Gran Turismo 7 Engine Swap Compatibility

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cvjoint
1. Yes and no.

Before I bought it, I asked around the paddock C6 ZR1 owners whether they have heat issues. I was told to rest assured, it's not a problem. C6 ZR1 cooling is nearly identical to C7 Z06, and power output is nearly identical. What I realized after the purchase is that most drive parade laps, or don't talk about the shortcomings of their car, but mostly parade laps. You can drive these 20 seconds a lap of pace side by side with Miatas and they cool just fine. You can also drive warm up lap, a good pace hot lap, cool down lap and they do alright as well.
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Disagree on your observations, at least from the 1 person I know with a C6 ZR1 (admittedly a horrible sample size). He tracks it all the time, mainly at COTA, and has never had any cooling issues. From what I can tell it's widely known that the C6 ZR1 doesn't have cooling issues but the C7 Z06 does. Chevy really messed up with that specific model.

You can make engines reliable for very long periods of time on track, takes proper design. And I say that as someone that blew up a Porsche engine (from oil starvation) despite taking all the published starvation precautions. And I was on street tires. (So kiss my a** Porsche, never again).
 
WolfpackS2k
Disagree on your observations, at least from the 1 person I know with a C6 ZR1 (admittedly a horrible sample size). He tracks it all the time, mainly at COTA, and has never had any cooling issues. From what I can tell it's widely known that the C6 ZR1 doesn't have cooling issues but the C7 Z06 does. Chevy really messed up with that specific model.

You can make engines reliable for very long periods of time on track, takes proper design. And I say that as someone that blew up a Porsche engine (from oil starvation) despite taking all the published starvation precautions. And I was on street tires. (So kiss my a** Porsche, never again).
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The C6 ZR1 has a single 1 inch deep radiator stuck behind an intercooler heat exchanger and the usual AC core. The C7 Z06 has exactly the same cooling package design, I think the surface area is 10% smaller but has better ducting. In any case, practically the same. Nearly the same HP and engine design. If one has cooling problems the other will too, you don't have to drive them. 1 person experience at a high speed track (COTA). Again, most drivers won't have cooling issues in C7 Z06 either, it's how you drive it that reveals underengineering. Did everyone that drove your Porsche model have oil starvation? I'm guessing not, but I would agree with you that it is a problem in that model.
 
You know a wet sump that has baffling designed correctly is more efficient than a dry sump, dry sump needs extra pulleys taking HP away, adding weight and running lines that could have issues with heat sources being too close.

If you know how to design a wet sump properly it can be better than a dry sump, I think track day forum warriors need to stop worrying about what other people have experienced and rather focus on their own car if it’s wet or dry…

But again this is a GT thread where non of this matters, so maybe leave the ego at the door @cvjoint
 
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cvjoint
The C6 ZR1 has a single 1 inch deep radiator stuck behind an intercooler heat exchanger and the usual AC core. The C7 Z06 has exactly the same cooling package design, I think the surface area is 10% smaller but has better ducting. In any case, practically the same. Nearly the same HP and engine design. If one has cooling problems the other will too, you don't have to drive them. 1 person experience at a high speed track (COTA). Again, most drivers won't have cooling issues in C7 Z06 either, it's how you drive it that reveals underengineering. Did everyone that drove your Porsche model have oil starvation? I'm guessing not, but I would agree with you that it is a problem in that model.
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I think the C6 has better engine bay airflow than the C7. Plus the C7 Z06 weighs several hundred pounds more. COTA is high speed but it's also Texas (lol, hot!). Otherwise beats me as I've never heard from anywhere (online) stating C6 ZR1s have cooling problems. For my Porsche, it's not something that happens to every M97. However there was another Cayman at the same event as me, who didn't have any aftermarket oiling support modifications, running on STICKIER tires than me...and he had no problems. :ouch:
 
DJSPARKZ93
"It would be nice for GT team to get a pulse on what's acceptable for a fully tuned engine from a tuner.

Windsor-351-Maverick makes way too much power fully tuned imo, more than a fully tuned Veyron. No way that's realistic, an OHV motor from half a century ago vs. a contemporary budgetless VW group build with more displacement."


You obviously know nothing about v8's my man.....

V8's of all designs Can make upwards to 3500-4000bhp with the right parts and some boost.....so for you to think that you cant get 1400bhp is cuckoo.....I've seen STREETABLE 4000bhp cars, that drive across country towing trailers......

You really need to learn man....those engines can make a TONNE of power with the right bits bolted on.....
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le-mans-24h-gasoline-engine-teos-powertrain-engineering-1.jpg



Sure you can, but a typical multi-thousand hp privately tuned engine wont last much longer than a few thousand metres at full-pelt without chewing itself to death...

The kind of figures we do see in-game are much more realistic for engines designed to be bulletproof at full-pelt for many hours at a time while competantly keeping themselves within the optimum operational temperature range.

Not that the game literally simulates this, but I'm confident that's the guidline they consider when choosing how powerful these units should be in-game.
 
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AlexWilmot
You know a wet sump that has baffling designed correctly is more efficient than a dry sump, dry sump needs extra pulleys taking HP away, adding weight and running lines that could have issues with heat sources being too close.

If you know how to design a wet sump properly it can be better than a dry sump, I think track day forum warriors need to stop worrying about what other people have experienced and rather focus on their own car if it’s wet or dry…

But again this is a GT thread where non of this matters, so maybe leave the ego at the door @cvjoint
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First of all, not all dry sumps are belt driven with a pulley, some are chain driven and integrated into the engine. Second, wet sumps have an oil pump too. Third, efficiency is gained in a dry sump system due to vacuum created in the crankcase. Fourth, inefficiency in the wet sump style is often due to air being mixed into the oil due to sloshing about whereas the dry sump system oil tank and general design separate air out. Fifth, constant positive pressure for the pressure pump. Sixth, oil pools in wet sump systems reducing efficiency.

Whatever weight you add with dry sump you get back in center of gravity performance improvements, especially if the wet sump design that works needs to be miles deeper into an oversized pan to ensure proper oil pickup.

Many performance oriented OEMs have both styles on the same engine architecture. Wet for entry level spec and dry for top dog. It's not for a lack of know how on designing dry sumps. It's to save money on the budget engine.

I don't know of a single instance in club racing or pro circles where wet sump was adapted to increase efficiency and gain an unfair advantage. But happy to learn if you would like to share.
 
cvjoint
First of all, not all dry sumps are belt driven with a pulley, some are chain driven and integrated into the engine. Second, wet sumps have an oil pump too. Third, efficiency is gained in a dry sump system due to vacuum created in the crankcase. Fourth, inefficiency in the wet sump style is often due to air being mixed into the oil due to sloshing about whereas the dry sump system oil tank and general design separate air out. Fifth, constant positive pressure for the pressure pump. Sixth, oil pools in wet sump systems reducing efficiency.

Whatever weight you add with dry sump you get back in center of gravity performance improvements, especially if the wet sump design that works needs to be miles deeper into an oversized pan to ensure proper oil pickup.

Many performance oriented OEMs have both styles on the same engine architecture. Wet for entry level spec and dry for top dog. It's not for a lack of know how on designing dry sumps. It's to save money on the budget engine.

I don't know of a single instance in club racing or pro circles where wet sump was adapted to increase efficiency and gain an unfair advantage. But happy to learn if you would like to share.
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First of all, congratulations you know how to google search!

1) the engines you refer to are belt driven not chain, chain driven dry dumps are a rarity

2) air mixing in the oil is due to poor wet sump and baffle design, mentioned it before, which also goes onto pooling you mention

3) in the examples you’ve previously mentioned the CoG for Gudrun dump on those cars at the track days you’ve experienced would of been nullified if the driver went for a number 2 or not that morning

4) wet or dry is not a classification if you are “top dog” or grassroots level, dry sumping a car is a big cost, a correctly designed wet sump won’t have issues

5) if you’re gaining an unfair advantage should you really be doing it? I mean this is a totally different discussion about people pushing rules and finding loop holes but a dry sump ain’t going to find you an extra second around a lap, if this whole charade is to justify the expensive you’ve had on a dry sump then ok but wet dumps are no less than a dry sump for any situation you’ve brought up

6) I’ve personally developed a wet sumps for Caterham 7s to prevent sloshing around oil, they’ve been low/flat as possible(CoG arguement invalidated there)
What I don’t understand is if wet dumps are soo bad why do jegs or morosso for example have race baffled wet dumps for sale if they’re soo inefficient…

7) this has nothing to do with this forum and or thread, you need to leave your ego at the door because someone’s pointed out that you’re out of your depth on this
 
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AlexWilmot
First of all, congratulations you know how to google search!

1) the engines you refer to are belt driven not chain, chain driven dry dumps are a rarity

2) air mixing in the oil is due to poor wet sump and baffle design, mentioned it before, which also goes onto pooling you mention

3) in the examples you’ve previously mentioned the CoG for Gudrun dump on those cars at the track days you’ve experienced would of been nullified if the driver went for a number 2 or not that morning

4) wet or dry is not a classification if you are “top dog” or grassroots level, fry dumping a car is a big cost, a correctly designed wet sump won’t have issues

5) if you’re gaining an unfair advantage should you really be doing it? I mean this is a totally different discussion about people pushing rules and finding loop holes but a dry sump ain’t going to find you an extra second around a lap, if this whole charade is to justify the expensive you’ve had on a dry sump then ok but wet dumps are no less than a dry sump for any situation you’ve brought up

6) I’ve personally developed a wet sumps for Caterham 7s to prevent sloshing around oil, they’ve been low/flat as possible(CoG arguement invalidated there)
What I don’t understand is if wet dumps are soo bad why do jegs or morosso for example have race baffled wet dumps for sale if they’re soo inefficient…

7) this has nothing to do with this forum and or thread, you need to leave your ego at the door because someone’s pointed out that you’re out of your depth on this
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I love the intricacies of lubrication systems design! So yeah, I'm not shy to discuss it. But maybe we're getting a bit off topic so I'll just curtail my arguments to a few hopefully salient points.

Chain driven pumps are the more common types, thanks to OEMs building them in their street legal cars. They have the millions to develop them and they are so good they can be used in their motorsport offerings doubling G loads without changes. While you may be able to develop a baffled pan with simple weldings skills for a car with aerodynamic lift and bicycle wheels, it will never compare to say the 911 GT3 pump using over half a dozen scavenge pumps, electronic valve control that has GTE-Pro winning credentials. Its benefits to COG are more than tangible, in most motorsport classes, even club racing, power to weight is fixed and COG becomes an important differentiator and is as far as I know never regulated away.

Moroso and co will always sell baffled pans because motorsport is expensive, and not everyone can afford an integrated cast or billet dry sump. It costs as much as your average grassroots race car. Therefore you can look at the oiling system for the most part and tell how serious the build is. FYI I own two dry sumped cars and one baffled wet sump car with Accusump, all three are my babies, and I would love for all three to be dry sumped someday.

To tag back into GT7 world, I don't mind so much that the game has no provision for dry sump modifications, I think it would be cool to get lower COG, get 3 more HP, and have that technical satisfaction, but I don't miss blowing engines. Cars are already too expensive in GT7! What I would love to have is fairness, I don't believe a 1,200 Windsor is race worthy, and certainly shouldn't have a tuning potential above a Veyron. I think the GT7 team just uses a knob approach, cars start at X horsepower, and can be tuned x% over. I just want more. Maybe a panel of experts since there is so much disagreement.
 
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Engine swaps Id like to see:

ALFA ROMEO
Giulia GTAm 20 - Lambo Murcielago V12, Ferrari F12,

AMG
A 45 - AMG C 63 engine

ASTON MARTIN
DB5 - Toyota Supra MKIV or MKIII / BMW E46 engines

BAC
Mono - Amuse S2000 engine

CHEVROLET
Corvette C1 - C8 V8
C8 - Ferrari F12 / AMG GT

DODGE
Viper (all models) - enable the turbos in game up to 3000+ hp
Charger Hellcat - Viper V10
Viper GTS 02 - SRT Viper GTS '13 / Huracan V10
Viper SRT10 06 - SRT Viper GTS '13 / Murcielago V12
Viper GTS '13 - Chiron W16 :) / Carrera GT V10

FERRARI
250 GTO - Ferrari 330 P4 67 / Ferrari F40 engines
250 GT Berlinetta - Ferrari GTO 84 / Testarossa engine
GTO 84 - F40 / 458 Italia engines
Testarossa - Enzo engine

FORD
Raptor - Ford GT 06 engine
GT 17 - Ford GT LM V8 / Ford GT 06 / Mustang GT 350 R engines
Sierra Cossie - Mustang GT 350 R engine

FUGU
Z - Viper V10 / Audi V10 / Nismo V8 / Vette / Nissan R34 / C8 engines

HONDA
Civic Touring Car - GT 500 NSX engine

JAGUAR
E type - Jaguar XJ13 66 engine :)

KTM
Xbow - Cayman GT4 / Supra GT 500 engines

MAZDA
RX 7 - C8 engine

NISSAN
370Z - R92 CP engine / Ferrari 458 / ZR1 / AMG GTR

MERCEDES-BENZ
300 SL - SLR McLaren engine

PORSCHE
356 A - Cayman GT4 engine
997 - Porsche GT1 / Porsche Carrera GT / Porsche GT3 RS 16 engines
993 RS CS - GT1 / 911 RSR 17 engines
Carrera RS 92 - Carrera GT engine
991 GT3 RS - Carrera GT V10 engine /
918 Spyder - 919 Hybrid 16 engine and setup

RADICAL
GT 500 Supra / 787B engines

RENAULT
Sport Clio V6 00 - Amuse 380 Z / Nismo GTR engines
Sport Megane Trophy - Renault RS 01 GT3 16 engine

SHELBY
Cobra 66 - Maverick engine
Cobra Daytona - Viper V10 engine :)

SUBARU
Impreza 22B - Subaru BRZ Drift car engine

TOYOTA
2000 GT - MKIV Supra engine
GR Supra - MKIV Supra :) / Carrera GT V10 engines

VOLKSWAGEN
Scirocco R - Audi R8 V8 / Porsche GT3 RS 16 engines


Would love to see drivetrain swaps too....
 
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05XR8
K24 in an EP3 is what really needs to happen! ;)

Still keeping a lookout for more power in the Sierra.
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A coyote V8 swap for the Sierra would be pretty cool. Or for the sake of noise, a De Tomaso Pantera engine :P
Personally I'd like to see some swaps for more of the Subarus. A V8 Impreza would be a giggle. Or some V12 swaps! An XJR9-swapped XJ220 would be quite the machine...
 
From the patch notes:

Car Maintenance & Service
　　Engine Swaps have been added for the following cars (Unlocked at Collector Level 50):
　　・ Porsche 356 A/1500 GS Carrera '56
　　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (901) '73
　　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964) '92
　　・ Porsche 911 GT3 (997) '09
　　・ Porsche Cayman GT4 '16

Will have to wait to see what engine goes in them
 
NJ72
From the patch notes:

Car Maintenance & Service
　　Engine Swaps have been added for the following cars (Unlocked at Collector Level 50):
　　・ Porsche 356 A/1500 GS Carrera '56
　　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (901) '73
　　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964) '92
　　・ Porsche 911 GT3 (997) '09
　　・ Porsche Cayman GT4 '16

Will have to wait to see what engine goes in them
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I’m guessing:
　・ Porsche 356 A/1500 GS Carrera '56 M64/03-911
　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (901) '73 CTR38-CTR3
　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964) '92 CTR38-CTR3
　・ Porsche 911 GT3 (997) '09 M97/80-911
　・ Porsche Cayman GT4 M97/80-911
 
Islaygaz
I’m guessing:
　・ Porsche 356 A/1500 GS Carrera '56 M64/03-911
　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (901) '73 CTR38-CTR3
　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964) '92 CTR38-CTR3
　・ Porsche 911 GT3 (997) '09 M97/80-911
　・ Porsche Cayman GT4 M97/80-911
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I would like to see the Cayman get the V10 from the Carrera GT
 
NJ72
From the patch notes:

Car Maintenance & Service
　　Engine Swaps have been added for the following cars (Unlocked at Collector Level 50):
　　・ Porsche 356 A/1500 GS Carrera '56
　　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (901) '73
　　・ Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964) '92
　　・ Porsche 911 GT3 (997) '09
　　・ Porsche Cayman GT4 '16

Will have to wait to see what engine goes in them
Click to expand...
I just got it:

18adac08cec83-screenshotUrl.jpg
 
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