Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)
- Thread starter TorqueHappenS08
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- 3,100
- Sweden
I have yet to see or feel any torque steer in any of my front-wheel drive cars in GT5, tuned or stock. I did some testing before I wrote this post to make sure I wasn't talking out of my arse and I retain my stance on it. All of them launched in a straight line, regardless of setup. Something tells me that my 300-something plus horsepower front-wheel drive cars shouldn't be this worryingly calm.
- 1,034
- Athens,Ga
- simtibb
Ok I went out and grabbed another PS3 (they tried so hard to get me to buy a PS4) and will try GT5 again with a wheel, but I still hope GT6 is better in the realism department.
- 320
- GTClub_Alexino
- 1,034
- Athens,Ga
- simtibb
That demo isn't still available is it?
- 1,034
- Athens,Ga
- simtibb
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
As someone who went back to Forza 4 after quite a long hiatus, I'll quibble just a scouche about this. I should add I just race, never drift, so that whole world of kinetics is alien to me.
Even with the carptastic plastic MS FFB lap wheel, the cars in F4 feel very alive. Sports cars taken to the limit feel treacherous like they should. In comparison, cars in GT5 feel very safely planted to the road all up and down the range, as if they're all tuners at the very least.
Having said that though, I like both ends of the spectrum the two games offer, though I'll give the realism nod slightly in favor of GT5. Mainly it's because it seems like the cars behave slightly more sensibly in GT5, given that a big hunk of real life sensation is missing, and you only have what's fed you in a FFB wheel. Take ten front engined rear drive cars, and while they won't drive identically in real life, there will be a similarity in dynamics, the same for mid-engined and all the other types. While a little more lifeless in GT5, I think this is to be expected when the only sensation you have to go by is that wheel in your hands. In Forza in fact, some cars are wildly different for no clear reason, almost to the point I can't race them without flipping on assists. In contrast, in GT5 the cars which wig out on me are rides I would expect could be a handful without assists, such as the Nomad Diablo GT car which requires some sort of stability assist, and which I usually do the typical ABS 1 thing to give me all the assists at the minimum. Both Forza and Gran Turismo have, to me, reached the point that PC sims really don't offer all that much better realism. I can see why people choose one over the other, but I feel that the flavors of car physics have reached the point that there isn't a clear winner anymore.
A few months ago, I went back to GT5 because the wildness of the cars in Forza combined with the ridiculously aggressive bots stomped on my nerves a bit too much. I recently moved, and still don't have room to set up the racing rig, but most likely, I'll be firing up GT5 in anticipation of its much reworked sibling.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Curious to see your feedback.👍
- 1,255
- GTP_paltik
I have driven a modified miata in laguna seca IRL and in game and the driving feel was pretty close to me. I have driven a nicely setup evo in AutoX and it had a similar feel, quite close to the game.
GT5 just can't do a modified FWD, my autoX EG civic works wonders in track. It has a very nice lift off oversteer and this i cannot mimic in GT5. Other than modified FWD cars, GT5 driving feel is close to real life.
I'm excited to see what GT6 brings.
GT5 just can't do a modified FWD, my autoX EG civic works wonders in track. It has a very nice lift off oversteer and this i cannot mimic in GT5. Other than modified FWD cars, GT5 driving feel is close to real life.
I'm excited to see what GT6 brings.
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- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
- 1,034
- Athens,Ga
- simtibb
So I have played just 45 minutes or so of GT5, only driving street cars only on street tires not the race compound.
It's true, the experience is far better. I had a blast wheeling a little Lotus around the Ring. Some cars still produce unnatural understeer, but on these tires the oversteer is far more controlled. I think the new partnership with Yokohama may be a real treat in GT6.
The comment on FWD cars is very true, I have a lot of road course experience in real life in FWD cars and the characteristics of FWD cars in GT5 is quite off. It's no wonder so many people consider all FWD cars to be understeering pigs.
I still find the AWD cars (stock) to understeer a bit more than I have experienced in real life too.
Oh well, enough GT5 talk, I look forward to GT6. From the sounds of things, it's going to be a good one.
It's true, the experience is far better. I had a blast wheeling a little Lotus around the Ring. Some cars still produce unnatural understeer, but on these tires the oversteer is far more controlled. I think the new partnership with Yokohama may be a real treat in GT6.
The comment on FWD cars is very true, I have a lot of road course experience in real life in FWD cars and the characteristics of FWD cars in GT5 is quite off. It's no wonder so many people consider all FWD cars to be understeering pigs.
I still find the AWD cars (stock) to understeer a bit more than I have experienced in real life too.
Oh well, enough GT5 talk, I look forward to GT6. From the sounds of things, it's going to be a good one.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Glad to see you came to the table with an open mind Simon...kudos to youSo I have played just 45 minutes or so of GT5, only driving street cars only on street tires not the race compound.
It's true, the experience is far better. I had a blast wheeling a little Lotus around the Ring. Some cars still produce unnatural understeer, but on these tires the oversteer is far more controlled. I think the new partnership with Yokohama may be a real treat in GT6.
The comment on FWD cars is very true, I have a lot of road course experience in real life in FWD cars and the characteristics of FWD cars in GT5 is quite off. It's no wonder so many people consider all FWD cars to be understeering pigs.
I still find the AWD cars (stock) to understeer a bit more than I have experienced in real life too.
Oh well, enough GT5 talk, I look forward to GT6. From the sounds of things, it's going to be a good one.
- 1,033
No, didn't you hear? It's going to be the worst game ever. Worse than Hitler actually. Sorry, just noticed you haven't really been a part of the build up to GT6 and wanted to make sure you get a taste of the tone you'll be seeing.
I'm pumped BTW.
- 1,211
- Earth
- TheLordSnowden
- LordSnowden
Great point, I race Miata's in scca and had 3 races at Laguna last June, I can't mimic the rear wheel steering like I do in real life and the dynamics might be related as its a technic in a Miata, more mandatory to get the rotation in a fwd to be competitive...
I'm using a full chassis for sims, and though I can do the rear street, I can do it consistently and it's more like a controlled drift than rotation.
- 2,643
- Finland
- OdeFinn
Okey, that's kinda true, if your real life car suspension could make perfectly identical on both sides (including camber/toe and identical tires) it will go close to GT5 style.
Gotta do few tests on GT5 again, had small feeling at it is pulling, but forces are not so big at it make any bigger difference to keep car on line, plus mostly using early lock on FF's. (
Tested, and there is torque steer, not heavily what is obvious 'coz 100% identical torque spread from differential (0,0,0 lock), lack of realism on virtual world where things are working perfectly
Used some 0km Mini and put toe -0.10 to front and +0.05 rear, 0-cambers.
Wheel turned ~30-40 degree when stopped and started accelerate, first it pulls and then it stabilize it, a bit more noticed if car is standing half on different type of surface, pulling happens but soon neutralize it.
For same kind of behavior what we can have in real world there should be some breaking to do that perfectly working differential and 100% identical settings on sides of car.. but there goes line, altering that on default is cheating, but permanent body damages altering this would be great.
0 cars are left from factory in any way of identical on sides (left-right), there is always differences between toes, cambers, shock absorbers stiffness, springs and none of differential gears work so perfectly what simulated model of it does.
Note from real life; try to put FF car front tires pressure 0.1bar different on sides and car goes like a wild dog when accelerating, then put them on same pressure and goes fine. (prefer to use some digital pressure meter what handles 0.01 bar). I know at even smaller 0.05 bar difference makes same wild dog behavior, so called "torque steer".
(remember at even close to real test you need to have proper close to identical toe and not much loose joints)
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- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Try do standing launch at Daytona Road Course race, the banking will affect the torque sent to the surface, this happens MR, FR and FF The Cobra won't launch straight. GT5 is not perfect, only some portion are simulated when it comes to torque steer - the game assumes perfect symmetry on both sides of suspension setup + alignment + distributed weight ( the game only simulate front to rear weight distribution ). Equal traction on all tires when on flat surface ( GT5 - no tire wear ) - unlike in real life where road surface are not the same on every inch - there are variation. Differences in weight and surface traction on each tire alone will cause the car to steer in one direction in real life, even with perfect suspension setup - equal on both side, not counting the tires condition which are never the same in real life.
The Cobra won't launch straight. GT5 is not perfect, only some portion are simulated when it comes to torque steer - the game assumes perfect symmetry on both sides of suspension setup + alignment + distributed weight ( the game only simulate front to rear weight distribution ). Equal traction on all tires when on flat surface ( GT5 - no tire wear ) - unlike in real life where road surface are not the same on every inch - there are variation. Differences in weight and surface traction on each tire alone will cause the car to steer in one direction in real life, even with perfect suspension setup - equal on both side, not counting the tires condition which are never the same in real life.
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- 4,101
- California
- Sk8er913
www.gameswelt.tv/gran-turismo-6/hands-on-event-in-muenchen,37318?mode=2 Around 14 minutes and a few seconds, theres 2 jumps, needs gif.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
No, didn't you hear? It's going to be the worst game ever. Worse than Hitler actually. Sorry, just noticed you haven't really been a part of the build up to GT6 and wanted to make sure you get a taste of the tone you'll be seeing.
I'm pumped BTW.
A perfect example of the sort of balanced response to criticisms one can expect, I see.
- 1,033
A perfect example of the sort of balanced response to criticisms one can expect, I see.
It's a exaggeration of course, but some people on here do tend to view things in a negative light. PD could announce tomorrow that all standards will be upgraded to premiums for free in the day one patch and you'd have people on here going "pppffffttt took 'em long enough!". Or, PD could come out tomorrow and say that every copy of has a $100 bill in the case and you'd get "Yeah, they owe it too us for the crappy AI!".*
*These quotes are fictional exaggerations designed to illustrate a mentality in a lighter, not so serious manner.
- 2,828
Whoever commented that Forza killed GT5 in the physics department is kidding themselves.
Played Forza 4 for the first time over the weekend (for a good couple of hours) and it doesn't come close.
GT5 was good and GT6 looks better again (based on the GT academy demo). In particular, pitch and role seem to be dramatically improved.
Forza is an awesome game but very much an arcade game in comparison
Played Forza 4 for the first time over the weekend (for a good couple of hours) and it doesn't come close.
GT5 was good and GT6 looks better again (based on the GT academy demo). In particular, pitch and role seem to be dramatically improved.
Forza is an awesome game but very much an arcade game in comparison
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
GT5 might feel very good, but it's physics system is extremely simplified. There are plenty of examples of this in the Versus threads.
GT5 had some pretty glaring and basic deficiencies. It is still unknown whether GT6 will continue these deficiencies, like for example unmodifiable tyre pressures.
@CarreraGT -- Care to go into any more detail than "it doesn't come close" and "very much an arcade game"? Preferably in the appropriate thread so as to keep this one related to GT6.
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