- 212
- Belgium
Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,343 comments
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- 529
- Oregon
- ILLEAGLE_34
It’s because they are FWD. LOL I’m just j/k. But in my opinion when it comes to a video game they have pretty much made FWD cars as much fun(😜) as in real life. 🍻
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,613
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Tell me you've not driven a good FWD car without telling me you've not driven a good FWD car.
GT7's FWD physics are a mess, failing to correctly model FWD lift-off oversteer and the behaviour of a good FWD LSD.
I own the fastback version of the I30n and opted for it over a number of RWD cars, the reason why? Because it actually drives better than they did!
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- 212
- Belgium
FR and MR are better, but also FF can be fun. I remember driving a tuned VW Golf I GTI with a Limitied Slip Differential. The steering wheel was reacting on every change in grip on the road, it was impressive and a handfull.
Driving a FF in GT7 is less lively then GT6. Even my 100 HP real life Golf IV variant TDI is more entertaining then every FF in GT7.
Scaff
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- ScaffUK
I would take most FWD cars with an LSD over most RWD cars without an LSD (and some with) any day of the week.
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- 832
- Serbia
- SR_Vule
I suppose that someone already mentioned this, I didn't have the time to read 164 pages... But man, are these barriers made out of some space-infinitystone magnets? Even the slightest touch just pulls you in just to make you spin. And if you aquaplane and lose control, hit the barrier just a tad, it will make you spin for at least 5-6 times, and always leave you facing the wrong way. Nice 
- 1,538
- NRW - GT
Scaff
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- He/Him
- ScaffUK
A world of difference exists between a purely electronic system and a mechanical one, or better still an electronically controlled mechanical one.Unfortunately, my Cupra only has an electronic differential lock, but it would probably be just as hopelessly overwhelmed with a mechanical one. There is too much power (torque) on the front wheels, with too much weight at the same time. I would much rather have an FR or AWD.
Drive an I30n, RS Clio or Megane, or even and old ITR and it's night and day.
- 1,538
- NRW - GT
I believe you immediately and I know it too... but it was the case that I was looking for a special car for my everyday life at the best possible price... And the Cupra (ST) just fitted better. However, I very rarely use it for sports, partly because the costs for these pleasures have increased so much that it is not worth it to me.
- 444
- Sweden
If RaceRoom resembles reality, which I believe it does infinitely more than GT7, you should all just try to learn from @Scaff.
The FWD race cars are from a different planet than those in GT7. They are so agile and easy to to slip slightly and oversteer into corners. Properly maneuvered they aren't the dull boats they are in GT7. You can even drift them like you can see in some YouTube videos of real racing.
And no, they don't drive anything at all like my everyday Toyota Corolla - that would be lethal in untrained hands on public roads.
Actually, I find them harder to drive properly than any of the faster FR/MR cars I've tried. It's simply a technique I haven't practiced enough yet. I've also crashed most in FWD by far by oversteering and spinning, always with a smile on my face because I know exactly what I did wrong and could feel it.
Speaking of fast FR/MR cars, they are "easier" in RaceRoom, since you can feel what's going on in detail, the grip loss is gradual, and you feel like you're in control. No surprises mid corner. That ******** downshifting from GTS/GT7 for rotation isn't needed, and you can oversteer slightly out of corners by applying just a bit more throttle (but if it grips you're understeering).
Just comparing for reference points.
The FWD race cars are from a different planet than those in GT7. They are so agile and easy to to slip slightly and oversteer into corners. Properly maneuvered they aren't the dull boats they are in GT7. You can even drift them like you can see in some YouTube videos of real racing.
And no, they don't drive anything at all like my everyday Toyota Corolla - that would be lethal in untrained hands on public roads.
Actually, I find them harder to drive properly than any of the faster FR/MR cars I've tried. It's simply a technique I haven't practiced enough yet. I've also crashed most in FWD by far by oversteering and spinning, always with a smile on my face because I know exactly what I did wrong and could feel it.
Speaking of fast FR/MR cars, they are "easier" in RaceRoom, since you can feel what's going on in detail, the grip loss is gradual, and you feel like you're in control. No surprises mid corner. That ******** downshifting from GTS/GT7 for rotation isn't needed, and you can oversteer slightly out of corners by applying just a bit more throttle (but if it grips you're understeering).
Just comparing for reference points.
- 2,134
- Sunderland
I can't comment on the LSD side of things, but I own a F56 Mini Cooper S and an Audi A3 3.2 quattro (FWD until it slips) and I feel like GT has pretty good lift-off oversteer, but oddly enough it seems to depend on the car.
I can get some pretty hefty lift-off pivot in the Mini in situations like changing gears on a curved slip road, but the R53 Cooper S in game stays planted through corners doing the same. On the other hand, GT7's TT 3.2 Quattro has hefty lift-off oversteer pretty much everywhere, which matches my experience in that the old A3 feels more eager to lose its back end than the Mini. Overall I'd say that some FWD (or front-biased AWD) cars behave pretty well, but not some of the ones you would expect.
- 697
- Northants
I agree with the comments about the FF cars. From day one I've felt that they were completely wrong in GT7, the only oversteer you seem to be able to get is at high speed due to running low rear downforce. Honestly they feel just like the FF cars do in Wreckfest, which is also completely wrong in it's behaviour off the throttle. I find it odd that Race 07, which is now 15 years old does a far better job of simulating FF race cars with all the limitations it had back then.
This problem does extend beyond FF cars though as the lift off oversteer seems to be completely based on the weight distribution of the car, just try it for yourself with the ballast. I find it very odd that I can make a setup with a lot of rake, rear toe out, loads of rear camber, no coast diff lock and still get basically no rotation off throttle in certain cars, just because they have a bit more weight at the front.
One other area that GT7 lacks is that we cant set tyre pressures which can make a huge difference, especially in FF cars. Literally the most basic of setup changes you can make and yet it's never existed in GT.
This problem does extend beyond FF cars though as the lift off oversteer seems to be completely based on the weight distribution of the car, just try it for yourself with the ballast. I find it very odd that I can make a setup with a lot of rake, rear toe out, loads of rear camber, no coast diff lock and still get basically no rotation off throttle in certain cars, just because they have a bit more weight at the front.
One other area that GT7 lacks is that we cant set tyre pressures which can make a huge difference, especially in FF cars. Literally the most basic of setup changes you can make and yet it's never existed in GT.
- 1,322
- United Kingdom
- rodgers1
Not sure what’s happened since the new update the other day but I’m struggling a bit under braking.
Ive restarted the game and just working my way through licenses, mission and the early cafe menus but all the cars now seem to be suffering from bad oversteer. As soon as I brake and then start to turn into a corner I either drift or end up losing the back end and spinning. TC and other assists are the same as before.
Ive restarted the game and just working my way through licenses, mission and the early cafe menus but all the cars now seem to be suffering from bad oversteer. As soon as I brake and then start to turn into a corner I either drift or end up losing the back end and spinning. TC and other assists are the same as before.
- 65
- United States
Guys - in your opinion does GT7 physics feel more like Forza?
So...after reading all these complains about ff cars on gt7 i just went back to it to try some of them i know really good in real life too ( Alfa Mito, Abarth 500) and i can compare too with Ac and gt6..
Ac was my first try,and as i remember, lift off oversteer It Is there just slighty more than gt6(where Is weak,but better than gt5). Car is quite much flat,lazy and don't react in a credibile way to weight transfer and inertia, expeccially when i start to brake at high speed. Here people complains about the car on gt7 don't "correct" the front after lift off the throttle,but in my opinion this is what happens more on Ac and gt6.
Gt6 Is Just the same but worst ( even if i think was good for a PS3)
Now gt7...what can i Say? I really can't understand if this forum and thread Is full of trolls or haters,really. Sorry if i am saying this but... lift off oversteer Is totally there, weight transfer under braking and throttle are miles ahead better, and you can feel how more chassis lose balance. I can define it more alive.
I keep stock setups,and i belive that gt7 it is not good at all when we talking about setups tuning... But physics engine is good,i really don't get what people are complaining in these lastest post.
What sucks a lot on gt7,the worst of the 3 games by far, Is force feedback
Ac was my first try,and as i remember, lift off oversteer It Is there just slighty more than gt6(where Is weak,but better than gt5). Car is quite much flat,lazy and don't react in a credibile way to weight transfer and inertia, expeccially when i start to brake at high speed. Here people complains about the car on gt7 don't "correct" the front after lift off the throttle,but in my opinion this is what happens more on Ac and gt6.
Gt6 Is Just the same but worst ( even if i think was good for a PS3)
Now gt7...what can i Say? I really can't understand if this forum and thread Is full of trolls or haters,really. Sorry if i am saying this but... lift off oversteer Is totally there, weight transfer under braking and throttle are miles ahead better, and you can feel how more chassis lose balance. I can define it more alive.
I keep stock setups,and i belive that gt7 it is not good at all when we talking about setups tuning... But physics engine is good,i really don't get what people are complaining in these lastest post.
What sucks a lot on gt7,the worst of the 3 games by far, Is force feedback
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- 529
- Oregon
- ILLEAGLE_34
- 16,401
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
So I've driven quite a few cars on Watkins Glen and I've come to the conclusion that the "road" tyres (comfort and sport) have a much more consistent grip curve than the racing tyres. I was driving the LaFerrari last night and I was pleasantly surprised by the way it handled. I thought it would be an uncontrollable mess but it wasn't - it actually handled well and I could recover slides without too much trouble, unlike the Audi R8 LMS Evo. As I've said before a lot of the mid-engined GT3 cars are on a knife-edge and especially prone to snap oversteer, but I feel like the tyre model is to blame. Here's what I suspect the problem is: there is one basic tyre model with grip multipliers being added the higher up you go in the tyre range. Things start to get weird when this methodology is applied to high-grip race tyres. You may get increased grip but that also increases the steering sensitivity to the point where making the slightest correction can prove deadly if you aren't paying attention. You shouldn't get snap understeer in a GT3 car and that's where the tyre model falls short. Racing tyres may be more susceptible to changes in slip angle but they won't suddenly lose grip in an instant, as Assetto Corsa has proved to me many times. However cars like the Mercedes CLK-LM, McLaren F1 GTR Longtail, Toyota GR010, Porsche 919 and Sauber C9 don't seem to suffer from this issue as much, probably because they have more aero and mechanical grip. It hides the shortcomings of the tyre model.
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- 1
- United States
Race slicks due tend to be more 'peaky' in terms of grip and if the optimal slip angle is exceeded it feels like the grip is a sudden loss - it may not be 100% accurate but we also don't have that seat of the pants feeling as in real life.
You make a great point regarding aero, that will definitely mask tire model deficiencies (and driving deficiencies too! Lol)
- 738
- United States
Yeah, we're all in here as "haters" and "trolls" talking about the REALITY and the FACTS that FWD cars DO NOT rotate in the way they should. We are people that love and enjoy the game... we're not here mindlessly bashing it for no reason.
Stock, tuned, comfort, sport, or race tires, there is minimal, and sometimes zero lift-off oversteer in FWD cars. Scandinavian flicking, loading the fronts and transferring weight, stiffening the rear sway, even running a notch harder tire on the rear, there is NO WAY you can turn a FWD car in in GT7 off-throttle and it come all the way around on you. Ever. I'd like to see you do it.
In real life, this happens, especially so on stiffer setups that allow for less roll. You should be able to lift, allow rotation, and use throttle to straighten out or pull through the corner. This DOESN'T HAPPEN in GT7. The cars in game remain fairly balanced under braking or bleed into understeer (if not crazy tuned to favor rear bias), understeer when loaded, and oversteer on throttle (even when planted in a straight line, absolutely bonkers and unrealistic)... this not the way pretty much any FWD car operates in the real world.
I'd advise you that when people who clearly have experience with this game and driving and general all agree on the same point you shouldn't approach them as trolls and haters if you don't want them to take offense to what you're saying or even believe you know what you're talking about.
Also, I'd love to see your proof of lift-off oversteer if you're so sure that it's realistic... in a stock car as you said. Turn in, lift off, don't correct, and see if the car comes around on you.
I won't hold my breath.
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GT7 physics are all over the place. Street cars are undriveable stock, and putting racing tyres on them make them feel weird, floaty.
Every car understeers like a dog, especially race cars, it's like there's no weight on the front wheels or not enough steering lock.
Power oversteer feels weird and sudden, fishtailing is very hard to catch, controller motion is super filtered, I hold maximum steering through a hairpin and I see the front wheels go back and forth between full lock and 3/4 of the way, this probably being the reason every car understeers like a pig.
Every car understeers like a dog, especially race cars, it's like there's no weight on the front wheels or not enough steering lock.
Power oversteer feels weird and sudden, fishtailing is very hard to catch, controller motion is super filtered, I hold maximum steering through a hairpin and I see the front wheels go back and forth between full lock and 3/4 of the way, this probably being the reason every car understeers like a pig.
What amount of lift off oversteer do you expect from the game? Cause here a guy said that on GT 6 there was more lift off oversteer and this isn't true at all... Same for AC.
If i try these games, One after One ,and what i see Is clearly the opposite, where gt7 have most lift off oversteer,and cars are a lot less planted under braking,what should i think? That the posts i read here are serious?
Gt7 is not be the best sim in the world ,but if i read that gt6 has a better physics with more lift off oversteer on FF cars, that Is a troll post.
- 1,682
- Japan
My friend said that there might not be such a change, but after the 1.17 update, I seem to be more prone to strange understeer in situations where the front tires are loaded.
I'm assuming that perhaps there was some change in the simulation of interference with the fenders, or in the steering angle compensation during gamepad play, but in situations where the front is loaded, the steering is almost impossible to turn regardless of speed, and releasing the brakes does not change this situation.
Also troubling is that this symptom can occur suddenly while cornering, and a car that was turning in the proper line at turn-in will suddenly steer back and the understeer I mentioned earlier will occur halfway through the corner.
I believe that a change in physics is causing this understeer, as I have not changed my car settings or driving style before and after the update, but I had a friend of mine drive a car with the same settings and he did not see any of these changes.
Incidentally, this is all happening with the PS4 controller, but since all of these situations occur under heavy loads on the front tires, it is unlikely that it is a controller failure.
And oddly enough, this phenomenon also occurs on cars like the 32 Ford, which has no front fenders...meaning there should be no interference with the front fenders.
- 529
- Oregon
- ILLEAGLE_34
Counter turn assist on?
I’m honestly not sure what your describing but I would just like to say there’s many more reasons besides a fender that could be causing the steering problem.
Here.. i tryed to force weight transfer on Ac and GT7,not hot lapping.
What i can see? GT 7 has a stronger lift off oversteer. The car rotate more after lift off the throttle.
But the huge difference Is under braking: on gt7, if i don't brake too much strong and i don't exceed front tires grip limit,i can load the front to make the rear more loosy.
Alfa Mito (as my Abarth grande Punto,they are about the same car) has a strong brake bias on front and the tail Is light. Irl Is easy to feel the tail light under braking. If i brake too much strong,in game, i understeer as i should irl.
On AC the car Is almost always too much stable under braking. I would not say It Is impossible to load the front as i said,but..almost impossible.
I know that now will arrive biased people to prove biased ideas. So my post Is useless,like 90% of conversation on internet,but i tryed.
PS: again, what sucks a lot on gt7 Is the force feedback. I really hate It now that i switched from g923 to t300rs. I don't have fun anymore with the game cause the ffb. I really can't accept that the game countersteer itself the wheel even with countersteering assist off. Even effects on understeer are horribles (wtf Is that vibration).
Ps2: Sorry for double posting,i had a internet issue
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- 1,682
- Japan
All assists are turned off except ABS. (I originally cut ABS as well, but turned it on because I suspected the front tires were locking up)
Since this occurred when I was playing earlier, I will describe the situation in detail.
I was using Viper GTS and was driving Watkins Glen.
Then as I came to the last corner, I braked and then turned in, but the steering did not turn at all and I could not change my line at all with terrible understeer and went into the wall.
If you compare the photo I took at the last corner with the photo taken at the corner just before it, you will see that the front tires have less steering angle.
The first picture is the corner before the last corner, and the second and third pictures are the last corner.
In both cases, the stick was fully tipped in the direction of the turn, and visually no clipping of the front fenders and tires occurred.
Also in the settings, the ride height is raised about 3 cm higher than the preset of the fully customized suspension to avoid interference with the front tires, and the front dampers and springs are also set harder than the preset.
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