Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[DjeeDjee]

How much you should be faster is really difficult to point out. You have different skills than the real pilot than posted that time. You have unlimited testing time, you have all the time in the world to make a setup, you don't risk your life.

Determining how much does this count on a laptime is impossible i guess.

The only thing that i'm sure about is that you should not be slower or on par.

Track experience is about getting a specific car determined by PoDi (it means you can't choose it) on a specific track.
Setups are not allowed mate. And who cares how much time I spend on it, I shouldn't be able to go flat in corners like Tertre Rouge or Porsche curves.
IMO, with a fixed setup, I should be slower than a professional pilot yes. The Gr.1 category is the worst one in terms of feelings, awful.

 

[Johnnn]

After my yesterday testing I can agree with optimistic people here. Changes are good. It's shifted and hard cars are less hard and normal cars are easier. Didn't see anything bad, it's still our physics with a bit higher grip and maybe some tuning. Nothing like GTS.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Ferrari is one of the most important brands, if not the one most important in car manifacturing, being production or racing.

That's it, liking them or not liking them is an entire different matter.

YOU also see it that way, since you are Italian according to your profile, I can also understand your point of view, even some others may see it that way.... BUT allow me the same as you allow yourself.. YOU probably love Ferraris.. As far as I know, this is even a "duty" for every Italian... grin (I hope you understand what that means)

I'm not Italian, so I'm under no obligation to love Ferraris or know them all, either way. And I can consciously avoid the information about the models of this manufacturer.

 

[sejtur]

YOU also see it that way, since you are Italian according to your profile, I can also understand your point of view, even some others may see it that way.... BUT allow me the same as you allow yourself.. YOU probably love Ferraris.. As far as I know, this is even a "duty" for every Italian... grin (I hope you understand what that means)

I'm not Italian, so I'm under no obligation to love Ferraris or know them all, either way. And I can consciously avoid the information about the models of this manufacturer.

I’m curious, what exactly makes you dislike Ferrari? You were talking about status, but what do you mean by that?

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

I'm repeating myself:

If you find the game "too easy" now, go race online against skilled drivers. You're most likely driving around too slowly in single player - with that pace you wouldn't be competitive online.

The cars are definitively not "too easy" to go fast in. If you think they are, you're not going fast enough.

And yes, I had no issues with the previous physics model either, without assists ever, either golding all CE or racing A/A+.

 

[Johnnn]

I'm repeating myself:

If you find the game "too easy" now, go race online against skilled drivers. You're most likely driving around too slowly in single player - with that pace you wouldn't be competitive online.

The cars are definitively not "too easy" to go fast in. If you think they are, you're not going fast enough.

And yes, I had no issues with the previous physics model either, without assists ever, either golding all CE or racing A/A+.

To me they are almost the same as before but with a bit higher grip and better pedal mapping. I can clearly feel everything of old physics. Strange are videos about how bad it is now. It's the same!

 

[xMAXIx79]

I’m curious, what exactly makes you dislike Ferrari? You were talking about status, but what do you mean by that?

How do you describe a feeling, an attitude, a belief that comes from the gut and less from the mind?
I don't like eating liver, or beetroot, or snails/frogs/insects... Other people love it... THAT'S perfectly OK too, I allow people to eat and enjoy these things as I have the right want to avoid these things because I don't like them. By the way, and here I'll pull the bow to the topic, I don't like the new "physics" in the game as much as I liked the old one. If it had been like this from the start sure I would like it because I would have gotten used to it and one thing is for ME it's still better than GTS ever was.

I don't really like the supposed "status" iRL of Ferraris or their owners, I don't have to know them personally or drive a Ferrari... I don't like it... I wouldn't even buy a Ferrari with a lottery win, maybe more a Porsche, but I'm not entirely sure about that either. I find Porsche fascinating, but I can't answer 100% whether I would buy one if I had the money. But what I can say .. As of today and assuming I would win the lottery big, I would buy a GT-R AND at least a or 2 BMW

 

[Amon]

YOU also see it that way, since you are Italian according to your profile

No, it's not a way of seeing it, it's the way it is as i said. If you don't thrust me check what every automotive historian has to say about it.

You may not like them, there is no problem about that. But their work being F1 racers, endurance racers, or production models is regarded by everyone who loves and understands cars as being one of the most important in the world.

That's it.

Having said that, considering the thread we're writing in, i guess our OT wen't on enough

 

[Amon]

Track experience is about getting a specific car determined by PoDi (it means you can't choose it) on a specific track.
Setups are not allowed mate. And who cares how much time I spend on it, I shouldn't be able to go flat in corners like Tertre Rouge or Porsche curves.
IMO, with a fixed setup, I should be slower than a professional pilot yes. The Gr.1 category is the worst one in terms of feelings, awful.

But in sims can run around as much as you want. Setups are not allowed in what sense, i don't follow you here.

Speaking of the last sentence, i guess it depends from the fixed setup, and feelings are highly subjective.

 

[xMAXIx79]

No, it's not a way of seeing it, it's the way it is as i said. If you don't thrust me check what every automotive historian has to say about it.

You may not like them, there is no problem about that. But their work being F1 racers, endurance racers, or production models is regarded by everyone who loves and understands cars as being one of the most important in the world.

That's it.

Having said that, considering the thread we're writing in, i guess our OT wen't on enough

My last comment on this!

I know Ferrari and I know their "value" to the automotive world (although you're welcome to doubt that if you want to)! Nevertheless, I don't give a **** about their individual models to the extent that I do NOT need to know their designations and codes.
By the way, I still have a couple of 1:18 scale Ferrari models from my childhood ( which wasn't easy ), I keep them for sentimental reasons, although they are Ferraris... I don't hate the brand, but it is mine also not so important that I stay up to date..... So where the hell is the problem?

 

[GTalaune]

YOU also see it that way, since you are Italian according to your profile, I can also understand your point of view, even some others may see it that way.... BUT allow me the same as you allow yourself.. YOU probably love Ferraris.. As far as I know, this is even a "duty" for every Italian... grin (I hope you understand what that means)

I'm not Italian, so I'm under no obligation to love Ferraris or know them all, either way. And I can consciously avoid the information about the models of this manufacturer.

Lmao, Ferrari is absolutely one of the most important brand in the world, not even talking about cars. It's just that big, I'm not even Italian.

 

[sejtur]

How do you describe a feeling, an attitude, a belief that comes from the gut and less from the mind?
I don't like eating liver, or beetroot, or snails/frogs/insects... Other people love it... THAT'S perfectly OK too, I allow people to eat and enjoy these things as I have the right want to avoid these things because I don't like them. By the way, and here I'll pull the bow to the topic, I don't like the new "physics" in the game as much as I liked the old one. If it had been like this from the start sure I would like it because I would have gotten used to it and one thing is for ME it's still better than GTS ever was.

I don't really like the supposed "status" iRL of Ferraris or their owners, I don't have to know them personally or drive a Ferrari... I don't like it... I wouldn't even buy a Ferrari with a lottery win, maybe more a Porsche, but I'm not entirely sure about that either. I find Porsche fascinating, but I can't answer 100% whether I would buy one if I had the money. But what I can say .. As of today and assuming I would win the lottery big, I would buy a GT-R AND at least a or 2 BMW

Okay, fair enough. And yeah, the current physics aren't as fun as te old ones to me.

 

[sejtur]

Lmao, Ferrari is absolutely one of the most important brand in the world, not even talking about cars. It's just that big, I'm not even Italian.

Some people don't care about chocolate either. It's his loss.

 

[Ashthebash]

So did this little video to show how stupid the rear grip is in the Ferrari, I mean who'd even attempt a standing start with no TCS...on wets?

 

[sejtur]

So did this little video to show how stupid the rear grip is in the Ferrari, I mean who'd even attempt a standing start with no TCS...on wets?

The 'UNDERSTEER' sponsoring fits very well with the new physics.

 

[Confi-User-3]

Isn't it exagerated? 3 seconds? By driving with 2 fingers and going flat where it's clearly impossible IRL?

No, I don't think it's exagerated.
1. You drive with RM tyres. RH should probably be the ones used for a Le Mans race. Improves the lap by about 2 seconds.
2. You don't have tyre wear, at least another second won.
3. You drive with an empty fuel tank. At least another second shoved off.
4. The circuit has more run-off compared to 2010 and is safer, another second won.
5. You don't need to worry about car damage and can attack more, can be up to another second.
All in all, you can decrease 4 to 6 seconds for a lap compared to real life. And with a 3:14 this would translate to a 3:19 or 3:20, which is virtually the times that Sarrazin and Duval were able to drive in 2010.
Now, of course there are people who can be even faster, but that's by exploiting much more of the game and the physics. All in all, I'd call these times quite spot-on.

 

[Johnnn]

Okay, fair enough. And yeah, the current physics aren't as fun as te old ones to me.

It's the same. What is different to you?

 

[DjeeDjee]

No, I don't think it's exagerated.
1. You drive with RM tyres. RH should probably be the ones used for a Le Mans race. Improves the lap by about 2 seconds.
2. You don't have tyre wear, at least another second won.
3. You drive with an empty fuel tank. At least another second shoved off.
4. The circuit has more run-off compared to 2010 and is safer, another second won.
5. You don't need to worry about car damage and can attack more, can be up to another second.
All in all, you can decrease 4 to 6 seconds for a lap compared to real life. And with a 3:14 this would translate to a 3:19 or 3:20, which is virtually the times that Sarrazin and Duval were able to drive in 2010.
Now, of course there are people who can be even faster, but that's by exploiting much more of the game and the physics. All in all, I'd call these times quite spot-on.

Nice points. I would remove points 2, 3 and 4.
Tire wear is not a problem in qualy, specifically at Le Mans.
Same for fuel.
Regarding more run-off? Not so sure, and the track limits are awful in Gran Turismo on this track.

So let's say 3 seconds, even if it's exagerated as they use Soft tires IRL during the night mostly.
Still don't buy the 2 fingers driving style and flat out tricky corners.

 

[Techlet]

So did this little video to show how stupid the rear grip is in the Ferrari, I mean who'd even attempt a standing start with no TCS...on wets?

So you showed that you still had to correct the car with steering input and throttle modulation or it'll break loose from a standing launch. What's the issue?

 

[4everdelayed]

I'm repeating myself:

If you find the game "too easy" now, go race online against skilled drivers. You're most likely driving around too slowly in single player - with that pace you wouldn't be competitive online.

The cars are definitively not "too easy" to go fast in. If you think they are, you're not going fast enough.

And yes, I had no issues with the previous physics model either, without assists ever, either golding all CE or racing A/A+.

Nah, Mario Kart physics wont magically become difficult to master in a competitive setting (but at least Mario Kart physics are fun though lmao). The updated physics are for the casuals that want to feel like they would totally be able to drive a sub-6 minute lap on the Nordschleife with the F1 car from the 80s.

I understand PDs dilemma. The skill gap in racing games is incredibly big. However, we wont be seeing celebratory posts about how someone golded a difficult license test anymore, nothing will be a challenge, and GT7 will be a boring and tedious game. Everyone will get gold on their first try in everything, they will never spin out, and why not drift like Daigo Saito in a Porsche 917. The thing is that easy games are very quickly forgotten. Difficult games will always stay relevant (e.g. souls games that are almost 10 years old). PD chose the path of short term gain with the casuals and alienate the players that would stick around for more than 2 months. I hope it works out for them.

After playing the license tests on day 1, I was really considering getting a PS5 because I was having so much fun. Now, Im glad I didnt waste €500.

 

[Techlet]

Actual GT3 racing drivers have come out and said that physics before the patch were "terrible" and not even close to reality.

Do people actually want a realistic driving game or do they just want something that finally makes them feel special?

 

[Confi-User-3]

No, I don't think it's exagerated.
1. You drive with RM tyres. RH should probably be the ones used for a Le Mans race. Improves the lap by about 2 seconds.
2. You don't have tyre wear, at least another second won.
3. You drive with an empty fuel tank. At least another second shoved off.
4. The circuit has more run-off compared to 2010 and is safer, another second won.
5. You don't need to worry about car damage and can attack more, can be up to another second.
All in all, you can decrease 4 to 6 seconds for a lap compared to real life. And with a 3:14 this would translate to a 3:19 or 3:20, which is virtually the times that Sarrazin and Duval were able to drive in 2010.
Now, of course there are people who can be even faster, but that's by exploiting much more of the game and the physics. All in all, I'd call these times quite spot-on.

You can't ignore points 2 and 3 because this really exists like that in the game. By default you win about at least a second of lap time in Time Trial because of the missing multiplicators. That's a fact.
I have done many endurance races in GTS when we were driving the stints with multiplicators and the quali without. The difference was noticeable and, as I said, about a second for each of these factors, although fuel might very well be more significant than the tyres.
As I said, I think the lap times are mostly spot on. It might not be for every car and track combination, but at least the 908 on La Sarthe is quite accurate.

 

[Johnnn]

Difficult games will always stay relevant (e.g. souls games that are almost 10 years old).

You don't understand racing sims then. It's about racing. DS is boring gameplay full of grinding. Maybe you like it, it's fine but it's for very small audience and it's good only for them. It's boring **** to me.

GT7 is still amazing like before because they really worked on new physics since GTS.

 

[Techlet]

Good game design is what makes games relevant (and GT7 is pretty lacking on this front).

Gatekeeping the "casuals" is what kills games fast. Games, especially live service games, can't survive on only a small hardcore audience. Just look at what's happened to Overwatch if you want a recent example.

And none of this has any relevance on GT7's physics, which have made strides in the right direction in simulating real life cars.

If you're concerned that your strawmen casuals are now able to go "sub 6 minutes on the Ring with a [car that doesn't exist in GT7]", what's stopping you from going even faster? Why do you care what other players get up to in license tests? How does that affect you?

 

[Skython]

Actual GT3 racing drivers have come out and said that physics before the patch were "terrible" and not even close to reality.

Do people actually want a realistic driving game or do they just want something that finally makes them feel special?

For those individuals hard = realism. If they're not violently convulsing at the wheel to get a road legal sports car with 300 or so BHP out of a turn at 50% throttle, it's pretty much Mario Kart.

 

[Dave A]

I feel what your saying, but also understand a lot of people have never pushed and prob wouldn’t push a car as they would in any sim… so that where I like to take the real track guys advice… the regular people including myself 9/10 have never pushed a car with electronic aids off at the speeds you play in GT/ any sim. So yeah hard doesn’t always equal realistic but being able to control a car easy and feeling like you shouldn’t have to use TC/ASM/CSA to stroke one’s ego is also not realistic.

Again I am enjoying the production cars after this update I haven’t touched race cars yet. We have our GT7 GT3 cup Michelin series resuming next week so I am eager to feel how my GT3cup Porsche feels after update.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure you spent many pages earlier in this thread doing the exact opposite, arguing with @Scaff who has extensive real world experience, conducts driver training, works in the industry and has a background that requires knowledge of how the physics behind a cars behaviour works. You were pretty quick to dismiss his criticisms of the physics pre-patch from what I can recall.

Apologies if I'm confusing you with someone else though.

 

[Techlet]

For any one looking for an example of there being too much rear grip now on race cars, check out this clip. The link is time stamped but it's 2:31:20 - 2:32:10 if that doesn't work. Watch for about 50 seconds, it gets much worse at 2:31:56

If we're going to cherry pick examples, here you can see people are still binning their cars in this exact race and getting launched off curbs.

 

[Techlet]

.

 

[sejtur]

It's the same. What is different to you?

The things I notice are different:
More snappy lift off oversteer
More snappy out of corner on throttle oversteer, but the threshold to oversteer seems higher.

And the thing that is also different and makes it less fun for me:
Less nuanced fast corners, you just understeer off if you push the throttle, impossible to oversteer.

I can't believe you don't notice any difference. You must be a controller user.

 

[PirovacBoy]

After I woke up about an hour ago, I came back to this Thread to read the ongoing debate.
And you know what, it’s repeating itself.
The exact same Situation that we already had when GTS was released.
And even my own Experience is being the same as with GTS.
I was there from Day1 Release Day of GTS.
I was celebrating the Physics as others did too.
Many others were complaining.
Then PD swung their mighty Hammer for the first time to please the Complainers, which I fully understand.
GT Games are made for the masses.
GT generates a lot of Money.
GT is reliant on a huge Playerbase.

PD is stuck in a difficult Situation.
On one side they want to give us “their" Version of the Game.
I always loved and enjoyed the Release Day Physics of both, be it GTS or GT7.
On the other Side they are somewhat "forced“ to give in to the Masses, and make the Game more accessible to the Casual Players.

And same as with GTS, after the Physics Update, and there were more than just 1, I simply adapted.
I love the GT Series and all the Changes didn’t stop me from playing and appreciating it.

Same is going to happen with GT7.
I‘ll slowly forget about its early days Physics, and the newly and surely upcoming changes will become natural after a while.
It’s all a matter about being open for changes.
At first it’s a Shock, but after a while we adapt.
Maybe I’m just getting too old for all of this Stuff and maybe I’m just playing Racing Games for too long to appreciate the easy approach.
Same goes for Souls Games.
I simply adore the challenge.
And don’t get me wrong.
The new Physics aren’t bad.
Not at all.
They are good, I can already see myself getting hooked again.
Yesterday was just an eye opener Moment.
Nothing more or less.
It won’t stop me from enjoying my Hobby, definitely not 😅