- 685
- United Kingdom
1 - There are 2 ends of the spectrum. Forza too much, GT too little. People need to understand this
2 - Will you be happy if they reduced the payouts to 100CR per race, regardless of time, etc.
Ignorant.
(Gran Turismo 7) If you were to purchase the McLaren F1 '94 currently in Hagerty's with just purchased credits, the cost is quite an eye opener.
- Thread starter PeachyRealian
- 332 comments
- 39,141 views
2 - Will you be happy if they reduced the payouts to 100CR per race, regardless of time, etc.
Ignorant.
- 1,936
- United States
- RaceManiacGT1
GT7 is a real life simulator, where you are expected to work long hours and not be able to afford things you want unless you work even more. Or the the "haves" can just go out and buy what they want when they want it, with the money they have.
- 3,784
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
To be clear, yes, I think more credits would be nice, and grinding is crap, but purchasing is unnecessary.
We'll use Fisherman's ranch, because it's the fastest way to get credits. In about 3 minutes. You get 30kCr or, with clean race bonus, 45kCr. In about 15 minutes a day, you can earn 100k. 10 days, 1 million. Or, you can do the hour grind and I believe GTPlanet said it's about 850kCr per hour.
In three weeks, you can earn enough to buy pretty much any car.
Let's face it, if everyone can just roll up in a 917, then there's no prestige in owning that car.
Does everyone NEED this car? In GTS I have the 330 sp because I won it in a spin, but I'd never spend the money on it. If you really want a specific car, it's going to need to become a focus for you. I had the F1, never used it.
The game has been out for just over two weeks and everyone wants to have the most expensive and desirable cars for no effort.
But hey, if people REALLY want to stick to PD, don't buy credits. Don't buy those cars.
I'm at 104 cars. I have plenty to play the game. Now I am in credit saving mode to get the cars that I want
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,441
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Don't forget that the cost of the Credit packs is scaled to encourage you to buy more, the Cr.2m one is less than half the price (per credit) of the Cr.100k one. Yet these have no cost of production, no economy of scale in production exists, it's a mechanism that only exists to reward you if you spend more on the microtransactions, and has denominational splits designed to get you to up-spend.
Gran Turismo 7's Microtransaction Pricing Revealed
"To put these values into context, buying enough credits to pay for a single, 20,000,000-credit car in GT7 would cost $214. Although we haven’t seen full vehicle pricing yet there stands to be at least five such cars in the game, along with six other seven-figure cars." Seem a bit steep and...
www.gtplanet.net
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- 2,195
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
- 794
- Austria
The claim you were responding to came from me, don’t it? And what kind of „answer“ is this? You seem to be very sure about something you can’t be very sure about at this moment, nobody can, so tone it down a little and like I said before: let’s speak again in some weeks, then you can say things like this with an actual foundation to it and not induce all of this from this one thing.
All your argumentation is based on the current state of the game which is missing a lot of Events and stuff, but there’s more promised and let’s see how this turns out. If it’s still lacking you may have a point, but right now it isn’t reasonable in my opinion to demand being able to buy one of these 15 mill. Credits, regardless if they ****ed up things right now or not. So the grind right now would be way too much to get one these cars, but the argument you get out of it is just the one you want because your pissed, but it isn’t reasonable, cause you shouldn’t be able to buy these right now even if it weren’t broken, and also not with MT‘s, it just something really special, like end-game content in some way (if that is a decision you like is not what we discuss here, but it is more reasonable if you know about the classic car market and Kaz‘s enthusiasm for it than pure greed).
So don’t make a definitive argument out of a possibility because it could be like it.
And who says that they wouldn’t be aware about the possibility that people spend a lot of money on this?
You right, they could have did it like in GT Sport where you weren’t able to buy the legendary cars with MT‘s, but that wouldn’t have worked with the approach of the GT Cafe because you would’ve been able to buy the cars you need for the campaign, or they would’ve excepted a lot of cars what would’ve been also very weird.
Remember MT‘s were in GT Sport but you got all the DLCs for free, and for me that was a fair model.
So what would be your suggestion?
Ameer67
Premium
- 10,984
- Chicago
I'd say that shows frugality (which as a rich person might not be really necessary...) instead of stinginess. But I get your point.
- 181
- Pennsyltucky
- ruggermole
you can do a track day in a super car for less than $200. I know which one I would prefer to do.
- 585
- Turkey
- talhaONE
Let me see your Jaguar Xj13, Mclaren F1 and Porsche 917K. If you didnt felt any then you somehow bought those cars without MTX.
Fm7 has Porsche 917/20.
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- 2,195
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
Frugal is a good word to use. The people I know who have a decent amount of money are all frugal, and wouldn't dream of spending £200 on one in-game car. I'd say the people who are most likely to do something like that are people who are bad at managing their money and always struggling because they aren't good at analysing the value of things they buy vs the cost. I've known people with very similar incomes to each other, but some never have any money while others amass sizeable savings, and it's the ones who never have any money who would be most likely to waste money on credits in GT7.
- 263
- Munich
- Hitokiri-666
Well there is a easy way from PD/Kaz sight to solve this. Let say, they have 50 mio. Cr. Ferrari. They just have to introduce ingame debts. Meaing, that when you paid the down payment, about 20% of the price (50 mio. Cr car, => 10 mio. Cr.), you are commited to the car. After that you have to work off your open debts. To make sure you do this, all other funktioncs (multiplyer, scapes, sports etc.) in which you can not earn Cr. are closed for you! After paying the whole ammount you get your car, and the banned areas are again open.
Cool, isn't it?
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,441
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
The one thing I think we can be very sure about is in the game to be bought using either the in-game economy or real-world money, as such you claim that it shouldn't be is nonsensical.
You did say "Maybe it isn’t intended to own the most valuable cars in the first 2 weeks or all cars like some demand here", yet they quite clearly did intend for that to happen, or they wouldn't have give you two routes to do it, both of which have serious issues with them.
A point that you have not been able to support when asked two quite reasonable questions about, rather you have attempted to hand-wave them away.
That's all we have to base any discussion on!
Well that and the fact that PD have already made the in-game economy worse than it was at launch.
And who's responsible for that being absent?
Exactly why isn't it?
Even if you finished every event in the game you owuld not be able to afford one, so no it's not like 'end-game content' at all.
You, and others, have either inferred it or outright said it.
We actually have quite a few options.
The first and most obvious would be to build a product for release that has a balanced economy with sufficient events to do, that completion of them would allow you to purchase the majority of the content, which should be the norm for a first party AAA title!, you then add more events to use the new contnet with as it's added in, this has been done successfully with a range of other titles. Next, in terms of DLC, I have no objection to it being chargeable, provide tracks free and charge for cars, that way you don't split the on-line player base, and people knopw exactly what they are getting. This model works for the majority of devs large and small.
This, of course an aside from the point that a Sony Studio Creative Director stated that the reason why titles for the PS5 would cost $70 was to avoid the need for microtransactions in games!
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- 1,361
- Deadlights with Pennywise and the Balloons
- naughty_teddy1
some are some aren't. it varies.
like you say, some really know the value of money and will only spend on necessitates, assets that are likely to rise in value (millionaire next door types).
others want to 'enjoy it' more and happy to spend it on whtever they like. ie if you have 5 million sat in your bank, £200 may seem like loose change to you and strong chance you still have very high income, or generating wealth from assets, investments that make 200 seem inconsequential in scheme of things.
I know of people earning 20-40k a month after tax, so may not be big deal to those. not sure they're playing gran turismo though. Maybe Kaz will give me 'finders fee' if I can get them involved and buying credits
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- 263
- Munich
- Hitokiri-666
I can not help myself, I guess some feminist are right, when they say, that some men with the older age got lunatic! There are many popular examples from international politics. Some are even leader of their country, but behave like 3yo kids. Maybee... Kaz is no exception from this. :/ Sure he is not leading a country, but leading his company and beeing also vice president of Sony (SCE). The view for reality goes just away 
So... Kaz... if you don't want to see us grinding all day and all casual player beeing super pi**ed off. Just raise the cr. prizes for the races!! I mean I spend already 65,- € for the game. I don't see, why I should pay just one cent more for content, which is alredy on my bought disc!!
So... Kaz... if you don't want to see us grinding all day and all casual player beeing super pi**ed off. Just raise the cr. prizes for the races!! I mean I spend already 65,- € for the game. I don't see, why I should pay just one cent more for content, which is alredy on my bought disc!!
When your lucky, or a animation shows, how your driver get brutally beaten by some east europe, not to say russian debt-collectors. Kaz does not jokes around with this issue!And if you don't pay back the whole amount within a week, they reposess the car.
- 3,784
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Spending on credits is a bit dumb IMHO. Then again, this is pretty much like buying DLC.
I'm taking the big picture approach. GTS came out in 2017, so it's probably 2026-2027 before we see another iteration. That's plenty of time to save for credits. Plus, it's going to change again.
I'd like to be able to sell my cars, even to other players. I MIGHT sell you my LS swapped Miata
- 794
- Austria
Sorry but you seem to not be able to step out of your paradigm, the discussion is therefore very frustrating. I also made the mistake to think that you use some common sense, but you just want to be upset about Kaz and PD it seems and clearly don’t recognize how you yourself just interpret everything about this game and situation right now trough the filter that it’s all evil and intended to be like it is. So let’s not proceed with that dialog, it isn’t leading anywhere with that mindset
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Scaff
Moderator
- 29,441
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
You might want to try re-phrasing that without resorting to personal digs and assumptions. I've been polite and respectful of your position, to then try and then claim I'm wrong because I lack 'common sense' is simply not acceptable.
I don't think Kaz and PD are 'evil', I think they have misjudged the audience for MTX's within GT7, and that they may have gotten away with it if it were not for the fact that the server outage brought it more clearly into peoples focus.
I do however think the in-game economy is designed to push people towards micro-transactions, and the body of evidence around the design of the title supports that, something that also is, right now, a consensus within the gaming press and media.
I apologize upfront for continuing to bash this comment after so many others have. I do think that is their intent at PD. But what is it they are really saying? That if I waste more time than anyone else playing a video game I should be filled with pride? That if I splurge and spend $200 on a digital car I should have pride?
Neither of those things should give us any pride. They are warped accomplishments that do not require any skill. I'm not sure anyone should really have any significant amount of pride in their prowess at a video game but I can at least understand it if you get all gold in the license test and that gives you a sense of accomplishment. At least it signifies some skill development and understanding of how the in-game car handling works. With gold in the license test, you've accomplished something skill-based. Grinding to earn 20 million credits does not inherently mean you have acquired any great skill. And furthermore it reinforces a warped sense about how you should be spending your time.
Polyphony digital are actually incentivizing poor behavior when it comes to the in-game economy. They are incentivizing people spending inordinate amounts of time or money on their title. Video game usage is already pretty damn addicting, we don't need to push people in this this type of way on top of that.
- 40,767
No. You're using yourself as an example to dismiss the criticism. You're not slick.
Keep repeating it. People might believe you.
The current state of the game is how PD deliberately released it. There's no reason for the game to be in the state it is in now other than that's how PD wanted it. Event payouts were PD's decision. Career structure was PD's decision. The amount of events was PD's decision. The microtransactions were either PD or Sony's decision. The cost of them was either PD or Sony's decision. This isn't "the game was claimed to be done but released in a disastrous state" like GT5 was. This was the game as they intended it to be; up to and including making major changes to it after the review period was largely over so they could try to get away with it. It's notable that Kaz did not do the "please understand we're actively working to solve all the problems" song and dance from GT5 and GT6 and GT Sport until after the disastrous response to patch 1.07.
There's no telling when (or, frankly, after GT6, even if) "a lot of events and stuff" will come to the game. The current state of the game is the game after PD deliberately modified it to make it harder to earn credits. The current state of the game is what we have now. Not some probably-imaginary future that Kaz wants people to believe will happen so they stop review-bombing the game and ripping it on social media and YouTube due to PD's own actions.
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- 306
- Alberta
- Rustyhole_PSN
- 29,983
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
There's no exaggeration, it is a cash grab. Every time you click on a car to buy (including the timed invitations, used and legendary cars) you are invited to top up your credits. That's cash grabbing. Here's a car you can't afford that will only be availalbe to buy for another day, it can still be yours now for £X.
I don't think anyone has argued they should have all the expensive cars right away, but what's been presented is such an inflated price point in relation to the in game economy it'll take some people literal years for them to obtain just one.
Agreed, but these RPG's also tend to have hundereds of hours worth of content and things to do without repeating yourself.
They were, but GT7 is the hardest game to save Cr for, the most effiicient Cr per hour net you less than 1m Cr per hour. In other games it was always more than that, except earlier GT titles, but GT1-4 had much different car prices (GT1 the most expensive cars for 500,000Cr, GT2's were 2m Cr, I think GT3's was the same and GT4's was 4.5m Cr. And you could save up to buy the most expensive cars in all of those in an hour or two without repeating the most efficient means.
GT5 onwards threw that economy scale out the window by reducing prize Cr in many instances (outside of one off prizes) and inflating prices massively.
There's clearly a balance to be had, as you progress in the game the amount of Cr per minute should sufficiently increase. GT7 appears to have two big problems in this area, firstly, the most eficient races to grind Cr are not end game races and secondly there isn't that much in the way of race events and championships to prevent excessive grinding.
As it is, it would take over 20hrs of grinding the most efficient race (and landing the clean race bonus each time) to afford the McLaren F1 alone. On top of that, there are numerous other elite level cars (including at least one that is more expensive) that you need to keep grinding for if you have any hope of obtaining any of them.
The game should be long enough and balanced enough that by the time you have reached the late/end game races, you can naturally afford some of the more expensive cars. You don't need to be able to afford all without grinding, of course not, but you should be able to afford something that rewards you for reaching that late stage of the game.
As I said before, there's a balance to be had, and a perfecly balanced game that's well designed will see a person winning all their races having little need for repetition outside of choosing to repeat events by choice alone.
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Is my math right
Car costs 180 USD, and it takes ~45 hours of fisherman's ranch to afford it. So the in-game car which we already paid full price for costs you around $4 per hour. That's more than half an American McWorker's wage. LOL.
Also can anyone actually put the required 45 hours into the game before the car rotates out of the dealership?
edit
Probably all of the wage after tax. GT7: The Real Poverty Simulator
Car costs 180 USD, and it takes ~45 hours of fisherman's ranch to afford it. So the in-game car which we already paid full price for costs you around $4 per hour. That's more than half an American McWorker's wage. LOL.
Also can anyone actually put the required 45 hours into the game before the car rotates out of the dealership?
edit
Probably all of the wage after tax. GT7: The Real Poverty Simulator
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