Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

[RacingFan1]

The PS5 is overwhelmingly more powerful than any PC you could build in 2015 was; which was already leaps and bounds ahead of what the PS4 could do. You should get some sort of a clue how PC hardware has advanced in the past decade, especially in the past 4 years or so, before you keep making statements about where it was at any specific time in history.

If nothing else though you've at least picked a date this time where a top of the line computer from then can still reliably play games released in 2020/2021.

No, they aren't. Linneman has even specifically noted elsewhere, also brought up in this thread, that developers are sick of working with the constraints of the PS4/XBone.

Or they are industry journalists with decades of experience between them, with their chosen expertise being in regards to game hardware specifically, who don't want games releasing in 2022 (two years after the launch of the fastest selling console in the history of the industry) to be handcuffed to bad hardware from 2013.

I suppose I can see how that might be confused with being "typical hardware elitists" though, from someone who compared the PS4 to a mid-ranged PC and asserted a game from 2021 would work fine on a PC from 2013.

No, it's not. In absolute terms, it was middling-to-bad when it was new. It was an open secret that it it was middling-to-bad when it was new. People were complaining that the hardware was middling-to-bad when it was new. Developers commented on it being middling-to-bad when it was new. Sony and Microsoft both indirectly justified it being middling-to-bad when both were new by expressing that they weren't interested in taking a humongous bath on each console sale that generation like they had on PS360.

PD released a game 4 years after the console it was on came out and deliberately did not take advantage of all of the hardware at their disposal in the process; then noted that they sacrificed features to make sure the stuff they did implement worked correctly?

Exaggerating will not make you any more right or any less wrong than you are.
What I said is correct. For example a very high end PC with an OC 980Ti from 2015 is definitely not far off PS5, which is what I said, so please, stop with this tone and be a bit more respectful. If you look only at raw specs numbers like a nerd you may think PS5 is vastly better, but if you add the best possible overclock and the best cooling, then combine it with the best possible CPU, available at the time and the best overall PC build, you'll find out that it's not the case.
Also, no matter how times how you repeat "fastest selling console" won't make it solve the stock and production problem. Maybe you tell Sony executives what to do, as I suppose you think they don't have a clue either
This "GT7 to PS4" decision is unseen before, and can't be taken with a VERY big reason behind it, that only they know

 

[QTheRacer_31]

They made a big mistake calling it GT7 as it feels like the PS4 never had its GT# game. I mean… GT League is basically the single player part of traditional GT games with some adaptations (car classes and power/weight sliders instead of tuning parts).

It was a little weird when they announced GT7 as GT being back but you had to buy a new console to get what you thought you would be getting on PS4 back then. It’s a way to push a new system but meh… It’s a weird marketing strategy after having said GTS was basically GT7.

 

[Samus]

a 980Ti is from 2015 and its definitely not far off PS5

A 980ti is around 6 TF. The PS5 GPU is 10TF.

So, no. It's a long way off.

 

[RacingFan1]

A 980ti is around 6 TF. The PS5 GPU is 10TF.

So, no. It's a long way off.

Add best CPU of the time, best possible overclocking on both CPU and GPU and then add better cooling than the PS5

Regardless of PS5, a high end PC is far better than any console at the time, which is my original point, to prove that vastly different hardware could take a game without a problem and make it very playable regardless... the chat derailed into some stupid hardware wars.

 

[TS050]

the chat derailed into some stupid hardware wars.

This only happened because you keep insisting the PS4 is something that it isn’t

This is hardware that was known to be underpowered at launch, and we know devs don’t like that they’re still shackled to the console…

 

[Famine]

This is hardware that was known to be underpowered at launch, and we know devs don’t like that they’re still shackled to the console…

... and which, if a PS4 version does come to pass, will either limit the PS5 version of GT7 or look and run worse than GT Sport - making the marketing of the PS5 version harder.

 

[RacingFan1]

This only happened because you keep insisting the PS4 is something that it isn’t

This is hardware that was known to be underpowered at launch, and we know devs don’t like that they’re still shackled to the console…

Underpowered compared to what? It was the best console at the time, better than the Xbone.

 

[Samus]

Underpowered compared to what

The PS5. Thats the whole point.

 

[RacingFan1]

The PS5. Thats the whole point.

PS5 existed at PS4 lauch?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Spot on, while newer consoles can push more polygons, we are at a point where we are definitely seeing diminishing returns. The difference we see from the jumps now is not huge, the bigger gain for polygon utilisation now IMO is to create more realistic environments with more going on. I.e. GTA 6 could have busy areas with many times more pedestrians walking around and heavier traffic if they wanted to.

I don't mind GT Sports graphics too much, I expect GT7 to be better graphically, that's a given, higher resolutions, better lighting etc. And I like to see them improve the environments (which may not happen to the degree it should). However it's how you utilise the CPU over the GPU that I'm interested in, better AI, faster and more complex physics. Feature wise, dymanic time of day and weather would also be welcome, that would be more of a GPU strain on PS4 and require them to streip the graphics back from GT Sport. Therefore if GT7 is cross-gen as we now expect this is unlikely to happen for GT7.

I'm most excited to see better lighting in games going forward. I'd rather have GT4 polygon count with full ray tracing (including global illumination) than GT Sport polygon count with fully rasterized lighting. Ok that might be a slight exaggeration...but after seeing how stunning very simple models look with full ray tracing (such as Minecraft & Quake RT) it has made me realize that super high mesh complexity can only get you so far in terms of image realism.

I'm very curious to know how intensive the GT Sport engine is on the PS4 CPU. Does anyone have that information? If it's even close to pushing the Jaguar's boundaries, and if GT7 does indeed end up being crossgen, I think we could fairly conclusively say that the engine is being held back by the PS4.

I think there is another possibility that we are (I think) missing. GT7 began development targeting PS4 and at some point switched to target PS5 and now Sony is hedging. If this is true, the PS5 would have always been a PS4 title at the core of it, and the PS5 version would have upgraded visuals only.

 

[redhed17]

For those that are disappointed, I'd like to remind you the Forza Horizon 2. It was a cross-gen release as well and most people would remember how bad it was on the 360 and it didn't affect the XB1 version at all.. I don't think the game will be downgraded because of the PS4 but rather they'll limit the GT7's PS4 version. That way, -except the online championships- the PS5 version will not be affected. Maybe they can even block the PS4 version from joining ranked lobbies. We don't know anything except the release news.

Mmm, so you could be the fastest GT player in the World, but if you didn't have a PS5, you couldn't actually be 'the best'. Good luck marketing that one.

 

[Dave A]

I think there is another possibility that we are (I think) missing. GT7 began development targeting PS4 and at some point switched to target PS5 and now Sony is hedging. If this is true, the PS5 would have always been a PS4 title at the core of it, and the PS5 version would have upgraded visuals only.

That is possible, however all we have to go on is that GT7 was first shown as PS5 exclusive (in fact it still is officially) and the news is that the PS4 version seems like a recent development. But if GT7 was at one stage planned for PS4 before PS5, a decision to go as a PS5 exclusive instead would still raise the benchmark for what they can do. If the deciison is made early then there's no reason for them to still not take advantage of the PS5's CPU, RAM, GPU etc. But it is something that hasn't really been discussed yet.

 

[05XR8]

In the GTS and GT7 comparison videos of the ray tracing, would that basically be the only difference?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

In the GTS and GT7 comparison videos of the ray tracing, would that basically be the only difference?

If you are speaking about something like this...



I see better lighting (including shadows) way better reflections and I'm pretty sure higher resolution. Track-side environment looks more detailed, but they aren't the same so it's not really comparable. Level of detail of the car looks...the same?

To my eyes, it looks like what you would do if you had an existing game architecture and wanted to make it prettier with more hardware headroom, rather than anything ground up. The more I think about it, the more I think this game is going to be GT Sport + Single Player + content on PS4 and an additional visual upgrade on PS5 and nothing more. It's a far cry from the GT2 -> GT3 or GT4 -> GT5 generational leap.

 

[Vspectra]

Appreciate the effort but I know what Witcher 3 looks like on every platform.
Machines like the PS4 Pro or XBox One can't run Witcher 3 on max settings. A maxed out version on PC still looks better than those and only could be ran on next gen consoles. If you dont think the difference between PS4 TW3 and PC TW3 on max settings isn't "enormous" or "quite big", then ok, it's your opinion, I have mine, let's move on...

Apparently you don't, as I already provided video and image comparison proof of the slight differences between a maxed out pc version vs ps4 Witcher 3. The game was even downgraded from its initial PC-spec reveal with the devs admitting they had to make rendering changes. That's a fact, not a matter of opinion.

Maybe you wanna point out specifically in the comparison images what differentiates the PC Ultra Settings of Witcher 3 to the PS4 version that shows this "enormous" difference you're talking of?

PC Ultra settings

PS4

Cyberpunk WAS rushed. They spent too much time developing it, yes, but was still rushed because it was definitely a non-polished, not 100% finished product at the release date. Those are not mutually exclusive.

No, it was not "rushed" simply because the console versions ran poorly at release. That's not proof of a "rushed" development, especially after 8 years of development and numerous delays. The game performance runs fine on high-end PC and next-gen consoles. The devs literally admitted they focused too much on developing for pc/next-gen specs and now almost a year after release they still haven't fixed the last gen version with patches. They simply made the mistake of designing for high-end specs and now the last-gen versions are suffering even trying to run the game.

You have the same developer who made Witcher 3 work fine on last gen consoles by downgrading the game from its initial reveal, to the same developer refusing to downgrade Cyberpunk and ended up with a game that last-gen consoles struggle to run on. It's that simple.

 

[GTPNewsWire]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

How Gran Turismo 7 Could be Compromised by PlayStation 4

This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on June 8th, 2021 in the Gran Turismo 7 category.

 

[05XR8]

If you are speaking about something like this...



I see better lighting (including shadows) way better reflections and I'm pretty sure higher resolution. Track-side environment looks more detailed, but they aren't the same so it's not really comparable. Level of detail of the car looks...the same?

To my eyes, it looks like what you would do if you had an existing game architecture and wanted to make it prettier with more hardware headroom, rather than anything ground up. The more I think about it, the more I think this game is going to be GT Sport + Single Player + content on PS4 and an additional visual upgrade on PS5 and nothing more. It's a far cry from the GT2 -> GT3 or GT4 -> GT5 generational leap.

Yes. The RX-Vision comparison, showed the more detailed reflections on the front wings of the car in GT7.

Some complaints about the trees(design and/or detail) was still an issue. If PD were only ever going to make the reflections detailed and not much else... side bar, I think the trailer showed the 917 with realistic headlight dispersion in the shaded scene... There's really only car count, that'd be something GT7 would need the power for.

I'm saying, look beyond rain at nighttime Spa, with a 30 car grid. The game would just be enhanced graphically. That's what PD do. Pushing the graphics limits. They don't need to add weather transition for that.

 

[05XR8]

Just when I post my comment in the other thread, you make this one. 👍

Good stuff.

 

[RacingFan1]

Apparently you don't, as I already provided video and image comparison proof of the slight differences between a maxed out pc version vs ps4 Witcher 3. The game was even downgraded from its initial PC-spec reveal with the devs admitting they had to make rendering changes. That's a fact, not a matter of opinion.

Maybe you wanna point out specifically in the comparison images what differentiates the PC Ultra Settings of Witcher 3 to the PS4 version that shows this "enormous" difference you're talking of?

PC Ultra settings

PS4

No, it was not "rushed" simply because the console versions ran poorly at release. That's not proof of a "rushed" development, especially after 8 years of development and numerous delays. The game performance runs fine on high-end PC and next-gen consoles. The devs literally admitted they focused too much on developing for pc/next-gen specs and now almost a year after release they still haven't fixed the last gen version with patches. They simply made the mistake of designing for high-end specs and now the last-gen versions are suffering even trying to run the game.

You have the same developer who made Witcher 3 work fine on last gen consoles by downgrading the game from its initial reveal, to the same developer refusing to downgrade Cyberpunk and ended up with a game that last-gen consoles struggle to run on. It's that simple.

Those comparison images are fake or not valid. PC version is so much better than PS4. Search witcher 4k on uber settings or whatever it's called, its so much better and much crisipier... There are lots of comparisons on youtube

 

[Famine]

Just when I post my comment in the other thread, you make this one. 👍

Good stuff.

Wait until you see what happens when I merge them

Edit: Or when @Jordan beats me to it

 

[Dave A]

Wait until you see what happens when I merge them

Nice blanaced article, very timely given the discussions going on right now, I'm guessing that's not coincidencental?

 

[Moglet]

"Outside of that, every PS5 and XB Series game so far is identical to its PS4 and XB One version, with no differences in gameplay mechanics"

Planet Coaster lets you build larger parks on PS5 and XB Series

 

[Famine]

Planet Coaster lets you build larger parks on PS5 and XB Series

*deletes entire article*

 

[05XR8]

Wait until you see what happens when I merge them

Edit: Or when @Jordan beats me to it

 

[snc]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

How Gran Turismo 7 Could be Compromised by PlayStation 4

This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on June 8th, 2021 in the Gran Turismo 7 category.

only hope they are separate versions without crossplay

 

[opelgt1969]

If PD would release a launch game at the launch of the system they wouldn't have this problem.

 

[Klik]

Exaggerating will not make you any more right or any less wrong than you are.
What I said is correct. For example a very high end PC with an OC 980Ti from 2015 is definitely not far off PS5, which is what I said, so please, stop with this tone and be a bit more respectful. If you look only at raw specs numbers like a nerd you may think PS5 is vastly better, but if you add the best possible overclock and the best cooling, then combine it with the best possible CPU, available at the time and the best overall PC build, you'll find out that it's not the case.
Also, no matter how times how you repeat "fastest selling console" won't make it solve the stock and production problem. Maybe you tell Sony executives what to do, as I suppose you think they don't have a clue either
This "GT7 to PS4" decision is unseen before, and can't be taken with a VERY big reason behind it, that only they know

Hello. I have GTX 980ti and a PS5. I get about 20fps with gtx on 4k medium settings with no raytracing while on PS5 4k with almost stable 60fps probably high settings+raytracing. So the difference is quite large.

In 2 years my gtx will probably be too weak to play next gen games even in 1080p.

PS5 is a man beast for 399$. Its faster than 95% gaming pc out there. You realize that only 4-5% of pc gamers have GPU faster than RTX 2080?Not to mention 8core cpu and SSD

 

[astrarobotica]

I mean, it makes sense that the fundamental physics will be identical between consoles. But does anyone really expect a significant jump in physics with GT7 that would require more CPU than the PS4 is capable of? It seems like they've plateaued in that area, and I had assumed they weren't really interested in pursuing more realistic physics along the line of other modern sims.

But there's no reason to assume the PS5 won't have exclusive features left out of the PS4 version. GT Sport has what, four or five tracks that support wet weather? Two years after the game came out? 474 out of 1197 cars in GT6 were "premium" while the rest were basically PS2 models?

PD doesn't care about parity within a game on one console, why would a cross-gen title be any different? I think it's silly to assume the PS5 version wouldn't have features the PS4 can't handle. Dynamic time of day, weather, specific circuits, number of cars on track... I wouldn't be surprised if any of those things were compromised on the PS4 version only.

I love Gran Turismo, but we have to acknowledge that PD doesn't always make sensible decisions, and this is a lot of speculation on a game we know virtually nothing about. Apart from some pretty ray-tracing there's nothing yet that indicates GT7 will even push the series forward.

 

[QTheRacer_31]

only hope they are separate versions without crossplay

Not gonna happen unless they leave Sport Mode to GTS which would be smart as eSports aren’t that popular and you’d still be able to play GTS on a PS5 if you cared about FIA.

 

[Vspectra]

Those comparison images are fake or not valid. PC version is so much better than PS4. Search witcher 4k on uber settings or whatever it's called, its so much better and much crisipier... There are lots of comparisons on youtube

Man you really are moving goal posts now bro. Those comparisons aren't fake (prove it if you can), they're from Digital Foundry analyzing the XBO/PS4 versions of the game compared to PC max settings. Previously I even posted another video comparing ultra settings to ps4. If you wanna prove me wrong and that they're fake, post your own comparison image proving this massive difference you're talking about.

As stated earlier, Witcher 3 on PC Ultra Settings allows for an increase in image resolution, increase in draw distance for shadows and assets, and those are the biggest graphical differences. It's not some massive generational difference. The game's assets and visuals were designed for PS4/XBO consoles, then they just scaled up resolution and draw distance for the PC release.