Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)

[CarBastard]

This. A good number of cars drove strange for no reason. The Enzo and R10, even with their long wheelbases, felt like limos in the turns. They weren't responsive enough for what they were.

In my opinion, the Enzo and the R10 were completely different animals.

The enzo was very twitchy under braking but the reason behind that is that you usually approach corners much faster than what you think and the car is still on road tyres. You have to brake with a lot of anticipation and in a complete straight line and you'll be fine. I find it challenging and somewhat realistic, the car is a handful but one that can be handled if you're careful. The thing is that it's hard to get a sens of speed in a game if you don't have a lot of camera movement or a speedometer you can read clearly, your butt, the epicenter of automotive sensitivity, doesn't feel a thing.

The R10 is the entire opposite. It drives like 🤬 and it's not a simple matter of driving carefully, the car is just poorly modelled. It saddens me deeply because it's the car I expected the most in GT5 and it looks gorgeous, yet it's one of the worst cars in game. It drives like it had no downforce, it sounds absolutely wrong and it spins it's tyres way too easily. It feels like a boat in the corners, even when you come in slowly. PD had no idea what they were doing at all when making the R10 👎. It feels like it drives on ice compared to the 908 which, despite being somewhat comparable, is million miles better (even though the results at La Sarthe say otherwise! ).

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Exactly, it's as if PD don't believe in updating their tracks due to the extra work, but that is insulting to us players. With most of us being hard core race fans like Kaz you'd think that avid track updates that make is comparable to today and not 5-10 years ago (Monaco mock) would be seen. I rather PD just say something in like with *Laguna Seca (circa)" like Fuji.

If they get around to updating any tracks, I'd sure like to see the older version left in the game, but my gut tells me Kaz will see the old version as a sort of pimple on the game and leave it out.

I think it would be the opposite more so than the way you put it. It'd be nice if they did both but I think they'll keep the older versions and claim they don't have time to update tracks already in the game.

 

[MrWednesday]

Unless I'm mistaken, a compound that's good for 50,000 miles would be considered hard in GT5.

I've argued before that what makes "sense" is for SS to be ~40 UTQG treadwear rating DOT slicks, SM to be ~80-140 TW R-compound tires, and SH to be ~180-220 TW "extreme summer" tires, with the comfort range starting around 300 TW and going up from there.

In practice, based on what's reported for how cars behave relative to their stock form, I'd guess that GT5 is functionally shifted by about a level from where I think it ought to be, that what I think makes sense as SH is closer to how CS actually performs in-game.

Maybe Racing Hards are like they're represented in Gran Turismo, but I have a feeling the real world versions are a little more like my Dunlops in feel.

I've never driven real racing slicks myself, but the story that I hear is that they communicate a lot less than DOT tires and the transition from grip to high-performance slip to loss of control slip is a lot more abrupt.

I find driving in GT to be different than driving in real life, but I put a lot of that down to having a lot fewer sensory cues as to what the car is doing. I can feel the car I track IRL spinning its wheels a lot more easily than I can in GT, and I lose the car a lot more easily in GT than I do IRL where I can just feather the throttle to hold the engine RPMs steady.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Anyone went to Goodwood and can comment on the newest demo? I noticed the grass physics are alot different than the GTA demo, in the most recent video, the GTR went into the grass sideways and the tires sort of dug in to the soil,caused the car to slightly make a tipping motion before resting on all fours, instead of skating on top of the grass like GTA. Definitely seems to be a big improvement. Like what we saw with the RX7 TC from the E3 trailer.

I had a very quick go on it in the Alfa booth, using the 2013 Alfa Zagato thing and it does feel better than the Academy demo, or well it felt it to me in the 57 seconds I was playing it.

disappointed graphics wise, incredibly jerky and jagged.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I find driving in GT to be different than driving in real life, but I put a lot of that down to having a lot fewer sensory cues as to what the car is doing. I can feel the car I track IRL spinning its wheels a lot more easily than I can in GT, and I lose the car a lot more easily in GT than I do IRL where I can just feather the throttle to hold the engine RPMs steady.

In general, that factor is why many of us prefer the tire physics in FM4, where the slip/grip ratio seems to have a more realistic, or IRL feel.

 

[Tornado]

The car that you use for the opening tutorial thing in the demo. It's a stock 370z, but does it have better tires than the regular one you use?

The more I drive the stock one, the more the one in the tutorial seemed to grip a lot better in comparison (and there's also a lot more suspension action as a result). I want to say that it is the Tuned 370z tires on the stock 370z, but I'm not sure.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

I had a very quick go on it in the Alfa booth, using the 2013 Alfa Zagato thing and it does feel better than the Academy demo, or well it felt it to me in the 57 seconds I was playing it.

disappointed graphics wise, incredibly jerky and jagged.

Did it feel like the Alfa 8C?

 

[Tenacious D]

In general, that factor is why many of us prefer the tire physics in FM4, where the slip/grip ratio seems to have a more realistic, or IRL feel.

I would go along with this. I've come to the conclusion after doing a February race off against GT5, F4, the GTRs and Live For Speed that Forza goes the opposite way that Gran Turismo traditionally rendered tire dynamics. The consensus is that GT uses a good Street/Comfort tire model and use a grip multiplier to calculate dynamics for higher grades. To me, it seems in Forza that they use racing tires as the foundation and do a grip divider to calculate the lower grades. I do prefer the more distinct grip loss in Forza.

Doing tire modeling which is both realistic and efficient is supposed to be a bear to get right. If not for the work Yokohama is doing with PD, I'd say a merging of GT and Forza models would be almost ideal.

 

[Stephanos82]

The leaf feels like it's going to tip over, and no matter how hard i tried i could get it to 3 wheel into or out of a corner..

You mean you could lift the wheel or you couldn't?? Personally, I have punished that leaf so much but I couln't get it to lift a wheel! Anyone thathas managed to and got it on replay?

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

You mean you could lift the wheel or you couldn't?? Personally, I have punished that leaf so much but I couln't get it to lift a wheel! Anyone thathas managed to and got it on replay?

To be honest,It feels like it's impossible to get the leaf to three wheel, no matter how fast you go


Also this.



Look at that, it's gorgeous.

 

[Stephanos82]

To be honest,It feels like it's impossible to get the leaf to three wheel, no matter how fast you go


Also this.



Look at that, it's gorgeous.

That pic is an old chestnut.. I'm conveinced that the physics model in GTA isn't capable of that..

 

[J-KiLLA24]

That pic is an old chestnut.. I'm conveinced that the physics model in GTA isn't capable of that..

Maybe not in the demo, but we'll have to see if the story remains with the full game.

 

[Imari]

maybe not in the demo, but we'll have to see if the story remains with the full game.

Placeholdaaaar!

 

[J-KiLLA24]

Placeholdaaaar!

It was only a matter of time

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

That pic is an old chestnut.. I'm conveinced that the physics model in GTA isn't capable of that..

I'm aware that it's old, still glorious, i love that gif what car is doing looks very life like, though i have not seen something like that in the demo.

 

[Cosbuster]

Maybe it was a glitch and they said "hey, that looks cool, let's put it in the trailer and and let peole scratch their heads".

 

[another_jakhole]

Maybe it was a glitch and they said "hey, that looks cool, let's put it in the trailer and and let peole scratch their heads".

What was a glitch? A car's wheels lifting off the ground after forcing a car into a "jump". No, we could do that in GT5. If you haven't realized the fact, the GT6 GT Academy demo the PSN got isn't what people have been seeing everywhere else. It's not nearly as optimized to say the least about it.

 

[Cosbuster]

What was a glitch? A car's wheels lifting off the ground after forcing a car into a "jump". No, we could do that in GT5.

No, what looked like a hint of tyre deformation. Plus, the way it lifts is quite different than the way it does in GT5.

If you haven't realized the fact, the GT6 GT Academy demo the PSN got isn't what people have been seeing everywhere else. It's not nearly as optimized to say the least about it.

Did I say it was the same? We still don't have nearly enough hard evidence to suggest that what was shown in the trailer is indeed possible or that the physics in those demos are severely improved compared to what we got. Lastly, I wasn't being 100% serious.

 

[another_jakhole]

No, what looked like a hint of tyre deformation. Plus, the way it lifts is quite different than the way it does in GT5.

Pretty sure people have only mentioned tire deformation about the Z4 GT3 car? And I was thinking the gif of the Alpine's jump was about how smooth/natural it looked combined with the suspension model.

Did I say it was the same? We still don't have nearly enough hard evidence to suggest that what was shown in the trailer is indeed possible or that the physics in those demos are severely improved compared to what we got. Lastly, I wasn't being 100% serious.

All right, then...about the 100% serious bit.

The physics AREN'T the same, the fidelity of the graphics or frame-rate AREN'T the same. Talk to or find an article about someone who went to E3, or to the Goodwood FoS, and find out if I'm pulling nonsense out of a dark place . FYI, that's how I came to this conclusion and didn't speak anything about it before I got enough "information".

 

[Tenacious D]

The video from whence I snatched my avatar says that the physics and car models have been seriously reworked, so I really don't get the doom n gloom from some of you, as a_jak says. Trying to convince us that we're not seeing what we're really seeing, or experiencing in the GT Academy TT, isn't going to fly very far with us.

 

[Stephanos82]

No doom and gloom here! I love that gif as well, and pointed out the obvious by saying gta isn't up to par with that! And if gt6 doesn't turn out like it, then, thank god for LFS and Asseto Corsa

 

[Spagetti69]

The video from whence I snatched my avatar says that the physics and car models have been seriously reworked, so I really don't get the doom n gloom from some of you, as a_jak says. Trying to convince us that we're not seeing what we're really seeing, or experiencing in the GT Academy TT, isn't going to fly very far with us.

I drove the GTR for 20 odd continuous laps on grand valley and it understeer we like a pig. Very similar to GT5 in that regard.

The tuned GTR at Silverstone is a great ride though. Ill give it that.

 

[another_jakhole]

I drove the GTR for 20 odd continuous laps on grand valley and it understeer we like a pig. Very similar to GT5 in that regard.

The tuned GTR at Silverstone is a great ride though. Ill give it that.

Wait, you were at Goodwood? Glasgow? I'm not exactly skeptical, but the FoS and the Glasgow demo's were the same ones and only had the hill climb from Goodwood.

Either way, the GT-R in the time trial understeers when you lift off, but when you give it gas, it drives a lot smoother. And I didn't realize the GT-R in the time trial was tuned. What the hell? You're getting to me! :/

 

[Spagetti69]

Wait, you were at Goodwood? Glasgow? I'm not exactly skeptical, but the FoS and the Glasgow demo's were the same ones and only had the hill climb from Goodwood.

Either way, the GT-R in the time trial understeers when you lift off, but when you give it gas, it drives a lot smoother. And I didn't realize the GT-R in the time trial was tuned. What the hell? You're getting to me! :/

I'm talking a out the time trial. The academy GTR on Silverstone has a race suspension setup. The Grand valley race has a softer setup. Stock I imagine.

Are we considering the GTA demo to be representative of GT6 or has that been debunked as placeholder or not indicative of GT6?

Edit. Or are you wondering how I drove 20 laps continuous at grand valley in the demo?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

We can drive GTR at Grand Valley in the GTA demo ?

 

[Spagetti69]

We can drive GTR at Grand Valley in the GTA demo ?

370z my bad face palm. Lol. Anyway it feels understeery to me.

 

[another_jakhole]

Then the 370z feels like it has understeer to me, too. The tuned version is without a doubt better considering its setup. The understeer of the 370z comes from the suspension setup and LSD settings (I can't remember how the gear ratios were though, soooo...?), considering the power it has which is more than enough to be an oversteery kind of car. May be obvious, but I'm just saying.

On another note, the GT-R seems like it's definitely how it should be. I didn't know it until I saw the first review of the GTR on Fifth Gear a couple of days ago, but the GT-R is an oversteering handful when pushing it. It's totally lacking that in GT5.

 

[Griffith500]

370z my bad face palm. Lol. Anyway it feels understeery to me.

DS3? If so, I'd agree. It's much better on a wheel, but that might just be because you can feed it steering angle at a more sensible rate. Classic FR, then?

 

[Spagetti69]

DS3? If so, I'd agree. It's much better on a wheel, but that might just be because you can feed it steering angle at a more sensible rate. Classic FR, then?

No wheel user. The FR pendulum effect, understeer/oversteer is non existant. If anything it's classic FF, understeer city.
Feels very GT5 on that particular track, Grand Valley. Frame rate in cockpit is super smooth here too, oddly. Considering SilverStone is a bit ropey.

Edit to add. If the wheel portrayed and lack of grip or progressive lack of grip it would help matters.

 

[Griffith500]

Well, I've not touched it for a while, but that's not how I remember it. Strange.