Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Wolfe]

Nope, quite the opposite, it's far too wide for most by default.

That would be more typical. I was going by the comments that the sense of speed is lacking -- which is a narrower FOV than the user expects. Too wide of a FOV makes it seem like you're going faster.

I think there may have been some confusion of which is which.

 

[Magog]

Nope, quite the opposite, it's far too wide for most by default.

Varies a bit depending on the viewpoint you choose too though, right? There are I think two interior views, a hood view, a bumper view and a view from behind the car. I prefer the bumper view.

 

[05XR8]

Nope, quite the opposite, it's far too wide for most by default.

Agree. I have Sony 36” and 65” tvs. Even with the 36”, all cars in ACC are consistent with the dash view, sans steering wheel. In GTS, it’s a lottery with each car. Some close enough, some too far. Even bringing the dash closer, is still too far.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Varies a bit depending on the viewpoint you choose too though, right? There are I think two interior views, a hood view, a bumper view and a view from behind the car. I prefer the bumper view.

Bumper view shows speed the best IMO. I’m a cockpit guy, and I don’t feel it does a good job at all. Plus like others have mentioned, the FOV in cockpit is Russian roulette. Some cars it’s good (Ferrari), others it’s bad (Nissan GTR group 2 cars)

I jump into my VR set and all is right

 

[Magog]

Bumper view shows speed the best IMO. I’m a cockpit guy, and I don’t feel it does a good job at all. Plus like others have mentioned, the FOV in cockpit is Russian roulette. Some cars it’s good (Ferrari), others it’s bad (Nissan GTR group 2 cars)

I jump into my VR set and all is right

Are you using the closer or farther view for the cockpit? Further out should give a better sense of speed.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Yeah, but then I feel like a mile away from the hood of the car.

 

[BigSarj]

I get the feeling that it is the same false reasoning that FOV sliders aren't available in Warzone on consoles. Except in that case it's more so Raven/Activision straight up not caring and a lot more insidious reasoning then GT, which is simply not giving a **** about an actually important feature.

Insurgency Sandstorm is made by a small dev team and even they have a FoV slider for their PS4 version of the game. I think Cold War may have had one, too. It will boggle the mind if the PS5 version doesn't have one.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Insurgency Sandstorm is made by a small dev team and even they have a FoV slider for their PS4 version of the game. I think Cold War may have had one, too. It will boggle the mind if the PS5 version doesn't have one.

Cold War has an FOV slider on all platforms. Insurgency has an FOV slider, and Halo Infinite does as well.

There is simply no excuse to at least add an FOV slider in GT7 in general since there absolutely will be one for PSVR2 support.

 

[Imari]

FOV sliders are rare in console games because increasing it lowers performance. With VRR coming to PS5 a few dropped frames likely won't be noticeable if you have a compatible TV though.

Nah, the standard FOV GT uses is too wide. Having a slider that let the player lower it would only increase performance.

 

[Magog]

Nah, the standard FOV GT uses is too wide. Having a slider that let the player lower it would only increase performance.

The complaint was that it makes the game seem too slow. Wide seems faster than narrow because you see more of the sides which move faster than the center of the frame since the edges of the track are closer to you. But you are of course correct that a wider frame is more taxing graphically.

 

[Scaff]

The complaint was that it makes the game seem too slow. Wide seems faster than narrow because you see more of the sides which move faster than the center of the frame since the edges of the track are closer to you. But you are of course correct that a wider frame is more taxing graphically.

I can assure you that the standard cockpit views in GTS are too wide for the majority of people, I run a 32" monitor in my rig and my eyes are about 60cm from it, which gives me an hFoV of 60 degrees.

GTS appears to be around the 80 degree mark in cockpit cams, as per this thread, and my own experience would support that.

Does anyone know the FOV in GT Sport?

I know you can't change it but read up a bit on this and seems there is a relation between FOV, display size and distance to the screen. As I am quite variable with the viewing distance I wanna try optimizing it, but not sure what the "prefect" distance would be. Does anyone have a clue what...

www.gtplanet.net

Keep in mind that other factors such as motion blur can affect the sense of speed as well, it's not just down to FoV.

Modern FOV Calculator

 

[Imari]

The complaint was that it makes the game seem too slow. Wide seems faster than narrow because you see more of the sides which move faster than the center of the frame since the edges of the track are closer to you. But you are of course correct that a wider frame is more taxing graphically.

However people are experiencing it, the default FOV is too wide.

Technically a wide FOV feels faster than a narrow one and the logic behind that is sound. But even if you've played with a correct FOV, you'll know that it feels really slow compared to real life. We're all used to driving cars with loud noise and vibrations and wind and g forces being major contributors to our sense of speed. Without that, everything feels slow no matter how ridiculous your FOV is. That's where I assume the initial description of "slow" comes from, the game is being compared to real life as GTS doesn't have the ability for the player to experiment and see whether the default FOV feels "fast" or "slow".

There's nothing to be done about the physicality part of it without spending big bucks on a motion rig. But you can improve the ability to judge corners by having a correct FOV. That was also part of the initial complaint - judging corner speed and severity with an incorrect FOV is hard because you're going against decades of real world experience judging object distance and motion.

With a correct FOV your brain eventually learns to compensate for the lack of physical sensations. With an incorrect FOV something always feels off and your brain will always have to work harder to maintain this secondary perceptual framework. "Slow" probably isn't the best descriptor of what's going wrong there, but it's understandable from a player that's just trying their best to describe the oddness that they feel.

 

[Wolfe]

Choice of FOV is very subjective.

Judging corner speed and severity with a "correct" FOV on a single screen is hard because I'm going against decades of videogame experience judging object distance and motion with simulated peripheral vision in 4:3 and 16:9 ratios. I do not need a physically-accurate perspective because I do not perceive the image as physically local; I am not driving the car through a 27" window. That's not easy and not pleasant regardless of how my lap goes.

If I had two more screens, an accurate calculated FOV would be a no-brainer. It is an essential step in that setup. It is a tool for the right use case.

 

[mirial]

Agree. I have Sony 36” and 65” tvs. Even with the 36”, all cars in ACC are consistent with the dash view, sans steering wheel. In GTS, it’s a lottery with each car. Some close enough, some too far. Even bringing the dash closer, is still too far.

In the real cars whilst driving them, the FOV will be superior to anything that they try to replicate for games, and the cockpit views are just a gimmick because their FOV limits your ability to sight points of reference in a timely fashion to ensure you're always ahead of the car. If PD's FOV is wider than what people expect, then it might be for practical reasons so that it gives you much more scope for sighting points of reference to compensate for the limitations of a flat, wide screen TV. At the end of the day, most pro-driver's true POV using peripheral vision will barely have the actual cockpit boundary when he goes to work, so most of the games' cockpit views are just occupying a lot of space that could be used to show more track which is what matters most.

Incidentally, and this sort of contradicts what I've just said, but PD have always kept the driver and lap time lists on the left and right hand sides of the screen which can often obscure your exit view on hairpins. I'm surprised this has never been addressed because the other platform developers have gone to the trouble of keeping the far sides of the screen clear.

PD's FOV using a wide screen with bumper view is just about ok if there are no lists either side in some modes, but ideally some kind of dynamic POV that rotates as you enter the corner would be better so that you can align the car for the exit as early as possible, or just a much wider curved screen would resolve the whole problem.

 

[Magog]

In the real cars whilst driving them, the FOV will be superior to anything that they try to replicate for games, and the cockpit views are just a gimmick because their FOV limits your ability to sight points of reference in a timely fashion to ensure you're always ahead of the car. If PD's FOV is wider than what people expect, then it might be for practical reasons so that it gives you much more scope for sighting points of reference to compensate for the limitations of a flat, wide screen TV. At the end of the day, most pro-driver's true POV using peripheral vision will barely have the actual cockpit boundary when he goes to work, so most of the games' cockpit views are just occupying a lot of space that could be used to show more track which is what matters most.

Incidentally, and this sort of contradicts what I've just said, but PD have always kept the driver and lap time lists on the left and right hand sides of the screen which can often obscure your exit view on hairpins. I'm surprised this has never been addressed because the other platform developers have gone to the trouble of keeping the far sides of the screen clear.

PD's FOV using a wide screen with bumper view is just about ok if there are no lists either side in some modes, but ideally some kind of dynamic POV that rotates as you enter the corner would be better so that you can align the car for the exit as early as possible, or just a much wider curved screen would resolve the whole problem.

They actually did try that with the Playstation camera.

Gran Turismo 5's "Head Tracking" Explained

Shortly after Gran Turismo 5's feature list popped up on Polyphony Digital's website, pandemonium broke out as everyone rushed to secure an accurate translation. With the added excitement of the playable demo at GamesCom and our first look at damage, some pretty remarkable new features slipped unde

www.gtplanet.net

The concept itself is simple enough – it’s a camera that tracks the movement of your head – but the results are breathtaking. If you’ve never seen this new technology in action, watch the following demos and you’ll quickly realize the implications of such a feature in Gran Turismo 5.

As we learned from Polyphony Digital’s website, you’ll be able to use this head tracking technology to manipulate the “cockpit camera” and presumably look through the corners and at your opponents with the simple turn of your head. From the translation (confirmed by Yamauchi):

“…the movement of Cockpit Camera interface (confirmed in full 3-D. The camera can be fully manipulated and you can opt to have your head tracked by the PSEye)”

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Not sure what the issue is. I have zero issues judging speed and distance. As in real life.
But, theoretically, I'm sure you're right - I just adapt and have no issues.

If they leave bumper cam as is for GT7, I couldn't care less.

 

[ImaRobot]

Not sure what the issue is. I have zero issues judging speed and distance. As in real life.
But, theoretically, I'm sure you're right - I just adapt and have no issues.

If they leave bumper cam as is for GT7, I couldn't care less.

The issue is the lack of options for something relatively simple. I mean, that's all everyone has been saying. That option wouldn't affect anyone negatively.

 

[Scaff]

They actually did try that with the Playstation camera.

Gran Turismo 5's "Head Tracking" Explained

Shortly after Gran Turismo 5's feature list popped up on Polyphony Digital's website, pandemonium broke out as everyone rushed to secure an accurate translation. With the added excitement of the playable demo at GamesCom and our first look at damage, some pretty remarkable new features slipped unde

www.gtplanet.net

The concept itself is simple enough – it’s a camera that tracks the movement of your head – but the results are breathtaking. If you’ve never seen this new technology in action, watch the following demos and you’ll quickly realize the implications of such a feature in Gran Turismo 5.

As we learned from Polyphony Digital’s website, you’ll be able to use this head tracking technology to manipulate the “cockpit camera” and presumably look through the corners and at your opponents with the simple turn of your head. From the translation (confirmed by Yamauchi):

It wasn't new tech back in the GT5 days, it was new for console, but headtracking tools have been around for sims on PC for a good decade before.

 

[Silver Arrows]

The issue is the lack of options for something relatively simple. I mean, that's all everyone has been saying. That option wouldn't affect anyone negatively.

And an option that they'll likely have to add in if they intend on doing PSVR2 support. So why not just add it in generality, like the vast majority of shooters that are releasing by this point?

 

[Scaff]

And an option that they'll likely have to add in if they intend on doing PSVR2 support. So why not just add it in generality, like the vast majority of shooters that are releasing by this point?

They didn't add it to GTS and that has PSVR support, so I'm not personally going to hold my breath for it.

 

[Magog]

It wasn't new tech back in the GT5 days, it was new for console, but headtracking tools have been around for sims on PC for a good decade before.

It's a quote from this website. It was fairly new at the time. It's a poor man's VR before VR had validated itself anyway.

 

[Scaff]

It's a quote from this website. It was fairly new at the time. It's a poor man's VR before VR had validated itself anyway.

I know it's a quote from the website, I'm simply pointing out its inaccurate. Trackir was first released in 2001, nearly a decade before.

I also used it on GT5 and while it did away with the need for a reference point, it wasn't quite as well functioning as they claimed.

Don't get me wrong I used opentrack on PC heavily before I got a VR headset and it's a great option, but Sonys claims in the article are exaggerated.

 

[Yard_Sale]

As much as I would hate to say it, VR in sport mode for Gran Turismo I think would mainly be a competitive hinderance. Wouldn’t stop me from using it tho.

The only reason I say this, is you learn really how sim-cade the physics are. I retested my theory again today to see how close I could get to my best gr.3 458 time at Fuji (and embarrassing 1:38.3), and I still couldn’t get within a second of it with my VR set. It’s crazy how out of control I felt taking corners at a 1:40 pace haha!! It’s so different when you’re actually “in the drivers seat” traveling the speeds that the physics of GT allow you.

To test my hypothesis, I jumped immediately from that VR hot lapping sesh, and went into PC2 for console….which has probably the most well done cockpit physics on console. Granted, it’s no VR, but it has cameras tgat simulate you looking through corners and such (something Gran Turismo could, and should REALLY DO!). The speeds that you are traveling in the same “group 3” cars in a real simulator are almost night and day. It felt so-much slower in PC2. Same for ACC on console. And those are 2 games I feel are optimized FOR cockpit view

 

[Imari]

To test my hypothesis, I jumped immediately from that VR hot lapping sesh, and went into PC2 for console….which has probably the most well done cockpit physics on console. Granted, it’s no VR, but it has cameras tgat simulate you looking through corners and such (something Gran Turismo could, and should REALLY DO!).

It's a shame the "helmet cam" thing where it looks through corners for you didn't take off more. I thought it was a cool idea, and while it's not for me it definitely adds an option with it's own unique benefits and drawbacks.

 

[fernandito]

The complaint was that it makes the game seem too slow. Wide seems faster than narrow because you see more of the sides which move faster than the center of the frame since the edges of the track are closer to you. But you are of course correct that a wider frame is more taxing graphically.

Using a wider fov will make you slower. Yeah narrow will hurt the sense of speed big time, so long you are not using either triple screen or Virtual Reality which btw needs to be said too, but will decrease your lap times dramatically as well, even on single screen. Such is the nature of simulators.

Also, if FoV slider isn't available in GT7 on a PS5 with such porwerful cpu/gpu, then Yamauchi's case when it comes to the simulation department will jump in from laughable to definitely grotesque.

On a side note, arcade racing games with an also very low fov like Driveclub where in third person you see your car in a glorious big shape in the middle of the screen, and at the same time holding a sense of speed as if you were running high fov (old ps1-ps2 style of third camera view), has been one of the greates achievements imo in what it comes to pure fun and addiction to speed, all combined with more or less believable physics (hardcore mode of course, but in this mode i use bumper camera not 3rd person view). I still don't see me quitting on playing Driveclub even after all these years combined with all the other sims i play, not even when GT7 hits.

Yeah I mean the greatest ps4 racer still is, and probably will continue to be Driveclub. But hey bit off topic here yeah, but not in the FoV conversation..

 

[Magog]

Using a wider fov will make you slower. Yeah narrow will hurt the sense of speed big time, so long you are not using either triple screen or Virtual Reality which btw needs to be said too, but will increase your lap times dramatically as well, even on single screen. That is the nature of simulators.

Also, if FoV slider isn't available in GT7 on a PS5 with such porwerful cpu/gpu, then Yamauchi's case when it comes to the simulation department will jump in from laughable to definitely grotesque.

On a side note, arcade racing games with an also very low fov like Driveclub where in third person you see your car in a glorious big shape in the middle of the screen, and at the same time holding a sense of speed as if you were running high fov (old ps1-ps2 style of third camera view), has been one of the greates achievements imo in what it comes to pure fun and addiction to speed, all combined with more or less believable physics (hardcore mode of course, but in this mode i use bumper camera not 3rd person view). I still don't see me quitting on playing Driveclub even after all these years combined with all the other sims i play, not even when GT7 hits.

Yeah I mean the greatest ps4 racer still is, and probably will continue to be Driveclub. But hey bit off topic here yeah, but not in the FoV conversation..

30fps is an automatic DQ for driving games.

 

[fernandito]

30fps is an automatic DQ for driving games.

There're exceptions to the rule when quality in both visuals and handling all well balanced reaches the levels of Driveclub.

Yeah, when I for example switch between ams2, pc2 or acc to Driveclub, in the beginning it takes me one race to again get used to 30fps. But it is just that, one damn race.

The desire to play it agin and again is also capital regardless fps settings. I perfectly notice the difference, but that won't stop me from playing a great game no matter it is a racer or whatever.

 

[mirial]

They actually did try that with the Playstation camera.

Gran Turismo 5's "Head Tracking" Explained

Shortly after Gran Turismo 5's feature list popped up on Polyphony Digital's website, pandemonium broke out as everyone rushed to secure an accurate translation. With the added excitement of the playable demo at GamesCom and our first look at damage, some pretty remarkable new features slipped unde

www.gtplanet.net

The concept itself is simple enough – it’s a camera that tracks the movement of your head – but the results are breathtaking. If you’ve never seen this new technology in action, watch the following demos and you’ll quickly realize the implications of such a feature in Gran Turismo 5.

As we learned from Polyphony Digital’s website, you’ll be able to use this head tracking technology to manipulate the “cockpit camera” and presumably look through the corners and at your opponents with the simple turn of your head. From the translation (confirmed by Yamauchi):

It really does work well and Chris being a driver himself made it work well. The biggest benefit being that you can see the track on the inside when the pillar blocks your view.

 

[snc]

As much as I would hate to say it, VR in sport mode for Gran Turismo I think would mainly be a competitive hinderance. Wouldn’t stop me from using it tho.

The only reason I say this, is you learn really how sim-cade the physics are. I retested my theory again today to see how close I could get to my best gr.3 458 time at Fuji (and embarrassing 1:38.3), and I still couldn’t get within a second of it with my VR set. It’s crazy how out of control I felt taking corners at a 1:40 pace haha!! It’s so different when you’re actually “in the drivers seat” traveling the speeds that the physics of GT allow you.

To test my hypothesis, I jumped immediately from that VR hot lapping sesh, and went into PC2 for console….which has probably the most well done cockpit physics on console. Granted, it’s no VR, but it has cameras tgat simulate you looking through corners and such (something Gran Turismo could, and should REALLY DO!). The speeds that you are traveling in the same “group 3” cars in a real simulator are almost night and day. It felt so-much slower in PC2. Same for ACC on console. And those are 2 games I feel are optimized FOR cockpit view

not sure I understand but do tou think pc2 is real simulator at gt sport not ?:d and that gt3 cars are too fast in gt sport ? The only thing I can agree is that gt sport cockpit view is poor but that has nothing to do with hipothetical psvr2 support

 

[Yard_Sale]

Yes. PC2 is more of a simulator than GTS. Same for ACC. Thats widely accepted and not even a big deal. GTS physics are waaaay sim-cade compared to aforementioned titles. Try murdering the kerbs at Monza, Catalunya, NBG, etc in another title like we're able to in GTS. Won't happen.

My main point (and not even a gripe) is how different the sensation of speed feels between GTS and the other titles. My lap times in GTS are consistently 1.5-2 seconds a lap slower in VR vs cockpit view. Conversely, I'm consistently a couple 1/10's faster using bumper cam over cockpit view in GTS.... but I prefer the extra immersion so I go with cockpit view.

To bring this all together, my lap times in ACC and PC2 are similar to GTS in VR. And the only thing I can draw from that conclusion, is its because I'm dealing with correct FOV and sense of speed in GTS, afforded by VR..... which creates as level as a playing field as I can between all 3 titles


Well, that...... and my control tests are done on courses which I cannot murder the kerbs in GTS......and my control car is the GT3 Ferrari 458, which is a pretty challenging drive in GTS