(Gran Turismo 7) If you were to purchase the McLaren F1 '94 currently in Hagerty's with just purchased credits, the cost is quite an eye opener.

No.

They put them in the game. If they didn't intend people to use the MTX, they wouldn't have put them in the game. They spent time and effort putting them in. Whatever you want to say about the MTX, you can't claim that Polyphony doesn't intend people to use them. That's just demonstrably not true.
When you go to purchase the car, is there a button to buy it with $200? I'm actually curious because I've barely actually noticed any of the "forceful" microtransaction buttons.
If that button exists, then yes it's extremely steep, but it's still a choice which isn't forced.
If it doesn't exist then I don't think they intended you to add 10x £2m credit packages to your basket at once.
 
I think the most jarring thing I've seen is the disparity with GT6, the F1 is 1 million in GT6, and you could earn 3 million an hour, or 3 F1's worth an hour.

In GT7 the F1 is 18 million and it takes you THIRTY hours.

Why such a big disparity?, someone tried to tell me it was to make it more realistic...........
In GT8, when you crash the car the steering wheel will have airbags inside that go off and Kaz comes around with a baseball bat and breaks your legs to recreate the realism of being in a crash.

Because realism is fun!
 
When you go to purchase the car, is there a button to buy it with $200? I'm actually curious because I've barely actually noticed any of the "forceful" microtransaction buttons.
If that button exists, then yes it's extremely steep, but it's still a choice which isn't forced.
If it doesn't exist then I don't think they intended you to add 10x £2m credit packages to your basket at once.
Where did you drag "forced" from? Them goalposts are growing legs.

You can think what you like about their intentions, but they have a microtransaction system that allows you to buy as many microtransactions as you like. That is intended functionality, they had to explicitly add it into the game. If they had simply done nothing, there wouldn't be microtransactions.

If they didn't want you to buy 10 credit packages, then you wouldn't be able to. There's a "free" credit cap of 20 million. If there was a cap on paid credits of 2 million you wouldn't be able to spend more than that on a single car. That would be an easy way to implement this intention that you claim they have.

But they didn't.
They let people buy as many credits as they want.
Because that's what they intended when they designed it.
It's working as intended.
That's the objective reality.
It's right there in the game.

I'm sorry that your hero turned out to be a greedy money grubber. It's a disappointment to a lot of us who had respect for Polyphony and Mr. Yamauchi. But that's how the world goes sometimes. People aren't who you thought they were.
 
I guess we should think ourselves lucky we don't have to pay for fuel with realistic prices.
That would add a lot of realism, Kaz should be thinking about that, and there could be a banner pausing your race "You're running low on fuel, would you like to buy some with a small MTX of would you rather pit to refuel?" (and the pit length would be then doubled to give more incentive to go MTX)
 
Or simply don’t want to spend £200 to buy a virtual car in a game they already paid £70 for.
That is nuts to spend £200 on a virtual car that you don't even fully own virtually. At least not with the online required setup. They should update a proper offline mode.
 
Where did you drag "forced" from? Them goalposts are growing legs.

You can think what you like about their intentions, but they have a microtransaction system that allows you to buy as many microtransactions as you like. That is intended functionality, they had to explicitly add it into the game. If they had simply done nothing, there wouldn't be microtransactions.

If they didn't want you to buy 10 credit packages, then you wouldn't be able to. There's a "free" credit cap of 20 million. If there was a cap on paid credits of 2 million you wouldn't be able to spend more than that on a single car. That would be an easy way to implement this intention that you claim they have.

But they didn't.
They let people buy as many credits as they want.
Because that's what they intended when they designed it.
It's working as intended.
That's the objective reality.
It's right there in the game.

I'm sorry that your hero turned out to be a greedy money grubber. It's a disappointment to a lot of us who had respect for Polyphony and Mr. Yamauchi. But that's how the world goes sometimes. People aren't who you thought they were.
People are saying the game is designed around having to buy credits with real money when it's clearly not.
I haven't felt any need to buy anything, nor have I found the option to buy credits shoved in my face. I've barely noticed it. It's there as an option and that's fine.

Of course they don't need to put a cap on how many credits people can buy. They're not responsible for peoples spending habits.
 
It's interesting to think about the economics of GT7 as a video game made for the entertainment. If you think that Elden Ring takes about 80 hours to complete, with all sidequests etc. (people seem to agree that this is a fun game, tough and grindy at times, but a fun reward for the purchase price), surely it's not unreasonable to think that it should be possible to unlock all the cars in GT7 within 80 hours of gameplay.
If you imagine that you are able to earn 50,000 credits every 5 minutes in GT7 (600,000 credits per hour), with 80 hours of gameplay you would have 48m credits. Buying the McLaren F1 and the Porsche 917K alone costs 36m.
I'm sure someone would have the numbers for how long, on this basis, it would take to unlock all 424 cars in the game but you can be certain that it is a hell of a lot longer than 80 hours. At some point, it just stops being fun. And when it stops being fun, the game's designers have failed.
 
People are saying the game is designed around having to buy credits with real money when it's clearly not.
I haven't felt any need to buy anything, nor have I found the option to buy credits shoved in my face. I've barely noticed it. It's there as an option and that's fine.
"It doesn't affect me therefore it's not a problem" famously being a logical argument for the ages. Must be hard to score when the goalposts on the moon.

Of course they don't need to put a cap on how many credits people can buy. They're not responsible for peoples spending habits.
It's truly staggering that people still think, in 2022, that microtransactions aren't an extensively researched behavioral concept with several works published on the matter from both the side of publishers implementing into their games and the side of mental health experts. And it's practically obscene that (in the week where they lowered race payouts specifically targeted at the ones that net you the most money and they introduced two cars into their FOMO car dealership with prices that would be virtually impossible for people to get for anyone who hasn't basically taken three weeks off from work to do maximum payout races over and over again) people are still assuming the position to act like PD is a completely passive entity in the process of whether people are willing to buy the microtransactions they put in the game. Or is it just because it's poor confused PD who would never set a foot wrong if they weren't doing so on accident?






Of course PD felt that they could get away with announcing microtransactions and their dramatically inflated prices after the review embargo had lifted. They've got an infinite number of anonymous people online who would jump at the chance to blame people for being taken advantage of in order to defend the company's honor.
 
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Who has demanded that we have them in 2 weeks?

How many times will we hear about that mythical person who wants everything in 2 weeks before we actually see them?

The issue is that it will take many years. There's a huge middle ground between 2 weeks and, however many years (since it varies by how much someone plays, and what they do, it's hard to give an actual year number).

Unless it's an MMORPG like RuneScape, it's rarely a long grind to get them. Especially not 20+ hours.
You surely played different RPGs than me, 20 hours is nothing in some games. You know how rare some things were in like Diablo, there was a Rune for example just a handful of people actually achieved to get. So the thing is this was by luck (Droprate), but the result is the same: You bought a game with content in it that you probably never got you the chance to use, and if you were lucky you had to grind really hard.

And about the other point: lot of people complain here that they have to play this or this long to buy that car and that they didn’t had the credits to buy that special car that was in the legendary dealer ship. Or they give some quick numbers how long they must grind to get this or that car, that’s a fair point considering the drop of rewards after the patch, but is still much too early to predict. We can talk about it in some weeks, if there still isn’t a change to recognize in content and ways to get credits then ok, but I doubt that.
 
One thing I assume Polyphony have not considered fully is what about the people who love building up the cars in their own way and now would either need to grind like mad or purchase credits just to do what they enjoy. 🤔. They need to reconsider the balance. If they intend for us to spend years to get everything we want to get and tune it how we want to tune it then the game needs to offer a solid offline, so that in the far future when the servers close, we still can play the game with all the vehicles we bought/tuned/loved, with all our hard earned/worked credits.
 
I'm sure someone would have the numbers for how long, on this basis, it would take to unlock all 424 cars in the game but you can be certain that it is a hell of a lot longer than 80 hours.
80 hours wouldn't be enough to get you the 4 most expensive cars in the game.

And about the other point: lot of people complain here that they have to play this or this long to buy that car and that they didn’t had the credits to buy that special car that was in the legendary dealer ship. Or they give some quick numbers how long they must grind to get this or that car, that’s a fair point considering the drop of rewards after the patch, but is still much too early to predict. We can talk about it in some weeks, if there still isn’t a change to recognize in content and ways to get credits then ok, but I doubt that.
It's useless to speculate on what the game might be, but what we have now is a game that was already extremely grindy compared to past games in the series, which was then updated 2 weeks after release to pretty much double the grind. What we have is a statement saying it will be addressed. What we also have is a game that has already shown that it was built on MTX.
 
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People are saying the game is designed around having to buy credits with real money when it's clearly not.
Developers that aren't pushing microtransactions aren't worried about their players earning enough credits to buy a McLaren F1 in under 10 hours. How much of the design focus was on microtransactions is up for debate, but there's strong evidence that it's a pretty big part of their economy.

The low earning rate offline.
The incredibly low earning rate online.
The limited amount of races to use to earn in, meaning earning money is boring.
The high cost of tuning parts.
The high cost of the most desirable cars.
The limited time to purchase the most desirable cars.
The unknown availability of the most desirable cars.
The inability to sell cars. (Edit: Thanks @Tornado )
The credit cap to encourage spending instead of saving.
The online only saves to ensure people can't go offline and mod their own games (and thereby avoid MTXs).
The really high MTX prices designed to extract the maximum profit from whales.
The variable credits-per-dollar to encourage higher spending. (Edit: Thanks @Scaff )
The limited credit pack values encouraging buying more credits than you need. (Edit: Thanks @Scaff )
The numerous reminders and links to buy MTX. (Edit: Thanks @Lomic )
The reducing rewards in an update in response to players grinding (relatively) high paying races. (Edit: Thanks @NICKname )

A few of these things could be incidental. The combination of all of them paints a picture in which the developer thought carefully about how to best incorporate microtransactions into the game and to use the other game systems to encourage spending.

It's really unlikely that a AAA developer in 2022 just happened to build a game system that looks exactly like it's designed to push microtransactions. It would require not only massive coincidence, but total incompetence and ignorance from dozens of designers and testers.

The alternative is that it's exactly what it looks like and they made it that way on purpose. Like every other game.
I haven't felt any need to buy anything, nor have I found the option to buy credits shoved in my face. I've barely noticed it. It's there as an option and that's fine.
Good for you. Your personal experience doesn't mean anything compared to the objective facts about how we can see the game systems have been put together.

Not all people are the same, and you're clearly not the psychological target that they're going after. You should read up on "whales" with regards to microtransactions. I think you'll be surprised at just how much people are willing to spend on this stuff, and how small a proportion of players can result in big profits for a developer.
Of course they don't need to put a cap on how many credits people can buy. They're not responsible for peoples spending habits.
Right. They intend to let people do what they want with regards to purchasing microtransactions. If they want to buy 10, they intend to let them.

You know, I think you're starting to get it.
 
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The low earning rate offline.
The incredibly low earning rate online.
The limited amount of races to use to earn in, meaning earning money is boring.
The high cost of tuning parts.
The high cost of the most desirable cars.
The limited time to purchase the most desirable cars.
The unknown availability of the most desirable cars.
The credit cap to encourage spending instead of saving.
The online only saves to ensure people can't go offline and mod their own games (and thereby avoid MTXs).
The really high MTX prices designed to extract the maximum profit from whales.
And once you buy the cars, the value of the car being vaporized.
 
"It doesn't affect me therefore it's not a problem" famously being a logical argument for the ages. Must be hard to score when the goalposts on the moon.


It's truly staggering that people still think, in 2022, that microtransactions aren't an extensively researched behavioral concept with several works published on the matter from both the side of publishers implementing into their games and the side of mental health experts. And it's practically obscene that (in the week where they lowered race payouts specifically targeted at the ones that net you the most money and they introduced two cars into their FOMO car dealership with prices that would be virtually impossible for people to get for anyone who hasn't basically taken three weeks off from work to do maximum payout races over and over again) people are still assuming the position to act like PD is a completely passive entity in the process of whether people are willing to buy the microtransactions they put in the game. Or is it just because it's poor confused PD who would never set a foot wrong if they weren't doing so on accident?






Of course PD felt that they could get away with announcing microtransactions and their dramatically inflated prices after the review embargo had lifted. They've got an infinite number of anonymous people online who would jump at the chance to blame people for being taken advantage of in order to defend the company's honor.
By using myself as an example, I was trying to explain how the microtransactions aren't at the forefront like they are in mobile games and f2p games.

As much as I disagree with microtransactions, I also understand that Sony and PD are a business, and a huge amount of games nowadays also implement them in some way.

In my opinion, they're not forced on you, or even pushed on you at all and you don't need to spend any money to enjoy the game at a normal pace.
 
Noz
There will be people who bought the game for 60 - 80$/€ who will never have the chance to own cars like this in the game, beacause they either dont have the time to grind nor have the money to buy credits in the store, really sad!
As in any other Gran Turismo. You would only buy many of cars if you grind furiously. Yes, there is still lot of content missing that should earn more money than the current races available. At least considering there aren't races requiring any of the International Licences or the Superlicence.

Sure grinding is slower than most of GT games, at the moment and is utterly stupid the time restricted invitations to buy some cars when the potential tools to grind just aren't there in the game.

But there makes sense that one of the most exclusive cars in the world would be extremely hard and expensive to buy.
 
By using myself as an example, I was trying to explain how the microtransactions aren't at the forefront like they are in mobile games and f2p games.

As much as I disagree with microtransactions, I also understand that Sony and PD are a business, and a huge amount of games nowadays also implement them in some way.

In my opinion, they're not forced on you, or even pushed on you at all and you don't need to spend any money to enjoy the game at a normal pace.
"they're not forced on you", true, but the Top Up function is always there. On the main menu you can select the Credits and top up, but cannot scroll across and click your car, nor driver mileage. After every race the option is there. It is subliminal. I will never "top up" because I am a cheapskate, but it is definitely at the forefront.

And the fact it is in the game at all, ruins the ethos and simple nature of earning credits. Much like Mobile gaming progression mechanics. I know I am earning credits and progressing, but their true motives are aimed at MTX. It is plain to see, and hard to ignore.

I can't exactly innocently enjoy the game because I know they have intentionally made progression more difficult - cost of Used cars, timed invitations, FOMO inducing Used and Legend availability, reducing payouts, terrible Roulette spin rewards.

When it happens elsewhere in the industry again and again, you literally cannot ignore it - unless this is somehow peoples first exposure of it?
 
By using myself as an example, I was trying to explain how the microtransactions aren't at the forefront like they are in mobile games and f2p games.
The in-game economy design points to being designed around a MTX approach. That a cap is put on how many 'free credits' you can have, but not on paid ones, and we then have two Cr.18+ million cars in the Legendary dealership at once makes the intention quite clear, as the sheer grind required to obtain both via gameplay is staggering (40+ hours) given the short window before they cycle out.
As much as I disagree with microtransactions, I also understand that Sony and PD are a business, and a huge amount of games nowadays also implement them in some way.
Part of the rational behind PS5 titles being $70/£70 was to avoid them becoming 'cash grab microtransaction filled hellscapes', and that comes directly from the creative Director at a Sony first party studio!

Sony charge 70 to avoid MXTs.jpg


It also ignores the fact that GT Sport retailed for half the price, has 75% of the same content as GT7, more events and championship, has a better balanced economy, and far less expensive MTXs.
In my opinion, they're not forced on you, or even pushed on you at all and you don't need to spend any money to enjoy the game at a normal pace.
They are present on the PS5 dashboard when you highlight GT7, a link to your Credit balance is on the home screen and when you select it you are offered the option to buy them, whenever you earn money via a roulette spin (having just missed a car) you are offered them, whenever you buy a car you are offered them. In terms of design, for a full price first party studio, they are pushed on you consistently and repeatedly. It's almost impossible to use the game as intended and not be offered them repeatedly.
 
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So you completely ignored the list from Imari then?
No? It's just not very relevant if you're not on the bandwagon. The things that are supposed to be hard to obtain, are believe it or not, hard to obtain.

What is a "normal" pace, in this case? A pace roughly equivalent to past GT games, like say, GT4?
I play the game most days of the week and haven't finished it yet. If people finish it right away, then fine but either play other aspects of the game or wait. It's not even been out a month yet.
 
If anyone is looking to drive a 917K straight away, I bust out PC2 last night and raced it against it the cars it used to go up against.

Anyone got any alternatives? GT7 should be left to the Scientologists at this point
 
Maybe it isn’t intended to own the most valuable cars in the first 2 weeks or all cars like some demand here
This is the second time today I've seen this argument, and I've still not got an answer to my question around it, so let's see if you know.

If it's not intended that we one these cars in the first two weeks I have two questions.

Why have they cycled into the Legendry Car Dealership?
Why is it perfectly possible to buy them with real money?

You see PD most certainly do intend for people to own them, they've even given people a route to do so, it will just cost you around $400!
 
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