Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Jeff Goji]

Well... still learning... I can clearly see that all my cars need to be revamped to fit the new model. What worries me is that... how can I trust the game anymore? What if they scramble the physics again in a month or so? I spend many hours tweaking the cars, for what?

Oh well...

They did this a few times to us in the GT5 and GT6 PS3 days and once in the GT-sport days.
They usually have one big release and that's it, unless they deem the update to be ground-breaking and then they reset every single score in the game and expect you to do it over again in the idea of "fairness", otherwise they leave well enough alone.
My personal opinion is that the current physics model is enough of a mish-mash of GT-sport and GT7 that it just plain works, this update to the physics was minor enough that they didn't deem it worthy to wipe-out any high scores, so obviously everything is golden in their eyes.

I don't see them regressing to a harder to drive physics model (backpedaling) and I don't see them softening it up more than this update based on past experience.
I think it's safe to say that they are good for a good long while.

 

[JDMKING13]

Man did a street test with the new 86 and BRZ and PD nailed it. From all the research and watching people drive them they handled just as their counterparts.. The BRZ handled in a mature manner while the GR86 was a tab bit loose in the rear and a little more playful!

 

[GTboyz]

Well, just had a long session with the 911 GT3 RS '16 on the Green Beastie with only ABS weak and sport mediums, since that seems to be the consensus for HP tires. It was rough. Anyone who says the Porsches have been tamed, any of them but the race cars, is a big fat fibber. Out of several tries and a couple dozen do overs, I had not one clean lap. Zero. I had to quit a few minutes ago because the frustration and nerves were making me ill, and I was making bad mistakes.

The record for that Porsche is 6:56.000. Leaving the track twice for 20 - 30 meters, I could only manage a 7:40.907. Ay caramba...

I used Sports Soft and the car felt great lol

 

[CarreraGT]

I've only driven the BMW M3 E46 and Ferrari F8 since the update but it's enough for me to gauge the improvements that have been made. As I mentioned earlier, the biggest problem with rear drive cars is how quickly they break traction and I feel like this issue has been rectified. I went over a second quicker around Willow Springs in the BMW because it felt more planted with a more progressive grip loss, allowing me to get a better feel for the car and gain more confidence in doing so. This was particularly noticeable through turn 7, 8 and 9 where I could get onto the throttle sooner and stay in it longer before the car broke lose, and when it did, it was easier to control. The F8 is still a challenge but it's less demanding than before with traction control turned off. Not perfect but a lot more enjoyable and rewarding.

Agreed. I was 2 seconds a lap faster around Autopolis in both the Carrera GT and Pagani Huayra first time round.

I was also stuck on the full lap challenge for the Le Mans circuit experience. After about 10 attempts I was still 0.3s off, purely due to the unpredictable snap oversteer through the last sector. First time out after the update, I cleared gold by 2 seconds.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Don't even know what the F8 is! Let alone driven it pre-patch to compare it to post-patch

Wait you genuinely don't know what a Ferrari F8 is? Anyway making a general statement about the physics when you've only driven GT3 cars isn't going to give you the clearest indication of the changes. Nor will it allow you to form an accurate conclusion.

 

[Firestone]

So I downloaded ACC for the PS5 to compare the R8 LMS Evo and I can honestly say that the cars feel very similar between games. GT3 cars do have tons of grip on throttle and don't squirm around. The ACC setup I had was the default safe setup with the TCS set to 3 or 4 and the ABS set to 5. I compared at Catalunya. Around most high speed corners and at sharp corner exits, I can basically floor it and the car understeers and lift off will allow the fronts to grip and regain turn in. It wasn't hard to drive at all. The GT7 R8 at 0 TCS in the game seems to be a TCS 3 or 4 in ACC. The only weird thing with GT7 in first gear at heavy throttle, it seems to be similar to traction off or 1 in ACC. Now I understand why David Perel said the physics are more accurate. In ACC I was even able to drive the car hard around corners with TCS set off.
So I take back what I said about the race cars and PD actually stepped in the right direction with this with it being more accurate.

Edit: Interesting to note that the TC in the cockpit view in GT is set to 5 if that has any bearing on how the car is set default to drive in the game.

 

[05XR8]

Drove my Touring car tuned ‘71 CSL at Spa and it’s a bit squirrely in the corners than before the update. Have to be much more gentle with throttle. This is fitted with RH. Now, I didn’t adjust the set up from what I already had. Not sure If I have to make another sheet or not, to undo the physics update.

 

[Tenacious D]

One more quick edit to say that there's no way in Hades I'm taking anything to the Nordschleife but highly tuned cars or racers.

Well, I'm a big fat liar.

Watching my replay from chase cam, I actually did a pretty credible job of my best lap. So, I decided to try it with sports softs as the car was whizzing around the Ring under bot control. In the middle of trying to adjust to the SS grip, I accidentally triggered my MFD and saw that TCS was on 2. I turned it off, and in the next turn promptly threw the car into a wall, and it wasn't much fun for several turns either. Set it to 1, and found a happy medium, with a best lap of 7:32.659.

Tomorrow I'll give race cars and my race tuned cars a look, but if they're well planted and capable in turns, I'm not going to complain. If PD does another update that's more challenging but more realistic, I'll manage to adjust.

 

[Ashthebash]

Wait you genuinely don't know what a Ferrari F8 is? Anyway making a general statement about the physics when you've only driven GT3 cars isn't going to give you the clearest indication of the changes. Nor will it allow you to form an accurate conclusion.

I know it's a Ferrari now you've told me! I have no reason to know. I don't search for new Ferraris, I don't watch car programs now that the idiotic trio no longer do Top Gear, I don't read car magazines, I don't Google car info, so I have zero reason to know what a Ferrari F8 is

My conclusion is of the cars that are going to be forming part of the online championships, I couldn't care less if Bedroom Billy is happy now he can drive with TCS off because he's got loads of rear end grip or that he doesn't crash now because the kerbs (the ones he really should be missing anyway) no longer destabilise his car. All I care about is how the Gr.3 and Gr.4 cars stack up and this physics update has killed the 'lairy' MRs in Gr.3 - one of which happened to be the car I've driven most - and at the same time made the FR cars ridiculously easy to put the power down early and far too forgiving. The differences just in how these two cars behaved pre and post patch is HUGE

I've seen people compare it to now being like GTS, that's harsh on GTS to be honest, GTS was never dumbed down this much

 

[MonoTonouS]

FFB are not physics, good and bad FFB are subjective.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I know it's a Ferrari now you've told me! I have no reason to know. I don't search for new Ferraris, I don't watch car programs now that the idiotic trio no longer do Top Gear, I don't read car magazines, I don't Google car info, so I have zero reason to know what a Ferrari F8 is

That's unusual.

 

[05XR8]

That's unusual.

My Wife is a car nut, but She couldn’t tell you what the latest car is, in terms of following what’s new. She does follow a guy that builds cars, but She doesn’t actively look stuff up. I asked, She doesn’t know what an F8 is.

 

[Amon]

Been testing a little the new phisics. Did some laps on Spa and Nurburging GP with Bmw M6 GT3, a stock Subaru 22b, a full tuned Evo VI Makinen edition on racing mediums and a stock '02 Viper.

Setups ( where applicable ) where made for the previous phisics.

Looks to me than there are 2 main differences. The first is more braking power / or more tire grip under braking. Being sport tires or racing slicks made no difference. The cars simply brake more.

The second is much more grip to the rear. This in particular brings new life to high powered stock RWD cars for people that likes to drive them without traction control. You have more grip everywhere. Corner exit under throttle, corner entry while trail braking, even high speed corners with constant throttle.

This however while solving one problems ( you can now drive that 800Hp modded Cobra with sport tires whohohohoh !!! ) ends up creating others.

You have to remake the setup for every racing car you have. The BMW G3 having been tuned for the old phisics now pushes everywhere. This can be done.

The 4wd street cars ( speaking of the 22b here ) have been somewhat being "ruined" handling wise. This is in my opinion not that good.

To cut the story short, looks to me that these new phisics changed something on every car in the game, while this change was needed on some kind of cars only.

This after 3 / 4 hours of driving. Things could change with time and practice of course

 

[Haitauer]

Havent tried the game yet after the update. If what is said here is true, PD has made a mistake. There was nothing wrong with the physics - the problem was in stock setups. Most of the "undrivable" cars like new mustang in the test were just fine after a minor suspension tune..

 

[Amon]

My Wife is a car nut, but She couldn’t tell you what the latest car is, in terms of following what’s new. She does follow a guy that builds cars, but She doesn’t actively look stuff up. I asked, She doesn’t know what an F8 is.

Well the F8 is the final evolution of the 458 Italia, really strange for a car enthusiast to know nothing about it to be honest.

 

[CarreraGT]

Havent tried the game yet after the update. If what is said here is true, PD has made a mistake. There was nothing wrong with the physics - the problem was in stock setups. Most of the "undrivable" cars like new mustang in the test were just fine after a minor suspension tune..

Not sure I agree with this. I didn't mind it before the update, but a) a stock car should not need re-setting up to be driveable, and b) cars with no power were too loose at the rear.

In other words, no Miata / 86 / BRZ can actually power oversteer (read: snap oversteer) the way they did in GT7 pre-update, as fun as it was.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Well the F8 is the final evolution of the 458 Italia, really strange for a car enthusiast to know nothing about it to be honest.

But there are also people who definitely don't like brands or are indifferent to them... which gives them e.g. Ferrari's latest "toys" are not known or don't care.

I e.g. I'm also not a big fan of Ferrari's.. I'm sorry, but that's how it is, I no longer have any connection to them (since Schumi stopped driving for Ferrari).
Therefore, the name F8 was only familiar to me after very careful consideration, which I once heard somewhere.

 

[05XR8]

Well the F8 is the final evolution of the 458 Italia, really strange for a car enthusiast to know nothing about it to be honest.

Not really. I’m sure some car enthusiasts don’t know about many different cars. Not just within the popular Ferrari brand. It’d be like car enthhusists that never knew about the WRX STI variants existed, before Gran Turismo. I didn’t know the F8 was the final evolution of the 458. I can see the resemblance in the canopy, but I never searched about it, before this game, to know that info.

There are some obscure cars I’ve not heard of, until someone posts about it. Yet, I’m still a car enthusiast. Knowing all about the latest cars isn’t the only way to be a car enthusiast. I won’t derail the thread any longer, but it shouldn’t be seen as unusual or strange.

 

[Goshin2568]

For any one looking for an example of there being too much rear grip now on race cars, check out this clip. The link is time stamped but it's 2:31:20 - 2:32:10 if that doesn't work. Watch for about 50 seconds, it gets much worse at 2:31:56

 

[DjeeDjee]

See this video of AMG GT3 on the ring. The car is perfectly flat and planted. He's not getting oversteer in 6th gear while going 60kph.

And here we go again. It was exactly my point yesterday mate.

So first, it's not the same car. We have the 2016 version of the AMG GT3 in GT7, you're showing the EVO from 2020.
Then, I never said the AMG GT3 was overteery in 6th at 60 kph.

But, the problem here is TC. You never race a GT3 car without TC IRL, these cars are designed to race with it so the pilots can set a certain amount of TC and ABS according to their preferences.
We don't use TC with the Gr.1, 2, 3 and 4 cars in Gran Turismo because it is poorly simulated. So obviously IRL, the car won't move on throttle because the TC prevents oversteer, but in GT7, before the update, the AMG was tricky on acceleration with TC OFF, which was acceptable with a middle-front big V8 and a lot of torque.

I will repeat what a lot of persons said here, the new update added too much rear-end grip. I mean, you can't flat out a GT3 with TC OFF and just understeer. Even with the poorest setup in the world, I don't buy it. Look at this 458 GT3 video where the guy floors it while having an oversteery moment and the car doesn't spin but just understeer and go straight. I don't buy it and people saying they like it say so because it's simply easier and no finesse is required anymore.

Once again, it will only bring more aggressive behaviors online (GTWS) and boring races (ON/OFF/ON/OFF...).

 

[DjeeDjee]

I saw screenshots on twitter earlier comparing LMP1 cars cornering speeds at the Porsche curves in different games and IRL, and in GT7 the LMP1 cars are cornering 40kph faster than iracing and almost 50kph faster than the world record lap IRL in an LMP1 car in the same corner. That's just absurd.

Have you tried the Le Mans Track Experience with the 908?

I did it before the update, it was barely driveable. Flat in Tertre Rouge, flat in the Porsche curves and Karting corner
All done with approximately 2 degrees of wheel input ^^

Just watch the demo lap, it makes a 3:14, more than 3 seconds faster than the Kobayashi's lap record. And PoDi told us about the realistic lap times in the keynote when they presented the game...

 

[Amon]

But there are also people who definitely don't like brands or are indifferent to them... which gives them e.g. Ferrari's latest "toys" are not known or don't care.

I e.g. I'm also not a big fan of Ferrari's.. I'm sorry, but that's how it is, I no longer have any connection to them (since Schumi stopped driving for Ferrari).
Therefore, the name F8 was only familiar to me after very careful consideration, which I once heard somewhere.

Being a car enthusiast is not a matter of hate or love for a certain manufacturer i guess.

You may not like Ferrari for your own motives but their past and present cars are certainly important from an automotive point of view, just to say.

 

[Amon]

Just watch the demo lap, it makes a 3:14, more than 3 seconds faster than the Kobayashi's lap record. And PoDi told us about the realistic lap times in the keynote when they presented the game...

A driving sim should always produce faster lap times than its real life counterpart, for obvious reasons.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Being a car enthusiast is not a matter of hate or love for a certain manufacturer i guess.

You may not like Ferrari for your own motives but their past and present cars are certainly important from an automotive point of view, just to say.

But you don't have to know all brands and their models including possible facelifts and evolutions.... If YOU see things differently and are an enthusiast... Then please clarify me about all models of the Eastern bloc from the years 1960 to let's say 1990 on incl. all changes.. and please do not visit Wikipedia or similar reference sites beforehand! Because they were cars too!

I hope you understand what I'm getting at.....

I don't like the "status" that Ferraris and their owners associate with... For this reason I am NOT interested in Ferraris... and therefore I am not familiar with their models.. And yet I like most cars!

 

[DjeeDjee]

A driving sim should always produce faster lap times than its real life counterpart, for obvious reasons.

Isn't it exagerated? 3 seconds? By driving with 2 fingers and going flat where it's clearly impossible IRL?

 

[Amon]

Imagine if they ever add the OG RUF Yellowbird. Tears will be wept, controllers will be broken...

TBH you can produce something really similar to a Yellow Bird tuning a 911 Turbo. I've done it, and with sport softs was really hard to drive before this patch. After the patch remains scary but you can drive it and have fun if you respect her enough.

 

[MarrGuitar]

And here we go again. It was exactly my point yesterday mate.

So first, it's not the same car. We have the 2016 version of the AMG GT3 in GT7, you're showing the EVO from 2020.
Then, I never said the AMG GT3 was overteery in 6th at 60 kph.

But, the problem here is TC. You never race a GT3 car without TC IRL, these cars are designed to race with it so the pilots can set a certain amount of TC and ABS according to their preferences.
We don't use TC with the Gr.1, 2, 3 and 4 cars in Gran Turismo because it is poorly simulated. So obviously IRL, the car won't move on throttle because the TC prevents oversteer, but in GT7, before the update, the AMG was tricky on acceleration with TC OFF, which was acceptable with a middle-front big V8 and a lot of torque.

I will repeat what a lot of persons said here, the new update added too much rear-end grip. I mean, you can't flat out a GT3 with TC OFF and just understeer. Even with the poorest setup in the world, I don't buy it. Look at this 458 GT3 video where the guy floors it while having an oversteery moment and the car doesn't spin but just understeer and go straight. I don't buy it and people saying they like it say so because it's simply easier and no finesse is required anymore.

Once again, it will only bring more aggressive behaviors online (GTWS) and boring races (ON/OFF/ON/OFF...).

How much do you think the TC is doing for these GT3 drivers? Watch this onboard of a AMG GT3. You can see on the dash when the TC is actually kicking in (it’s the blue square that flashes to the right of the gear indicator, there’s 3 smaller boxes and TC is in the middle of those). The driver is planting it quite a lot and the TC is often not even kicking in. Because the car has tonnes of grip. It’s mostly kicking in when the driver uses the kerbs. Or when he powers out of a slow corner in a low gear.

EDIT: you may have to watch in the YouTube app on highest quality to see the dash clearly



You are right though, GT3 cars are designed to be used with TC, but GT7 models TC very poorly so the fastest drivers don’t use it. It cuts way too much power. My point is that TC isn’t the thing giving these GT3 cars all their grip, they have lots of grip at the rear.

 

[Amon]

Isn't it exagerated? 3 seconds? By driving with 2 fingers and going flat where it's clearly impossible IRL?

How much you should be faster is really difficult to point out. You have different skills than the real pilot than posted that time. You have unlimited testing time, you have all the time in the world to make a setup, you don't risk your life.

Determining how much does this count on a laptime is impossible i guess.

The only thing that i'm sure about is that you should not be slower or on par.

 

[Amon]

But you don't have to know all brands and their models including possible facelifts and evolutions.... If YOU see things differently and are an enthusiast... Then please clarify me about all models of the Eastern bloc from the years 1960 to let's say 1990 on incl. all changes.. and please do not visit Wikipedia or similar reference sites beforehand! Because they were cars too!

I hope you understand what I'm getting at.....

I don't like the "status" that Ferraris and their owners associate with... For this reason I am NOT interested in Ferraris... and therefore I am not familiar with their models.. And yet I like most cars!

Ferrari is one of the most important brands, if not the one most important in car manifacturing, being production or racing.

That's it, liking them or not liking them is an entire different matter.

 

[danjama]

Physics for RWD cars was a bit off before... but now it's off again but in oposite direction.
What's more I have noticed that when playing on gamepad the car is countersteering by itself during a slide even when "steering asist" and all other driving assists are set to "OFF".

But cars do have a natural counter steer in real life. That's how drifting works.