Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread
- Thread starter sems4arsenal
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- 13,913
- Adelaide
- Neomone
You've already proved willing to make up definitions, so I'm sure you can define yourself into a world where there is literally nothing new, innovative and good to add to a racing game.
Good luck with that, but it seems insane to me to look at a product and think "yep, absolutely no way that this could ever have anything new and good added to it". I've got a pretty low opinion of Polyphony's design skills, and even I think they're capable of coming up with new, innovative and good ideas.
- 16,566
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Plus the GPS track creator feature that you conveniently don't think will be innovative because you've made up your own definition for words. Which is absurd. Might as well make up your own definition of other words, like fact. Did you know that it's a fact that Gran Turismo has sold less copies than Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing?
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- AWRacing17
- 3,140
- United Kingdom
I don't see why they couldn't use base models of cars to allow players to create their own gr4 or gr3 cars, having them meet the required specifications and even BoP'd if needs be. With gr4 you can even expand beyond the models we have ingame due to their similarities with road variants anyway, if I tune a Mini to gr4 standards with an aero kit, it should be able to race in gr4.
Seems like a good innovative development of the Racing Modification system to meld with the categories of GT7.
I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Re-read my post.
- 13,913
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Why would I bother trying to answer that question when you'll just shoot it down? Whatever I say, you'll find some definition of "new", "innovative" or "good" that means it isn't. You've already decided that every possible feature has already been tried in a game.
So figure it out for yourself. Some of us still think that there is truly innovative stuff out there to be discovered, and I mean that in the real sense of innovation, not in ScoPy-ese.
That's sort of the point. If we're just making stuff up then nothing really matters. You can easily make up your own definitions for words like "fact" or "sold" or "copies" that make that sentence 100% true.
- 2,087
- United Kingdom
- AWRacing17
I know what you're doing with your post tryin to link the sales figures of two entirely different games(one that was really a terrible game) with the use of definitions, in this case the use of the word innovation.
The comparison to the definition of the word and your satire in game sales figures is just a clear indication of the fact that you'll use a superfluous argument to try make the other user seem incompetent, congrats you look soo smart on the internet now.
Two people have earned the ignore button, seriously the constantly off topic rants and targeting of people's use of language is a joke.
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What? He used his own definition for a word, I was pointing out how if you're going to do that with words it makes discussion of anything pointless. Yes my example might have been a bit hyperbolic, but the point remains.
A GPS course maker would be an innovation in racing games. Now that is an actual fact, by the actual definition of the word. Not the definition he made up.
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- 285
- England
- GT_reddevil321
I love the fact that the latest direction of this discussion thread has gone from talking about the up-and-coming update to the definition of words! It’s quite entertaining to an extent.
To be fair, I always assumed “Innovative/Innovation” meant either new or groundbreaking ideas never really considered/thought of before so I guess based on what I’ve seen I’m somewhat correct (if not, then fair enough) for my assumption at least.
Mind you, back during the days of Gran Turismo 1/2/3 and 4 I guess, a GPS course maker would never have even been properly thought of back then so I guess that was an innovative idea - so it’s probably more difficult due to technological advancements to truly come up with a genuine innovative idea today but I’m sure some here can brainstorm.
To be fair, I always assumed “Innovative/Innovation” meant either new or groundbreaking ideas never really considered/thought of before so I guess based on what I’ve seen I’m somewhat correct (if not, then fair enough) for my assumption at least.
Mind you, back during the days of Gran Turismo 1/2/3 and 4 I guess, a GPS course maker would never have even been properly thought of back then so I guess that was an innovative idea - so it’s probably more difficult due to technological advancements to truly come up with a genuine innovative idea today but I’m sure some here can brainstorm.
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I can't resist a word argument!
For me, the dictionary definition of "innovative" may mean any change, but I would argue that in common usage it usually refers to a beneficial change. When companies talk about their products as being "innovative" they don't usually mean "we've changed it and made it worse".
But ... I can't agree that any computer game has reached such a state of perfection that no further innovation is possible.
For me, the dictionary definition of "innovative" may mean any change, but I would argue that in common usage it usually refers to a beneficial change. When companies talk about their products as being "innovative" they don't usually mean "we've changed it and made it worse".
But ... I can't agree that any computer game has reached such a state of perfection that no further innovation is possible.
- 436
- Switzerland
You are talking to someone who doesn’t even own the game and never seen Gt7 on his tv. Everything else is pointless. Sad for him, honestly
When replicating real world sport I don’t think there is much that can be truly innovative. Unless you start delving into areas that are gimmicky.
More could be done with B-Spec and driver/team management. Likewise weather & environmental simulation could be more in-depth. But that’s improving on the ground work already in place.
I do think PD have been truly innovative in two areas. Sport mode & Sophy AI. I recall before GTS released their was huge scepticism public racing could be clean. But Sport mode has given us just that. With a community that, to some degree, self regulates, particularly at the higher levels.
Then we have Sophy AI that could revolutionise the immersiveness & scalability of AI. There is still scepticism this will come to pass. But you can’t on one hand demand innovation, then write-off such an ambitious project, because it’s challenging. PD & Sony will be judged on their results.
More could be done with B-Spec and driver/team management. Likewise weather & environmental simulation could be more in-depth. But that’s improving on the ground work already in place.
I do think PD have been truly innovative in two areas. Sport mode & Sophy AI. I recall before GTS released their was huge scepticism public racing could be clean. But Sport mode has given us just that. With a community that, to some degree, self regulates, particularly at the higher levels.
Then we have Sophy AI that could revolutionise the immersiveness & scalability of AI. There is still scepticism this will come to pass. But you can’t on one hand demand innovation, then write-off such an ambitious project, because it’s challenging. PD & Sony will be judged on their results.
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- AWRacing17
It's not even about owning the game or not anymore, just the constant pursuit to show how someone is wrong and the mistakes they've made in their posts that's just ridiculous,
There is no pursuit.
He asked what could be innovated in the game when someone said there was no innovation in GT7.
When given examples of what could be innovative, he claimed they were not innovative in his definition of the word, even if they were in the dictionary definition of the word.
Where are you supposed to go with that?
- 13,913
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Right, god forbid people should say what they mean. That's just madness.
Sport Mode is cool but it's definitely not innovative. Several games did similar things well before GTS, starting with iRacing in 2008.
Sophy AI is definitely innovative, but Polyphony aren't doing the work there. Sony's AI team are. GTS is just the simulation being used to provide the AI an environment to interact in. The AI research work would probably function about as well in any sim that could provide the appropriate outputs, but it's a Sony project so of course they use the simulator from a Sony subsidiary. They'd be fools not to.
However, if Polyphony were to take the Sophy team's AI and implement a robust version of that in GT7 I'd say that's still innovative. We've had ML AI in racing games before, but nothing quite on this level. I think taking an established concept to a radically new level of quality such that it becomes a substantially different experience counts as innovative.
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- Zimbabwe
Why does it have to be something that no other games have tried? Does that mean that good, new features from other racing games cannot be adopted by GT?
Does that not contradict your idea that innovation needs to have mass appeal?
If we are going to be that strict, Sophy is not at all innovative. AI has been around for decades. Neural network machine learning is not a novel concept that PD/Sony invented. Forza's already implemented neural network machine learning AI in the form of Drivatars years ago.
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Scaff
Moderator
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- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Not at all sure how you could read that chain of posts and come to that conclusion at all?
iRacing would beg to differ by almost a decade
Machine learning used to develop a racing titles AI isn't a PD or Sony innovation at all, you could argue that the approach Sony (not PD) have taken to it is, but the overarching concept certainly isn't (Moto GP 19 for example used exactly that).
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- Italy
- alex_y_diegooo
UPDATE COMING OFFICIALLY TOMORROW
There’s a world of difference between a high cost, specialist product, like iRacing. And a mass market title such as Gran Turismo. To this day it’s near impossible to find clean racing on public lobbies with console racing titles.
I’m sure even the most outlandish ideas have been tried in one title or another. What matters is the outcomes for the player. Whether that’s through PD’s penalty system & messaging. Or the community policing itself.
Likewise with AI learning. Milestone’s system manages the pace of riders. With strange braking points and speeds at different difficulty levels to hit a certain time.
That’s not of interest to me. Same with Sony/PD boasting about Sophy AI beating top players times. Where it gets interesting is racing in a realistic manner and the possibility to scale performance levels without the need for rubber banding.
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- 590
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- alex_y_diegooo
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Scaff
Moderator
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- He/Him
- ScaffUK
You have managed to utterly and completely miss the point that you claimed these were areas, and I quote...
"I do think PD have been truly innovative in two areas."
...if other titles have done it before then PD haven't innovated, they have copied them. Taking a proven concept and releasing it on console (in the case of Sport mode) doesn't make it innovative.
That you have attempted to shift the argument on Sophy to one of racecraft and scalability is, to be honest, absurd, given that Sophy to date has demonstrated neither of these things! Not to mention that racecraft and scalability in simracing AI isn't innovative, it should be among the minimum standards for it.
- 285
- England
- GT_reddevil321
Well they’ve just released the update trailer so make of that if you will:
I apologise if this isn’t the actual thread to post this…
- Catalunya (No Chicane Layout/National Layout/Rallycross Layout)
- McLaren MP4/4 ‘88
- Pontiac GTO “The Judge” ‘69
- Porsche Cayman GT4 ‘16
I apologise if this isn’t the actual thread to post this…
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