Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[bread82]

The oversteer issue wasn't patched until update 1.13, ...

"Adjusted the geometry calculations algorithm for the suspension. This has resulted in improved traction for rear-wheel drive cars and lessened reactions to weight transfer;"

I never realised this, I started only a few weeks ago and the version had already been updated. Lots of people on the net are unhappy with the oversteer even now. I've had a few FR cars bite me when applying power but I can usually learn the throttle control or tune out with suspension. Things are definitely looser than GTSport though. Personally I find it OK but I don't really have anything to compare it to in RL.

Turbo lag now appears to be implemented, the boost gauge lags behind the throttle bar. I wonder if this has made power oversteer more of a problem (guy mashes throttle on his tuned car, "feels safe" then 1sec later hisssssssss and he rips loose the rear end).

I wonder how much worse it was pre ver1.13.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I never realised this, I started only a few weeks ago and the version had already been updated. Lots of people on the net are unhappy with the oversteer even now. I've had a few FR cars bite me when applying power but I can usually learn the throttle control or tune out with suspension. Things are definitely looser than GTSport though. Personally I find it OK but I don't really have anything to compare it to in RL.

I go back and forth between the two and the GTSport understeer is prominent. But, in GT7, the wheelspin oversteer is excessive. It might be intentional with some cars to make drifting easier, for instance the v8 swapped Miata. The Miura is another, where it's like a happy dog, even though I have done nothing to the engine or weight and I am running soft tires.

At this point, I feel like the physics are different, but not necessarily better than GTSport.

 

[NevilleNobody]

THing is, if you take out the understeer from GTS and remove the wheel spin from GT7, lap times are going to be insane.

 

[F30clubman]

Lots of people on the net are unhappy with the oversteer even now.

For them there is an easy solution (it was already there pré-1.13): TCS = 1 ...

But, in GT7, the wheelspin oversteer is excessive. [...] The Miura is another, where it's like a happy dog, even though I have done nothing to the engine or weight and I am running soft tires.

It feels like the "PD stock" suspension settings are off with the Miura. When stiffening and setting a bit higher the front end (rear remains stock) and setting realistic toe-ins, the Miura becomes driveable. Wheelspin oversteer is gone, but it remains challenging and very enjoyable to steer and to get the power to the ground.

 

[Voodoovaj]

For them there is an easy solution (it was already there pré-1.13): ICS = 1 ...

It feels like the "PD stock" suspension settings are off with the Miura. When stiffening and setting a bit higher the front end (rear remains stock) and setting realistic toe-ins, the Miura becomes driveable. Wheelspin oversteer is gone, but it remains challenging and very enjoyable to steer and to get the power to the ground.

I will give that a try

 

[LSFDRX]

For them there is an easy solution (it was already there pré-1.13): ICS = 1 ...

What is ICS?

And for the discussion, why do so many people have a hard line for "this tire equals this model"? We don't, nor does GT know, what specific street tires equal each tire model in game, so why are so many of you stalwartly sticking to "this=that"?

The way I see it, if the tire model in game doesn't match the real world performance then that model doesn't match. Greasand, you keep saying your Miata won't spin the tires on car, but they will in the game. Ok... but there are many different tire models above comfort, and there is no doubt one that is closer to IRL than the one you claim to be "it" that will match the traction limits of your car. It makes no sense to me to claim one is equal to the other when the data doesn't line up at all and there are other options that no doubt will align much better.

In general, anyone saying "this tire equals this" without some form of real world data correlating the two, is speaking nonsense.

As a side note, there are some in here that continue to offer opinions despite having already blown their own credibility by saying things that make no sense, self-affirming that their real world knowledge of driving dynamics is greatly flawed and can't be trusted when determining the way in which GT simulates driving. Those that do know should stop feeding the trolls.

Not you, Greasand... haha. Your Miata is no doubt a hoot, you just need to adjust your real world experience to the in-game tire model better.

 

[br1x]

I go back and forth between the two and the GTSport understeer is prominent. But, in GT7, the wheelspin oversteer is excessive. It might be intentional with some cars to make drifting easier, for instance the v8 swapped Miata. The Miura is another, where it's like a happy dog, even though I have done nothing to the engine or weight and I am running soft tires.

At this point, I feel like the physics are different, but not necessarily better than GTSport.

I have the feeling PD has a big problem with their aero model in GT7.
Cars feel a bit too overrsteery in low-downforce situations (especially felt on low-speed corner exits in race cars) while being too understeery and seemingly unable to get to oversteer at higher speeds (there has been a video of the CLK LM driven by Kie if I remember correctly, where he couldn't make the car spin at over 200kmh, no matter how hard he tried. Yes, that car has high downforce but it being impossible to get to spin at that speed is just ridiculous and shows the aero problem.)

So they went with this weird middleground to not make very low AND very high speeds overly problematic in either direction for now I guess.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I have the feeling PD has a big problem with their aero model in GT7.
Cars feel a bit too overrsteery in low-downforce situations (especially felt on low-speed corner exits in race cars) while being too understeery and seemingly unable to get to oversteer at higher speeds (there has been a video of the CLK LM driven by Kie if I remember correctly, where he couldn't make the car spin at over 200kmh, no matter how hard he tried. Yes, that car has high downforce but it being impossible to get to spin at that speed is just ridiculous and shows the aero problem.)

So they went with this weird middleground to not make very low AND very high speeds overly problematic in either direction for now I guess.

Ya, this area is so nuanced that it's difficult to tell. They traditionally throw away anything that take cycles from the graphics. I think they've done aero better this time around, but it still isn't as nuanced as it needs to be to feel right.

 

[s0cks]

After a month or 2 of playing just PC sims, I came back to GT7 this weekend to give it a whirl. My thoughts:

• The tracks are so much smoother in GT7. If there are small bumps and dips in the road they don't seem to have any impact on the driving camera or car. Driving a track in GT7 and it feels like they've perfectly leveled the tarmac. Not sure if this is car physics or their tracks tbh.
• Braking in GT7 sucks. It's too stable and controlled with ABS, and with ABS default you can just mash the brake pedal without any cost. In PC sims, you ride the ABS and your braking distance increases quite significantly - you have to get exactly the right braking pressure.
• Oversteer still feels weird. Maybe it's the FFB, but when the rear end flies loose it just doesn't feel right. It's not major, like in the release version, but it still just feels odd and I can't put my finger on it.
• FFB is generally just pretty weak and unexciting.

It definitely feels much more simplified driving GT7 compared to PC sims. You can tell there is definitely not nearly as much going on under the hood imo. I don't think this makes the game less enjoyable, but it has made me laugh at myself for originally thinking GT was up there in terms of physics realism. It's really not.

 

[FerrariF40]

Dont know exactly why but somehow i like GT Sport physics and FFB a little bit more. Its more fun in multiplayer for me.

 

[Scaff]

After a month or 2 of playing just PC sims, I came back to GT7 this weekend to give it a whirl. My thoughts:

• The tracks are so much smoother in GT7. If there are small bumps and dips in the road they don't seem to have any impact on the driving camera or car. Driving a track in GT7 and it feels like they've perfectly leveled the tarmac. Not sure if this is car physics or their tracks tbh.
• Braking in GT7 sucks. It's too stable and controlled with ABS, and with ABS default you can just mash the brake pedal without any cost. In PC sims, you ride the ABS and your braking distance increases quite significantly - you have to get exactly the right braking pressure.
• Oversteer still feels weird. Maybe it's the FFB, but when the rear end flies loose it just doesn't feel right. It's not major, like in the release version, but it still just feels odd and I can't put my finger on it.
• FFB is generally just pretty weak and unexciting.

It definitely feels much more simplified driving GT7 compared to PC sims. You can tell there is definitely not nearly as much going on under the hood imo. I don't think this makes the game less enjoyable, but it has made me laugh at myself for originally thinking GT was up there in terms of physics realism. It's really not.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[F30clubman]

What is ICS?

Sorry, TCS.
Corrected my lapsus in the original post too.

 

[Daddio45]

If there are small bumps and dips in the road they don't seem to have any impact on the driving camera or car. Driving a track in GT7 and it feels like they've perfectly leveled the tarmac.

If you haven't already tried it, setting the cockpit camera to mode 2 helps some with this. In general I do agree with you though.

 

[Voodoovaj]

After a month or 2 of playing just PC sims, I came back to GT7 this weekend to give it a whirl. My thoughts:

• The tracks are so much smoother in GT7. If there are small bumps and dips in the road they don't seem to have any impact on the driving camera or car. Driving a track in GT7 and it feels like they've perfectly leveled the tarmac. Not sure if this is car physics or their tracks tbh.
• Braking in GT7 sucks. It's too stable and controlled with ABS, and with ABS default you can just mash the brake pedal without any cost. In PC sims, you ride the ABS and your braking distance increases quite significantly - you have to get exactly the right braking pressure.
• Oversteer still feels weird. Maybe it's the FFB, but when the rear end flies loose it just doesn't feel right. It's not major, like in the release version, but it still just feels odd and I can't put my finger on it.
• FFB is generally just pretty weak and unexciting.

It definitely feels much more simplified driving GT7 compared to PC sims. You can tell there is definitely not nearly as much going on under the hood imo. I don't think this makes the game less enjoyable, but it has made me laugh at myself for originally thinking GT was up there in terms of physics realism. It's really not.

But, remember, this game was never intended (and likely will never be) a true simulator. Simply the need to cater to such a wide audience, and even the controller, means it will always have to a compromise. More like playing with RC cars than driving real cars.

 

[BigSarj]

But, remember, this game was never intended (and likely will never be) a true simulator. Simply the need to cater to such a wide audience, and even the controller, means it will always have to a compromise. More like playing with RC cars than driving real cars.

Play ACC with a good controller setup and it works just as well as Gran Turismo. In my experience, anyway. I don't have much seat time with ACC.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

Are there any games on the way that have the points mentioned implemented and the simplicity of online racing in GTS? There has to be a big player base as well for good matchmaking.
(I'm mentioning GTS instead of GT7 because of the poor lobby functionality.)

What attracts me and many others to GT is the possibility to just jump in and immediately have great online racing with just about enough length, with no faffing around with other stuff.

I'm thinking AC2... Maybe...

 

[OFautomotive]

Hello,

I'm struggling with the behavior of my Subaru Impreza 22B when breaking in the corners, it seems like it would go straight on the wall.... I just have Sport soft tyres and Sports suspensions only (which lower not that much than the stock suspensions).

Anyone has the same problem ?

 

[venancio]

After a month or 2 of playing just PC sims, I came back to GT7 this weekend to give it a whirl. My thoughts:

• The tracks are so much smoother in GT7. If there are small bumps and dips in the road they don't seem to have any impact on the driving camera or car. Driving a track in GT7 and it feels like they've perfectly leveled the tarmac. Not sure if this is car physics or their tracks tbh.
• Braking in GT7 sucks. It's too stable and controlled with ABS, and with ABS default you can just mash the brake pedal without any cost. In PC sims, you ride the ABS and your braking distance increases quite significantly - you have to get exactly the right braking pressure.
• Oversteer still feels weird. Maybe it's the FFB, but when the rear end flies loose it just doesn't feel right. It's not major, like in the release version, but it still just feels odd and I can't put my finger on it.
• FFB is generally just pretty weak and unexciting.

It definitely feels much more simplified driving GT7 compared to PC sims. You can tell there is definitely not nearly as much going on under the hood imo. I don't think this makes the game less enjoyable, but it has made me laugh at myself for originally thinking GT was up there in terms of physics realism. It's really not.

I'm talking out of my ass, but here is my 2 cents:
- Tracks are laser scanned as in any other game, probably GT feeds less info to the FFB so it feels smoother than it should.

- Breaking is weird and the implementation of ABS and TC are very simplified but the ABS in GT does what it should, stable, short and controllable breaking, if your PC sims ABS increases breaking distance then it is implemented incorrrectly.

- FFB strength is subjective but I agree that we could have a bigger range of details comming through the wheel.

 

[Scaff]

Are there any games on the way that have the points mentioned implemented and the simplicity of online racing in GTS? There has to be a big player base as well for good matchmaking.
(I'm mentioning GTS instead of GT7 because of the poor lobby functionality.)

What attracts me and many others to GT is the possibility to just jump in and immediately have great online racing with just about enough length, with no faffing around with other stuff.

I'm thinking AC2... Maybe...

I'd actually put RaceRoom as a better match for on-line racing

I'm talking out of my ass, but here is my 2 cents:
- Tracks are laser scanned as in any other game, probably GT feeds less info to the FFB so it feels smoother than it should.

A laser scanned track doesn't automatically mean the application is equal across all titles, the road surface mesh can still differ in the degree of fidelity that's then applied to the final track we drive.

- Breaking is weird and the implementation of ABS and TC are very simplified but the ABS in GT does what it should, stable, short and controllable breaking, if your PC sims ABS increases breaking distance then it is implemented incorrrectly.

The principal purpose of ABS isn't to shorten braking distances, but to allow steering to be applied while braking and balancing the overlap of the two. ABS systems on purpose built racecars also have quite different applications and thresholds to the systems used in road cars (the same applies to TCS systems).

- FFB strength is subjective but I agree that we could have a bigger range of details comming through the wheel.

GT as a series just doesn't have enough fidelity in terms of both strength (or rather the manner in which steering load increases as self-aligning torque builds) or the range of detail. Much of which is down to the over simplistic range of set-up options, now no-one wants the mess in terms of FFB set-up that the original Project Cars had, but a balance exists between those two extremes.

 

[LSFDRX]

Sorry, TCS.
Corrected my lapsus in the original post too.

TCS should never be a solution to driving a car, especially a car that was lightyears away from actually having it. Inability to control throttle input has nothing to do with the Miura. There are many cars that take conscientious control, and this is not a condemnation of them, only the person driving them.

 

[FA_Hayes]

After a month or 2 of playing just PC sims, I came back to GT7 this weekend to give it a whirl. My thoughts:

• The tracks are so much smoother in GT7. If there are small bumps and dips in the road they don't seem to have any impact on the driving camera or car. Driving a track in GT7 and it feels like they've perfectly leveled the tarmac. Not sure if this is car physics or their tracks tbh.
• Braking in GT7 sucks. It's too stable and controlled with ABS, and with ABS default you can just mash the brake pedal without any cost. In PC sims, you ride the ABS and your braking distance increases quite significantly - you have to get exactly the right braking pressure.
• Oversteer still feels weird. Maybe it's the FFB, but when the rear end flies loose it just doesn't feel right. It's not major, like in the release version, but it still just feels odd and I can't put my finger on it.
• FFB is generally just pretty weak and unexciting.

It definitely feels much more simplified driving GT7 compared to PC sims. You can tell there is definitely not nearly as much going on under the hood imo. I don't think this makes the game less enjoyable, but it has made me laugh at myself for originally thinking GT was up there in terms of physics realism. It's really not.

Yep. Hence me upgrading to PC this week. Part of me is confident I didn't blow a bunch of money on new stuff and will finally be satisfied. Ugh I can't wait. Last pieces delivered tomorrow!

Seriously can't wait to fire up everything and experience triples with proper fov and better physics.

 

[F30clubman]

TCS should never be a solution to driving a car, especially a car that was lightyears away from actually having it.

Agree. It's not a solution (not for me). But it would be for those who are still complaining about to much oversteer in the physics, and are not capable or not willing to learn to adjust suspension or LSD settings ...

 

[F30clubman]

Hello,

I'm struggling with the behavior of my Subaru Impreza 22B when breaking in the corners, it seems like it would go straight on the wall.... I just have Sport soft tyres and Sports suspensions only (which lower not that much than the stock suspensions).

Anyone has the same problem ?

I tried it (on sport hard tyres and stock suspension) but noticed nothing abnormal. Do you mean the inside wall? Then this is typical behaviour of 4WD cars. Like rally pilots you can use it to your advantage for a better entrance into the corner, or make sure you brake in a straight line.

 

[R3V]

The McLaren F1 is undriveable. How much worse was it pre-patch? Was it as understeery off throttle as it is now, and even more oversteery with any throttle input? This is typically one of the best cars to drive in sims, even in GT5 and GT6 IIRC. Maybe I need to put my wheel back on and try the new update but with the controller it's ridiculous how this car behaves.

 

[Iso Octane]

...Simply the need to cater to such a wide audience, and even the controller, means it will always have to a compromise. ..

This isn't true. The physics being realistic underneath isn't held back by the controller. A player's ability to control the car will be though, hence why assists exist, and why a layer of algorithm exists to interpret stick movement to wheel.

Which is why...

Maybe I need to put my wheel back on and try the new update but with the controller it's ridiculous how this car behaves.

... You should put your wheel back on. GT7's always-on controller assists are quite heavy handed. They'll get in the way of experiencing over/understeer behavior.

 

[s0cks]

If you haven't already tried it, setting the cockpit camera to mode 2 helps some with this. In general I do agree with you though.

Gives me motion sickness unfortunately. I just feel like the car gets much less knocked around by the road surface than in other sims.

 

[s0cks]

Are there any games on the way that have the points mentioned implemented and the simplicity of online racing in GTS? There has to be a big player base as well for good matchmaking.
(I'm mentioning GTS instead of GT7 because of the poor lobby functionality.)

What attracts me and many others to GT is the possibility to just jump in and immediately have great online racing with just about enough length, with no faffing around with other stuff.

I'm thinking AC2... Maybe...

100% iRacing if you have PC. If not, then maybe ACC, or as you said, maybe AC2 when that comes.

 

[Skinny McLean]

I'd actually put RaceRoom as a better match for on-line racing

I'll second that - especially if you're located in Europe, like @HugoTwoWheels seems to be.

 

[Sunzi]

Feels to me like my Mazda Touring Car has changed since before 1.16.

Understeer more than it did. I did this race (the Human Comedy Endurance) 4 x in the last day or so and the physics feel like they've changed.

 

[FerrariF40]

How does FFB now feel?