Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread
- Thread starter sems4arsenal
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- 1,306
- Canada
For those of you talking about how hard it is to score a PS5, have you even really tried? I'm not talking about popping into a store you're walking by and asking if there are any Playstations in but actually looking online.
I got one at launch, my brother (who barely touches his) got one last Christmas, and well over half my PSN friends list has one. A bunch of people I know haven't had much issue getting one either (here in Canada).
I got one at launch, my brother (who barely touches his) got one last Christmas, and well over half my PSN friends list has one. A bunch of people I know haven't had much issue getting one either (here in Canada).
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- 6,293
- Canada
Not really.
As an example, the car models in GT Sport are ported over straight from GT6…straight from GT5 as a matter of fact.
That was the whole approach that PD took starting with the PS3 generation. Instead of having to remodel cars with every new console, they made effort to over model the cars so that they could simply be ported to future consoles.
Similarly, car models from GT Sport will be ported straight to GT7 on PS5. Again, PD has continued to over develop the car models, so they can simply port them to the next game.
Same thing goes with laser scanning tracks. PD doesn’t want to constantly rescan the same tracks with each new console. They would rather spend the resources expanding the number of tracks that get laser scanned.
- 5,674
- Paint booth
- FMecha_EXE
- 612
- Italy
are trees a bit improved over gt sport? It seems so
- 735
- Maryland, USA
I love how someone is absolutely thrashing around a little Fiat 500 out there. How Gran Turismo can you get?
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- 16,162
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
- 13,867
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Whether a console is hard to obtain isn't the metric you would use to make that business decision. How many consoles are in the wild is, and the PS5 is the fastest selling console of all time for Sony. Of all the Playstation console releases, PS5 is the one that it makes the least sense to have a cross platform game on if you're looking at it purely for sales of software.
It's possible to flag tracks as having a max player count that isn't necessarily the same as what the maximum player count the game could support is. That's what iRacing does, player counts are determined per track and it works just fine. It means that small tracks don't get overloaded and large tracks still get to fill up to a reasonable degree, just like in real life.
You're right that more cars is not always better but that should ideally be decided based on what gives the best gameplay, not because the game has been designed not to be capable enough to allow the choice.
Online lag is just a part of Polyphony's network design. If they can't design an online system that can cope with more than 20 people then they need to try harder, spend more money or hire in someone who knows what they're doing. When you look at what other games do with online, 20 people max for any mode is pretty mediocre and not really what you'd expect from a first party studio working on a flagship franchise.
- 1,279
- Melbourne
- Nicky-Boy_7
I hope it's the former.
GT6 online was a blast, my first and only online-racing stint, but boy, was it fun!
GT6 online was a blast, my first and only online-racing stint, but boy, was it fun!
Quakebass
Premium
- 1,895
- Washington
- quakebass
Since my PS3 broke several years ago I’ve had the opportunity to start fresh on GT5 v1.0 on borrowed consoles quite a few times. I don’t really see how launch-spec GT5 was a dumpster fire. Load times were worse (but they were never good, not even in GT6), there was a bug that would reset transmission settings, course maker had a few less options in the generation algorithm, tire temp/smoke calculations allowed for some odd occurrences in FWD cars, and PP wasn’t yet implemented… but I don’t really see how it was a mess, nor how Spec II was a dramatic change. There was never an expansion to career mode with any new content, and as far as I remember, updates actually reduced payouts and eventually shut off online functionality (gift cars/sharing), and minor physics adjustments made some of the license tests (especially the later braking tests) near impossible with out exploits. Spec II was content-heavy (or at least was for the time), but didn’t bring much change to the game or structure, it was primarily QoL upgrades.
Did it?
GT6 didn’t get delayed. It’s one of if not the only GT game that actually came out on it’s originally scheduled release date. Many core features on the other hand…
There may have been debate amongst the community, but it’s abundantly clear internally GT6 was always intended to be a PS3 title with how much was squeezed to fit its hardware bottlenecks (adaptive tessellation is a very good example). Rendering, lighting, resolution, and physics all got some pretty hefty updates - increased width upscale (1280-1440), again tessellation, body roll and suspension are all examples.
This reads like you feel GT5 Spec II was a bigger change to 1.0 than GT6 was to 5… which is just wrong. GT5 feels far “flatter” than 6, and there’s a fair amount of visual upgrades. 6 was a massive QoL upgrade too, with all parts available from the trackside tuning menu and engine/weight not being perma mods, visual options got upgraded massively and in general there was far less menu navigation necessary.
That said, I strongly prefer 5 to 6 due to the structure and design of career mode and other features, but that’s a different discussion.
Is it?
Again, is it?
GT games are well known for having long development cycles, and it seems we either could’ve had one GT game on PS3, two on 4, or one on PS4, two on 3. Ultimately Sony/PD decided 6 should be on PS3 because they thought install base would drive better sales, but as it seems the adoption of PS4 was so fast not nearly as many cared to pick up a new game only available on the old obsolete hardware.
Even with active development on 6 easily two years into its release (see the course maker), less than four years passed between the launch of 6 and Sport, which was a pretty significant rebuild compared to the PS3 games (GT5 took six years even with 60-75% of its assets being carried directly from the PS2, such was the hell of learning the odd cell architecture, 6 built off the experience of 5, took three years and had at least 80% of the same assets from 5 but still had a fairly robust physics upgrade). With console life spans ranging around 6-8 years, the natural expansion of development times with the increase of complexity and detail seen in all genres was always going to ram launch windows at awkward generational transition points sooner or later.
This reads like GT7 is going the same route as 6, which it isn’t - it’s the first cross-gen game in the franchise. Sony/PD (sort of) learned their lesson from last time and didn’t lock the new game to dying hardware. The PS5 is becoming more and more attainable now, but that wasn’t necessarily a projected guarantee a year ago. I think I can understand the move for cross-gen due to Covid and uncertainty of PS5 availability for new games, and it sucks. It certainly will be limited by the need for parity between the old and new generation hardware, but surely there can be a lot of room for scaling with resolution, frame rate, and LoD on base PS4.
The rest of what you’ve said mirrors a lot of my feelings, but that string drawing to 5 and 6 development I really don’t see as highly impactful to what occurred as of late, as I said earlier at some point GT was going to hit a point where it was squished uncomfortably between two generations. I think Covid and production shortage is the primary cause of the cross-gen decision, and for that reason I’m hoping there can be a dynamic release of constraints of the PS4 as time goes on and more PS5s are adopted, potentially eventually a shutoff for PS4 cross play/development that can let PS5 GT7 development go unrestricted.
- 128
- Netherlands
- CoopR_26
This is my viewpoint as well. Idk how it works in other countries, but here I can just place a pre order at a local store and then i get placed on a list. As soon as the next batch comes in, I get my console. I placed a pre order in November 2020 and got my console in February 2021. A long wait but its definitely 'easy' to get my hands on a PS5 here.
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- Philippines
Damn, baseless assertion after baseless assertion. Now, that's a new record! There are dozens of pic comparisons here on GTplanet that disprove your opinion. All cars in GTSport were all re-modelled for the their new engine. And they captured new sounds also. There's nothing wrong porting GTsport car models to GT7, they're incredibly high quality anyway.
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- Neomone
The long development time of GT5 definitely threw off the timelines for the next games afterwards, but I'm not sure how fair it is to blame the Cell. Yeah, it was notoriously weird but everyone who made games for the PS3 had to deal with that. Polyphony as one of the top Sony first party studios were probably the best placed of anyone to make the most of it, they potentially had access to Sony internal resources that third parties didn't.
IMO, GT5 took so long because Polyphony kept changing their mind on what they wanted it to be and adding features. Feature creep will kill any project. It started off as Gran Turismo HD/Vision Gran Turismo, which then turned into GT5P (where a full game would presumably have been something like GT3 or GTS but on PS3, a small game with high quality). And then those two ideas merged into the behemoth we ended up getting with all the GT4 content plus new content plus a course maker and weather and day/night cycles and a thousand cars.
It was a massive, massive overreach after years of already dicking around with other variants on what the game could be. Because lets be honest, GT5 1.0 isn't a game that represents 6 years of work from a studio of Polyphony's size, budget and competency. It's two or three years of work after they stopped changing their mind on what they wanted, presumably sometime after GT5P was released.
That's recognising that the people doing the work are probably fairly competent, but they're powerless in the face of the sort of management incompetence that we've seen fell games like Anthem and Cyberpunk in modern times. GT5 did the right thing and delayed until the game was at least in a semi-reasonable state instead of just shoving it out the door, but the reason that happened is almost certainly project management related.
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- Canada
never said there was anything wrong with porting the models, just saying that they do it.
That was the whole approach PD took starting with GT5. They didn’t “redo” all the models for GTS from scratch.
Edit: and if they did redo all the models from scratch, then they went back on their reasoning that was presented to us during the 5 and 6 era, during the uproar over standard models. The whole point was to start building a digital catalog that didn’t need to be completely remodelled every time Sony release a new console.
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- dacc10
They clearly realized that GT5 and 6 Premiums weren't good enough for PS4 onwards. They may not have modeled the cars from scratch, instead updated the models with new/improved textures, higher resolution, etc. The overall shape of the cars is most likely the same. This is probably the reason that we got kind of outdated cars from launch, instead of newer models, they would rather improve existing models, having some percentage of the work done already, instead of modeling entirely from scratch. Given the car list was cut to 1/3 of the GT6 premiums, it's safe to say they didn't simply port them over to GTS.
Given the difference in quality between GT6 and GTS models, it's safe to say that GT6 Premiums wouldn't last past PS4 or PS5 anyway. Now, the new models, we can't see how they can improve them, so now they might/should stay the same "forever". Cars in GT might have reached the peak, they can't get more realistic than, well, realistic. Future GT games might only need to focus on adding more cars and tracks, instead of replacing existing models. Also, future consoles, won't have a giant leap in graphics. Once again, you can't go past realism, instead, more powerful hardware will focus on higher FPS, AI, drawing distance, how many NPCs and/or players can interact in one place, etc.
Given the difference in quality between GT6 and GTS models, it's safe to say that GT6 Premiums wouldn't last past PS4 or PS5 anyway. Now, the new models, we can't see how they can improve them, so now they might/should stay the same "forever". Cars in GT might have reached the peak, they can't get more realistic than, well, realistic. Future GT games might only need to focus on adding more cars and tracks, instead of replacing existing models. Also, future consoles, won't have a giant leap in graphics. Once again, you can't go past realism, instead, more powerful hardware will focus on higher FPS, AI, drawing distance, how many NPCs and/or players can interact in one place, etc.
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- Canada
GT6 was the game that landed at the awkward transition, thanks to the delays of GT5.
PD and Sony should have bit the bullet, released a 3.0 DLC for GT5, and made GT6 a PS4 launch title. Then Sport should have been a DLC part way through the PS4, with GT7 a PS5 launch title.
If online lobbies were seperate between PS5 and PS4, it’s no issue. But since there’s cross generation lobbies, GT7 will be limited by the PS4 for the entirety of its lifespan (or until PD shuts off PS4 access to online GT7 lobbies, which will never happen).
In regards to GT5 release, it was a disaster. The release of 2.0 demonstrates this. The transmission bug wasn’t minor - this was a Gran Turismo game where you couldn’t make a custom transmission tune. That’s major. The AI could barely function on some tracks.
As someone who put well over 1000 hours into both 5 and 6, in practice, there was basically no difference. Except that we lost shuffle racing in 6, for no apparent reason, and have never seen or heard from it again. Oh, and we got magic hand holding TCS that couldn’t be turned off, which was a giant kick in the nuts to the drifting community.
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- Neomone
There's a difference between not starting from scratch and building upon established models, and "the car models in GT Sport are ported over straight from GT6…straight from GT5 as a matter of fact".
What you said was literally not true. Straight porting suggests that they were carried over with no changes at all. Porting of assets in general is assumed to be without changes unless specified otherwise. It's nit-picky, but the reason people took issue was the specific language that you used.
Models that are upgraded versions of models from previous generations generally aren't referred to as ports, as there's pretty limited value these days in differentiating between models that are wholly new and models that are build upon other historical models. If a model is not identical to what has appeared in other games and meets the standards of the game it appears in, then few people actually care how the developers got there.
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