Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[sejtur]

Don't know if anyone already posted about this, but yeah the physics are great now.

 

[Techlet]

That's a real "exploit" used by rally drivers. The physics are indeed great if it's able to simulate the effect.

If anything, it's an issue with track limits.

 

[LSFDRX]

Don't know if anyone already posted about this, but yeah the physics are great now.

Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, but this is 100% a check in the positive column for 7.

The fact that this "exploit" depends on modeling the inside edge of a tire/wheel, allowing that edge to come over a modeled inner curb edge, and for physics being to hold the tire/wheel edge over the curb edge speaks volumes to the depth at which GT7 is modeled.

There are a ton of variables here, and it's not an easy thing to do like some physics breaking cheat. It's a exploit that relies on real world principles, even though IRL one would likely blow a tire or break a wheel. I think this is a really cool example of how thorough the entire physics engine of GT7 is.

Now if they could just tweak all the other little things that are holding it back from perfection, that would be great.

 

[RavenR]

Don't know if anyone already posted about this, but yeah the physics are great now.

Just start suspending people for this tbh.

It reminds me of the Kerb exploit in GTA, where higher frame rate consoles/PCs benefitted massively from Kerb riding with more frames.

 

[graesand]

Maybe we will get banana peels and mushroom boosts in the next update

 

[Techlet]

Maybe we will get banana peels and mushroom boosts in the next update

We already have invisible standing water and NOS?

 

[graesand]

We already have invisible standing water and NOS?

Touché

 

[FerrariF40]

The REAL grinding simulator

 

[graesand]

The REAL grinding simulator

Turismo Hawk Pro Driving Skater 2

 

[Monkey Man]

It's a legit phenomenon.

It's not a track-limit issue either if two wheels remain well within the boundaries at all times.

 

[ScottPuss20]

As you can see, these cars are particularly challenging to drive. They still seem to suffer from that rear grip issue, especially the SLR. That car is an absolute dog with a heap of understeer and a sensitive rear end that breaks into wheelspin way too easily. It was a disaster compared the Carrera GT which felt a lot sharper and easier to manage on corner exit. Still hard though.

 

[Johnnn]

It's a legit phenomenon.

It's not a track-limit issue either if two wheels remain well within the boundaries at all times.

Curbs with much higher grip than tarmac? Where I can find those?

Internal info:

Kaz: "People don't like our physics, we need to add some rear grip."
dev: "Like adding wider tires to every car?"
Kaz: "Yes."
dev: "That would change every car in the game."
Kaz: "This is direct order!"
dev: "Yes, sir!"
Kaz: "One more thing, people don't like our curbs, they are too slippery, add some grip."
dev: "That would mean exploiting curbs for faster lap times."
Kaz: "This is direct order!"
dev: "Yes, sir!"
Kaz: "In the meantime I need to tune our light covers, they still need a lot of work."

 

[Monkey Man]

Curbs with much higher grip than tarmac? Where I can find those?

It's not the curbs that have the grip; they're the same as most others in this regard John.

It's the fact that the inside tyres are placed on the grass so only their inside walls make contact with the curbs. These curbs have steep vertical "inside" edges so the tires are literally pushing up against the curbs horizontally. Different scenario altogether.

 

[Johnnn]

It's not the curbs that have the grip; they're the same as most others in this regard John.

It's the fact that the inside tyres are placed on the grass so only their inside walls make contact with the curbs. These curbs have steep vertical "inside" edges so the tires are literally pushing up against the curbs horizontally. Different scenario altogether.

Oh, maybe, I didn't dig deep it yet. My friend sent me some video month ago how he improved lap time for few seconds with using curbs but it looked like he used normal curbs as kind of supergrip material. Grass stuff could be another thing maybe. It wasn't normal at all. Thing is I don't care because I don't use curbs that way and don't have time for online. It's fine by me but these fixes really look like very hotfixes.

 

[Gulyo]

GT7 physics are good for it’s audiance. I mean this is not a sim, this is driving simulator.
If i want drive a sim, i drive iracing, rf2 or acc.
Driving gt7 is absolutely good. I dont need more sim in this title.

 

[kilesa4568]

GT7 physics are good for it’s audiance. I mean this is not a sim, this is driving simulator.
If i want drive a sim, i drive iracing, rf2 or acc.
Driving gt7 is absolutely good. I dont need more sim in this title.

You might need to start calling it an ulator then.

 

[PacNW_GT_64]

GT7 physics are good for it’s audiance. I mean this is not a sim, this is driving simulator.
If i want drive a sim, i drive iracing, rf2 or acc.
Driving gt7 is absolutely good. I dont need more sim in this title.

I'm no expert but to me, GT7s physics lean a little more to the sim side than GTS did. It's still not a sim in the truest sense but the physics feel somewhat more realistic to me.

 

[s0cks]

Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, but this is 100% a check in the positive column for 7.

The fact that this "exploit" depends on modeling the inside edge of a tire/wheel, allowing that edge to come over a modeled inner curb edge, and for physics being to hold the tire/wheel edge over the curb edge speaks volumes to the depth at which GT7 is modeled.

There are a ton of variables here, and it's not an easy thing to do like some physics breaking cheat. It's a exploit that relies on real world principles, even though IRL one would likely blow a tire or break a wheel. I think this is a really cool example of how thorough the entire physics engine of GT7 is.

Now if they could just tweak all the other little things that are holding it back from perfection, that would be great.

Any footage of a real race car doing this on a track? I don't see how having half your wheels on grass and planting the throttle, while using the kerbs outside edge to "hold the wheels" is in any way realistic. For starters wouldn't the driven wheel on the grass have basically no grip? Secondly, how big is the edge of this curb that it can hold a powerful race car going full throttle?

The exploit needs fixing. I don't necessarily think it means the physics are ****, but wouldn't go as far as to say it's a check in the positive column.

 

[FPV MIC]

Any footage of a real race car doing this on a track? I don't see how having half your wheels on grass and planting the throttle, while using the kerbs outside edge to "hold the wheels" is in any way realistic. For starters wouldn't the driven wheel on the grass have basically no grip? Secondly, how big is the edge of this curb that it can hold a powerful race car going full throttle?

The exploit needs fixing. I don't necessarily think it means the physics are ****, but wouldn't go as far as to say it's a check in the positive column.

First off, I think it's modelled incorrectly in GT7 but in saying that, it is actually a real phenomena. It's normally done by only hooking the inside front wheel, and to do this the car is generally sliding. That's why it's fairly common practice on dirt or slippery conditions but not so much on grippy bitumen or fast long radius turns like in GT7.

I've seen it mainly in rallying but also in speedway on the very flat tracks by both cars and bikes (quite often with sidecars). It can also be done with both inside wheels but that's very rare, and it's only really effective under very low grip conditions.

An example of a kart doing it in the wet from the below excerpt and linked article:

6. Use the kerbs​

Kerbs can be used to help the kart around the corner in the wet. There are two main kerb riding techniques. The first is ‘hooking’ the inside wheels of the kart to pull it around the corner. This is most commonly used in low/medium speed corners. The aim is to drop your inside front wheel inside the kerb and allow it to pull the kart around. You will be able to feel the increase in grip if you do it correctly.

From here:

How to become a wet weather ace on the kart track

They say the greatest drivers are the ones who are good in the wet. Improve your chances of becoming a rain Meister with our guide.

www.redbull.com

So yeah, my take is that it should be fixed and I think it could be done by simply lowering the height of the affected inside curbs.

 

[Techlet]

Any footage of a real race car doing this on a track?

 

[s0cks]

video

Doesn't look the same. They're dipping their wheels into the gutter, not using a kerb to hook the inside of the tyre against. The kart example above is better, but that's more expected from a kart - wheels are small, vehicle is light. Also, makes more sense what FPV MIC said in terms of only hooking the front wheel in a slide.

It doesn't seem to me like GT7 is mimicking this real life technique. It looks kinda similar but not the same.

 

[LSFDRX]

Any footage of a real race car doing this on a track? I don't see how having half your wheels on grass and planting the throttle, while using the kerbs outside edge to "hold the wheels" is in any way realistic. For starters wouldn't the driven wheel on the grass have basically no grip? Secondly, how big is the edge of this curb that it can hold a powerful race car going full throttle?

The exploit needs fixing. I don't necessarily think it means the physics are ****, but wouldn't go as far as to say it's a check in the positive column.

Like I said in my post, IRL this would likely lead to a broken wheel or shredded tire.

But my point still stands, the fact that the curb and inner wheels are modeled thoroughly enough to "lock" over each other is an impressive part of the physics model.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, but this is 100% a check in the positive column for 7.

The fact that this "exploit" depends on modeling the inside edge of a tire/wheel, allowing that edge to come over a modeled inner curb edge, and for physics being to hold the tire/wheel edge over the curb edge speaks volumes to the depth at which GT7 is modeled.

There are a ton of variables here, and it's not an easy thing to do like some physics breaking cheat. It's a exploit that relies on real world principles, even though IRL one would likely blow a tire or break a wheel. I think this is a really cool example of how thorough the entire physics engine of GT7 is.

Now if they could just tweak all the other little things that are holding it back from perfection, that would be great.

Technically, it's the collision on the inside of the tire that does this, not the modelling. The meshes are separate for efficiency.

This collision is part of the reason the cars behave a little strange at low ride heights. The collision mesh of the tire hits the collision mesh of the body.

But yes...you are correct

 

[Voodoovaj]

When this comes up, I am always curious on what constitutes "real".

As in, how many are comparing GT to their real life track day experience and how many are comparing to what they play in other games.

Imho, based on track day time, the physics are pretty good. Granted, I have never done a trackday using a controller, but still.

I vote for inproved penalty system before altered physics.

 

[O604]

To me that particular kurb riding in the video is alot like Spohy abusing the track limits. Both are difficult to perform and risky. At my level I see it more as stunt driving than a race tactic.

I wouldn't attempt it myself. I wouldn't encourage anyone to do it. But it's the sort of move a real driver attempts in once a career highlight moments. But in GT players get so comfortable they can do it every lap.

 

[Voodoovaj]

To me that particular kurb riding in the video is alot like Spohy abusing the track limits. Both are difficult to perform and risky. At my level I see it more as stunt driving than a race tactic.

I wouldn't attempt it myself. I wouldn't encourage anyone to do it. But it's the sort of move a real driver attempts in once a career highlight moments. But in GT players get so comfortable they can do it every lap.

It's an easy enough fix. The tires are all procedural, so put a different collision material on the inside of tires that has more wear than the tread. When someone hooks the curb, it will add more tire wear and thereby offset the momentary advantage with a race long detriment.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Just like the Daytona bus stop glitch. It’s not used in race that much but it completely skews the qualifying times

 

[O604]

It's an easy enough fix. The tires are all proslcedural, so put a different collision material on the inside of tires that has more wear than the tread. When someone hooks the curb, it will add more tire wear and thereby offset the momentary advantage with a race long detriment.

I've slipped enough on the normal part of the kerbs to know there's a risk when attempting moves like that. A strong wind is enough to throw the car off.

 

[Galvston]

Just playing this game and modded assetto corsa back to back… at Laguna Seca, same cars and same electronics configurations. It was very surprisingly similar, I feel like PD have done a fine job with the physics.

I compared cars like C7, E92, Miata, WRX 99, the ktm and the SLS, all of them shared characteristics between the physics engines… all the cars on GT had abs on weak or no abs, I really prefer how it brakes on weak, it’s more realistic than default.

Hope they keep improving

 

[HyperSpeeder]

As you can see, these cars are particularly challenging to drive. They still seem to suffer from that rear grip issue, especially the SLR. That car is an absolute dog with a heap of understeer and a sensitive rear end that breaks into wheelspin way too easily. It was a disaster compared the Carrera GT which felt a lot sharper and easier to manage on corner exit. Still hard though.

In the SLR you have 626 bhp sent by a big supercharged V8 to the rear wheels. Nuff said.

The Carrera GT is notorious for its unfriendliness, which was arguably what killed Paul Walker. Its lap record on the Nürburgring was clocked by none other than the legendary Walter Röhrl, who knew a thing or two about handling difficult cars.