- 1,024
- Poland
opposite, fia events only on ps5 and some bacic online events and lobbies on ps4 without crossplay as it wouldn't have dynamic day/weather and improved phycics, basicaly just release gtsport + singleplayer content as gt7 on ps4
Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title
- Thread starter Vspectra
- 2,048 comments
- 167,468 views
- 1,748
- vspectra06
- vspectra06
Hopefully PD reads this and addresses the concern...
PD spent 6 years making GTSport and all its updates and physics tweaks on PS4. the game isn't even fully locked at 60fps on base ps4, and some people think there's still some magical hidden power left in the PS4 to have vastly better physics in addition to dynamic time and weather.
- 3,836
- Canada
- TPCDangerSashimi
RE: Segregating the player base could provide a solution, but we can’t imagine PD will exclude people from the FIA Online Championships for not having the right equipment.
Would it be that different from the mixed DS4 and wheel users now? I doubt it.
I think internet connection quality is a bigger factor than equipment. Now in relation to controllers. And probably will be between PS4/5 cross-gen play.
- 860
- Longueuil
Dynamic weather in FIA would make people whine too much. Static rain is already too much for many.
What you’re asking for is basically an expansion of GT Leagues and Driving School tests. Time to ditch the old PS4 before the new PS5 is outdated. GT8 in 2026 would mean the fancy tech in the PS5 will already be old tech.
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- 1,024
- Poland
thats was only my theorecical way ps4 is not hindering ps5 version, I'm not asking for any ps4 version
- 1,748
- vspectra06
- vspectra06
The PS4 jaguar CPU is roughly equivalent to a Core 2 Quad q6600 from 2008. The PS5 CPU is pretty much a Ryzen 3700x. Just compare the benchmarks, the performance difference is massive. We're still pretty early on in this gen and haven't even really seen anything yet. Would be a shame if come 2024 and PD is still stuck doing updates to GT7 PS4.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core2-Quad-Q6600-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-3700X/1980vs4043
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core2-Quad-Q6600-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-3700X/1980vs4043
- 1,748
- vspectra06
- vspectra06
The base PS4 cpu is 8 cores clocked at 1.6 ghz. Digital Foundry estimated its performance to be the same as the Core 2 Quad q6600, which was 4 cores clocked at 2.4 ghz.
I wonder which cpu that chart is using in replacement of the PS4 Pro cpu, as the ps4 8 cores were custom and AMD didn't have any 8 core jaguars available on the market.
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- 9,149
- United Kingdom
- neema_t
The fact that it's not locked at 60fps on the PS4 is only really indicative of the fact that it was poorly optimised and they prioritised the wrong thing in order to sell copies. Had the game not had the complex but gorgeous baked-in pre-rendered ray traced lighting, dynamic weather and time of day would've been doable (as it has been in GTA games for some time, for example), and the poor performance doesn't indicate that the PS4 was incapable of more advanced physics - the silicon that computes the graphics isn't the silicon that computes the physics, after all.
Personally I think this is way overblown for two reasons:
1. PD could well optimise (i.e. "downgrade") the graphics of the PS4 version to make certain features possible, then the PS5 could have parity with those features but with improved visuals (through real time ray tracing, a higher rendering resolution, etc.)
2. Sony based their marketing of the PS5 on its improved loading times and ray tracing, we all knew it wasn't going to reinvent the wheel even before it came out. It's not a supercomputer, it's definitely a very capable machine though.
I just don't really see why people think GT7 would be somehow vastly improved by not supporting the PS4 when it could just not support the PS4 and still be as disappointing as GT5, 6 and Sport were just because PD doesn't really know what its doing, nor what the people who'll play their games for more than a handful of hours actually want.
One thing's for sure, if GT7 isn't perfect on the PS5 (regardless of the actual reason), it'll be blamed on the decision to support the PS4... Even though the last three games haven't been good anyway. PD could make this work, but I have little faith that they will.
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- 40,768
Let's go over the things you've said so far to cover your knowledge of PC hardware, since you keep pretending that you haven't been responded to and just repeating variations of the same statements:
Wrong. PS4 was well below a mid-end PC when it was new in 2013. When you were told this, you responded with this:
Wrong. A PC built in 2013, even with components that would absolutely have destroyed the PS4 in 2013 (which wasn't that hard to do), would seriously struggle to play any flagship PC game made in the past couple years if nothing had changed in it since assembly. It's even possible they would even be unplayable; especially if you AMD-targeted your 2013 PC. A PC built in 2013 with components that were in the ballpark to the PS4 would have struggled to play PC games the day you finished building it. When you were told this, you just ignored it.
Wrong. It was developed with PS4 and Xbone in mind, since console versions were announced at the same time and the game was originally intended to come out only 9-ish months after the consoles launched; and they got it to run on what is literally mobile hardware in the Switch port; and the game largely is just better looking and performing on PC than any substantive difference that you keep claiming is there; and when the PC version started getting too advanced for its own good to run on PS4/XBone, CDPR cut the PC version down to make sure it wouldn't overstrip the console's ability to play it (of which there was even a ton of controversy about when the game released) then had to readd a bunch of configuration options back in the PC version to tamper down the blowback from PC gamers.
The Witcher 3 on consoles vs PC was not like GTA V PS360 vs GTA V PS4/Xbone/PC.
You have no idea what you're talking about and have consistently shown that you don't over multiple pages of this thread. When presented with people trying to explain to you that you don't know what you're talking about, you ignore them and repeat the same statement with some other minor change in context. When presented with evidence to show you that you don't know what you are talking about, you misrepresent what it contains to claim it is proof that you are right after all. We're in the second console generation in a row where we don't even have to guess how powerful the consoles will be, because Sony and Microsoft both just yanked stuff off the shelf and tweaked it a bit; yet you're going on in this thread as if the PS4 is made out of some disaster of poorly documented boutique components whose true power is unlimited so long as the developers can figure out how to program for it.
Earn the respect.
you would have a GPU which is significantly slower; and further handicapped with less VRAM and with a less substantial featureset than RDNA 2.
PS5 would fall somewhere around the 6700/6800.
you have a CPU that is significantly weaker than any of the Zen2 platform models:
Of which the PS5 would probably fall between the 3600 and the 3800. Meaning you would would combine to make a platform that had both a much weaker GPU (which is bottlenecked by low VRAM and featureset) and a weaker CPU; which could very well begin struggling to play new games at all in the next year or so without a new GPU.
This is all spinning in circles a bit though, as the "best possible CPU available at the time" was far and away more powerful than Jaguar as it is and bringing up The Witcher 3 is irrelevant anyway, so want to move the goalposts somewhere else?
Or, put another way:
This amazing inference of all of the untapped power in the PS4's 8 year old refresh of an 11 year old netbook CPU is reminding me so much of the person on this forum who acted like a huge tech expert claiming for years that the PS4 was just a firmware patch away from being a 4K console.
As far as the entire history of the videogame industry is concerned and in the context of "will there be people to buy this videogame when it releases," there isn't a stock and production problem. The chip shortage has had such little practical effect on sales of the PS5 in terms of install base that no console in the entire history of the videogame industry has ever sold as well after 6 months; a trend that Sony has gone on record to say they expect will continue for the entire year following its release. And GT7 is a game that's probably a year and a half away still.
This is the context that you're bringing up for why it's something Sony needs to do to maintain profitability.
No, I think they're making the same mistake they made in 2013. And it doesn't seem like public perception is in their favor regarding it, just like it wasn't for Microsoft when they claimed they were doing the same thing in the fall of last year.
(All apologies to Steve for using his data in this way)
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- 1,748
- vspectra06
- vspectra06
This isn't accurate at all and doesn't make much sense. Baked lighting is inherently cheaper than real-time dynamic lighting. It doesn't matter if you bake in poor lighting data that only took half a second to calculate offline or if you bake in complex ray-traced lighting that took 10 hours to pre-compute offline, that data ultimately is just stored as a texture that is loaded in at runtime and is practically free to use, there's no calculating involved at runtime. Forza has baked their lighting and environment shadow maps for the past 7 games to maintain their framerate target. They didn't choose to use baked data for nothing.
GTSport also only baked its ray-traced global illumination data offline, but the direct lighting and shadow maps are still real-time and dynamic. Real-time shadow maps are actually pretty costly. Even still, GTSport on base PS4 only dips to low 50s on rare occasions; its framerate still vastly outperforms the PS4 sims that had worse looking dynamic lighting/weather where those games average between 30-45fps.
It actually is, you can offload some physics to the GPU that used to be done on the CPU, or you can mostly use the CPU. And the CPU is still needed to maintain the target framerate. GPU determines how high your framerate can go, CPU determines how long it can stay there.
- 171
- Brazil
I understand the frustration of many players here, but i see expectations were unrealistic from the start, as you review the trailer, point by point, you won't see anything so impressive as to justify being a new-gen exclusive title, for me always it was very clear that PD's intention with the GT7 was to do something a little more sophisticated, bigger and improved, things that they couldn't or didn't have time to do with the GT Sport, at least for those who played the title as soon as it came out, i believe which was even more evident when watching the trailer..seems people forgot about the transition from GT5 to 6 and from PC1 to 2..don't forget it's a company and at the end of the day what matters is money..
- 16,143
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
You know, if the game is actually good and provides that Gran Turismo experience from the past, it won't matter if it's cross-gen. However if it doesn't offer the experience that I want, I will put it down pretty quickly. That's ultimately what it comes down to.
- 194
- Las Vegas, NV
- Tomahawkun
Let's go over the things you've said so far to cover your knowledge of PC hardware, since you keep pretending that you haven't been responded to and just repeating variations of the same statements:
Wrong. PS4 was well below a mid-end PC when it was new in 2013. When you were told this, you responded with this:
Wrong. A PC built in 2013, even with components that would absolutely have destroyed the PS4 in 2013 (which wasn't that hard to do), would seriously struggle to play any PC game made in the past couple years. Especially if you AMD-targeted your build, it's possible they would even be unplayable. A PC built in 2013 with components that were in the ballpark to the PS4 would have struggled to play PC games the day you finished building it. When you were told this, you just ignored it.
Wrong. It was developed with PS4 and Xbone in mind, since console versions were announced at the same time and the game was originally intended to come out only 9-ish months after the consoles launched; and they got it to run on what is literally mobile hardware in the Switch port; and the game largely is just better looking and performing on PC than any substantive difference that you keep claiming is there; and when the PC version started getting too advanced for its own good to run on PS4/XBone, CDPR cut the PC version down to make sure it wouldn't overstrip the console's ability to play it (of which there was even a ton of controversy about when the game released) then had to readd a bunch of configuration options back in the PC version to tamper down the blowback from PC gamers.
The Witcher 3 on consoles vs PC was not like GTA V PS360 vs GTA V PS4/Xbone/PC.
You have no idea what you're talking about and have consistently shown that you don't over multiple pages of this thread. When presented with people trying to explain to you that you don't know what you're talking about, you ignore them and repeat the same statement with some other minor change in context. When presented with evidence to show you that you don't know what you are talking about, you misrepresent what it contains to claim it is proof that you are right after all. We're in the second console generation in a row where we don't even have to guess how powerful the consoles will be, because Sony and Microsoft both just yanked stuff off the shelf and tweaked it a bit; yet you're going on in this thread as if the PS4 is made out of some disaster of poorly documented boutique components whose true power is unlimited so long as the developers can figure out how to program for it.
Earn the respect.
you would have a GPU which is significantly slower; and further handicapped with less VRAM and with a less substantial featureset than RDNA 2.
View attachment 1016306
View attachment 1016305
PS5 would fall somewhere around the 6700/6800.
you have a CPU that is significantly weaker than any of the Zen2 platform models:
View attachment 1016307
Of which the PS5 would probably fall between the 3600 and the 3800. Meaning you would would combine to make a platform that had both a much weaker GPU (which is bottlenecked by low VRAM and featureset) and a much weaker CPU; which could very well begin struggling to play new games at all in the next year or so.
This is all spinning in circles a bit though, as the "best possible CPU available at the time" was far and away more powerful than Jaguar as it is and bringing up The Witcher 3 is irrelevant anyway, so want to move the goalposts somewhere else?
Or, put another way:
This amazing inference of all of the untapped power in the PS4's 8 year old refresh of an 11 year old netbook CPU is reminding me so much of the person on this forum who acted like a huge tech expert claiming for years that the PS4 was just a firmware patch away from being a 4K console.
As far as the entire history of the videogame industry is concerned and in the context of "will there be people to buy this videogame when it releases," there isn't a stock and production problem. The chip shortage has had such little practical effect on sales of the PS5 in terms of install base that no console in the entire history of the videogame industry has ever sold as well after 6 months; a trend that Sony has gone on record to say they expect will continue for the entire year following its release. And GT7 is a game that's probably a year and a half away still.
This is the context that you're bringing up for why it's something Sony needs to do to maintain profitability.
No, I think they're making the same mistake they made in 2013. And it doesn't seem like public perception is in their favor regarding it, just like it wasn't for Microsoft when they claimed they were doing the same thing in the fall of last year.
(All apologies to Steve for using his data in this way)
Hey man, this guy has no intentions of even listening to words of professionals like Digital Foundry that literally specialize in these kind of stuff. There's nothing you can tell him to change his mind. He's either a troll laughing his a** off or just completely ignorant with ZERO intention of listening, He is correct, period. Let's just ignore and move on...
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They're probably using the GTA5 model where PS3/360 versions were eventually phased out due to hardware capability.
TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
- Australia
One thing people have touched on here is that next gen titles means more than just "GFX".
Sony and Microsoft sold their asses on next gen games needing Gen 4 NVME 5gb/sec whatever transfer speeds.
Oh btw. we will make it compatible with the Ps4's 5,400rpm sata 500gb hdd!
My feeling about cross gen games is a bit poisoned by my experience with Forza Horizon 2 but I dont think Sony will go down that path.
I think PD will make this work. I am convinced that PS4 will hold back the title to some degree but not by much.... OR their grand vision wasnt that ambitious in the first place. We're looking at a GT7 which has single player elements from GT4 but has GT Sport online. That's it.
There's nothing there that needs ps5 power... as long as you're happy with fhd60 on ps4.
Sony and Microsoft sold their asses on next gen games needing Gen 4 NVME 5gb/sec whatever transfer speeds.
Oh btw. we will make it compatible with the Ps4's 5,400rpm sata 500gb hdd!
My feeling about cross gen games is a bit poisoned by my experience with Forza Horizon 2 but I dont think Sony will go down that path.
I think PD will make this work. I am convinced that PS4 will hold back the title to some degree but not by much.... OR their grand vision wasnt that ambitious in the first place. We're looking at a GT7 which has single player elements from GT4 but has GT Sport online. That's it.
There's nothing there that needs ps5 power... as long as you're happy with fhd60 on ps4.
- 1,306
- Canada
The article for this thread makes everything clear but I wanted to add that even though the PS5 has lower storage capacity on its SSD, advanced compression techniques have allowed for smaller file sizes. I can see the PS5 version being smaller or maybe roughly equal to in size of the PS4 version. @Famine
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- Stanc06
5 was way better than 6. Do you not remember what happen with GT6.
- 571
- Italy
I hope PD (and most importantly Sony, because i don't think PD wanted to be constrained by the ****** ps4 hardware) notice this article and this thread where you can clearly see the majority of the fans aren't happy about this cross gen stuff (not only here on GTP but pretty much everywhere people are of the same opinion about this)
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- 3,655
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- cowabungacorey
Which would basically be immediately lol
- 1,335
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- TEAM-SWD-daus26
Every new generation has been a leap in physics, with tweaks within generation. Sad that this will be crippled. I think the latest article pretty much touched up most of my concerns, maybe only grid size with different types of classes may also be effected by cross gen.
I think a lot of people don’t realize that GT needs to be run at 60fps minimum. There’s no such thing as 60fps performance mode lol.
Ratchet and Clank have proven that you can get both beautiful visuals and 60fps. Game looks gorgeous btw. And also… the game looks even better than initial trailer releases so imagine how GT7 could also improve as well. It seems so far cross gen games only get 60fps in “performance” mode.
If your expectation of GT7 is simply GT Sport with more cars and tracks and a traditional career mode, then rejoice I guess.
For the rest of us that expect more because it’s a new generation, RIP. Condolences to all that expected a true next gen experience with GT7.
I think a lot of people don’t realize that GT needs to be run at 60fps minimum. There’s no such thing as 60fps performance mode lol.
Ratchet and Clank have proven that you can get both beautiful visuals and 60fps. Game looks gorgeous btw. And also… the game looks even better than initial trailer releases so imagine how GT7 could also improve as well. It seems so far cross gen games only get 60fps in “performance” mode.
If your expectation of GT7 is simply GT Sport with more cars and tracks and a traditional career mode, then rejoice I guess.
For the rest of us that expect more because it’s a new generation, RIP. Condolences to all that expected a true next gen experience with GT7.
- 1,572
- Australia
- linksracer
I think the assumption currently is that the games will be Cross-platform, which means players on PS5 can play with players on PS4. So far almost all Cross-platform games have been identical outside of graphical differences and controller optimisation. So this precedent is being used to assume that GT7 will be the same on both consoles, which would mean GT7 has been "kneecapped" so that it will operate on the PS4 (unfortunately).
I personally would've thought they would want to encourage more people to buy a PS5 having GT7 be a PS5 exclusive instead of encouraging people to continue using the PS4 with a cross-platform game. I can only assume they have market research which is suggesting a cross-platform release will be more profitable. I guess the current excess demand for PS5 might be playing into the decision as well.
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- United Kingdom
Hopefully the backlash against this news will force a change of tact from Sony.
Basically they lied and Microsoft were made to look like the fools for admitting they planned on supporting cross-gen games for the first few years and Sony were the ones portraying themselves as the hero’s for pushing forward with PS5 exclusive titles. The lack of exclusive games going forward it quite concerning.
Part of me wonders if all this was done as a way of testing the waters as to how the reception would be if they did go the cross-gen route. The quote itself doesn’t seem to explicitly say, unless I’m missing something. It talks about Horizon, which was always going to be cross-gen, but then throws in GOW and GT7 as titles they’re looking into possibly seeing if they could come to PS4 as well as PS5.
Personally I don’t see the point. But if they had to feel the need to offer something to all the PS4 users as well as PS5, why not do a GT Sport 2 or Prologue for GT7 but with somewhat scaled back features if the machinery would hinder the features they had planned for GT7.
Would be a huge mistake if they decided to cut back on what GT7 could offer as an exclusive, just to be able to release it on 8/9 year old hardware. Unless they plan on releasing a barebones game like they did with GT Sport and then add features in post release patches, but surely then it would come to a point where they’d have to longer support the PS4 edition if they want to push things forward.
Basically they lied and Microsoft were made to look like the fools for admitting they planned on supporting cross-gen games for the first few years and Sony were the ones portraying themselves as the hero’s for pushing forward with PS5 exclusive titles. The lack of exclusive games going forward it quite concerning.
Part of me wonders if all this was done as a way of testing the waters as to how the reception would be if they did go the cross-gen route. The quote itself doesn’t seem to explicitly say, unless I’m missing something. It talks about Horizon, which was always going to be cross-gen, but then throws in GOW and GT7 as titles they’re looking into possibly seeing if they could come to PS4 as well as PS5.
Personally I don’t see the point. But if they had to feel the need to offer something to all the PS4 users as well as PS5, why not do a GT Sport 2 or Prologue for GT7 but with somewhat scaled back features if the machinery would hinder the features they had planned for GT7.
Would be a huge mistake if they decided to cut back on what GT7 could offer as an exclusive, just to be able to release it on 8/9 year old hardware. Unless they plan on releasing a barebones game like they did with GT Sport and then add features in post release patches, but surely then it would come to a point where they’d have to longer support the PS4 edition if they want to push things forward.
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