Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,193 comments
- 494,489 views
- 50,744
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Listen, I’m hoping PD can use the tools they’ve acquired for the past 25 years and knock our socks off. I know the game has to appeal to everyone. I’m realistic and optimistic. I’m prepared for the possibility the game won’t change much and I’m all for being surprised with goodness. I play GT games(and other racing games) to watch my replays. It’s the closest I get to racing cars at a track( like being able to race right this second) and immediately watching them like watching real race series I enjoy.
Many of us want to see GT games improve. Many of us share the criticism not of hate, but of hope. Some have stepped away to never return to the franchise and rightly so. Some will never leave the franchise full stop
Many of us want to see GT games improve. Many of us share the criticism not of hate, but of hope. Some have stepped away to never return to the franchise and rightly so. Some will never leave the franchise full stop
- 444
- Sweden
It would be relevant to somehow state that you're a gamepad user when talking about realism or physics. To me, only discussion about driving with a proper FFB wheel with proper FFB settings is relevant. Joystick steering is assisted ********, and I'm glad I rarely see it in daily races.
- 29,981
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Not at all, that's just gatekeeping. Pad users experience the same lack of LSD as wheel users and the same odd behavious over curbs as wheel users. There may be assists smoothing out inputs but let's not gatekeep or create some sense of superiority. Players all have a right to an opinion, right opinion, wrong opinion, they all have a right to base that opinion on whatever peripherals they use to play.
Infact, to turn this on it's head, pad users have even more of a right to a say in some sense since they make up the vast, vast majority of users. Therefore in a democracy they would have the largest voice by far.
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- 2,404
- The failed experiment entitled “California”.
I’m hoping that GT7 supports peripherals such as butt kickers and the like. I posted on Fanatec forums a few times saying they would be retarded not to capitalize on this new partnership and make GT-related peripherals in the way of bass shakers, button boxes, whatever! I know there’s a lot of middle-aged (or approaching middle age like me 😲) that were in their “formative” years when Gran Turismo first came out. Now we got a few bucks in our pocket and would totally nerd out over that stuff. I know I would!! All in the excuse of realism!!
- 16,067
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
You don't want to put your car into a slide at all.
It's crap out of the box but once you tune the controller settings, it's perfect. Better than GT Sport.
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- 50,744
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Exactly. I understand some don’t want to have to set up their controller. Some want to plug and play. I get and most of us get all that. However, just as you say, some don’t understand the controller in other games gives excellent feedback(as much as is possible with a controller).
I‘ve read all the time about members here not going back to a game pad once they tasted the wheel. Especially when they have to set up the pedal boxes and dampeners all that extra stuff, over some sliders on a controller. That’s fantastic wheel players can enjoy the games with extra feeling.
That’s why it ain’t as simple as, “Oh, you’re on a pad. That’s your problem right there. Go play Tetris.”
- 13,848
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Driving is driving, and if someone is clean and fast it doesn't matter if they're doing it with a wheel, a pad or a sausage stuck in a bowl of mayonnaise. Get off your high horse.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,264
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
Yep, that's fine. There's no perfect FFB when it comes to sims. Some people like overly communicative FFB, some people like purer more realistic FFB. It's just like a language that you have to learn. I can drive both GT and AC style FFB just fine. I'm just trying to explain why PotatoKing might have trouble catching slides in AC at first. It's not because of bad physics, he just needs to acclimatise with the different FFB first.
ICEYOU3
(Banned)
- 2,031
- Selatapura, Usea
@Monkey Man and I approve this comment.Ridge racer 8 please
- 387
- Crete
I like to drive that way
. I spend way more time on older machinery, such as 911s and Lotus F1 cars. Yes they are hard to drive but they are just too much fun to throw around and it feels really rewarding to catch a slide with them.
- 1,925
- United States
I like to drive that way
No, no. You're doing it wrong. You're not supposed to have fun playing the game. You're only supposed to care about your lap times. 😂
- 444
- Sweden
Most pad drivers are erratic, causing crashes since they weave all over the place. Using that gyroscope in the pad instead of the joystick eliminates this problem however.
Many "casual" players or beginners are actually faster on a pad. My firm opinion is that this is because of built-in assists. The game won't let you flick the wheel dangerously quick nor pass the slip limit at a certain speed. It's simply much easier to drive, especially cars that have severe lift off oversteer (like grp. 3 Audi R8 or Renault R.S. 01, 911 95- and so on). You just have to wham the joystick or tilt the pad if using the gyro and trail brake - the game doesn't let you turn the in-game wheel too much or too fast.
I understand why the assists are there - it's near impossible to be without them when you don't have FFB, since FFB allows you to feel what's going on and respond accordingly. And the range of motion of a small joystick, or when tilting the pad, is too small to let you have proper control.
So, where am I going with this? Since I consider GT Sport to be primarily an e-sport, and e-sports and sportsmanship is all I care about, the conditions for average players using wheel and pad aren't the same. They are different on a quite fundamental way, and one of them is having an unfair advantage - wheel users in top lobbies and pad users in lower lobbies.
Personally, I'm always above average in racing (IRL and virtual) so I don't care about that specific element. The only minor nuisance is the occasional fast pad driver that's weaving all over the place, without crashing or ruining the tyres within 1 lap - that's annoying and disturbs immersion.
Steer however you want, and it has nothing to do with prestige, but don't cause crashes. And in sports the conditions between the competitors should be as alike as possible.
Also, assisted pad steering - in my opinion - doesn't belong in a discussion about driving physics since FFB is such a large part of it.
And finally: I don't have a solution and don't consider it to be a big problem. It's better to have pad players in the player pool than to be without them, like in ACC/iRacing. While whining about this, I'm actually happy about pad players being able to race among wheel players.
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- 13,848
- Adelaide
- Neomone
FFB is it's own separate discussion. You can turn the FFB off on your wheel and it doesn't change the physics at all. It changes the driving experience and it changes your ability to most effectively interact with the physics in a dynamic situation, but it's not at all necessary in order to evaluate whether the fundamental physics are behaving correctly or not.
Likewise, steering assists and the like don't change the fundamental physics either. They can make it harder to figure out what's going on if the assists are not clear about what they're doing, but it's ultimately possible to evaluate the physics even with assists. The exception being assists like SRF that actually do fundamentally change either how the physics operate or key variables within them.
What you seem to think of as "driving physics" is a combination of the actual physics system of the game combined with the input and output/control systems - basically the whole chain of subsystems that a driver is going to be interacting with. If you're primarily interested in how the game races, then I understand that perfectly. It's a practical approach.
But there's been a lot of games out there in the last decade or so with really quite good physics but shockingly abysmal controls. Stuff as simple as a shoddy brake mapping curve can make a game very difficult to drive. Reversed FFB makes a game damn near undriveable. Because "hardcore" sim games are so niche a lot of them seem to release in early access or something similar, and so it becomes worth talking about the underlying physics separate from the control systems. Control systems are often easy to fix, either by the developer themselves, the user tweaking options or the mod community creating patches. Physics rarely change in fundamental ways.
That's why you'll see people like myself who like talking about the physics systems from multiple games usually talk about the physics completely separate from as many other functions as possible. And why I say above that control method doesn't matter for talking about the physics. The point is to evaluate the physics themselves, not the physics + the controls.
Good underlying physics is important, because the best FFB wheel in the world doesn't help if the car physics are wonky. But a game with good physics can still be raced clean and fast on a pad or a joystick or even a keyboard, it just takes the developer doing the work to overcome as many of the limitations of the input device as possible.
A good FFB wheel is always going to be best because it best replicates the real life controls of a car. But a pad is fine, and if people are bad drivers with a pad it's not the pad's fault, it's because they're mouthbreathers who think that the fastest way through a corner is by bouncing off the side of your car. People can be **** with wheels too, it's just less common because people that spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a peripheral have probably taken the time to get at least moderately decent with them.
When you say "most pad players are erratic" it's actually just a combination of "most players use pads" and "most players are absolute garbage at racing". It's not an innate pad problem.
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- 4,716
- Indiana
- CWM_Spirit
I’ve been playing with a controller using joystick for almost nine years now. What I can say based on my experience is that while GT Sport has artificially dampened the steering input for controller users, it doesn’t influence the ability for controller users to be in control of their machine and race side-by-side one bit. If it did I’m positive I wouldn’t have as many friends that I do.
It’s quite annoying to see over and over again people say that controller users are fundamentally incapable of racing with those (or on the same level as those) who use steering wheels and aren’t qualified to speak about the game in whatever relevant aspect (physics). Nevermind the suggestions I’ve seen previously that controller users should be segregated. I can sense enough of what’s going on that I can effectively tune a vehicle to behave the way I need it to. I think that’s enough to be qualified to talk about the game physics if I want.
It’s quite annoying to see over and over again people say that controller users are fundamentally incapable of racing with those (or on the same level as those) who use steering wheels and aren’t qualified to speak about the game in whatever relevant aspect (physics). Nevermind the suggestions I’ve seen previously that controller users should be segregated. I can sense enough of what’s going on that I can effectively tune a vehicle to behave the way I need it to. I think that’s enough to be qualified to talk about the game physics if I want.
- 444
- Sweden
- 5,645
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
I understand what you are saying… shoot my A/S rating is majority from controller use competing in sports mode. Whatever a player can afford to play with whether it’s a controller or wheel doesn't matter to me. As you said both tools can be used to be competitive. What I am saying is using a wheel your going to be faced with different sensation that you would not get from a controller. These sensations are not minor either, it’s a different game using a wheel doesn’t matter what sim your playing.
Eh? Players here might be slanted towards wheel but the overwhelming majority of the whole market plays the game with a pad. Wheels are for enthusiasts, and even then price and somewhere to put it can be a barrier for most people.
- 444
- Sweden
A console can be used to play hundreds of games and comes with a controller that functions with them all. A wheel is used only for racing games. Let's not pretend it isn't a big investment, it is. The cheapest good wheel set (not some cheap plastic rubbish with no pedals, no FFB and 180 degree rotation) is a couple of hundred of whatever currency you buy things in. That's a lot of money to put into a handful of games for most people, even if they are an enthusiast.
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