Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[ScottPuss20]

What’s IA?

AI or Artificial Intelligence. However in Spanish the descriptor/adjective usually comes first so to them it's intelligence artificial. I think.

 

[HarVee]

What’s IA?

International Arsekicking.

 

[Imari]

I did. TLOU2. Perfection. ❤️

Rofl. Of all the games to pick.

GT7 have a clearly better IA than GT Sport, I dont know how much but they work on it. If they don't make a good IA is not becouse they not wanted.

No. If they don't make a good AI it's because that's exactly what they wanted.

This is a massive first party developer. If they want to make good AI then they have the resources to make it happen. If it doesn't happen, it's because they didn't want good AI. That's it. End of story. There is no situation in which they tried but it was just so very difficult that they couldn't make it.

The dog didn't eat their homework, they just didn't want to do it.

...I not defending PD at all.

Uh huh.

I disagree with "they not put the same effort with the IA", we really dont know. You can see how many they are and the results but not the people or how they work.

Lol. You think that one guy can do the same work as 30? How incompetent would the 30 people have to be in order for that to be true?

 

[Auditore]

Rofl. Of all the games to pick.

TLOU2 gets close,it does all areas very well,from story to gameplay

 

[Samcastor]

Lol. You think that one guy can do the same work as 30? How incompetent would the 30 people have to be in order for that to be true?

Eh, depends on the work. One programmer might actually do work you might need a team of 30 people to properly accomplish and scapes does fit into that category. They probably have to lug around specialized equipment and a team all over the globe to get that data. So counting people who were involved on-site for many locations I can see the number of people working on scapes being quite big.

 

[nissimp]

Ridiculous, 15x more people working on scapes than AI and physics testing combined. Kinda infuriating

The only reason Scapes has so many people working on it is because they actually had to travel to those places in separate groups. If all GT Sport scapes were from the same city, you'd have like two people credited

 

[Samcastor]

The only reason Scapes has so many people working on it is because they actually had to travel to those places in separate groups. If all GT Sport scapes were from the same city, you'd have like two people credited

Yep, this is like complaining that each movie credits 10x as many people for lighting/filming crew compared to writers, doesn't mean that they did not hire enough writers lol.

 

[BigSarj]

Sony and Polyphony had an AI breakthrough years ago when they managed to copy and upload Kaz' consciousness into the Gran Turismo AI. This might explain why it exhibits the idiosyncrasies it does as well as their refusal to scrap it and start over.

TLOU2 was a masterpiece.

 

[Nowax]

Sony and Polyphony had an AI breakthrough years ago when they managed to copy and upload Kaz' consciousness into the Gran Turismo AI. This might explain why it exhibits the idiosyncrasies it does as well as their refusal to scrap it and start over.

TLOU2 was a masterpiece.

Imagine having a robot with Kazunori's consciousness, the robot wouldn't stop talking about how weather works and all kind of philosophies to the car culture

 

[Imari]

TLOU2 is pretty good.

It certainly is. It's an excellent game in many respects. It's quite possibly one of the best games of the generation. It's very not perfect. It's not that people shouldn't enjoy it or think that it's great, but even a great game can still have obvious room for improvement.

A bit like Gran Turismo, really.

 

[JD_18]

You've played GT7!

No, so don't claim that the AI is better as if it were fact. You think the AI is better based on a small amount of video footage, but that's a long way from it being a fact.

Yeah its small but significant to wach some improves

Rofl. Of all the games to pick.

No. If they don't make a good AI it's because that's exactly what they wanted.

This is a massive first party developer. If they want to make good AI then they have the resources to make it happen. If it doesn't happen, it's because they didn't want good AI. That's it. End of story. There is no situation in which they tried but it was just so very difficult that they couldn't make it.

The dog didn't eat their homework, they just didn't want to do it.

Uh huh.

Lol. You think that one guy can do the same work as 30? How incompetent would the 30 people have to be in order for that to be true?

The AI problems doesn't exist in massive part developer.




"lol. You think that one guy can do the same work as 30?"

Another fallacy called "false equivalence", I never say that.

 

[Imari]

The AI problems doesn't exist in massive part developer.

No, I said that if a big developer chooses to have AI problems then that's because they've chosen to do that. Not because it's hard.

You think Naughty Dog couldn't make good AI? I think Naughty Dog spent their time and resources on other things. You know, like Polyphony does.

"lol. You think that one guy can do the same work as 30?"

Another fallacy called "false equivalence", I never say that.

Let me introduce you to the wonders of punctuation. This is a question mark.

?

It denotes when a sentence is a question.

You didn't say that one guy could do the same work as 30. You implied it. So I asked the question explicitly. Do you think that one guy can do the work of 30?

 

[o000o]

And we dont get the best audio yet. The game develop is hard and complicated.

That solutions are way unrealistic and superficial. They are not dumbs, if it were easy they would do that.

This is when someone expects the best on a feature but turns that into unreasonable argument...

The audio may not be out of other games' leagues like Scapes, but doesn't mean that there's not actually a noticeable improvement in the audio y'know. Now GT's audio goes from terrible, vacuum cleaner-sounding to being really good.

Sometimes cars just aren't as loud as some people make them out to be, the remaining improvement in GTS sounds was the shifting sounds for example, but that's a significant improvement from previous ones

A good racing game is one where I can have fun in it. I enjoyed Forza Horizon 5. I enjoyed DiRT Rally 2.0. I enjoy a lot of racing games from my youth that I think still hold up in most regards - including most GT titles.

I also have DiRT Rally 2.0 and plan to buy Forza Horizon 5 in a cheap way (if my cousin can get it for really cheap price and not a pirated one). But no offense but racing games being good equates to the ones you personally enjoy is just highly subjective. There can be people who just have fun with Arcade racing games and can't stand any sims, even the semi sims (not hardcore) like GT, even writing off those as bad games due to how "boring they're", though I'd think writing off things as bad only because it's not of their preference is just plain off wrong. Not being on one's preferences =/= bad.

Though still, GTPlanet is the only place so far where there are no complete 100% constant praise and adoration for Forza Horizon 5 (or other Horizons), like there are criticism of it being too similar (sounds familiar to GT criticism), no real challenge, etc.

Though still, regarding older GTs, those games still have the menu picking type career mode, ****** AI, annoying licenses, barebones presentation, the duplicate cars/boring car selections, as well as terrible car sounds. While those are in older eras (for the justification for those older games), there are older games in that era that has comprehensive career, great AI, interesting presentation, and great car sounds right?

Ridiculous, 15x more people working on scapes than AI and physics testing combined. Kinda infuriating

So this is a real proof that more people DOES get the job done better. My constant complaint of PD is that they should hire more people, they should hire more people, they should hire more people.... and there are some objections against that like about how more people can make it less focused or such like....

Albeit there are news about PD on hiring spree (on English applications too, and redone on 2019), and now PD has 300 workers. Just hope that the bigger number here is actually utilized (for AI to make it balanced with Scapes workers... no wonder Scapes are leading the industry with 28 people). And there are also terrible stuff in GT7 from previous trailers before, like High Speed Ring's environment, but now they've fixed it.

TLOU2 gets close,it does all areas very well,from story to gameplay

Still subjective regarding the story part, but I wish that TLOU2's praise here won't have people only consider anything that is overly dark and gritty as the only good and the only way to create a story, perpetuating and normalizing any horrible stuff in process like treating any humans as assholes or irredeemable bastard as completely ok or "necessary" (along with the talk of how monstrous humans are).

 

[JD_18]

No, I said that if a big developer chooses to have AI problems then that's because they've chosen to do that. Not because it's hard.

You think Naughty Dog couldn't make good AI? I think Naughty Dog spent their time and resources on other things. You know, like Polyphony does.

Let me introduce you to the wonders of punctuation. This is a question mark.

?

It denotes when a sentence is a question.

You didn't say that one guy could do the same work as 30. You implied it. So I asked the question explicitly. Do you think that one guy can do the work of 30?

They couldn't, actually in the second game one of the best things of the game is the AI.

"They’re able to sneak through environments in a way that it was just impossible to do on the PS3 because we were very limited in our resources to do anything."

https://gamingbolt.com/the-last-of-us-part-2s-friendly-and-enemy-ai-has-receive-a-huge-overhaul

Game developing doesn't work like that, they had tecnical problems, hardware limitations, engine limitations etc

This is when someone expects the best on a feature but turns that into unreasonable argument...

The audio may not be out of other games' leagues like Scapes, but doesn't mean that there's not actually a noticeable improvement in the audio y'know. Now GT's audio goes from terrible, vacuum cleaner-sounding to being really good.

Albeit there are news about PD on hiring spree (on English applications too, and redone on 2019), and now PD has 300 workers. Just hope that the bigger number here is actually utilized (for AI to make it balanced with Scapes workers... no wonder Scapes are leading the industry with 28 people). And there are also terrible stuff in GT7 from previous trailers before, like High Speed Ring's environment, but now they've fixed it.

Still subjective regarding the story part, but I wish that TLOU2's praise here won't have people only consider anything that is overly dark and gritty as the only good and the only way to create a story, perpetuating and normalizing any horrible stuff in process like treating any humans as assholes or irredeemable bastard as completely ok or "necessary" (along with the talk of how monstrous humans are).

I agree with you, was just context about how hard is to make games and it not as easy like GT planet user thinks, Im not defending PD, I simply disagree with the reason behind about why they can't do a good IA.

 

[05XR8]

In regards to the sound, one of the interviews I read, mentioned he wasn’t Involved in the sounds, as much as he was for the first couple games. He then was more involved since GT6 or GTS.

 

[MenocidiX]

That's the point, aside from the windshield banner, of course, I predict that if front windshield decal placement is a thing, only a small area to the side would be customizable. Can you imagine the stuff people would create with a fully customizable front windshield? Lightning McQueen everywhere. I don't think PD would allow that level of absurdity.

People put weird things everywhere, but it might still apply to PD logic. Tbh I was just wondering if covering windows could have been a nice workaround for the missing window tint option.

 

[KevinHeryanto]

You can transfer your DR/SR too apparently from GT Sport.

Notice: Data Transfer From "Gran Turismo Sport" to "Gran Turismo 7" - gran-turismo.com

We will be transferring data from Gran Turismo S...

www.gran-turismo.com

 

[soc123_au]

You can transfer your DR/SR too apparently from GT Sport.

Notice: Data Transfer From "Gran Turismo Sport" to "Gran Turismo 7" - gran-turismo.com

We will be transferring data from Gran Turismo S...

www.gran-turismo.com

That is great news.

 

[Twannie01]

Rofl. Of all the games to pick.

No. If they don't make a good AI it's because that's exactly what they wanted.

This is a massive first party developer. If they want to make good AI then they have the resources to make it happen. If it doesn't happen, it's because they didn't want good AI. That's it. End of story. There is no situation in which they tried but it was just so very difficult that they couldn't make it.

The dog didn't eat their homework, they just didn't want to do it.

Uh huh.

Lol. You think that one guy can do the same work as 30? How incompetent would the 30 people have to be in order for that to be true?

We dont know if the 30 for scapes are FTE, maybe all 30 are hired just for example 1 scape and took them less then 40hours a week for years?

So we dont know, also we dont know how many sony FTE worked with PD FTE on the AI...

 

[TheRacer94]

No money?

 

[Scaff]

Yeah its small but significant to wach some improves

I believe what you are saying is that you have seen what you think are small but significant improvements in the AI.

I understand that English isn't your first language, so I want to be 100% sure.

If that is the case, can you please explain what these improvements are?

 

[MagpieRacer]

We dont know if the 30 for scapes are FTE, maybe all 30 are hired just for example 1 scape and took them less then 40hours a week for years?

So we dont know, also we dont know how many sony FTE worked with PD FTE on the AI...

This is it, they could have just taken a few photos on holiday that became scapes and boom, on the credits.

 

[DPereira_2909]

I believe what you are saying is that you have seen what you think are small but significant improvements in the AI.

I understand that English isn't your first language, so I want to be 100% sure.

If that is the case, can you please explain what these improvements are?

I mean, in the Deep Forest video they looked pretty combative and weren't moving at snail pace. But then there was also the Daytona video and SoP so I don't know

 

[MagpieRacer]

I mean, in the Deep Forest video they looked pretty combative and weren't moving at snail pace. But then there was also the Daytona video and SoP so I don't know

I think the only crumb of hope I took from Deep Forest was that red Mazda passing a lot, but it could just be OP rather than good AI.

 

[MroczMR]

I think the only crumb of hope I took from Deep Forest was that red Mazda passing a lot, but it could just be OP rather than good AI.

For me the biggest "hope" for AI was Aventador making pretty nice overtake of BAC MONO on red bull ring gameplay. Offcourse after that it slapped the brakes on exit, but this could be due to loosing control a little bit.

 

[DPereira_2909]

I think the only crumb of hope I took from Deep Forest was that red Mazda passing a lot, but it could just be OP rather than good AI.

I just don't get how they're so bad at doing good AI with so many resources. Kunos, who I think had like 20 employees at the time of the original AC, managed to program a pretty good AI. I'm a very fast driver, and I have to put in a decent shift to beat the AI on Alien, and they're great fun to race against too.

Imagine what PD could do if they actually tried

 

[MagpieRacer]

I just don't get how they're so bad at doing good AI with so many resources. Kunos, who I think had like 20 employees at the time of the original AC, managed to program a pretty good AI. I'm a very fast driver, and I have to put in a decent shift to beat the AI on Alien, and they're great fun to race against too.

Imagine what PD could do if they actually tried

To me there's a big difference in what defines good ai. Fast AI isn't always good AI, it's just hard to beat. Good AI to me is an AI that will defend, attack, put you under pressure etc.

 

[nissimp]

guys any idea at what time they will announce the ai thing?

 

[Scaff]

I mean, in the Deep Forest video they looked pretty combative and weren't moving at snail pace. But then there was also the Daytona video and SoP so I don't know

The question is, how reflective of the final product was the Deep Forest footage, or any footage for that matter.

What I mean by this is, was that footage directly captured from gameplay, or was that a scripted replay more akin to a benchmark test (and yes this does happen and no its not actually that hard to do)?

The former would be a good direction for the AI, the latter would mean we still don't know.

 

[Auditore]

In a few parts of the State of Play presentation you could see some AI losing control and spinning in the corners.Did that happen in GT Sport and earlier GTs?