Gran Turismo 6 - DLC Discussion

[Johnnypenso]

I'll agree. Moral and ethical issues definitely need to be voiced, which is why and how Microsoft changed their Xbox One policy completely.

However, I will certainly feel cheated if finished content are being saved for paid DLC. I understand business and the need to make maximum revenue but proper moral and ethics definitely doesn't fit with that type of practice (imo) because that isn't how games have been made before DLC was introduced... finished content goes in the disc period. There has never been a set rule on how much content should be on the discs.

It's just a shame that PD is very restricted with time.

The moral or ethical nature of this is from the standpoint of the consumer, not PD or Sony. Their only obligation is to the shareholders. In the long run they'll maximize returns by maximizing customer satisfaction, but I dare say none of us know what is and isn't finished in time for release and we never will know for sure. How can you object to something you know nothing about?

 

[MeanElf]

All games here (Australia) have a placeholder price of $118 right now. I really hope this isn't the case. Games were $89 in the PS1 era and our dollar was half what it is now back then. Taxes were introduced, but the dollar has gone up. Game prices went up in the US, but they just seem to go up here whenever the retailers feel like it. So yeah, it's not the same here. We pay at least 50% more for console games in RRP, it's just lucky we have deals and competition that occasionally bring new games to well under RRP. With online content, those options don't exist. Right now the local GT5 DLC prices are a non-starter for me. They're twice what I can justify paying for such content.

And yes, I forgot bout the new editions of GT5 retail having all the DLC. I'm glad they did that and I hope it bodes well for their future plans. Unfortunately, I believe that the fans are so starved for content (especially real life and GT classic fictitious tracks) that enough people will buy them at any price, reasonable or not. If they're gauging the prices on what salivating fans will do to get the content they crave, we're going to end up with rip-off DLC.

Sorry, I didn't see your reply earlier. I know about the difference in games prices in AU and NZ - though in fairness, that more the fault of the retailers than Sony. I do believe there is a big campaign running presently to get this stopped.

I still think the PD DLC ethos is more towards we'll provide, if enough interest is being shown, rather than "if you pay it, we'll bring more and more." I know it seems like a fine distinction, but they never struck me as being greedy, certainly considering how so much additional content in GT5 has been free of charge.

 

[Samus]

It's a business, that's what businesses do, they maximize revenue. I'm sure they aren't sitting around in meetings saying, "Oh no, if the tracks are ready before the game launches we have to include them or else people will complain on message boards". If you have a moral or ethical objection then don't buy the DLC. If enough people think like you, they'll have to change the way they do business. The market will dictate as it always does.

All true, I certainly will vote with my wallet personally but I do find it funny how over the years so many GT fans have bashed T10 and their DLC practices, branded them and MS moneygrabbers and said that PD would never do what they do because Kaz respects the fans etc etc.

Now here we are with PD doing exactly the same, talking about monthly DLC the day the game is announced and are the GT fans up in arms about it as they were with T10? No, most are saying they'll be happy to buy them.

No wonder PD can get away with things like one use paint DLC.

 

[machschnel]

If you have a moral or ethical objection then don't buy the DLC.

It's not as simple as that though.

Will it split the online community?

Will DLC tracks be used throughout A-Spec?

If not already on disc, how will players with low bandwidth get to play the new tracks (or people without the internet for that matter)?

Will tracks be touched up "standards"?

My major concern with DLC has always been the above. I'd like everyone to be playing the same game and getting the full experience from launch. Not much to ask you'd think.

 

[Imari]

Now here we are with PD doing exactly the same, talking about monthly DLC the day the game is announced and are the GT fans up in arms about it as they were with T10? No, most are saying they'll be happy to buy them.

I think it's slightly worse, actually. If you're gonna offer substantial amounts of DLC, car packs are the way to go. People who don't buy the DLC are then capable of racing against those that do. No division of community. Forza got it right, although they seem to keep trying with at least one track per release.

Track packs mean the haves can't race the have nots. Multiple track packs make this worse and worse. It fragments the community. Does Friend A have this track? Does Friend C? GT has it wrong, in this situation.

Or maybe they don't have it wrong, if they're intending to use peer pressure to sell the maximum amount of DLC possible. But it sort of feels kind of dirty forcing sales like that, instead of on the merits of the content.

 

[Griffith500]

I think most of us "long-timers" who remember fully compartmentalised game releases and thought nothing of it (although there was always patching on PC) would be disappointed if things really were as shady as some fear. But games are a lot more complicated now, work takes longer, so there are potentially larger gaps between releases.

I think that if extra content was offered for those older games, most of us would've happily accepted it, especially if it were free (PC patches again).
The only way extra content really worked in the past was through the expansion pack, but that was complicated in itself and not always good value.

I think it's great that content is so easy to add now, but that question of value will always remain. I initially took solace at the canning of GTHD's microtransactions, Kaz's reticence to offer DLC for GT5, and his initial surprise that so many people were happy at spending more money when DLC did come. Part of his argument had always been the value that a GT game represents.

 

[Samus]

I think for most people the main issue with DLC is when it was planned and produce. In its infancy DLC was usually always something created after the game shipped and sold as a premium add on to the full game. Now we've got DLC for many games that feels like it was purposely cut from the full game to sell at a premium price later on or even worse, pre order DLC. With a game like GRID 2 there is no assumptions required, clearly all that content was ready for the disc but they chose to offer it in a way that gains maximum revenue.

You can't really blame them, any wise business owner would realise and do the same but at the same time they must realise why many gamers feel annoyed. In the past it felt like 100% game + 10% extra premium DLC. Now for many games it feels like 90% game and 10% premium DLC.

 

[Ills1999]

It's a business, that's what businesses do, they maximize revenue. I'm sure they aren't sitting around in meetings saying, "Oh no, if the tracks are ready before the game launches we have to include them or else people will complain on message boards". If you have a moral or ethical objection then don't buy the DLC. If enough people think like you, they'll have to change the way they do business. The market will dictate as it always does.

I'm glad to see a little evolution here. I will point out that persuading other would-be consumers, organizing boycotts, is a completely legitimate course of action. The chattering on the internet is part of that.

Think of it as word-of-mouth advertising against a product.

Or maybe they don't have it wrong, if they're intending to use peer pressure to sell the maximum amount of DLC possible. But it sort of feels kind of dirty forcing sales like that, instead of on the merits of the content.

There's no 'maybe' about it.

 

[Fusion]

The problem with basing pricing on consumer demand is that the consumers feel starved for content because of the huge delay with GT5 in the first place, and then the subsequent lack of it delivering the content people desired. If they suddenly released some of the most desired cars and tracks for unreasonable prices, you bet enough people would still be foaming at the mouth and buy them anyway. Releasing classic GT4 tracks for $5 is a less extreme example of this. Unless they are completely overhauled from scratch, they shouldn't really worth that much - but people will buy it. Imagine a BWM E30 or Porsche for $10, millions would buy it, is that a reasonable price though? Hell no.

I do have faith in PD, Kaz's recent interviews show that he still has the right idea about what to deliver and is cautious to deliver it fairly, but there still seems to be a disconnection between them and the community. The model of demand dictating price just doesn't work when you cut off or under-deliver on the supply before re-introducing it. It's amazing what you could get someone with money to pay for a slice of bread if they haven't eaten for 3 days.

 

[dr_slump]

I don't think millions would buy them for 10$ each...

 

[Fusion]

Ok fine, that's a bit extreme, $5 then. That's still too steep for a single car, but if it were a single car everyone has really wanted in GT for a long time it could easily give them the wrong impression of how to charge for DLC fairly. To a lesser extent, I believe this is what has already happened with GT5 DLC being slightly overpriced BUT highly desired because of the lacking content on release.

 

[Prototyp3]

I'm pretty excited for GT6 but one thing that has been bugging me is all the DLC they keep talking about.

Sure, the game will be supported and that's great but A track a month? For how long? and my biggest gripe...

why DLC? How come some of these tracks aren't just included in the game. I know it's because they want more money but I think it's pretty lame there are only 4 new tracks in the game (correct me if I'm wrong) and what..the rest are DLC?

Would have been nice to have more tracks included with the game itself.

 

[pritchardqs]

It would be nice if there was a miniature city "open world" track to drive around.

 

[Gejabo]

It would be nice if there was a miniature city "open world" track to drive around.

I think Kaz said clearlly that it is a closed cours racegame.

Can't really remember what interview

 

[pritchardqs]

I just don't get it since it's called "the real driving simulator" not "the real racing simulator."

 

[snowgt]

It would be nice if there was a miniature city "open world" track to drive around.

To do ... what? But then, I never understood the appeal of free roam.

 

[Griffith500]

To do ... what? But then, I never understood the appeal of free roam.

Drive.

 

[Eks]

I'd like at least 5 cars a month and maybe some tracks every 3-6 months. I'd say $5-$8 for cars and $10 and up for tracks depending on how many and how good.

 

[theofilosz]

3 euro for a single layout track. Maybe 5-6 if it has other layouts too.

For a car pack 5 cars for 3 euro is ok. And so is 6 euro for 10 cars.

My whine is why euro=dollar???? It's 1,31 stronger....

 

[ZZ-II]

I want to see a "classic track pack" with some of the old/lost tracks from GT4 and before!

 

[Sven4057]

These track are all stretch on the cd with spa and the other new tracks was the same you only have to activate it the download size was only a couple of kilobytes sorry for bad english

 

[Samus]

These track are all stretch on the cd with spa and the other new tracks was the same you only have to activate it the download size was only a couple of kilobytes sorry for bad english

Spa and all other DLC was in the update file downloads, not on disc.

 

[Sven4057]

Spa and all other DLC was in the update file downloads, not on disc.

you're right I have not thought about it but still think they have the most tracks ready when they bring out gt7

 

[Samus]

So do I but I don't think they're going to go as far as having them on the disc ready to unlock just yet.

 

[snowgt]

3 euro for a single layout track. Maybe 5-6 if it has other layouts too.

For a car pack 5 cars for 3 euro is ok. And so is 6 euro for 10 cars.

My whine is why euro=dollar???? It's 1,31 stronger....

US prices are without tax. So there's most of the difference right there. And when the difference is a mere 20 cents or so, they will round up.

 

[snowgt]

Drive.

Uhm, isn't the basic concept of a game to use some form of skill to achieve some sort of goal? Seems to me "just driving around" is more like having a computer to watch the screensaver.

But that's just me. I don't have to understand everything.

 

[analog]

Uhm, isn't the basic concept of a game to use some form of skill to achieve some sort of goal? Seems to me "just driving around" is more like having a computer to watch the screensaver.

But that's just me. I don't have to understand everything.

I often just drive around in Free Practice on a number of tracks without any goal whatsoever, just enjoying driving the car.
That screensaver example is something I don't understand however, when driving you actually play the game (or use the game) instead of watching it passively, that would be staring at the GT-Life menu.
GT has never been just about achieving certain goals for me, it's a platform that allows me to enjoy cars virtually as well, and enjoyment is all the goal I need.

 

[pritchardqs]

It's the real driving simulator.

Real driving occurs on streets.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

Uhm, isn't the basic concept of a game to use some form of skill to achieve some sort of goal? Seems to me "just driving around" is more like having a computer to watch the screensaver.

But that's just me. I don't have to understand everything.

I play GT to drive. Driving is my goal. You seem to be implying driving without racing involves only taking grandma to the grocery store and is therefore pointless. While I see it as a challenge if I'm racing my ghost. I don't mean to patronize you but improving lap times involves skill.

 

[MeanElf]

Feels like I'm freakin' talking to myself here, but I have already mentioned that the DLC track will be server based, ergo: not on disc so they can't already be on the disc and then witheld.

Sod this though - I'm done with this.