Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

[oneloops]

Driveclub - Dynamic TOD and weather, runs at 30fps

Assetto Corsa - Limited dynamic TOD, no weather, runs at an unstable 60fps with frequent drops

Assetto Corsa Competitione - Dynamic TOD and weather, but runs at 30fps

Project Cars 2 - Dynamic TOD and weather, runs at an unstable 60fps with frequent drops

GT Sport - Static time and weather, mostly locked at 60fps

how do you expect developers to somehow extract even more power out of the 9 year old hardware? Think about it a little instead of just posting another paragraph that wastes the time of anyone that reads it

Have you seen the videos about UE4 and UE5 and cycles on OLD GPUS that I posted before ?

That's how I can expect something, because I see today how RENDERING SOFTWARE has improved over the last years even on OLD GPUS.

Same answer for Imarobot

@Famine : even with a tiny little portion of what UE5 CyclesX and Unity have achieved and using other rendering techiques than used in GTS it can be ok for 1080p/dynamic weather/time etc on base PS4

I'm not mentally multiplying it by an order of magnitude and acting like it's possible everywhere, I see what developpers have achieved and it's logical at least a little PD improvement in 4 years. x2 in some performance areas it's not crazy

 

[TS050]

Have you seen the videos about UE4 and UE5 and cycles on OLD GPUS that I posted before ?

That's is how I can expect something, because I see today how it has improved over the last years even on OLD GPUS.

Same answer for Imarobot

Okay but the big issue is the CPU which can’t be scaled like the GPU or anything else can. The Jaguar-based CPU is the bottleneck and has been for sometime.

If you knew as much as you said you knew, maybe you’d understand that.

 

[CinnamonOD]

The hardware on the PS4 is just too old, what's there to not understand?

 

[Samus]

Have you seen the videos about UE4 and UE5 and cycles on OLD GPUS that I posted before ?

You're like a broken record. Show us someone making huge improvements with PS4 hardware, which is all that matters in the context of a video game on PS4. What other people do with other software and hardware is barely relevant.

Did Naughty Dog make huge strides between Uncharted 4 and Last Of Us 2? No, they made small enhancements here and there. They were both still 1080p 30fps with broadly the same visual fidelity and performance as they were both still constrained by THE WALL.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'm not mentally multiplying it by an order of magnitude and acting like it's possible everywhere, I see what developpers have achieved

Ok, so you don't see the contradiction there?

x2 in some performance areas it's not crazy

A 100% improvement in performance is not crazy for the PS4? Ok, you have to be literally trolling at this point. You got us good!

 

[Samus]

Even Saidur Ali wasn't quite this bad with his wild ideas of performance, although his waiting for Sony to flick the switch and enable 4K output on the original PS4 is quite close.

 

[Dave A]

Have you seen the videos about UE4 and UE5 and cycles on OLD GPUS that I posted before ?

That's how I can expect something, because I see today how RENDERING SOFTWARE has improved over the last years even on OLD GPUS.

Same answer for Imarobot

You're entire argument hinges on this UE5 improvement on a GPU that cost 20 times more than the one in the PS4 when new and is about half as old.

Yes, ultimatley improvements in techniques can make things possible that were not previousely, but we will not see that scale of improvement on PS4. It is not a power house, it wasn't when it released, and the hardware is considerably older that what you are providing as an example.

If that capability was there for PS4 we would have seen evidence of it, that is unless all the developers who still make games for PS4 are absolute morons who don't really know what they are doing.

GT Sport bottlenecks the PS4 in certain areas at times but not others, but as I said before, it's about priorities. PD could have dynamic time and weather, but they owuld not get native 1080p at 60fps. They would likely target a locked 30fps which is a big difference in processing power.

There is also far more at play than the GPU which you seem so intently focused on, you have read and write speeds, RAM speeds, core frequencies and those all important temperatues. GT Sport pushes the PS4 above 80°C as it is, you throw more at it and you'll get serious thermal throttling, not to mention if you've got a really old PS4 how less efficient the cooling on that may already be.

Stop focusing on this magical improvement that is to be had because of UE5 and look at what is actually being done on PS4. There's your proof, there's your application, the PS4 hardware has has it's day in terms of innovation and technical improvement.

Besides that, even if (and it is a big if) someone did think of an idea to develop a new engine that could theoretically get a lot more out of the PS4 it's highly possible we would never see it due to cost and return when we're in the middle of a shift to the new generation.

 

[oneloops]

You're like a broken record. Show us someone making huge improvements with PS4 hardware, which is all that matters in the context of a video game on PS4. What other people do with other software and hardware is barely relevant.

Did Naughty Dog make huge strides between Uncharted 4 and Last Of Us 2? No, they made small enhancements here and there. They were both still 1080p 30fps with broadly the same visual fidelity and performance as they were both still constrained by THE WALL.

UE5 has support for future PS4 games, you should see what it's capable in a 6 years old GPU
Your wall is the broken record. Open your mind a little.



@DaveA or simply adapting to PS4 the render engine used in GT7 on PS5, no need to develop a new render engine

Magical improvement UE5 and CYCLES X ? LOL

 

[Samus]

Oh look, it's that same tech demo for the 50th time.

 

[ImaRobot]

Oh look, it's that same tech demo for the 50th time.

The more it's posted, the more it becomes true. Didn't you know that? In the event that you end up being wrong, post the same thing 100 times and you'll eventually convince everyone!

 

[oneloops]

Oh look, it's that same tech demo for the 50th time.

Oh look it's the same guy who doesn't understand that video and keeps seeing walls when it's proven that previous hardware limits can be surpassed

 

[Darla Starch]

Hmmm, should I make my own tenuous claim and run it into the ground with the same three arguements?

 

[oneloops]

The more it's posted, the more it becomes true. Didn't you know that? In the event that you end up being wrong, post the same thing 100 times and you'll eventually convince everyone!

Now UE5 and CYCLES X improvements are wrong ... LOL

 

[ImaRobot]

Now UE5 and CYCLES X improvements are wrong ... LOL

Nice, keep it going! only 20 more times to go.

 

[Dave A]

Oh look it's the same guy that doesn't understand that video and keeps seeing walls when it's proven that previous hardware limits can be surpassed

No, a hardware limit cannot be surpassed. That is the maximum limit of what piece of hardware can acheive in it's current state.

Stop posting asinine repsonses, if you want to discuss this further read what people are posting and respond to their points. You've missed most of them, I suspect purposfully. If you can't do that, go and troll elsewhere.

 

[ImaRobot]

No, a hardware limit cannot be surpassed. That is the maximum limit of what piece of hardware can acheive in it's current state.

Stop posting asinine repsonses, if you want to discuss this further read what people are posting and respond to their points. You've missed most of them, I suspect purposfully. If you can't do that, go and troll elsewhere.

He's been trolling since the start, and he always is in most his discussions. He's actively avoided every single thing posted, literally ignoring them and responding with some stupid snide comment instead, and also resorted to posting poo emojis on on every post he doesn't like because his obviously incapable of doing just that.

 

[CinnamonOD]

UE5 has support for future PS4 games, you should see what it's capable in a 6 years old GPU 😉 😉 😉

OK, UE5 supports PS4 games, alright

Do you think because it runs better now on dated PC components, it'll run just as well on even older console hardware, which at the time of release was already dated?
More importantly
What does that have to do with PD and GTS? They have their own game engine and as far as I can see it works really well

Unless you're implying that PD should switch to UE5?

 

[Nowax]

Imagine running UE5 on a Voodoo GPU

 

[Dave A]

For example, x million triangles it's called "a hardware limit", other not capable to run one game at 60 fps and 4K because "the hardware limit"

That's what can be surpassed, with software improvements. You know it, of course

If the hardware can do it, then you didn't reach that limit previousely. Best example I can think of is the thermal threshold for a chip, say for simplicity 100°C, if you exceed that you melt the CPU. That's it's limit. You might have a game that is 2d sprite based, poorly optomised that pushes that chip to 95°C where it throttles to stop you hitting the 100°C limit. You've reached the limit. That doesn't mean a better optimised 3d game can't push more onto the screen and keep the temps of that same chip below 90°C.

By creating a better optimised game you have not exceeded the hardware limit, you have simply more effectively used what the hardware can do.

Software, such as a game engine, like UE5, may make use of better techniques and more optomised processes to run better within the limits of what the hardware can do, but it does not exceed those limits.

But your entire argument hinges on the fact that PS4 developers are morons. If they weren't then we would be seeing this improvement on a 13 year old budget GPU by now.

 

[ImaRobot]

By creating a better optimised game you have not exceeded the hardware limit, you have simply more effectively used what the hardware can do.

Or made compromises in order to achieve that. Which, if they are able to achieve what he's getting at, they will need to make some pretty big ones.

 

[Sojiira]

But your entire argument hinges on the fact that PS4 developers are morons. If they weren't then we would be seeing this improvement on a 13 year old budget GPU by now.

Is that his argument?
I'm not sure what everyone is going on about although its good to see people keeping it going. I thought his point was theres possible improvements to be made... well yeah. ok. 👍

 

[ImaRobot]

Is that his argument?
I'm not sure what everyone is going on about although its good to see people keeping it going. I thought his point was theres possible improvements to be made... well yeah. ok. 👍

He's going about it as if the developers don't know what they're doing that's why we haven't seen improvements, and that these suggestions will help them do what he's claiming. He's acting like a whole team of developers is unknown to the limits of the hardware they've been working on for almost a decade, and for a game that has been out for 4 years, and that he knows how to fix it. He very well doesn't know more than them, so him bringing these things up as if they'd help them is blind optimism at best, and egotistical at worst. These people are going to know way more than what he's posting about, and if such things were possible, we would have seen them.

 

[Dave A]

Is that his argument?
I'm not sure what everyone is going on about although its good to see people keeping it going. I thought his point was theres possible improvements to be made... well yeah. ok. 👍

No one is denying that there is scope for further improvements in the way you optomise and develop for older hardware, PS4 included, it's the scale of improvements being touted that is out there and being challeneged. If that scale of improvement were possible on 13 year old budget hardware, we'd be seeing evidence of it. Not tech demos on £4k GPU's that are less than half that age, actual evidence, gameplay on PS4.

UE5 isn't that new, developers have been using it a while and we are seeing plenty of games using it, but I'm yet to see a PS4 game that blows everything else that came before on PS4 out of the water on a technical/graphical level.

 

[Sojiira]

He's going about it as if the developers don't know what they're doing that's why we haven't seen improvements, and that these suggestions will help them do what he's claiming. He's acting like a whole team of developers is unknown to the limits of the hardware they've been working on for almost a decade, and for a game that has been out for 4 years, and that he knows how to fix it.

Where?

No one is denying that there is scope for further improvements in the way you optomise and develop for older hardware, PS4 included, it's the scale of improvements being touted that is out there and being challeneged. If that scale of improvement were possible on 13 year old budget hardware, we'd be seeing evidence of it. Not tech demos on £4k GPU's that are less than half that age, actual evidence, gameplay on PS4.

UE5 isn't that new, developers have ben using it a while and we are seeing plenty of games using it, but I'm yet to see a PS4 game that blows everything else that came before on PS4 out of the water on a technical/graphical level.

UE5 is not even officially released. No game has come out using it.

 

[ImaRobot]

Where?

It's been the whole discussion. It's there for you to read and catch up on if you'd like to follow the discussion. It starts on Page 45.

 

[Dave A]

Where?

UE5 is not even officially released. No game has come out using it.

I never said any games have come out, I said I've seen them. There are several games in development using UE5, none of which show off amazing improvements on PS4. Developers have had access to UE5 for a while and are using it and developing games with it.

 

[Sojiira]

It's been the whole discussion. It's there for you to read and catch up on if you'd like to follow the discussion. It starts on Page 45.

Oh so him pointing towards other devs and the improvements they have made equals to PD being morons and not knowing what they are doing?

I never said any games ave come out, I said I've seen them. There are several games in developemtn using UE5, none of which show off amazing improvements on PS4. Developers have had access to UE5 for a while and are using it and developing games with it.

Gotcha, what games are being made on ue5 and releasing on ps4?

 

[ImaRobot]

Oh so him pointing towards other devs and the improvements they have made equals to PD being morons and not knowing what they are doing?

No, him pretending that they are incapable and have done nothing to make improvements so far means they haven't looked into it and that there is still room for them to grow so massively is what makes the insinuation. That the devs who actually work on the consoles and games themselves don't know what he does, and some random person on an internet forum is going to know better than them.

Do you just come into these discussions to talk about what someone said about someone else's post about someone else's post about someone elses post or do you have something to add to the actual subject? Every interaction plays out the same way when you post.

 

[Dave A]

Oh so him pointing towards other devs and the improvements they have made equals to PD being morons and not knowing what they are doing?

Gotcha, what games are being made on ue5 and releasing on ps4?

No, stop putitng words into my mouth.

 

[Sojiira]

No, him pretending that they are incapable and have done nothing to make improvements so far means they haven't looked into it and that there is still room for them to grow so massively is what makes the insinuation. That the devs who actually work on the consoles and games themselves don't know what he does, and some random person on an internet forum is going to know better than them.

Do you just come into these discussions to talk about what someone said about someone else's post about someone else's post about someone elses post or do you have something to add to the actual subject? Every interaction plays out the same way when you post.

Ok. You quoted me bud. I was just asking questions.

Nice, keep it going! only 20 more times to go.

👍

No, stop putitng words into my mouth.

So towards my original question?