Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

[ScottPuss20]

The interest in last gen consoles is waning.

This is the thing that Sony seems to be overlooking. People want the PS5 because it's new and exciting whereas the PS4 is not. I will not play GT7 on the PS4 because I've had enough of it and I want to upgrade to the PS5 with it's superior loading times, 4K graphics and the Daulsense controller. That's why the decision to make GT7 cross-gen games is stupid. The PS4 may be in abundance but that won't translate to many sales if people are bored with it. If 30% are thinking of buying GT7 on PS4, then why doesn't Sony convince those buyers that they should buy a PS5 for it? I'm baffled. A full new-gen game will create more hype than a cross-gen game which will in turn drive sales for the PS5. Maybe Sony should hire me as Marketing Director.

 

[oneloops]

.

This is the thing that Sony seems to be overlooking. People want the PS5 because it's new and exciting whereas the PS4 is not. I will not play GT7 on the PS4 because I've had enough of it and I want to upgrade to the PS5 with it's superior loading times, 4K graphics and the Daulsense controller. That's why the decision to make GT7 cross-gen games is stupid. The PS4 may be in abundance but that won't translate to many sales if people are bored with it. If 30% are thinking of buying GT7 on PS4, then why doesn't Sony convince those buyers that they should buy a PS5 for it? I'm baffled. A full new-gen game will create more hype than a cross-gen game which will in turn drive sales for the PS5. Maybe Sony should hire me as Marketing Directo

Even a small/medium impovement in GT7 from GTS on PS4 (what is logic) + all the new content, it worthwhile for PS4 users.

PC games have always done adapted to old and new graphic cards and old and new cpus, it's not such a problem to take the most of PS5.

Also we use to ignore the software improvements, look what UE5 achieves on a 6 years graphic card compared to UE4
It's huge ! Running in the same "old" hardware. Btw UE5 has support for PS4 for other games (not used in GT series).



If PD can improve not that much but a little part of this, the change is very noticeable.
We have to wait and see what PD can achieve with its software improvements.

Software is not a zero-sum game.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

PS5 is few and far between. Anyone willing to spend $1,000 for this $400 console needs their head examined! If they released GT7 on PS5, it would easily be THE worst Gran Turismo launch in history. It would be embarrassingly dismal! Blame it on the chip shortage or blame it on Covid if you want. But there is a very real reason we still haven’t seen PS5 in stores in the US. There’s a reason why Xbox consoles are readily available, and that’s because nobody wants it.

PS5, I will continue to wait. Perhaps when the first redesign and price drop comes out, that’s when I’ll buy one. I have been loyal to PlayStation because of one game, that’s GT. I have no reason to buy a PS5 right now AND there are still none available anyway.

 

[Vspectra]

.

Even a small/medium impovement in GT7 from GTS on PS4 (what is logic) + all the new content, it worthwhile for PS4 users.

PC games have always done adapted to old and new graphic cards and old and new cpus, it's not such a problem to take the most of PS5.

Also we use to ignore the software improvements, look what UE5 achieves on a 6 years graphic card compared to UE4
It's huge ! Running in the same "old" hardware. Btw UE5 has support for PS4 for other games (not used in GT series).



If PD can improve not that much but a little part of this, the change is very noticeable.
We have to wait and see what PD can achieve with its software improvements.

Software is not a zero-sum game.

UE5 is not rendering 10 billion triangles in that video. Nanite is just adjusting LOD on the fly instead of devs having to make separate LOD models. It's rendering the same amount of detail/triangles any other engine has been doing on that level of GPU, and the amount of detail nanite provides scales up or down with resolution. Visually there isn't anything impressive in that vid, and the biggest difference is Lumen's lighting which is what caused the PS5 tech demo to run at 1080p 30fps; they didn't even bother turning that on in this video.

PC comparison doesn't make sense considering the developer gives the users a choice in scaling down performance. GT7 on a base PS4 will always have to run at a near stable 60fps, so the assets and graphical features will be designed to accommodate that 60fps requirement. Most devs have always used console hardware as min spec for the PC version, they never design assets and features for the strongest gpu and then scale down. Unreal Engine 4 initially had SVOGI real-time global illumination lighting integrated in the engine during its reveal tech demos. It was completely scrapped from the engine and replaced with a cheaper less impressive GI solution that relied on pre-bakes once last gen consoles came out and couldn’t actually run SVOGI GI.

 

[ImaRobot]

PC games have always done adapted to old and new graphic cards and old and new cpus, it's not such a problem to take the most of PS5.

Yeah, except things like demanding features and whatnot aren't held back on PC because someone's computer might not be able to run it, like it works on consoles. All the features on PC will be able to be produced, and it is up to the user how pretty they want their game to look after that if they aren't up to par with the minimum requirements. Some PC's wont even be able to run the game, but you wont see PC games dumbing down features and holding back because of it, much like you would on cross-generational games. It will not be possible to take the most of the PS5 in this case. What you'll get is the most of the PS4/Pro with the PS5 just looking superior in visual fidelity/Frames and that's likely it.

EDIT: Realized I was basically treed by @Vspectra

There’s a reason why Xbox consoles are readily available, and that’s because nobody wants it.

Xbox consoles aren't readily available.

 

[McLaren]

This is the thing that Sony seems to be overlooking. People want the PS5 because it's new and exciting whereas the PS4 is not. I will not play GT7 on the PS4 because I've had enough of it and I want to upgrade to the PS5 with it's superior loading times, 4K graphics and the Daulsense controller. That's why the decision to make GT7 cross-gen games is stupid. The PS4 may be in abundance but that won't translate to many sales if people are bored with it. If 30% are thinking of buying GT7 on PS4, then why doesn't Sony convince those buyers that they should buy a PS5 for it? I'm baffled. A full new-gen game will create more hype than a cross-gen game which will in turn drive sales for the PS5. Maybe Sony should hire me as Marketing Director.

Because for many folks, money is a huge factor. A lot of people don't want to dish out $400-$500 on a console for 1 game. Some people don't have the money to do so if they want to. It certainly also doesn't help that PS5 availability is still scare at the moment, and I'd wager a majority of people definitely prefer not to dish out the insane asking prices for them right now. A quick Google shows prices from $550 at Elsneic to $1,179 at WalMart.

30% of people is a sizeable share of your base to stop & look into why they may not want to buy a PS5 for GT7.

 

[Dolby89]

GT Sport still bugging out, years after release... coming home from work, i've been "playing" for two hours today. Didn't do an actual race. Only waiting for players and warming up. Joining lobbies, players leaving, people with full lobbies not starting, pit stop Bottas AI, starting bug. Probably going to have a soft moment but as of now, GT7 can **** off. If its coming for PS4, i ain't buying it. Sick of it wasting my lifetime.

Sorry for the rant, im out.

 

[oneloops]

UE5 is not rendering 10 billion triangles in that video. Nanite is just adjusting LOD on the fly instead of devs having to make separate LOD models. It's rendering the same amount of detail/triangles any other engine has been doing on that level of GPU, and the amount of detail nanite provides scales up or down with resolution. Visually there isn't anything impressive in that vid, and the biggest difference is Lumen's lighting which is what caused the PS5 tech demo to run at 1080p 30fps; they didn't even bother turning that on in this video.

PC comparison doesn't make sense considering the developer gives the users a choice in scaling down performance. GT7 on a base PS4 will always have to run at a near stable 60fps, so the assets and graphical features will be designed to accommodate that 60fps requirement. Most devs have always used console hardware as min spec for the PC version, they never design assets and features for the strongest gpu and then scale down. Unreal Engine 4 initially had SVOGI real-time global illumination lighting integrated in the engine during its reveal tech demos. It was completely scrapped from the engine and replaced with a cheaper less impressive GI solution that relied on pre-bakes once last gen consoles came out and couldn’t actually run SVOGI GI.

"The result of the video is nothing impressive" ... LOL

PC comparison makes sense because there would be three presets/versions : ps4, ps4pro and ps5

Most of assets are already created in GTS ps4 (and overdetailed for ps5 as you can see in photo mode )

If a feature doesn't work well, engineers do it other way in order to work. Software is always improving.

What seems impossible today it can be possible tomorrow on the same hardware. SVOGI GI included, only seeing improvements over time in UE4, UE5, cycles, Cycles-X, Eevee... using the same hardware you notice it.

 

[oneloops]

Yeah, except things like demanding features and whatnot aren't held back on PC because someone's computer might not be able to run it, like it works on consoles. All the features on PC will be able to be produced, and it is up to the user how pretty they want their game to look after that if they aren't up to par with the minimum requirements. Some PC's wont even be able to run the game, but you wont see PC games dumbing down features and holding back because of it, much like you would on cross-generational games. It will not be possible to take the most of the PS5 in this case. What you'll get is the most of the PS4/Pro with the PS5 just looking superior in visual fidelity/Frames and that's likely it.

EDIT: Realized I was basically treed by @Vspectra


Xbox consoles aren't readily available.

"It will not be possible to take the most of ps5 " ... but in pc games it's possible... so in ps5 too. Very often you have quite low minimum specs on pc for games.

It only depends on how you do it, you can deliver a bad version on ps5 or a good version, it's about decisions and improving software performance on both, new and old hardware as ALL softwares can do with good developpement (for example unreal engine and cycles in blender do it).

On the physics side, online you see a simplified telemetry export from others user... and with lag...

It's not a problem if one user runs a 200 cycles/second physics version and other one runs a 400 cycles/second physics version as what everyone see (and interact with) is a simplified telemetry export of the others.

About dynamic time and weather PD only has to use in ps4 another render technique than in gts. It doesn't mean that it should be uglier or worse than actual GTS, it can be almost the same but a little different as when you change a render engine for another one.

 

[BigSarj]

Because for many folks, money is a huge factor. A lot of people don't want to dish out $400-$500 on a console for 1 game. Some people don't have the money to do so if they want to. It certainly also doesn't help that PS5 availability is still scare at the moment, and I'd wager a majority of people definitely prefer not to dish out the insane asking prices for them right now. A quick Google shows prices from $550 at Elsneic to $1,179 at WalMart.

30% of people is a sizeable share of your base to stop & look into why they may not want to buy a PS5 for GT7.

If you're new to consoles, then I can understand why you feel this way. But such is the nature of consoles; when the new one comes out, you eventually buy it or you choose not to and stick with the older games. That's how it has always been. I have a buddy who, until I sold him my PS4 Pro recently, was perfectly content playing Gran Turismo 3 on the PS2.

Also, keep in mind that GT7 is not out for a long time yet. I know that times are tough for a lot of people but if someone is buying the PS5 just for one game which may not be released until 2023, it does give those who really want a PS5 some time to budget accordingly.

 

[McLaren]

If you're new to consoles, then I can understand why you feel this way. But such is the nature of consoles; when the new one comes out, you eventually buy it or you choose not to and stick with the older games. That's how it has always been. I have a buddy who, until I sold him my PS4 Pro recently, was perfectly content playing Gran Turismo 3 on the PS2.

Also, keep in mind that GT7 is not out for a long time yet. I know that times are tough for a lot of people but if someone is buying the PS5 just for one game which may not be released until 2023, it does give those who really want a PS5 some time to budget accordingly.

I'm not new to consoles, I'm literally pointing out a financial reason people don't make the switch and you're practically re-enforcing my point by stating another reason the 30% have not moved onto the PS5.

 

[oneloops]

I'm not new to consoles, I'm literally pointing out a financial reason people don't make the switch and you're practically re-enforcing my point by stating another reason the 30% have not moved onto the PS5.

When GT7 will launch we will see how many want to move to PS5.

Other important point is the PSVR2 release that can make GT7 on ps5 a huge experience compared to the ps4 version.

 

[Dogwolf77]

I’m disappointed, Sony is going to get killed by Microsoft in the motor sport arena. Not to mention the PS5 I have had for months just waiting is really like a second PS4 now. Forza 8 is adding tire pressure, track temperature, atmospheric pressure, altitude, and on and on. All the stuff that brings real strategy into a competition.

When FIA sees Forza, are they going to stick with PD? You really need to see this article.

https://www.windowscentral.com/forza-motorsport-8

Sucks for me because there’s no way I will be able to play unless I find someone to buy my PS5. Basically, Its like I have 2 PS4 consoles at this point. All the other games have the same cross compatibility issues.

 

[snc]

I’m disappointed, Sony is going to get killed by Microsoft in the motor sport arena. Not to mention the PS5 I have had for months just waiting is really like a second PS4 now. Forza 8 is adding tire pressure, track temperature, atmospheric pressure, altitude, and on and on. All the stuff that brings real strategy into a competition.

When FIA sees Forza, are they going to stick with PD? You really need to see this article.

https://www.windowscentral.com/forza-motorsport-8

Sucks for me because there’s no way I will be able to play unless I find someone to buy my PS5. Basically, Its like I have 2 PS4 consoles at this point. All the other games have the same cross compatibility issues.

can't see tire pressure as a good idea in casual sim, so you will need proper setup to adjust it proparly ? if so they will kill major advantage of casual sims (pick and play) otherwise it will be just gimmick

 

[MroczMR]

To be honest most of this promises for Forza 8 looks like typical boasting "OH HOW REALISTIC WE ARE" and when the game comes out it will be another forza evolution not revolution. Just wait and see. GT and Forza aren't full on sim racing, those things aren't crucial to have fun in this games. I just hope new Assetto Corsa or Pcars 4 won't be cross gen and that's it. Forza and GT should stay in its "simcade" place.

 

[oneloops]

can't see tire pressure as a good idea in casual sim, so you will need proper setup to adjust it proparly ? if so they will kill major advantage of casual sims (pick and play) otherwise it will be just gimmick

We can pick and play in AC, ACC and iRacing without problems on tire pressures.

 

[Alterlight]

Imagine releasing a game on a hardware that is 8 years old, simply thinking about this fact is underwhelming. Just look at Forza Horizon 2 on xbox 360 for a really good example.
So simply some things will not be there for GT7 on ps4, because seeing how GTS on the same platform has pop-ins (little, but still), no TOD, reduced LOD on cars on track, some 2d trees and etc. So there is no room for improvement at all.

-Ray tracing, simply an ad for a new consoles, i think maybe they'll include it in cutscenes, menus and etc, but generally I haven't seen it in a gameplay footage trailer, maybe it's too early for that. But it allow for cars to look even more realistic and then maybe at rain we can finally beat these "GTA V 8K RTX GRAPHICS"
-It'll take too much time, developing two versions, different LODs of tracks, cars and etc, it'll just take time and knowing PD's nature with GT titles it's just a crime to do that.
-Every newer generation GT title improved on physics by some amount, so cross-gen just might be a copy paste from GTs, maybe with some little tweaks, they can't do different on PS4/PS5, because multiplayer so there is a drawback, again.
-SSD, simply SSD.
-Dynamic weather, time. Kaz himself said that GTS didn't have it, because Ps4 was too weak for it to maintain 60fps, so here is another long awaited feature will be gone, because cross-gen
-New generation graphics, better trees, environments, which where maybe fine in GTS at some point, but again there is just no room for improvement in GT7.
-PS5 utilities new method of shorting space on games, by not doing different LODs. I can't imagine how much space will take GT7 on ps4, with let's say 600 cars and maybe 10 more tracks then in GTS
-Dualsense features
-3D audio features
So whoever wishes GT7 on ps4, I'll literally develop a time machine and then replace Kaz and develop GT5 on ps2 and will give that version to everyone who wishes cross-gen.
My opinion would be release a paid dlc for GTS, for like maybe 10-15 bucks with some new tracks/cars. GTS has sold around 9kk copies, so they'll earn something from it.

 

[snc]

We can pick and play in AC, ACC and iRacing without problems on tire pressures.

acc easy to pick and play ? good luck with that

 

[oneloops]

Imagine releasing a game on a hardware that is 8 years old, simply thinking about this fact is underwhelming. Just look at Forza Horizon 2 on xbox 360 for a really good example.
So simply some things will not be there for GT7 on ps4, because seeing how GTS on the same platform has pop-ins (little, but still), no TOD, reduced LOD on cars on track, some 2d trees and etc. So there is no room for improvement at all.

-Ray tracing, simply an ad for a new consoles, i think maybe they'll include it in cutscenes, menus and etc, but generally I haven't seen it in a gameplay footage trailer, maybe it's too early for that. But it allow for cars to look even more realistic and then maybe at rain we can finally beat these "GTA V 8K RTX GRAPHICS"
-It'll take too much time, developing two versions, different LODs of tracks, cars and etc, it'll just take time and knowing PD's nature with GT titles it's just a crime to do that.
-Every newer generation GT title improved on physics by some amount, so cross-gen just might be a copy paste from GTs, maybe with some little tweaks, they can't do different on PS4/PS5, because multiplayer so there is a drawback, again.
-SSD, simply SSD.
-Dynamic weather, time. Kaz himself said that GTS didn't have it, because Ps4 was too weak for it to maintain 60fps, so here is another long awaited feature will be gone, because cross-gen
-New generation graphics, better trees, environments, which where maybe fine in GTS at some point, but again there is just no room for improvement in GT7.
-PS5 utilities new method of shorting space on games, by not doing different LODs. I can't imagine how much space will take GT7 on ps4, with let's say 600 cars and maybe 10 more tracks then in GTS
-Dualsense features
-3D audio features
So whoever wishes GT7 on ps4, I'll literally develop a time machine and then replace Kaz and develop GT5 on ps2 and will give that version to everyone who wishes cross-gen.
My opinion would be release a paid dlc for GTS, for like maybe 10-15 bucks with some new tracks/cars. GTS has sold around 9kk copies, so they'll earn something from it.

In software there is always room for improvements. You can see the example posted before with UE4 and UE5 on a 6 years old gpu.

You can see it with cycles,Cycles-X and eevee on blender. Improving the performances in new and old hardwares.

Dynamic time and weather can be done in gt7 on ps4. Only changing render techniques.

acc easy to pick and play ? good luck with that 😉

Thank you. I have improved the real record in Kyalami with no custom setup picking the first car I wanted (M6)

 

[Samus]

In software there is always room for improvements. You can see the example posted before with UE4 and UE5 on an 6 years old gpu.

You can see it with cycles,Cycles-X and eevee on blender. Improving the performances in new and old hardwares.

Dynamic time and weather can be done in gt7 on ps4. Only changing render techniques.

Are you still pretending a hardware wall never exists? First party devs have been working with PS4 for 9+ years, they're not suddenly going to make any major improvements at this stage.

 

[oneloops]

Are you still pretending a hardware wall never exists?

Are you still pretending GTS is the maximum performance possible in PS4 ?

PD works with their own render engine, they can improve it if they want.

 

[ArR29]

I’m disappointed, Sony is going to get killed by Microsoft in the motor sport arena. Not to mention the PS5 I have had for months just waiting is really like a second PS4 now. Forza 8 is adding tire pressure, track temperature, atmospheric pressure, altitude, and on and on. All the stuff that brings real strategy into a competition.

When FIA sees Forza, are they going to stick with PD? You really need to see this article.

https://www.windowscentral.com/forza-motorsport-8

Sucks for me because there’s no way I will be able to play unless I find someone to buy my PS5. Basically, Its like I have 2 PS4 consoles at this point. All the other games have the same cross compatibility issues.

We basically know nothing about GT7 at this point, to be fair. We don't know what physics improvements we're gonna get.

 

[TS050]

Are you still pretending GTS is the maximum performance possible in PS4 ?

PD works with their own render engine, they can improve it if they want.

GTS can occasionally drop frames on the original PS4. Nobody is saying that the game completely maxes out the console, but it’s clear that we’re very close to what is possible before we start to sacrifice frame rate - probably not the best move when GTS itself had to sacrifice features in pursuit of a locked 60fps

 

[Samus]

Are you still pretending GTS is the maximum performance possible in PS4 ?

PD works with their own render engine, they can improve it if they want.

Not by any huge margins. It's not like GTS was a launch title. The way you talk if PD kept working with PS4 by 2025 they'd have it looking as good as PS5. There is always a limit and there is no reason to think PD weren't already close to it after 5 years developing.

 

[oneloops]

GTS can occasionally drop frames on the original PS4. Nobody is saying that the game completely maxes out the console, but it’s clear that we’re very close to what is possible before we start to sacrifice frame rate - probably not the best move when GTS itself had to sacrifice features in pursuit of a locked 60fps

Not by any huge margins. It's not like GTS was a launch title. The way you talk if PD kept working with PS4 by 2025 they'd have it looking as good as PS5. There is always a limit and there is no reason to think PD weren't already close to it after 5 years developing.

If you look for example the video I linked before about Unreal Engine 4 vs Unreal Engine 5 on a 6 years old GPU you will see that what it was not possible yesterday in a hardware it's possible today with the same hardware, other examples posted about Cycles improvements in the same old hardware.

PD can use their ultimate render engine version adapted to PS4 in order to improve GTS render engine, desactivating raytracing and others parametres.
Or, if it is not possible, at least PD can use new techniques and learning from this last 4 years for improve the GTS render engine.

I don't know how you can underestimate software potential, we see it every day !

The video is upside this page, and it proves that what you think it was already close to the limit it's not.
Unreal Engine 4 was developped for 9 or more years ! You could think UE4 was close to the limit on an old hardware,... of course not, UE5 do it better on the same old hardware... and by a huge margin. x100 or x500 triangles on screen at similar fps is a huge improvement

 

[Samus]

Yes, I've seen you post that several times. Do you have any actual real world examples, not tech demos? We always see improvements as a generation goes on but they tail off pretty quickly once the ceiling is reached.

 

[oneloops]

Yes, I've seen you post that several times. Do you have any actual real world examples, not tech demos? We always see improvements as a generation goes on but they tail off pretty quickly once the ceiling is reached.

You are obsessed with walls and ceilings LOL

The "demo" or beta is working and you can test it yourself.
You also have cycles X and cycles available to download and test if you don't trust anything.

Huge improvements on the same hardware :

 

[Dave A]

You've missed his point, outside of the controlled tech demo what improvements are we likely to see? In particular what will we see on PS4 in the next 12 months we haven't already seen? Nothing significant, that's what.

There are important things the PS5 can do beyond just better graphics, that are not possible on PS4. You have more memory, faster memory, faster data loading times, faster rendering times, more floating points per second, if PD want to showcase a truely next gen Gran Turismo they cannot make it cross gen.

Of course, there will be some things that could theoretically still be improved on from GTS on PS4 without nuking the console, but there are not major improvements. If that scope were there we'd have seen evidence of it by now in other games.

It's not an issue of maximising the console, it's a case of prioritising what you want to push and what you're willing to sacrifice. We will not see GT7 on PS4 running at 60fps with dynaic time and weather. It's possible, but you won't see it at 60fps because that's what PD have prioritised.

 

[oneloops]

You've missed his point, outside of the controlled tech demo what improvements are we likely to see? In particular what will we see on PS4 in the next 12 months we haven't already seen? Nothing significant, that's what.

There are important things the PS5 can do beyond just better graphics, that are not possible on PS4. You have more memory, faster memory, faster data loading times, faster rendering times, more floating points per second, if PD want to showcase a truely next gen Gran Turismo they cannot make it cross gen.

Of course, there will be some things that could theoretically still be improved on from GTS on PS4 without nuking the console, but there are not major improvements. If that scope were there we'd have seen evidence of it by now in other games.

It's not an issue of maximising the console, it's a case of prioritising what you want to push and what you're willing to sacrifice. We will not see GT7 on PS4 running at 60fps with dynaic time and weather. It's possible, but you won't see it at 60fps because that's what PD have prioritised.

It's all about PD decisions, they can sacrifice the PS5 version or they can deliver two good versions taking the most of each one being crossgen.
There are many evidences on PC games with low minimum specs and high recomended specs being crossgen.

Most of you are only assuming that PD will do it in the bad way, with sacrifices on PS5 version and a bad PS4 version...
I say that PD can do it well on the versions being crossgen.

Changing render techniques they can achieve 60 fps on GT7 ps4 version.

 

[Samus]

You are obsessed with walls and ceilings LOL

The "demo" or beta is working and you can test it yourself.
You also have cycles X and cycles available to download and test if you don't trust anything.

Huge improvements on the same hardware :

Yes, I'm "obsessed" with using words to describe things. 😕

How is faster rendering speed of a scene in a 3D modelling tool relevant to improvements with real time video game engines? It wasn't too long ago you seemed to understand that many improvements to GTS on PS5 would require an update to unblock the "limits" (Look, it's another one of those describing words) of the PS4.

It can be : higher distance view (in front and in car mirrors) , less tesselation (dropping down poligons at far distances) higher resolutions in reflections and more frame rate for reflections (30 fps in ps4 for the moment I think)

Also higher shadow resolutions in exterior and interior view, better anti-aliasing, etc
More details and more cars at the same time in VR mode...

But theese improvements need at least a small update I think, in order to unblock the limits done for PS4 and PS4 pro.

So do those limits not exist any more then?

Oh, I've just realised you're the guy who was adamant that GT7 could release in 2020 when it was already October. Not much point continuing this discussion further based on how that one went.