a lot of time and games have to go gold months before release, I appreciate that. If they suddenly release a PS2 track that is poorly adapted to PS3 and charge full price for it, then that's just inexcusable. Clearly they could have converted these tracks at any time, but are doing so now as a way to make extra money. It could be a quality issue, that they don't want poor quality PS2 assets as part of the main game but instead optional DLC for those who really want it, but that kinda flies in the face of their policy with both tracks and cars so far.

I'm fairly certain all the new tracks will be good quality. Real world tracks may take a long time but I think their own fantasy tracks can easily be ready to go in a month. Most of it will be cutting and pasting curbs, barriers, trees, scenery etc. There is no real world accuracy to worry about, you can basically copy and paste snippets of other tracks if you want including the surface variations or just program in some random variations.

Exactly, and I have no problem paying the same amount for a fantasy track even if the time that has gone into it pales in comparison to a real world track. That's not my assessment of value at all. Quality and quantity is my assessment for the value of DLC - as it should be, not desirability - I feel like that is a flawed measurement that doesn't represent actual value.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It really varies depending on the content they release. If Bathurst was released one month in and was downloaded in an update at that time, not already on the disk, I would probably be okay with it.

And if for some reason you think it's already on the disk but released as DLC after launch what will you do?

 

[Fusion]

Not buy it? What are you trying to get at, that we are just powerless consumer pawns and must swallow whatever the gaming dev gods try to feed us? This is exactly what I'm getting at, for DLC, basing price on demand is a flawed and unjustified measure of value.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Not buy it? What are you trying to get at, that we are just powerless consumer pawns and must swallow whatever the gaming dev gods try to feed us? This is exactly what I'm getting at, for DLC, basing price on demand is a flawed and unjustified measure of value.

Measure of value for whom? PD puts out a product at a given price. If you think it has value for you, you buy it, if not, you don't. You don't have to swallow anything. Buy what you want, don't buy what you don't want. If anyone wants to complain about it they are free to do so here, at the Playstation site, or wherever.

Pretty simple. No one is forcing you to do anything including the original purchase of the game. An intelligent consumer however, thinks ahead. If I buy this game, but don't buy the DLC, will I still be able to enjoy the game with my online racing friends 6 months or a year down the road, if they have the DLC and I don't? If the answer is yes, then you need not worry about whether buying DLC will affect your future enjoyment.

However, if owning DLC is a prerequisite to maintaining your online racing associations, then you know going in that buying the original game is pretty much locking you into buying the DLC.

 

[Tornado]

Considering how much of a ghost town all of the DLC was in GT5 after they turned off the grace period, I would be very surprised if buying the DLC was a prerequisite for anything unless they change how it is implemented.

 

[Fusion]

Measure of value for whom? PD puts out a product at a given price. If you think it has value for you, you buy it, if not, you don't. You don't have to swallow anything. Buy what you want, don't buy what you don't want. If anyone wants to complain about it they are free to do so here, at the Playstation site, or wherever.

Pretty simple. No one is forcing you to do anything including the original purchase of the game. An intelligent consumer however, thinks ahead. If I buy this game, but don't buy the DLC, will I still be able to enjoy the game with my online racing friends 6 months or a year down the road, if they have the DLC and I don't? If the answer is yes, then you need not worry about whether buying DLC will affect your future enjoyment.

However, if owning DLC is a prerequisite to maintaining your online racing associations, then you know going in that buying the original game is pretty much locking you into buying the DLC.

And that's the exact reason that if they really do care about fair practice they should include everything they can on disk. To make the core experience great. Relying on the fact that they can just release it later for DLC makes the value of the initial game purchase weaker. When the value of DLC is so weak to begin with, what we end up with is very poor value compared to the GT's yesteryears where DLC didn't exist.

Sure, I can then decide not to buy the game, but I'd like to buy the game as I see it should be so yes, I should complain about that - which is what I'm doing, preemptively in the hope that it it stops them from making the wrong decisions in the first place.

My assessment of basing pricing on demand being flawed comes from the fact that it is this very demand of the content that is the main selling point for the item. The caveat should always be quality and quantity before overall desirability. With the current demand for certain assets they could easily be tempted to half bake content simply because the income vs. development cost ratio would be far higher. That is not what I want from any of my favorite game series so I am apposed to pricing being structured based solely on demand.

 

[dr_slump]

Considering how much of a ghost town all of the DLC was in GT5 after they turned off the grace period, I would be very surprised if buying the DLC was a prerequisite for anything unless they change how it is implemented.

But how many people would still buy it if they allow everybody to drive on those tracks online as long as the host has it?

Or is there another way?

 

[Fusion]

But how many people would still buy it if they allow everybody to drive on those tracks online as long as the host has it?

Or is there another way?

I think the best way is to have something like the seasonal events but for actual online vs. play.

Have open rooms setup with one certain race type for that track. Impose fairly limiting restrictions like in the seasonal events or even make it a single make/model race. If they want to setup their own room with different or no restrictions or practice the track offline, they have to buy it.

This way it's like an online demo of the track. You can race it online, but only with certain car(s) under certain limitations and in a very public room.

 

[Tornado]

Some sort of single player content with the tracks (and ideally, the cars too) needs to be included regardless. If they want to use that single player stuff as the carrot and the ability of host events for everyone (whether they bought it or not) as the stick, or if they want to just make the DLC more appealing in general with a wide variety of single player content while keeping the grace period system GT5 used so they still have appeal when online dies down; either way the "we'll let everyone try it for a bit" system didn't work. The tracks had tons of value while the grace periods were in effect (no matter how much certain people want to argue that the value was diminished by letting others use them), and as soon as it stopped the only one that didn't become practically useless was Route X.

 

[maxpontiac]

Some sort of single player content with the tracks (and ideally, the cars too) needs to be included regardless.

I can agree with this sentence 100%. I would settle for several seasonal type events using various Performance Point and vehicle perimeters.

They do something like this, I can see myself dropping a ton of money on the Track DLC.👍

 

[ZZ-II]

A real qualifing mode would be great with a menu where you can see all the sector times frome yourself and your opponents and time set for the qualifing

True, very good idea!

 

[Gejabo]

You have access to all the cars in GT in real life every day? You're a lucky guy, I still need a game to drive for example a Miura or Dino on the street.

Haha no, you are right I don't.
But still, going slow and following traffic regulatations is really my idea of fun.

 

[Griffith500]

Mini expansion packs? Yes.

 

[ZZ-II]

If they give us at least one new track per month over just one year we would have more than enough tracks to drive .
And i hope all of these tracks will be included in GT7!

With all old original tracks included they could 100% focus on new tracks.
I really hope this will become true .
At least beating the number of tracks in GT4 would be very good for GT6!

 

[omnibusse]

... and we would have paid approx. 60 bucks for 12+ tracks, i.e. double the price of the game.

 

[VQuick]

I'm pretty excited for GT6 but one thing that has been bugging me is all the DLC they keep talking about.

Sure, the game will be supported and that's great but A track a month? For how long? and my biggest gripe...

why DLC? How come some of these tracks aren't just included in the game. I know it's because they want more money but I think it's pretty lame there are only 4 new tracks in the game (correct me if I'm wrong) and what..the rest are DLC?

Would have been nice to have more tracks included with the game itself.

Because they probably aren't ready yet, and few feel like waiting another year or two for that. It's not like they'll be releasing a track one month, then go on to start creating next month's track.

It's well-known that tracks take a considerable amount of time to build, even for other developers, and GT6 will likely be going gold and launching with the tracks that are finished. PD will continue working on others, and they will be released as DLC.

There's always something new to work on, whether it be cars or tracks. PD has to draw a line somewhere and decide to actually stop development and release a game. Otherwise, they could end up making a game with '3,000 cars, 200 tracks and counting...' but never release it.

 

[maxpontiac]

... and we would have paid approx. 60 bucks for 12+ tracks, i.e. double the price of the game.

Yes. If that is what you choose to do. No one will be forced to buy anything...

 

[TokoTurismo]

Yes. If that is what you choose to do. No one will be forced to buy anything...

Funny how people usually forget about that, if I'm honest.

 

[masterrawad]

No, we obviously need more veyrons and porsches