Gran Turismo 7: How Trial Mountain Has Changed

[sesven]

In trying to simulate a bit Preakness with Original Circuit track design, I say yes. Yes, the chicane too.

Off the top of my head, Spa, Suzuka and Gilles Villeneuve have chicanes that slow the cars right down, before the run to the flag. The redesign of Trial Mountain suits that same type of run.

We already have Spa and Suzuka. This assumes “make fictional tracks function like real tracks = better” Why is that necessary for a fictional track with bare rock faces and cliffs? Must every track have a slow chicane before the finish because Spa does? Sounds very predictable and cookie cutter to me.
To me Trial Mountain was never meant to be a realistic track to emulate real life racing. It’s a video game, why not have some realistic tracks and some that are old school and a bit whimsical? If every track abides by these standards set by spa, how will Fiat 500s and Diahatsu Midgets feel? Lol

I think GT Sport opened up a huge can of worms. Now we have Gran Turismo fans who want everything to be balanced for e-sports and simulate real world racing. Along side long time fans of the franchise who have strong attachments to the way things were. Fans of the same IP who expect and want wildly different things. Pleasing everyone with GT7 might prove to be a huge task. Makes for interesting forum posts at least.

 

[05XR8]

We already have Spa and Suzuka. This assumes “make fictional tracks function like real tracks = better” Why is that necessary for a fictional track with bare rock faces and cliffs? Must every track have a slow chicane before the finish because Spa does? Sounds very predictable and cookie cutter to me.
To me Trial Mountain was never meant to be a realistic track to emulate real life racing. It’s a video game, why not have some realistic tracks and some that are old school and a bit whimsical? If every track abides by these standards set by spa, how will Fiat 500s and Diahatsu Midgets feel? Lol

I think GT Sport opened up a huge can of worms. Now we have Gran Turismo fans who want everything to be balanced for e-sports and simulate real world racing. Along side long time fans of the franchise who have strong attachments to the way things were. Fans of the same IP who expect and want wildly different things. Pleasing everyone with GT7 might prove to be a huge task. Makes for interesting forum posts at least.

What tracks from the past, have jumps in them? The only track in GT Sport I can think of, is Nurburgring.

As for making an original track like a real world track, DTS has the "swimming pool complex" aka "COD", like Monaco.

Kyoto has the uphill ess similar to Spa. Matter of fact, it's two of them.

How about Lago Maggiore? The freakin' pointy banked hairpin. There's plenty of character in the new original tracks.

I don't know why Trial Mountain has an "eat wall" chicane at the end of the lap. I can only guess as to why, until we hear/read from the PD track creators.

Trial Mountain isn't one of my top picks in the GT franchise. I can still understand those that don't approve of the changes.

 

[karelpipa]

Tilkedroming a Trial Mountain shall be considered as Sin

 

[Samus]

In trying to simulate a bit Preakness with Original Circuit track design, I say yes. Yes, the chicane too.

Off the top of my head, Spa, Suzuka and Gilles Villeneuve have chicanes that slow the cars right down, before the run to the flag. The redesign of Trial Mountain suits that same type of run.

All of those tracks have a long straight beforehand where the fastest series are topping out at 200mph before they get to them. The new Trial Mountain chicane is just a few hundred metres after a mid to slow speed corner. There is no "run".

 

[Auditore]

I'm very curious at how PD can redesign seattle circuit(without the jumps of course)

 

[05XR8]

All of those tracks have a long straight beforehand where the fastest series are topping out at 200mph before they get to them. The new Trial Mountain chicane is just a few hundred metres after a mid to slow speed corner. There is no "run".

"before the run to the flag." After the chicane, there is a run to the flag. The tracks I mentioned, there's a run to the flag right after this final corners. Literally. So, it's like those real tracks. A chicane before the run to the start finish line. If I have to substitute 'run' for "dash", so be it.

SPRINT! Sprint is the word. I guess it's a type of run or is it not?

 

[Samus]

"before the run to the flag." After the chicane, there is a run to the flag. The tracks I mentioned, there's a run to the flag right after this final corners. Literally. So, it's like those real tracks. A chicane before the run to the start finish line. If I have to substitute 'run' for "dash", so be it.

SPRINT! Sprint is the word. I guess it's a type of run or is it not?

Oh I see what you mean, I misread.

I think with the proximity of the previous corner though I'd have preferred if they just tightened that up and made it the last corner, and if they're going to remove the old chicane, remove it entirely. Then you'd have a really long straight and run to the flag.

We'll have to see how it plays though obviously, nobody has driven it yet. It may prove a good design.

 

[Quakebass]

I'm very curious at how PD can redesign seattle circuit(without the jumps of course)

If they follow authenticity they can’t without it being a completely different layout or in a different part of the city.

 

[sesven]

What tracks from the past, have jumps in them? The only track in GT Sport I can think of, is Nurburgring.

As for making an original track like a real world track, DTS has the "swimming pool complex" aka "COD", like Monaco.

Kyoto has the uphill ess similar to Spa. Matter of fact, it's two of them.

How about Lago Maggiore? The freakin' pointy banked hairpin. There's plenty of character in the new original tracks.

I don't know why Trial Mountain has an "eat wall" chicane at the end of the lap. I can only guess as to why, until we hear/read from the PD track creators.

Trial Mountain isn't one of my top picks in the GT franchise. I can still understand those that don't approve of the changes.

Like I said at the bottom of my response - now we have GT players who expect and want wildly different things.

My own solution is try to preserve the history of the franchise while also offering more realistic/contemporary tracks for the Sport players. I like Kyoto, Maggiore, Dragon's Tail. But they aren't as iconic as the originals for me.

The difference here is I'm not asking to take the GT Sport tracks and change them to suit my taste.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Tilkedroming a Trial Mountain shall be considered as Sin

The track has hardly been Tilked mate.

 

[zaxs]

Tilkedroming a Trial Mountain shall be considered as Sin

Could say so If they don't offer original layout too...
Or we can tell this for any of "Holy" classic track as Deep Forest, Autumn Ring, High Speed Ring or Grand Valley, including Trial Mountain ofc.

As far original layout is there, any tweaks that should make positive difference are welcome.

 

[Barra333]

The track has hardly been Tilked mate.

Exactly. They replaced a novelty chicane that sucked for racing (at any level) with a functional one, extended a couple of straights and reprofiled one other corner.
I actually don't mind @Samus' idea about just removing the last chicane, but I think the resulting speed at turn 1 would be a disaster.

 

[Samus]

Honestly my main issue with it is still that they just extended the track in the middle by a few hundred metres along the earth but kept the exact same land profile at either end. They have quite literally moved mountains.

Obviously I know it's a fictional track in a game and there is no actual land to consider, but it strikes me as a bit lazy. Would've been nicer to see some new scenery and profiling due to the extension, make the track truly feel like a new edition rather than a weird tweaked version of the original.

 

[Nielsen]

Honestly my main issue with it is still that they just extended the track in the middle by a few hundred metres along the earth but kept the exact same land profile at either end. They have quite literally moved mountains.

Obviously I know it's a fictional track in a game and there is no actual land to consider, but it strikes me as a bit lazy. Would've been nicer to see some new scenery and profiling due to the extension, make the track truly feel like a new edition rather than a weird tweaked version of the original.

Then we would lose other trademark features of the track as well, like the terrain barriers on the last third of the circuit and the scenic view to the lake.

 

[Samus]

Then we would lose other trademark features of the track as well, like the terrain barriers on the last third of the circuit and the scenic view to the lake.

Sure, but that's what happens when you majorly change/extend a racing circuit in real life. It's not the same track any more, but by keeping the same scenery it's going to feel like someone made a copy version of the track but got it a bit wrong, like those 80s and 90s racing games which included dodgy versions of real world tracks that weren't quite right.

Whereas if they went with new terrain it'd feel more natural, and also cement that "Ok yeah, this is a new version of the track" feeling, instead of a "Wait, this isn't right" feeling.

Just my 2 cents of course.

 

[sesven]

Despite being in the "don't mess with an original" crowd. I can support the idea of revamping the scenery to suit the new changes. Honestly if they had to add the slow chicane and extend the straights for e-racing balance they might as well change it even more. I think one of the reasons it bothers me is its laying in this "uncanny valley" so to speak where it's trying to pass off as the OG Trial Mountain to please the nostalgia crowd while simultaneously trying to appeal to the e-sports crowd. And so it seems to not do either particularly well.

An idea that will never happen, have the old Trial Mountain be an "inner loop" with a modernized "outer loop"

 

[GTR365]

What tracks from the past, have jumps in them? The only track in GT Sport I can think of, is Nurburgring.

I remember Cape Ring having a jump adjacent to the corner leading to the carousel.

 

[05XR8]

I remember Cape Ring having a jump adjacent to the corner leading to the carousel.

Yes! Was it the reverse layout? I think it had a jump and had to slam the brakes to avoid the barrier.

 

[RACECAR]

You mean how they killed HSR?

Not seeing how to be honest. The versions of HSR that appear on GT4 and GT5 onwards are pretty much the exact same layout as it was in the first two games, only differences are the graphics and removal of the bumps as well as the slight reprofiling of the s corner before the bridge. At best, they revised it and smoothed it out.

 

[FPV MIC]

Yes! Was it the reverse layout? I think it had a jump and had to slam the brakes to avoid the barrier.

There's also Eiger Nordwand (just after the start line) and Seattle that I can remember off hand.

 

[05XR8]

Yes, those as well(Big Willow has that ski jump. So, PD do have a sense of humour). With GT Sport, PD seemed to have moved away from those types of characteristics in their newly designed circuits.

 

[Auditore]

Honestly my main issue with it is still that they just extended the track in the middle by a few hundred metres along the earth but kept the exact same land profile at either end. They have quite literally moved mountains.

That's basically what they did,original trial mountain was supposed to be in scotland(loch ness monster).
New Trial Mountain is in America(in california i think)

 

[Samus]

trial mountain was supposed to be in scotland(loch ness monster).

I don't think so, that was just a bit of fun. It also had a monkey and you won't see those in the wild in Scotland.

 

[Dave A]

I don't think so, that was just a bit of fun. It also had a monkey and you won't see those in the wild in Scotland.

In GT2 the track was the location used for the UK Nationals in the GT League events, so there was definitely a suggestion is was in the UK somewhere. I do recall it being mentioned as a Scottish location once but I can't remember if that was just speculation becuase of Nessie or from PD.

It does seem to have been based in or implied to have been based in the UK at one time though.

 

[Nielsen]

Trial Mountain never struck me as British. Geographically it always had that North American mountain resort vibe to it.

 

[Samus]

In GT2 the track was the location used for the UK Nationals in the GT League events, so there was definitely a suggestion is was in the UK somewhere. I do recall it being mentioned as a Scottish location once but I can't remember if that was just speculation becuase of Nessie or from PD.

It does seem to have been based in or implied to have been based in the UK at one time though.

That could have just been because they didn't have any genuine UK tracks back then though. I think the same was true for the French and German events wasn't it?

 

[Dave A]

That could have just been because they didn't have any genuine UK tracks back then though. I think the same was true for the French and German events wasn't it?

The French Nationals track was Tahiti which is a French location, the German track was Deep Forrest which could well be in Germany, who knows. Like I said I do recall the track being linked to Scotland but I can't remember where or in what context so it could just be no more than it was implied as being in the UK/Scotland and that's it.

 

[Famine]

Like I said I do recall the track being linked to Scotland but I can't remember where or in what context

Nessie in the lake. That was pretty much it.

Fun fact: the original SSR5 was in Florence... kinda.

 

[sesven]

To me it was pretty clear that the location of most original tracks in GT were meant to be ambiguous. Clear up to RouteX.

Which is why I’m skeptical on the real Earth map in GT world. They will either create a LOT of extra work for themselves by reworking the layouts and scenery to fit into real world locations. Or just not care about the believability (Route X having a non coastal desert pin point on the map but yet have a ship yard port.) OR cut most all original tracks out.

 

[Dave A]

There you go @Samus the only Scotland link was Nessie in the lake.

Nessie in the lake. That was pretty much it.

Fun fact: the original SSR5 was in Florence... kinda.

The Florence link for SSR5 is new to me entirely though.