Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT

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    203
  • Poll closed .
Nothing to do with the previous topic : anyone have seen tires deformation like it was on GTS ? I tried to catch this (if it's present) but for now it's a fail.
 
Honestly. I think GT needs a new engine entirely. The performance is NOT stable during peak demand and the physics model is just a modified GT5 system.

The A.I. also should be scrapped. They are trash and get the benefits of all the electronic assistance they can get. Nothing believable about them.

I love GT, but it's time for it to get with the program.
 
WanganDream
My friend said that there might not be such a change, but after the 1.17 update, I seem to be more prone to strange understeer in situations where the front tires are loaded.

I'm assuming that perhaps there was some change in the simulation of interference with the fenders, or in the steering angle compensation during gamepad play, but in situations where the front is loaded, the steering is almost impossible to turn regardless of speed, and releasing the brakes does not change this situation.
Also troubling is that this symptom can occur suddenly while cornering, and a car that was turning in the proper line at turn-in will suddenly steer back and the understeer I mentioned earlier will occur halfway through the corner.

I believe that a change in physics is causing this understeer, as I have not changed my car settings or driving style before and after the update, but I had a friend of mine drive a car with the same settings and he did not see any of these changes.

Incidentally, this is all happening with the PS4 controller, but since all of these situations occur under heavy loads on the front tires, it is unlikely that it is a controller failure.
And oddly enough, this phenomenon also occurs on cars like the 32 Ford, which has no front fenders...meaning there should be no interference with the front fenders.
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Man, I thought I was goung crazy today. First day trying to beat my crap 1:56:4XX at Nurbugrging GP post 1.17 and I was getting more understeer than ever, and yes, suddenly mid-corner, off the throttle. It's just ridiculous how you can transition from understeer to oversteer in the same car, in the same corner, worse than Alonso 2014 F1 Ferrari. It's simply disgusting. The higher the speed the less the steering angle, you can see while accelerating how the front wheels straighten despite you holding max angle.
It's this game's way of simulating tyre load, instead of dragging the tyres when too much steering is applied, they simply don't apply enough angle to begin with. Simplistic PS4 physics, I'm sure the PS5 can handle more than this junk.
 
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Gran_Turismo
Honestly. I think GT needs a new engine entirely. The performance is NOT stable during peak demand and the physics model is just a modified GT5 system.

The A.I. also should be scrapped. They are trash and get the benefits of all the electronic assistance they can get. Nothing believable about them.

I love GT, but it's time for it to get with the program.
Click to expand...
lol what - performance is great on ps5
 
MicVic10
Try a standing start 20 cars at Lake Maggiore and tear your eyeballs out. Or Daytona, or the left hander at Trial Mountain before the tunnel, or Brand Central UI, or World Circuits UI... I could go on forever.
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lack of discernment. Brand Central UI and World Circuits UI run at 30fps, by choice, not by problematic performance.

a 20 car grid may cause performance problems - that's because the game on ps5 has the cars at a great level of detail with seemingly no additional optimization, at full native 4K. it has common problems, ones you see on other games that run native res without drs
 
I'm not sure if this is physics or FFB related or both.
After trying the daily race A and being way off the top times I thought I would try a online tune. (I ended up in the top 100 with the tune) The tune was for the dodge viper gts and if nothing else highlighted the absolute mess the PP system is in.
The tune was ridiculous! To the point where you basically made the suspension settings as bad as you can then give it maximum power. You end up with 450pp for a 500pp category. 900+bhp, SH tyres.
It was actually quite fun trying to tame the beast. The thing that immediately stood out was the FFB (T-GT2) was so much more alive. The weight transfer and body roll feedback was fantastic, curb feel was great and the detail in the FFB was the best I have experienced in GT7.
This got me thinking, are the physics and FFB better than what they seem? Or is the translation of the physics into FFB just not strong enough. It is like the cars behave too well and that is letting down the great physics and FFB that is in a way hidden within.
 
Cyber_stig_77
snip
The thing that immediately stood out was the FFB (T-GT2) was so much more alive. The weight transfer and body roll feedback was fantastic, curb feel was great and the detail in the FFB was the best I have experienced in GT7.
This got me thinking, are the physics and FFB better than what they seem? Or is the translation of the physics into FFB just not strong enough. It is like the cars behave too well and that is letting down the great physics and FFB that is in a way hidden within.
Click to expand...
That’s an interesting point. I’ve noticed that I get better FFB with different cats or different tracks. Sometimes same car and same track and f I’m driving under different conditions. For instance, I was doing quali laps for Race C yesterday in the 911 and the FFB was different than during the race. Obviously the fuel load matters and can account for the difference, and tire wear. But some cars I don’t feel a difference at all.

This is purely anecdotal evidence, but I wonder if you might be right. It could be that the physics is better suited for road cars and goes flat with race cars, or the FFB, or both.
 
Td04
PS: again, what sucks a lot on gt7 Is the force feedback. I really hate It now that i switched from g923 to t300rs. I don't have fun anymore with the game cause the ffb. I really can't accept that the game countersteer itself the wheel even with countersteering assist off. Even effects on understeer are horribles (wtf Is that vibration).
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Indeed. And a DD wheel is wasted on GT7. ACC on PS5 is somewhat better, at least it's not clipping in corners.

Try RaceRoom on PC for reference FFB. I'm sticking to it mainly because of physics and FFB.
 
Bullwinkle
This is purely anecdotal evidence, but I wonder if you might be right. It could be that the physics is better suited for road cars and goes flat with race cars, or the FFB, or both.
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Because faster cars lead to greater loads, which in the case of GT7, and somewhat less in GTS, leads to clipping in corners. In other games, you lower FFB gain to avoid this, but in GTS/GT7 it's not possible - even with max torque 1 it clips in the same way as with 5.

Slow road cars don't have clipping in corners in GT7.

It's amazing they don't fix this. There can't be more than one employee working on this, like 20% of his time.
 
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HugoTwoWheels
Because faster cars lead to greater loads, which in the case of GT7, and somewhat less in GTS, leads to clipping in corners. In other games, you lower FFB gain to avoid this, but in GTS/GT7 it's not possible - even with max torque 1 it clips in the same way as with 5.

Slow road cars don't have clipping in corners in GT7.

It's amazing they don't fix this. There can't be more than one employee working on this, like 20% of his time.
Click to expand...
I think I had exactly one week between updates a couple of months ago where the FFB was just brilliant. Then they started fiddling with things for particular wheels, and then had the "safety" issue, and then a reset, and I have no idea where we are at this point. I get the feeling that their one employee is spending 20% of his time on thirty different problems for each update (the other 80% is obviously making sure the break calipers are the right color), so it may be 5 more months before we get any completely 100% improvement in anything! That poor guy must be tired by now . . .
 
HugoTwoWheels
Because faster cars lead to greater loads, which in the case of GT7, and somewhat less in GTS, leads to clipping in corners. In other games, you lower FFB gain to avoid this, but in GTS/GT7 it's not possible - even with max torque 1 it clips in the same way as with 5.

Slow road cars don't have clipping in corners in GT7.

It's amazing they don't fix this. There can't be more than one employee working on this, like 20% of his time.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about that Tbh. In reference to my previous post, when using the "broken'" tune in the viper I found that the FFB force was much stronger overall with no noticeable clipping. This is the thing that doesn't make sense. You would think that a properly setup race car on soft tyres would generate more grip and this would translate to stronger FFB but I found the FFB on SH tyres to be much higher peak torque and lighter minimums.
I would strongly suggest trying the tune. You can find a link to the video of it in the daily races thread.
 
Cyber_stig_77
I'm not sure about that Tbh. In reference to my previous post, when using the "broken'" tune in the viper I found that the FFB force was much stronger overall with no noticeable clipping. This is the thing that doesn't make sense. You would think that a properly setup race car on soft tyres would generate more grip and this would translate to stronger FFB but I found the FFB on SH tyres to be much higher peak torque and lighter minimums.
I would strongly suggest trying the tune. You can find a link to the video of it in the daily races thread.
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It does sound weird... I'd try if I hadn't sold both my PS5 and GT7 the day after trying RaceRoom.

I still find this topic fascinating though, how PD can devote such a small share of available resources to physics/ffb. It can't be that impossible to achieve when companies with less than a tenth of PD's resources do it 1000 times better.

The graphics in GT7 are top notch however. Not much to debate there. I guess that's where resources go, as well as all the typical "game stuff".
 
After having a couple of poor rounds in my GT Sport league in the sprint championship where setup is open, I decided to try and do some research into what makes the suspension settings on both Sport and GT7 tick, particularly as the Natural Frequency figure isn't one that is often found elsewhere in racing games (although I understand it's quite a common metric in the real world).

It took me a while but I had a bit of a revelatory moment when trying to find a way to convert some of my Coach Dave setups for the Audi R8 LMS to GT7 as a comparison (and also looking at the AC version of the 911 RSR). Natural Frequency and the relation to spring rates as we understand them in other games is dependent on the weight on the axle itself (hopefully for those already more clued up about this stuff this doesn't sound too silly that I've learned this and find it amazing), so a car might have Natural Frequency figures at front and rear of let's say 3, but depending on the weight distribution that figure will actually mean the springs are softer or stiffer at one end of the car.

Using the trusty https://percentagecalculator.net/ and then https://amesweb.info/Vibration/spring-frequency-calculator.aspx as a way of converting newton meters into hertz, I've kind of transformed my perspective on setups. I worked out the figures for the 911 RSR based on Assetto Corsa setups and seeing what the spring rates were there, converted them to GT hz-spec, and along with the other setup tweaks I'm accustomed to, transformed the car. My previous setup was only capable of 1.46 laps at Circuit de Catalunya... with the more 'scientific' suspension setting and then more tweaks surrounding it, I took 2.5 seconds off the laptime (you might say yeah well the original setup was obviously bad, and I agree!).

I've now been going through all my regularly used cars to try and use the same method. It's easier for GT3 cars where I have a good database of realistic setups from Coach Dave for ACC and other sources too. It has transformed the 911 and R8 LMS for me though into much easier, and much more realistic feeling, cars to drive.
 
danardif1
After having a couple of poor rounds in my GT Sport league in the sprint championship where setup is open, I decided to try and do some research into what makes the suspension settings on both Sport and GT7 tick, particularly as the Natural Frequency figure isn't one that is often found elsewhere in racing games (although I understand it's quite a common metric in the real world).

It took me a while but I had a bit of a revelatory moment when trying to find a way to convert some of my Coach Dave setups for the Audi R8 LMS to GT7 as a comparison (and also looking at the AC version of the 911 RSR). Natural Frequency and the relation to spring rates as we understand them in other games is dependent on the weight on the axle itself (hopefully for those already more clued up about this stuff this doesn't sound too silly that I've learned this and find it amazing), so a car might have Natural Frequency figures at front and rear of let's say 3, but depending on the weight distribution that figure will actually mean the springs are softer or stiffer at one end of the car.

Using the trusty https://percentagecalculator.net/ and then https://amesweb.info/Vibration/spring-frequency-calculator.aspx as a way of converting newton meters into hertz, I've kind of transformed my perspective on setups. I worked out the figures for the 911 RSR based on Assetto Corsa setups and seeing what the spring rates were there, converted them to GT hz-spec, and along with the other setup tweaks I'm accustomed to, transformed the car. My previous setup was only capable of 1.46 laps at Circuit de Catalunya... with the more 'scientific' suspension setting and then more tweaks surrounding it, I took 2.5 seconds off the laptime (you might say yeah well the original setup was obviously bad, and I agree!).

I've now been going through all my regularly used cars to try and use the same method. It's easier for GT3 cars where I have a good database of realistic setups from Coach Dave for ACC and other sources too. It has transformed the 911 and R8 LMS for me though into much easier, and much more realistic feeling, cars to drive.
Click to expand...
Care to share the settings? I wanna compare them before vs after..
 
It's a secret ;)

I'll get a screengrab of the Porsche one when I'm next on the game. I don't think there's some magic bullet per se, but once I'd worked out what the Natural Frequency figure translated to in newton meters plus the car weight factor, working out realistic suspension settings was far easier and made for a much better drive!
 
danardif1
It's a secret ;)

I'll get a screengrab of the Porsche one when I'm next on the game. I don't think there's some magic bullet per se, but once I'd worked out what the Natural Frequency figure translated to in newton meters plus the car weight factor, working out realistic suspension settings was far easier and made for a much better drive!
Click to expand...
This could be a game changer for many of us!
 
I have also this steering locking problem. Whit stang 350 and engine swapped beetle. Both lost them steering. If i turn the stick nothing happen first. Then later tires turn. Hard to drive if u lost control. Mustang had race hard and turbo charger. Other stock.
 
opelman
I have also this steering locking problem. Whit stang 350 and engine swapped beetle. Both lost them steering. If i turn the stick nothing happen first. Then later tires turn. Hard to drive if u lost control. Mustang had race hard and turbo charger. Other stock.
Click to expand...
The most common solution for this problem: have you checked to make sure the front end is high enough to allow the wheels to turn?
 
AlexWilmot
Wait what do you mean?

The problem is the the front end is too low so the wheels re hitting the front fenders when trying to turn in, just like real life if you lower the car too much?
Click to expand...

Ah yes, i just figured that the adjustable suspension sold specifically for each car in the game, which has set values for min/max height per car basis, wouldnt interfere with steering, like in past GT titles.

Guess its just a real simulation thing then.

Although, im pretty sure rubbing of the wheel arches would occur before obstruding the turning mechanism irl. Also theres that very distinct sound upon rubbing irl, like a warning you have to widen the arches or go higher.

Would be cool if they put that rubbing sound in the simulation, so people know why it wont steer. Havent read the apex understeer tuning guide, or the GT manual, do they go into detail as tp why, when and how lowering of the car is going to hamper steering?
 
Oh, front ride height you say? Here you go.

gxmXsrU.png


Daily race 500PP. This is just ridiculous. This lowers the PP value allowing one to upgrade power of the car making it much faster than normally. Tried it for myself, and ironically it reduced lateral weight transfer making car handle better and more stable ... Physics don't exist in this game.
 
andryush
Oh, front ride height you say? Here you go.

gxmXsrU.png


Daily race 500PP. This is just ridiculous. This lowers the PP value allowing one to upgrade power of the car making it much faster than normally. Tried it for myself, and ironically it reduced lateral weight transfer making car handle better and more stable ... Physics don't exist in this game.
Click to expand...

They do exist (the physics), theyre just from another planet..
 
danardif1
It's a secret ;)

I'll get a screengrab of the Porsche one when I'm next on the game. I don't think there's some magic bullet per se, but once I'd worked out what the Natural Frequency figure translated to in newton meters plus the car weight factor, working out realistic suspension settings was far easier and made for a much better drive!
Click to expand...
where you at bruh tryna get that physics up... please share it with the brothers
 

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