Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)

[Stephanos82]

One of the coolest things was being out on track during the GT Academy and going back into racecamp and practicing techniques you just learned and having it feel near identical.

Omg! Can you please elaborate a bit on this? Your words have brough forth the most exciting news I've heard since E3!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Some more good news from GT6's Bathurst :

I owe this website a LOT. Trust me. I refresh GTP probably above 20 times a day on every device and I have contributed nothing to it! So at least I feel a bit better now!

It's really hard to give a solid answer without having a racing background and only having two nervous laps under my belt. If you look over at my YT channel there is a video of my driving it in my normal road car, I'll tell you the track feels a lot bigger when you're on it.

But that is highly likely a product of me driving it in a mid-size Hyundai at 60 km/h rather than a GT3 car at 100. I've raced Bathurst on rFactor, GRiD, Project CARS and Simbin's 'RaceRoom' game and I'll say that Polyphony's version is easily better than rFactor's and GRiD's.. and I'm going to say it beats Simbin's and CARS's too. The attention to detail of the scenery and landmarks (as someone who has visited the track multiple times in real life) and even most of the signage is spot on and the road-side buildings look like they've been given the same love and care as those at Silverstone.

Mt. Panorama is a public road and therefore has houses and farms dotted along it, and I'm not entirely sure those are present but I doubt even iRacing will be able to include things like that.

The big drop at Skyline where the track starts to go downhill again is scary as hell, as it should be. Even going down that thing at legal-speed is unnerving.

 

[LVracerGT]

Omg! Can you please elaborate a bit on this? Your words have brough forth the most exciting news I've heard since E3!

I'm glad I've brought exiting news for you! 👍

For example, one of the things they were teaching us was smooth throttle application, and the more you straighten the wheel the more throttle you can apply. In the real car I could do this and feel the power getting put down better and the car being more stable.

With the new physics in the build of GT6 we had, I could jump on when the activities for the were done and practice throttle application and actually "feel" the same sort of behavior that I was feeling in the real car earlier that day.

 

[Eager Snake]

I'm glad I've brought exiting news for you! 👍

For example, one of the things they were teaching us was smooth throttle application, and the more you straighten the wheel the more throttle you can apply. In the real car I could do this and feel the power getting put down better and the car being more stable.

With the new physics in the build of GT6 we had, I could jump on when the activities for the were done and practice throttle application and actually "feel" the same sort of behavior that I was feeling in the real car earlier that day.

If the simulation went THAT far, it would be awesome to have the new engine sounds also in the package. Aaaaaaaaaaaaand a proper damage system too. That'd be perfect.

 

[GTV0819]

If the simulation went THAT far, it would be awesome to have the new engine sounds also in the package. Aaaaaaaaaaaaand a proper damage system too. That'd be perfect.

So engine sounds will be fixed in the next game, hopefully.

 

[Tenacious D]

That run was also on Comfort Hards, and man let me tell you how good the new tire physics feel. The forward bite is so much better, it no longer feels like you're on ice. The grip loss when the car gets sideways feels amazing. One of the coolest things was being out on track during the GT Academy and going back into racecamp and practicing techniques you just learned and having it feel near identical.

This is exciting news, because many of us were a little disappointed that the tire physics in the Academy demo felt like a partial improvement. These tires sound awesome from your impressions, and I'm looking forward to hard compounds now.

Flunkus buttresses this with remarks in his thread that the latest GT6 demo physics at Bathurst SYDNEY, gah, feels close to the venerable iRacing, and he had to fight the cars much more. This "aliveness" is just what Gran Turismo needed, along with the other grouch points, but to me, suspension and tire dynamics were crucial. What good are better sounds if the physics remain unchanged?

Bring on December!

 

[Brend]

Here's a video I took while I was at Silverstone for GT Academy. If you look closely you can see how the car reacts during weight transitions and you can definitely feel it through the wheel. The physics on this build were 10x better than even the GT Academy demo. Enjoy

Maaaaaaad skills.

 

[Tenacious D]

I forgot to mention that "madness" thing, but I did in the YT page. And that is amazing, so fluid and precise, especially considering that it's with a wheel! Many drifters use a controller due to the instant snap from lock to lock it gives you, so wheel users who drift get extra kudos from me.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is exciting news, because many of us were a little disappointed that the tire physics in the Academy demo felt like a partial improvement. These tires sound awesome from your impressions, and I'm looking forward to hard compounds now.

Flunkus buttresses this with remarks in his thread that the latest GT6 demo physics at Bathurst SYDNEY, gah, feels close to the venerable iRacing, and he had to fight the cars much more. This "aliveness" is just what Gran Turismo needed, along with the other grouch points, but to me, suspension and tire dynamics were crucial. What good are better sounds if the physics remain unchanged?

Bring on December!

What good are better physics without better sounds?... could easily be a counter argument for those that love sound and are happy with the current physics. The physics were already pretty good, sounds are not.

 

[CoolColJ]

It's probably better than iRacing physics, try drifting like that in iRacing
I know I can't, snap back oversteer is the order of the day

In any case, iRacing's tyre model is not that great, NetKar Pro/Assetto Corsa has by far the better feel and tyre model IMO, and what GT6 should hopefully feel like.
iRacing had more in common with GT5, that driving on ice feeling.

 

[gt4viper]

The new physics are really encouraging, I normally take personal opinions with a few grains of salt, but when LVracerGT says they're good you can usually take it to the bank! I remember in the 2012 GT Academy, LVracerGT was generous enough to have me on his friends list that year; I felt like Fred Flintstone chasing his lap times, I used to fancy myself a swift driver until I raced him! The most frustrating part of it was watching his replays, it was so smooth and effortless it was almost boring!

P.S. I seriously doubt it will happen as we've heard nothing about if so far, but the the one new feature if like to see in GT6, is brake fade/failure.
I drive big heavy muscle cars and such do this is sort of shooting myself in the foot, but I think this is a critical part of racing isn't it? The art of preserving one's brakes, the benefit of lightening your car so you can brake harder and longer, this would add a whole new level of strategy on 5+lap races with semi stock cars.

 

[Crispy]

Is there more speed scrub when the tires have lost grip? One major problem with GT's physics so far has been the fact someone can slide through a corner with no speed loss, leading to not very smooth driving that would probably cause you to wreck the car in real life, but is otherwise fastest in game.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Agreed, Crispy. Speed scrub (or, the lack of it) was one of the bigger issues I had with GT5, and unfortunately, I can't really remember how it seemed when I played GT6 last month. I want to say it was improved over GT5, but I can't say I was spending a lot of time focusing on it; I was mostly concerned with trying to match Jordan's lap times

iRacing had more in common with GT5, that driving on ice feeling.

I was wondering how long into GT6's presence people would start changing their minds about GT5's apparently amazing physics. Turns out it's still two whole months before the game is in stores!

 

[Tenacious D]

What good are better physics without better sounds?... could easily be a counter argument for those that love sound and are happy with the current physics. The physics were already pretty good, sounds are not.

Well... if GT5's physics were better, I'd agree with you. As it stands now, I tend to go back n forth between GT5 and "that other game."

Back in February, I think it was, I fired up some of my PC sims, the GTRs and Live For Speed, Forza 4, and the venerable GT5. While the sims were very good, the clinical gaming staleness bored me quickly. Forza initially vexed me, but I kept coming back because I tasted something I'd forgotten about it. That "something" was a nice grippy tire model and some nice suspension modeling. Together with some extremely good tire sounds, the cars felt alive in F4. In contrast, GT5 felt like every car was a purpose built racing machine, very well mannered, lacking bodyroll this time, go figure, and every car was well planted on the road.

So all this time I've been asking for a physics improvement to make the cars in GT6 feel as alive as a real car, and as accurate as a PC sim. This news in particular made my year. Besides, we may both get what we want in GT6. Maybe not on launch day, but soon.

 

[PepeMickey]

There's something about FM4 that you can just do endless laps on any circuit and don't fall asleep like you do in GT5 even at the ring. The cars in FM4 need less babysitting and that's how it should be, you can really feel the difference between both tyre models, however, the flashy graphics in FM4 aren't very inmersive so it makes the whole experience kind of fake and artificial and not personal.

With GT6, to be honest I don't really feel any improvements, yes, the body roll is now visually insane but the car still feels well planted and it still punishes you for applying 1% more throttle than you should, there's no progression in the loss of grip, the same is true under braking with no ABS, it makes driving in GT a real chore and not fun.

It's slow in, incredibly slow through the apex and then fast out once the car is completely straight, you either do that or you'll slide through the corner with a wall of smoke behind you, there's no "in the middle" and that "middle" is the fastest way around a corner in real life, when you feel the weight shifting through the car and take advantage of that momentum, you're basically going on the edge of grip.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

There's something about FM4 that you can just do endless laps on any circuit and don't fall asleep like you do in GT5 even at the ring. The cars in FM4 need less babysitting and that's how it should be, you can really feel the difference between both tyre models, however, the flashy graphics in FM4 aren't very inmersive so it makes the whole experience kind of fake and artificial and not personal.

With GT6, to be honest I don't really feel any improvements, yes, the body roll is now visually insane but the car still feels well planted and it still punishes you for applying 1% more throttle than you should, there's no progression in the loss of grip, the same is true under braking with no ABS, it makes driving in GT a real chore and not fun.

It's slow in, incredibly slow through the apex and then fast out once the car is completely straight, you either do that or you'll slide through the corner with a wall of smoke behind you, there's no "in the middle" and that "middle" is the fastest way around a corner in real life, when you feel the weight shifting through the car and take advantage of that momentum, you're basically going on the edge of grip.

How did you get your hands on GT6 before anyone else ? and no ABS in GT5 is awesome, I drive exclusively without ABS in GT5 since release day, much better than with ABS, every car becomes alive, not a chore. ABS is what makes driving a chore, every braking is almost the same process every time as you do so consistently without any real risks or drama and not really fun anymore, all you do is stab the brakes with clinical precision assisted by the game so you won't lock the wheels and make things a whole lot easier to manage.

GT Academy 2013 Demo was much better without ABS, I am sure GT6 will have much better experience with no ABS than GT5, with much better and realistic physics and tire model. It will be another mainstay for me - no aids driving from day one and mostly on comfort tire

 

[PepeMickey]

How did you get your hands on GT6 before anyone else ? and no ABS in GT5 is awesome, I drive exclusively without ABS in GT5 since release day, much better than with ABS, every car becomes alive, not a chore. ABS is what makes driving a chore, every braking is almost the same process every time as you do so consistently without any real risks or drama and not really fun anymore, all you do is stab the brakes with clinical precision assisted by the game so you won't lock the wheels and make things a whole lot easier to manage.

GT Academy 2013 Demo was much better without ABS, I am sure GT6 will have much better experience with no ABS than GT5, with much better and realistic physics and tire model. It will be another mainstay for me - no aids driving from day one and mostly on comfort tire

Well I was talking about GTA 2013 of course, I also drive without ABS (real life too) and GT5's ABS doesn't work properly mainly because they've got the brake balance all wrong but even when you set it properly, there's still no progression, not even soundwise like in FM4 and the cars in GT5 are far too stable under such circumstances.

Anyway, the braking system in GT5/GT6 isn't the main issue here, it's the tyre model (or lack of) that makes the driving unnecesarily difficult, the new suspension model helps but without proper tyre simulation, FM4 still has the edge, at least on consoles.

 

[wajdi1977]

If you want to compare GT6 with rf2 physics, here my lap with the BMW GT3:tup:

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Well I was talking about GTA 2013 of course, I also drive without ABS (real life too) and GT5's ABS doesn't work properly mainly because they've got the brake balance all wrong but even when you set it properly, there's still no progression, not even soundwise like in FM4 and the cars in GT5 are far too stable under such circumstances.

Anyway, the braking system in GT5/GT6 isn't the main issue here, it's the tyre model (or lack of) that makes the driving unnecesarily difficult, the new suspension model helps but without proper tyre simulation, FM4 still has the edge, at least on consoles.

I see, you should have said GTA from the beginning, even the latest GT6 demo build is vastly different than GTA 2013 You should watch my high BB no ABS videos, not sure why some having trouble with no ABS, some of my GT5 friends who drive without ABS seems to enjoy it, one uses Fanatec wheels and another with Logitech wheels - this guy even drive Yellowbird on CH at Nurb without ABS It's not difficult with practice and more time IMO, the learning curve maybe be difficult part at first.

I disagree with GT5 being too stable under braking without ABS, I ran at current Italian cars TT with F40, no corner cutting without ABS, 8/4 BB and stock power - limiter, with only tuned LSD, mid turbo, suspension and weight reduction, and proper braking technique is very crucial.

It makes me wonder if you are really driving in GT5 without ABS...

 

[Tenacious D]

Some cars in GT5 are just too wild without ABS for me. I've tried adding in certain things like Stability Management or whatever, but ABS 1 ads in a little of everything and makes braking a breeze, so that's often what I stick with. The Nomad Diablo is one of my fave cars, but without ABS it's just too hard to read without that essential seat of the pants feel that a video game won't give me.

It's going to be very interesting to see how all these non-Standard cars perform with the new physics. I'm going to be driving every single one all over again to see how well they perform.

 

[GTV0819]

Some cars in GT5 are just too wild without ABS for me. I've tried adding in certain things like Stability Management or whatever, but ABS 1 ads in a little of everything and makes braking a breeze, so that's often what I stick with. The Nomad Diablo is one of my fave cars, but without ABS it's just too hard to read without that essential seat of the pants feel that a video game won't give me.

It's going to be very interesting to see how all these non-Standard cars perform with the new physics. I'm going to be driving every single one all over again to see how well they perform.

I can notice this with some cars.

 

[RedBaron]

That's mainly wrong front/rear brake distribution, isn't it?

 

[Johnnypenso]

From a guy who would never use the 5/5 BB fixed in the GTA Demo without ABS, I was quite impressed with the improved feel and progression I could get without ABS in the demo. I even hopped out of the demo and back in to GT5 with the same cars and tried to use 5/5 at Road Course Indy for a while and it was dramatically different, the loss of grip was almost instantaneous in GT5, much more progressive in the demo. I imagine with a proper BB I would normally use like 3/1 it'll be that much better. I was almost able to equal my lap times on the shorter course and within 1 second on the full track not being able to brake as late as I normally would because of the high rear BB. Really looking forward to trying it in the full game!!

 

[PepeMickey]

I see, you should have said GTA from the beginning, even the latest GT6 demo build is vastly different than GTA 2013 You should watch my high BB no ABS videos, not sure why some having trouble with no ABS, some of my GT5 friends who drive without ABS seems to enjoy it, one uses Fanatec wheels and another with Logitech wheels - this guy even drive Yellowbird on CH at Nurb without ABS It's not difficult with practice and more time IMO, the learning curve maybe be difficult part at first.

I disagree with GT5 being too stable under braking without ABS, I ran at current Italian cars TT with F40, no corner cutting without ABS, 8/4 BB and stock power - limiter, with only tuned LSD, mid turbo, suspension and weight reduction, and proper braking technique is very crucial.

It makes me wonder if you are really driving in GT5 without ABS...

Yes I am, because it's faster, I'm not saying it's too hard for me to drive/play like this, I just don't feel it's natural enough. I really hope GT6 gets a much better tyre model because since I play other sims, it makes it getting back into GT a little annoying.

 

[Samus]

Yay, another no ABS discussion from Ridox.

 

[Kitten]

The issue with No ABS it will auto lock up because of default brake balance of 5F/5R. I Adjusted it down to 3-4 depending and it locks up lot less. But overall. 0/ABS is much more fun and gives a much better experience in GT5 with cars with no ABS. Example the F40 is amazing with no ABS...

GT5 ABS is garbage in my opinion.. I started recently drifting with 0/ABS and I felt more in control of the vehicle.

Im excited for GT6 and hoping a better ABS Simulation.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Thank you Samus, it's a sacred discussion that annoys only you

Good to hear TheKitten 👍, we should cruise again sometime, join Carxpert club

 

[Kitten]

Thank you Samus, it's a sacred discussion that annoys only you

Good to hear TheKitten 👍, we should cruise again sometime, join Carxpert club

Ill just stay a Exclusive Non Existing member, and peak around when there rooms up.

 

[LVracerGT]

Thanks for all the kind words guys, I really appreciate it 👍

As for speed scrub, I never really tried to drive like I was for the demo that came out for GT Academy so I can't really comment on that. But I will say that when I was trying to get power down and be smooth out of corners it was faster than when I was trying to go full power and trying to hang the back end out, so there may be some promise in that area.

As for ABS, there was no option on the build at Silverstone to adjust the brake bias so I didn't even bother to try it out.

 

[tankuroded]

Yay, another no ABS discussion from Ridox.

Anti-driver aid elitism at it's best/worst, right, Samus? For once I agree with you. Just read Ridox's sig

(I use ABS and DS3 on GT5)