Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,508 comments
- 538,540 views
- 9,969
- Denmark
How so? Cars still snap violently if you floor the throttle too early coming out of a corner in powerful RWD cars. Players who say they can now do this without losing noteworthy traction must be playing a different game than me.
I find there are still benefits to the partial throttle technique for maintaining car momentum and balance mid turn. Not to say nothing changed, but treating the accelerator as an on/off switch will definitely still kick out the rear dramatically in any RWD road car above 500 PP.
I havent tried Gr3 cars, but for road production cars and the radicl sr3 this is Absolutely not true.
Maybe its the fact you are on a gamepad? All those "invisible" stability aids and input filterings on the gamepad make the game feel completely different no matter pre/post latest patch. Gamepad playing is so much easier, in a sense.
Obviously im on a wheel.
In daily A, if i hit any kerb with the radical, the car will become extremely upset. If i mash the throttle i will still spin.
The big difference is that now we can drive with a bit of slip angle, the Ffb and physics are still very inferior to pc sims tho,but i guess thats what happens on a simcade that try to replicate anything from a beetle to a gt1 car, which is fine by me.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I'm the wrong person to be doing this, so I lost my marble for a second. But on comfort mediums I only managed a 1:12.996 after turning assists off. Doing that made my laps less consistent, and I only beat my assist time by less than a tenth of a second. I also spent a lot of effort to keep from losing it, so those who say "assists slow you down" and "you can't lose these cars," you one percenters are a funny breed. Not for the rest of us plebes.
I was also reminded that I don't like comfort tires, and I don't like Tsukuba, though it is a nice enough track. It's just so constrained for me. And my RL car wreck has hamstrung me quite a bit. I hate to hear tire squeals except in well tuned / race cars, and I hate how most sports cars feel on their "firm" suspensions. Many feel about as floundery as the Crown Victoria I wrecked in. This is the first Gran Turismo in which the cars scared me, though a lot of that has to do with the 1.07 update physics / tire model, as well as those darn penalties.
I had a much better time switching to sports mediums, with a 1:06.943. I'm resigned to the fact that I'll never be superfast.
I don't know how more accurate or worse this build is, but it is nice to be more in control of the car. And it gives me hope that the team can massage something in the future that should please most of us. Some people can't be happy with a bar of gold.
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- 2,433
- The failed experiment entitled “California”.
I have a half baked theory about the new found rear tire grip on some cars.
Taking ACC for a baseline, a game which simulates TC very well, it’s almost impossible to get rear wheel spin if you’re using realistic TC settings for that specific car.
Maaaaaybe, PD knows their TC implementation is forked, so they’re changing some settings they have more control of to simulate accurate “TC feel” that a lot of these real life GT3 cars have.
That…
Or they put their thumb heavy on the other end of the grip spectrum on purpose, and are watching the community for feedback. No harm in that, and probably smart of them
Taking ACC for a baseline, a game which simulates TC very well, it’s almost impossible to get rear wheel spin if you’re using realistic TC settings for that specific car.
Maaaaaybe, PD knows their TC implementation is forked, so they’re changing some settings they have more control of to simulate accurate “TC feel” that a lot of these real life GT3 cars have.
That…
Or they put their thumb heavy on the other end of the grip spectrum on purpose, and are watching the community for feedback. No harm in that, and probably smart of them
- 38
- United Kingdom
At the end of the day, GT7 has to be good on a pad and a wheel. I imagine the vast majority of GT7’s user base will be using a pad. It’s probably very challenging for PD to balance the two so that players aren’t disadvantaged either way and can compete against each other fairly, with both requiring a similar skill level to gold the licenses etc and have an equal challenge to earn credits. Perhaps this has had a knock-on effect on the physics.
And it’s clear that people will have different opinions on how the physics feel depending on which control method they use. Just something to bear in mind
And it’s clear that people will have different opinions on how the physics feel depending on which control method they use. Just something to bear in mind
- 760
- United States
Whew! I just went out with this setup and managed a 1:10.684 best with the bone stock RZ on CM, although averages hovered in the high 1:10s to low 1:11s. I think you're putting out a great time with this specific setup! I've still got some time left coming out of the turn 4 hairpin and right through turn 5 keeping on the throttle into the turn 8 hairpin. It's pretty hard to balance this pig on throttle sometimes, and there's a fine balance blasting into 8 giving it as much throttle as it can take.
Still super fun though.
For those saying "this is GT Sport now".... no. Flat out no. Fire up Sport, play the same setup back to back, then get back to us how far off they still are. Sport is still a million times more planted, uncommunicative, and wooden than 7 is. And guess what guys?! GT3 cars on warm slicks grip like hell! The new model is simply closer to reality than the old one full stop, and it's really funny to see all these comical armchair positions with wild comparisons and opinions. I'm so sure that the M6 GT3 trying to light its rears up on RH slicks through most its gears was SO realistic.
The influx of armchair experts babbling about TCS (who cares) and what who thinks of what is getting pretty comical. Count me into one of the minority that's happy with the changes, and looks forward to more.
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- 77
- United States
I like the new physics… I haven’t driven all the cars yet though. At least for me I can actually control a lot of the RWD, MR, and RR cars that were completely undriveable before the update. I only use sport tires on the street cars and it’s nice not to be spinning the wheels ridiculously in 2nd gear at 55 mph while in a straight line in a car with only 345 horsepower. Sometimes it would be impossible exit corners properly even with below half throttle input. My only issue is I had to retune all of my cars and the little transmission trick for my 550PP cars got patched out lol.
- 1
- France
It doesn't seem like it drastically changed, but I can definitely say from what I played (mostly the sr8 laguna seca race and a bit of the dodge gts), it is now manageable on TCS 0, when it wasn't before. Loss of grip seems a lot more progressive and I found myself catching more drifts like I would on AC or AMS2.
G29 here, the FFB is definitely the weakest link for me. It lacks a lot of detail and subtlety compared to what I get on Assetto Corsa (and even less detail than AMS2 or RF2). After playing for a while and forgetting about it I can live with it, but going back on PC sims is definitely a big improvement in that area every time. I guess wheel players are not enough of an audience for PD to really care.
As far as realism go, I can't say because I have not ever driven cars that mad on a track... What I can say is, spending a lot of time in GT7 and switching to AC really doesn't seem to force me to adjust much... So I'm pretty convinced GT7 is realistic in most areas that matter, and it convinces me I'm driving a car ... enough??
SR8 around laguna seca on GT7 for hours (PB at 1:38.300, I guess that is slow ? Don't know), and then SR3 mod on assetto corsa, the handling felt quite similar with recognizable characteristics. I'm loving the game. I really think it's a friendly environment to play with the reward systems and all, and most if not all the experience gained on GT7 definitely transfers to other racing sims so not that simcade anymore I'd say? Or maybe it's just me haha. I should add that I never enjoyed GT Sport physics half as much, it felt so planted that it didn't seem believable to me, cars felt a little... dead inside ?But that's my noob opinion..
I'm also wondering if GT TCS on 0 is equal to "authentic" driving aids, meaning if the car has TC irl, it has one still. I really don't know how TC works because a lot of the old cars don't have it yet they still have a setting from 1 to 5 on GT so... dunno!
G29 here, the FFB is definitely the weakest link for me. It lacks a lot of detail and subtlety compared to what I get on Assetto Corsa (and even less detail than AMS2 or RF2). After playing for a while and forgetting about it I can live with it, but going back on PC sims is definitely a big improvement in that area every time. I guess wheel players are not enough of an audience for PD to really care.
As far as realism go, I can't say because I have not ever driven cars that mad on a track... What I can say is, spending a lot of time in GT7 and switching to AC really doesn't seem to force me to adjust much... So I'm pretty convinced GT7 is realistic in most areas that matter, and it convinces me I'm driving a car ... enough??
SR8 around laguna seca on GT7 for hours (PB at 1:38.300, I guess that is slow ? Don't know), and then SR3 mod on assetto corsa, the handling felt quite similar with recognizable characteristics. I'm loving the game. I really think it's a friendly environment to play with the reward systems and all, and most if not all the experience gained on GT7 definitely transfers to other racing sims so not that simcade anymore I'd say? Or maybe it's just me haha. I should add that I never enjoyed GT Sport physics half as much, it felt so planted that it didn't seem believable to me, cars felt a little... dead inside ?But that's my noob opinion..
I'm also wondering if GT TCS on 0 is equal to "authentic" driving aids, meaning if the car has TC irl, it has one still. I really don't know how TC works because a lot of the old cars don't have it yet they still have a setting from 1 to 5 on GT so... dunno!
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- 760
- United States
There are two things going on here. Assists slow you down is true for many, and not for some, BUT, and it's a big BUT, turning them off and learning how the car drives in all scenarios without something you don't control intervening is how you get faster. If you always rely on TCS to step in at points when you don't get the throttle right, you won't ever learn how to get it right yourself. Assists are only faster for those that haven't developed the skill set to be better than the TCS. And it's really easy to be better than TCS.
So while you absolutely can use TCS, it will never allow you to learn anything beyond it, and you'll never be as fast as you could be without it. I'm not very special, and neither are all the other people who are fast without assists, but we would have never gotten any better if we resigned to using it in the first place.
And again, to all of you who say "but TCS in real life cars" sure, if your grandma is driving in the rain to the store, TCS and ASM/ESP is good. But in my cousins ATS-V or my Audi S6, or my old E46 M3 on track TCS is DANGEROUS with the way it steps in and cuts throttle. Once you learn how to drive a car, any system that serves to intervene with the natural way that cars moves is unwarranted, likely much slower, and potentially dangerous. Predictability and ability wrought from practice is safe. Knowing that the car is going to do the same thing given an input is safe. Some dumb system cutting in and forcing your hand is not. And this isn't just my view, it also belongs to just about anyone who drives cars for a living.
All in all, TCS is a bandaid that covers the need for more practice. And while it's perfectly fine to use it and like it, it is simply not faster, better, more fun, or more realistic than turning it off.
Well, in this case I'm a fan of current viewpoints of individual opinions, whereas you're a fan of month-old worn out views based on previous outdated models of a game, spouting off blanket statements that make it look like you have zero comprehension of what's going on around you, and doubling down on that childish viewpoint when pushed.
Glad that you're happy with yourself considering all that.
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M3 E46 tuned to 450 hp,1154 kg and , sport soft or even racing hard, with areo,LSD and suspension setup ,still needs a lot of throttle control.
I really can't see where the game should be ruined and back to GTS, where i can mash throttle in 650 hp over cars and understeer like a Powerful FF car.
Are you sure to remember how GTS was?
I really can't see where the game should be ruined and back to GTS, where i can mash throttle in 650 hp over cars and understeer like a Powerful FF car.
Are you sure to remember how GTS was?
- 3,991
- Netherlands
Man, this is such a big physics overhaul! It feels like a totally different game. The handling feels way more flat like GT Sport, less dynamics. In fast corners, there's now ZERO percent oversteer in a Huracan at LeMans, or the R92CP at the fast Fuji right hander. Flooring the trottle, you just understeer off track.
I'm so sad now, I loved how the physics were. It was so sensitive to your inputs and because of that very interesting to drive, every fast corner was pure joy.
Unfortunately, not anymore. I wanted to do some races to get the Nissan Skyline GT500 car, but I can't be bothered now with these physics. All of the fun is gone.
Please return to the old physics, PD, or please just let use choose which physics we want, between this model and the one before this update. Please. I was enjoying driving so much...
I'm so sad now, I loved how the physics were. It was so sensitive to your inputs and because of that very interesting to drive, every fast corner was pure joy.
Unfortunately, not anymore. I wanted to do some races to get the Nissan Skyline GT500 car, but I can't be bothered now with these physics. All of the fun is gone.
Please return to the old physics, PD, or please just let use choose which physics we want, between this model and the one before this update. Please. I was enjoying driving so much...
- 828
- United Kingdom
So driven the new physics for the first time today and here's a little take on it, ignoring the fact the kerbs aren't much of an issue now (they should be an issue. The increase in rear grip is way, way too big, and it appears they've increased it pretty much the same across the board
I've used the 458 GT3 for over a year, including putting up with the pain of its horrendous BoP in the recent Manufacturers Championship. That car now has so much rear end grip, that it just understeers on acceleration. Even with BoP off, making it lighter and much more powerful, you still can't break traction around the Interlagos hairpins meaning when you accelerate, it doesn't rotate, the rear grips and it just pushes to the outside of the track. The car is now less competitive than ever as a result, its strength was its handling, well they've taken that away with this update and actually made the car slower
Now most people won't have been driving that car (with good reason!), so I also had a go in the Jag on the Dragon Trail Circuit Experience.
2nd gear on corner exits was quite twitchy previously, now it's not. You can happily plant your foot with few worries that it's going to snap on you, twitches are easily corrected and saved, in fact, this car has more rear grip than the Ferrari used to have
I'm not saying which is more realistic, I'm not a real life racer. What I am saying is they've destroyed any balance they had with this update. By increasing rear grip making FR cars easier to drive, they've made MR cars (certainly Ferrari and Lambo) go too far. Their rear end is insane and as such they're completely unusable now
So yeah, I liked how it all felt when GT7 came out, the cars felt 'alive', I hate this change. All seems to have been done to make things easier for people
I've used the 458 GT3 for over a year, including putting up with the pain of its horrendous BoP in the recent Manufacturers Championship. That car now has so much rear end grip, that it just understeers on acceleration. Even with BoP off, making it lighter and much more powerful, you still can't break traction around the Interlagos hairpins meaning when you accelerate, it doesn't rotate, the rear grips and it just pushes to the outside of the track. The car is now less competitive than ever as a result, its strength was its handling, well they've taken that away with this update and actually made the car slower
Now most people won't have been driving that car (with good reason!), so I also had a go in the Jag on the Dragon Trail Circuit Experience.
2nd gear on corner exits was quite twitchy previously, now it's not. You can happily plant your foot with few worries that it's going to snap on you, twitches are easily corrected and saved, in fact, this car has more rear grip than the Ferrari used to have
I'm not saying which is more realistic, I'm not a real life racer. What I am saying is they've destroyed any balance they had with this update. By increasing rear grip making FR cars easier to drive, they've made MR cars (certainly Ferrari and Lambo) go too far. Their rear end is insane and as such they're completely unusable now
So yeah, I liked how it all felt when GT7 came out, the cars felt 'alive', I hate this change. All seems to have been done to make things easier for people
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FerrariF40
(Banned)
- 404
- Australia
Has the FFB-dampening changed?
For example at Daytona track experience, in the oval my wheel easily starts to shake / oscilate now.
Before update it wasnt like that in my opinion.
For example at Daytona track experience, in the oval my wheel easily starts to shake / oscilate now.
Before update it wasnt like that in my opinion.
- 3,991
- Netherlands
FFB feels like it has changed too. Something is seriously wrong. I'm a bit sad for you now mate, as you won't get to experience the F40 with the physics as they were before.
They need to go back to the old model, or let us choose between a 'realistic' and 'arcade' model, like in the F1 games!
Ok clearly theres a divide in people who use a pad or wheel.
Then theres the divide between GR cars and N cars.
I think pretty much everyone can agree a 200hp car on road tyres should not break the rear out in a large radius corner in top gear going like 100kmh even at full throttle, which was the case pre patch.
As to GR cars, i cant say, i never played GT to drive those cars, frankly i was hoping theyd focus more on street cars in GT7. All i can say is driving the radical in race A with only abs on a wheel was challenging for me. I drive stick and clutch and im so happy they let us do that in sport mode again! I got 1:38 as best time around laguna seca, thats me really rusty not playing more than a couple of times per month lately.
If i hit any kerb at seca with the radical car gets very upset. If i mash the throttle on exit car spins, but the big difference is its manageble now.
Idk, its a game, atleast now its a bit more fun and i would say true to life. No sim is perfect, but anybody whose driven a car irl at some kind of increased pace should be able to judge the past physics as quite exaggerated...
Then theres the divide between GR cars and N cars.
I think pretty much everyone can agree a 200hp car on road tyres should not break the rear out in a large radius corner in top gear going like 100kmh even at full throttle, which was the case pre patch.
As to GR cars, i cant say, i never played GT to drive those cars, frankly i was hoping theyd focus more on street cars in GT7. All i can say is driving the radical in race A with only abs on a wheel was challenging for me. I drive stick and clutch and im so happy they let us do that in sport mode again! I got 1:38 as best time around laguna seca, thats me really rusty not playing more than a couple of times per month lately.
If i hit any kerb at seca with the radical car gets very upset. If i mash the throttle on exit car spins, but the big difference is its manageble now.
Idk, its a game, atleast now its a bit more fun and i would say true to life. No sim is perfect, but anybody whose driven a car irl at some kind of increased pace should be able to judge the past physics as quite exaggerated...
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- 2,083
- United Kingdom
- AWRacing17
FerrariF40
(Banned)
- 404
- Australia
Past physics felt like ACC, which i liked, because you had to be careful, especially with throttle input and kerbs.
Now its just floor it.
"FFB feels like it has changed too. Something is seriously wrong"
When wheel is in center, it feels to loose now. This is maybe why the wheel is now bouncing and less dampened.
And when you gov over curbs at higher speed, you still feel no rumbling or whatsoever, just nothing. Joke.
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PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,514
- Cologne/Germany
- PirovacBoy
I just read your post and thought I’ll give it a try.
I always prefer driving Road Cars to Race Cars.
They taught me everything about Car Balance and Chassis Dynamics.
Under the old Physics, these Dynamics were much finer and more dynamic.
Nevertheless, I tried your Set up for the Combo.
The new Physics Model still feels as good as before.
Maybe, I’d say now even better.
It’s more controllable now.
Yet, the new Model still punishes you if you mash the Throttle.
Ah, by the way I did 5 or 6 laps and managed a 1.10‘4 I think 1.10 flat should be achievable with more seat time.
Road Cars with proper tires are definitely still my Cup of Tea in GT7, no matter if Comfort or Sport, these tires are just so much more entertaining to drive.
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
I talked about this in a post a few days ago, but this is again an issue of lumping in how the tires grip at all different points in their traction curve under the single label of "grip". The aspect that was especially unrealistic about the grip pre-update was the tires behavior at and past the limit. They've fixed this in the update, but they've also added loads of grip before the limit, so now the limit is way higher than it should be.
I saw screenshots on twitter earlier comparing LMP1 cars cornering speeds at the Porsche curves in different games and IRL, and in GT7 the LMP1 cars are cornering 40kph faster than iracing and almost 50kph faster than the world record lap IRL in an LMP1 car in the same corner. That's just absurd.
I think road cars are really close to ideal with this update, but the race cars just have way too much grip available until the limit. They need to keep the at the limit/over the limit behavior that they have now, but return the overall grip for race cars to something closer to how it was pre-update.
- 240
- Italy
- i7Ferrari
People waiting GT to become a full fledged simulator may wait their whole life, PD has to take compromises to make the game enjoyable for everyone. You can't expect a Weak/Strong setting for ABS and 5 levels of TC to work like the 8/12 settings real GT3s have IRL for both. I'm happy that they changed the physics even tho cars now have a little bit too much grip ON throttle now but in general the game feels better to drive.
- 1,338
- Utah
- RFLX_Niop
- N1op
I'd like to see times compared through the Porsche curves. The in-game speedo may not be anywhere close to reality.
- 1,565
- United Kingdom
I have to admit I’m struggling to come to terms with just how much grip is suddenly available. I’ve got some sort of oversteer PTSD as I‘m still terrified to engage that throttle until I’m bang on straight ahead 12oclock. It is undoubtedly more fun and less stressful, but a lot of nuance has been removed. There’s also no oversteer available when you want it or need it now. Mid corner you could sort of steer with the throttle and that’s not really the case anymore. These aren’t negative or positive judgements, just my observations. I would say though, that it’s easy for them to make it easier, but it will be a lot harder to release an update that makes the cars less grippy again. They may have painted themselves into a corner with such a drastic change.
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