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Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)
- Thread starter TorqueHappenS08
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- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
Well there is not still really many games if any out that are using that system.
Scaff
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- ScaffUK
Odd then that GT5 had the exact same issues. You will find complaints about people exploiting physics issues in thread fro every GTA that has run.
GT5 was not better in this regard at all, if anything GT6 has improved in some areas, but is still not 'right'.
On touge runs yes you would be right, in a very tight hairpin then the handbrake can be quicker, on a circuit however its not going to be.
Yet when they race in Super GT, Le Mans and F3 your not going to see them using the handbrake (and most of these racing classes don't even have handbrakes) or deliberately initiating slides (which would get you black-flagged).
The quickest way around a corner is to have all four tyres right on their slip angle limit and the use of a handbrake or slide will always take you over that limit.
No. GT6 is slightly more realistic physics, but its still a way from being right, particularly in regard to the tyre model.
- 3,680
- London, ON
- A_Mindful_Place
- 2,012
Today I tried the gt6 demo on an expo that was held today at my country, and I'm not so sure it uses the exact same tire model as in GT:A 2013.
I know those are different cars (the deltawing and the r8) and maybe there are different aspects involved as well, but the game did feel better -more realistic- and had more info on the wheel than GT:A.
On a side note, it's miles better than GT5 in every single regard. Well, except AI but that's understandable in a demo.
All that means there's still hope.
I know those are different cars (the deltawing and the r8) and maybe there are different aspects involved as well, but the game did feel better -more realistic- and had more info on the wheel than GT:A.
On a side note, it's miles better than GT5 in every single regard. Well, except AI but that's understandable in a demo.
All that means there's still hope.
- 7,620
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
I say no. It felt like a completely new suspension on the same old poor excuse for rubber, which was disappointing because the tires had more of an effect on the driving feel and could have masked how good the suspension was.
- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
I don't think they had to model the damage, because there's nothing pre-baked. Everything is calculated via soft body physics and materials. The cars themself are kinda basic though and the performance needed is huge. Not possible on PS3 and most likely not even worth the effort on the PS4.
- 7,620
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
While there is no premodeled damage, as you go up in complexity, another problem arises. You need to make the model detailed enough to match the physics.
This one thing they really wanted to drill into me when I was taking my final college classes. We were designing a spy plane, and of course had CAD. We could either try to model the plane from the CAD models or use simple models outside of CAD. While doing everything in CAD was theoretically more accurate, we would have had to have the entire plane designed to get that accuracy, and we weren't at that point.
In the case with this software, the more advanced the physics, the less leeway there is on modeling the cars to get realistic results. With perfect physics, the cars may need to be recreated down to the last bolt if you wanted to capture their true response to a wreck. Trying to use shortcuts may result in strange behavior.
- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
That's what I meant with "kinda basic" cars.
Imagine a 250.000-500.000 poly car, with headlight, interior and other details, plus dozens of different materials (carbon, metal, plastic, glass etc.), the work you had to put into the engine, so it doesn't look freakish and isn't buggy...
Imagine a 250.000-500.000 poly car, with headlight, interior and other details, plus dozens of different materials (carbon, metal, plastic, glass etc.), the work you had to put into the engine, so it doesn't look freakish and isn't buggy...
- 7,765
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
Here's an interesting quote from an interview with Kaz regarding physics;
"We develop our physics engine based on the results of all the test measurements that we make, but it's not necessarily the case that these measurement results are always going to be the same as actual driving conditions. What's more, even now there are still a lot of things that happen to a car in motion that we don't fully understand. In other words, there's room for imagination in this genre, and I think the part of any game's physics engine that's more 'imagination' is what makes one sim feel different from each other."
Source; http://www.polygon.com/2013/9/11/47...-talks-physics-engines-smartphone-linkups-and
"We develop our physics engine based on the results of all the test measurements that we make, but it's not necessarily the case that these measurement results are always going to be the same as actual driving conditions. What's more, even now there are still a lot of things that happen to a car in motion that we don't fully understand. In other words, there's room for imagination in this genre, and I think the part of any game's physics engine that's more 'imagination' is what makes one sim feel different from each other."
Source; http://www.polygon.com/2013/9/11/47...-talks-physics-engines-smartphone-linkups-and
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Scaff
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TorqueHappenS08
It's something I have heard from other developers before. My concern is that the imagination part is what comes into play in areas they don't understand or have data for, given that past example are the tyre, suspension and aero model, I don't particularly trust PD's imagination.
I'm actually more impressed when they start using real data and the imagination of 3rd parties who have more experience in these areas, the advantage of which most have already seen in suspension (in the GT:A) and I hope to see repeated with tyres and aero in the final product.
- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
Bugbear Entertainment has also nice collision physics model and I bet they would be more than happy to work with PD. (not too much work as funding is still open for their next game)
http://nextcargame.com
http://nextcargame.com
- 7,765
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
- 2,498
- Iowa, USA
- LVracerGT
Here's a video I took while I was at Silverstone for GT Academy. If you look closely you can see how the car reacts during weight transitions and you can definitely feel it through the wheel. The physics on this build were 10x better than even the GT Academy demo. Enjoy 
- 216
Thank you LVracerGT x10! Was that drifting with wheel?
How would you compare that Gt6 version to Gt5?
How would you compare that Gt6 version to Gt5?
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Impressive skills, also yayyy no pixelation
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Here's a video I took while I was at Silverstone for GT Academy. If you look closely you can see how the car reacts during weight transitions and you can definitely feel it through the wheel. The physics on this build were 10x better than even the GT Academy demo. Enjoy
Impressive skills LV. If you have any more in depth commentary or analysis I'd appreciate it. One of the things I've always thought was a little lacking in GT was the feedback from the wheel and if it's improved whatever light you can shed on it would be appreciated. 👍👍
- 2,498
- Iowa, USA
- LVracerGT
Yes, it was on the Thrustmaster T500. That build of GT6 was some of the best physics I have experienced. The dynamics of the car feel completely new. If you watch closely in that video at 2:34 when the car transitions during the switchback you can actually see the body roll go from one side to the other and you can see the suspension squat or "plant" before rebounding and stabilizing.
The car actually felt heavy through the wheel. Even though that run was relatively smooth, I felt like I was wrestling the car the whole time. But when I was in the GT86 for example, it was much easier to throw the car and it felt more responsive. In other words, heavier cars feel heavy but in an entirely new way with the way weight transition and suspension is modeled.
That run was also on Comfort Hards, and man let me tell you how good the new tire physics feel. The forward bite is so much better, it no longer feels like you're on ice. The grip loss when the car gets sideways feels amazing. One of the coolest things was being out on track during the GT Academy and going back into racecamp and practicing techniques you just learned and having it feel near identical.
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- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Wow, awesome news indeed, new physics might be a real contender now
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 10,956
- Canada
That drift gameplay was incredible LVracerGT! 👍 I'm even more excited about the new physics after hearing your feedback. 
- 3,096
- Sweden
That's great to hear. It definitely looks more natural than it did in GT5. Though, I wonder if we will ever be able to turn down/off the tire smoke. It's really annoying, in my opinion. Nonetheless, thanks for sharing the video (that for once isn't a boring race with the AI) and your impressions.
👍
- 7,765
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
@ LVracerGT; mad drift skills! 👍 Nice to hear the physics are better than the Academy Demo, I was one of the people who really didn't like them. The car looks like it's moving much more naturally in that video, let's hope they get it spot on Dec 6th.
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