Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Phaceless_Ph]

I've no idea how you've made that leap from what I said.

A game with more realistic physics could sell well, an example of one other game with realistic physics selling poorly is not conclusive evidence against that ever happening.

Also last I heard Assetto Corsa had sold over 10m.

.

 

[Silver Arrows]

No offence, but if you think GT turning hardcore sim is going to not adversely effect sales then you are kidding yourself from the privilege of your sim racing echo-chamber.

Yet GT could, very easily in fact, change things physics wise to make FF and MR cars actually enjoyable to drive, instead of the dog sleds that they are now. Some of the things that people have been criticizing for years, including in this thread.

You're probably one of those who thinks sim racing is bigger than Premier League.

What the **** is this ad hominem horse****?

Also, pulling the Assetto Corsa card is just confirmation-bias, any title will sell that much when it's been out since 2013, has relatively easy system requirements and is constantly being featured on influencer content.

As opposed to GT games since 5, where half the sales come from people who only use the game as a rolling tech demo for the graphical capabilities of the Playstation system its on?

 

[Dave A]

There is absolutely no reason to believe that if Gran Turismo’s physics were improved and it became more realistic that it would suffer and lose sales as a result. As long as they kept the pad optimisation, marketing etc. on point I don’t see why more realistic physics would be detrimental to sales in any way.

 

[R4M_Wassabi]

They could just add another option where you can toggle the full simulation physics. By default the physics would be the same as they are now, so it would be still accessible for all the players and the more demanding players could change the physics to full simulation. I think that PD could achieve this, because they definitely have the people, money and connections with race teams/drivers and various motorsport related companies, but to me it feels like they are not interested, at least for now.

 

[Magog]

They could just add another option where you can toggle the full simulation physics. By default the physics would be the same as they are now, so it would be still accessible for all the players and the more demanding players could change the physics to full simulation. I think that PD could achieve this, because they definitely have the people, money and connections with race teams/drivers and various motorsport related companies, but to me it feels like they are not interested, at least for now.

That wouldn't work for online races unless they wanted to split the user base. Better to make one really good model anyway. If it's true there is only one person handling the physics I don't think we want him splitting his time between two different versions, lol.

 

[05XR8]

I was going to ask with similar cars and track how are your laps times compared to all three or even just Ac and GTS because those have more variety of cars.

I posted my view, in this thread, with videos, using the AMG GT GT3 in GTS, AC, ACC, PC2 and PC3. I left out Forza, as my XB1 is connected to a different tv.

 

[05XR8]

I've been playing GTS, AC, ACC, PC2 and PC3 back to back(Forza 7 is on a different tv). Same cars and tracks.

PD need to add connectivity to the road. The sensation I feel, is that the cars in GT are on 205 width tyres, while all the other cars are on proper width tyres. The car physics(dive, squat, suspension/roll) are fine. This goes beyond controller/wheel settings. There's a disconnect, in the details, with the road to tyre. Also, with the sensation of engine braking or lack of it. Maybe step up the wind resistance?
Anyway, I tested a race car, but PD have modelled a different feeling to high sidewall tyres on classic cars compared to low profile tyres on modern cars.

I'm not comparing this game does this better or ranking these games(if anything, I didn't believe it until I did them back to back, GTS and ACC are pretty damn close in terms of ease of play on controller). No negativity about that here. This is about the movement of the car. What we "feel" when driving it around. I'm not feeling the weight of the car or what it's doing underneath me, until it's probably too late. So to speak.






I honestly, now, don't think the GT physics will change. It's too easy for everyone. As in, the casual(majority) players really don't need to feel much more than the car turns when you steer it and the car brakes when you pull the trigger. It has to be. Especially, for players that never driven a car. I wonder how GT-GT4 would feel, using the DS4.
If PD want to go ahead and add more feeling with car behavior, I'm all for it. Is that what "Simulation Mode" could be about? More feeling? I don't know. However... Yeah, I'm convinced PD won't go any further than what is programmed in GT Sport.

Lap times are visible.

 

[R4M_Wassabi]

That wouldn't work for online races unless they wanted to split the user base. Better to make one really good model anyway. If it's true there is only one person handling the physics I don't think we want him splitting his time between two different versions, lol.

"one really good model" could work and would be more fitting for a franchise like GT, but it is still a compromise and people will naturally ask for more, that's why i said that they could add two options, but as you have said it would introduce different problems, like splitting the user base.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I posed the same question a couple pages back, and some dude had a really good answer as to why it wouldn’t work. As much as I would like a new daily race that had a more proper “sim” feel, that’s not realistic.

It would be cool to have it as an option for single player mode tho. Or at least…. More realistic physics available on a car by car basis for the sake of hot lapping about or doing custom races.

At any rate, ACC is supposedly doing a PS5 port like next month or something. Upgraded frame rates, better graphics. The whole bit. If GT7’s single player mode is not up to par for me (which is going to be completely dependent on the AI), ACC will become my casual title and GT7 will be used for online racing and Car Of The Week stuff.

Hopefully GT7 lives up to all of our grossly unrealistic expectations. And hopefully the ACC PS5 port is good enough for me not to go down the PC route

 

[JDMKING13]

Lap times are visible.

Thank you for the videos! My question to you is do you normally drive with TC on 3 and do you use abs weak or default?

 

[05XR8]

Thank you for the videos! My question to you is do you normally drive with TC on 3 and do you use abs weak or default?

I drrive with TCS Off, ABS Default in Gran Turismo. Default settings(TCS On) in ACC, Authentic settings in AC & PC2. Only problem, as you can see with the GTS video, I was in Time Trial. Setting up a Lobby would have been more accurate comparable, as the other games have tyre/fuel wear enabled. Manual gears for all games.

AC1 is the most tricky for me. I’ve used other player’s controller sensitivity settings, but haven’t found a setting for my comfort level. Hence, I‘m more cautious than in the other videos. With older less downforce cars in AC1, like the E30 DTM, 190E DTM, AE86, I’m more adjusted to the standard controller settings.

 

[JDMKING13]

I drrive with TCS Off, ABS Default in Gran Turismo. Default settings(TCS On) in ACC, Authentic settings in AC & PC2. Only problem, as you can see with the GTS video, I was in Time Trial. Setting up a Lobby would have been more accurate comparable, as the other games have tyre/fuel wear enabled. Manual gears for all games.

AC1 is the most tricky for me. I’ve used other player’s controller sensitivity settings, but haven’t found a setting for my comfort level. Hence, I‘m more cautious than in the other videos. With older less downforce cars in AC1, like the E30 DTM, 190E DTM, AE86, I’m more adjusted to the standard controller settings.

Bro I appreciate your response thanks for the info, have you tried to drive GTS with ABS weak? I see a lot of people drive with ABS default and in my opinion it kinda nerfs the breaking a bit. No where close like GT6 but I can feel the difference especially with late or sloppy braking techniques.

 

[05XR8]

Bro I appreciate your response thanks for the info, have you tried to drive GTS with ABS weak? I see a lot of people drive with ABS default and in my option it kinda nerfs the breaking a bit. No where close like GT6 but I can feel the difference especially with late or sloppy braking techniques.

I’ve used ABS weak in one FIA race long ago and switched it back to Default mid-race. Used ABS Off for historic cars and some modern cars that’s didn’t come with ABS. I never tried ABS off with the W08 and vintage F1(FT1500T? can never get the name right), but drove those with TCS Off.
It’s just me, the adjustment with ABS Off with controller, is very touchy(again, for me).

 

[Pfei]

I’ve used ABS weak in one FIA race long ago and switched it back to Default mid-race.

Indeed. ABS weak is much more realistic and a bit faster but even small lockups will roast your tires.

 

[JDMKING13]

I’ve used ABS weak in one FIA race long ago and switched it back to Default mid-race. Used ABS Off for historic cars and some modern cars that’s didn’t come with ABS. I never tried ABS off with the W08 and vintage F1(FT1500T? can never get the name right), but drove those with TCS Off.
It’s just me, the adjustment with ABS Off with controller, is very touchy(again, for me).

Yea like you.. if a car doesn’t come with ABS I don’t use it, ABS off is not crazy hard but takes a lot of attention and skill not to lock up brakes.. I feel AC non ABS is a better. ABS weak makes the cars feel a lot closer to driving ACC and Ac In my opinion, I was shocked to see in my league race that only two of us was running ABS weak vs the other 14 used default. A lot of people I think use default braking in which I believe is like an breaking aid. Nothing with wrong using it but as I said early it definitely nerfs the braking in GTS.
Side note I’m going to be running a project before GT7 comes and I see we both have some similarities in our Gaming/car style. If you ever free let me know because I can use your help/ feedback. Thanks for the great conversation!

 

[05XR8]

Indeed. ABS weak is much more realistic and a bit faster but even small lockups will roast your tires.

That and I noticed when watching the replays, most players in all my Sport Mode races, used AT/ABS/TCS. There would be maybe one or two of us that use MT only.

Yea like you.. if a car doesn’t come with ABS I don’t use it, ABS off is not crazy hard but takes a lot of attention and skill not to lock up brakes.. I feel AC non ABS is a better. ABS weak makes the cars feel a lot closer to driving ACC and Ac In my opinion, I was shocked to see in my league race that only two of us was running ABS weak vs the other 14 used default. A lot of people I think use default braking in which I believe is like an breaking aid. Nothing with wrong using it but as I said early it definitely nerfs the braking in GTS.
Side note I’m going to be running a project before GT7 comes and I see we both have some similarities in our Gaming/car style. If you ever free let me know because I can use your help/ feedback. Thanks for the great conversation!

Most of the feedback were through the Daily Race thread, when I was doing those races. Great bunch for critiques and tips.

 

[JDMKING13]

Indeed. ABS weak is much more realistic and a bit faster but even small lockups will roast your tires.

Bro you are spot on! When racing in my endurance league clean braking is a must because if you roast them tires to early it’s over for you 😂. If you are ever free please let me know I could use your help for feedback and data for my project.

 

[BigSarj]

That and I noticed when watching the replays, most players in all my Sport Mode races, used AT/ABS/TCS. There would be maybe one or two of us that use MT only.

I believe that is a replay bug. It will say AT when it is in fact MT. The TCS and ABS, I'm not so sure about.

 

[05XR8]

I believe that is a replay bug. It will say AT when it is in fact MT. The TCS and ABS, I'm not so sure about.

Ah, okay. I think that’s the first I’ve seen that mentioned.


Moving to add from a point Imari made in a different thread, sometimes, we all have to go back to basics.


Calming down and learning the circuit, helps a lot in determining where to place the car, what gear to be in, braking, accelerating.

 

[Imari]

I was going to ask with similar cars and track how are your laps times compared to all three or even just Ac and GTS because those have more variety of cars.

Wouldn't that just be more about matching tyres though?

 

[JDMKING13]

Wouldn't that just be more about matching tyres though?

Yes matching tires are in the equation… I figured people would normally try to match the tires doing the comparison.

 

[Imari]

Yes matching tires are in the equation… I figured people would normally try to match the tires doing the comparison.

ACC gives you it's best simulation of RL tyre grades. GTS doesn't, so you have to pick some that you think are the same.

Let's say you drive two laps that are the same time. Is it because the two simulations are actually the same? Is it because the GTS car is slower but the tyres you put on it are faster and it balances out? Or is the GTS car faster but you put slower tyres on?

Unless GTS gives you a tyre that is explicitly intended to be equivalent to a real life tyre, you're guessing and you'll never know if your guess was right or if your guess was wrong but in a way that cancels out other wrong things in such a way as to give a right answer. It's the problem of the Gran Turismo unified tyre system - it's great for random driving when you know roughly what level of grip you want, but it's largely unusable for comparing laps times between sims because without some external reference point you just can't know if your tyre choice was correct.

 

[JDMKING13]

ACC gives you it's best simulation of RL tyre grades. GTS doesn't, so you have to pick some that you think are the same.

Let's say you drive two laps that are the same time. Is it because the two simulations are actually the same? Is it because the GTS car is slower but the tyres you put on it are faster and it balances out? Or is the GTS car faster but you put slower tyres on?

Unless GTS gives you a tyre that is explicitly intended to be equivalent to a real life tyre, you're guessing and you'll never know if your guess was right or if your guess was wrong but in a way that cancels out other wrong things in such a way as to give a right answer. It's the problem of the Gran Turismo unified tyre system - it's great for random driving when you know roughly what level of grip you want, but it's largely unusable for comparing laps times between sims because without some external reference point you just can't know if your tyre choice was correct.

ACC only has GT3 and GT4 cars best tire that resemble those tires are RH tires in GTS, AC has more tire and car choices. That’s what I’ll be going off I’ve played all games enough to match tires. The test I have done so far each game have been pretty close in terms of times. Do you have all three games can you give any input on them? I would like to know your perspective.

 

[Imari]

...best tire that resemble those tires are RH tires in GTS...

How do you know? Lap times?

Do you have all three games can you give any input on them? I would like to know your perspective.

I don't have easy access to GTS. I never bothered buying a PS4. I was sufficiently disillusioned with Gran Turismo after the debacle that was GT6 that I spent the money I would have spent on a PS4 and a new wheel on PC parts instead. What experience I have with GTS has not made me regret it.

While I remain hopeful that GT7 will progress the franchise I'm not terribly optimistic - I suspect that Polyphony do not think it in their commercial interest to do so. They keep selling ~10 million units a game. I don't think they see a problem there to fix.

 

[JDMKING13]

How do you know? Lap times?

I don't have easy access to GTS. I never bothered buying a PS4. I was sufficiently disillusioned with Gran Turismo after the debacle that was GT6 that I spent the money I would have spent on a PS4 and a new wheel on PC parts instead. What experience I have with GTS has not made me regret it.

While I remain hopeful that GT7 will progress the franchise I'm not terribly optimistic - I suspect that Polyphony do not think it in their commercial interest to do so. They keep selling ~10 million units a game. I don't think they see a problem there to fix.

Ok good to know thank you for your input.

 

[Samus]

No offence, but if you think GT turning hardcore sim is going to not adversely effect sales then you are kidding yourself from the privilege of your sim racing echo-chamber. You're probably one of those who thinks sim racing is bigger than Premier League.

Also, pulling the Assetto Corsa card is just confirmation-bias, any title will sell that much when it's been out since 2013, has relatively easy system requirements and is constantly being featured on influencer content.

It would be nice if you could reply to things I've actually said instead of just inventing things.

I said certain aspects of the physics could be made more realistic and still be accessible, I didn't say GT should be a hardcore sim. Whatever that means anyway, what would make it a hardcore sim? Tyre pressures? Better tyre physics? Damage? What makes a hardcore sim in your eyes?

No, I don't think sim racing is bigger than the premier league. Who even says that? Of course sim racing is still a niche, anyone with a brain knows that.

I'm not "pulling a card", you suggested games with more realistic physics won't sell millions, AC is proof that they can. How they did it is irrelevent, people bought it in their millions. End of.

 

[BigSarj]

Gran Turismo single player is pretty easy compared to most other Japanese games I've played in recent memory. I really wouldn't mind if PD upped the learning curve a bit.

 

[JDMKING13]

It would be nice if you could reply to things I've actually said instead of just inventing things.

I said certain aspects of the physics could be made more realistic and still be accessible, I didn't say GT should be a hardcore sim. Whatever that means anyway, what would make it a hardcore sim? Tyre pressures? Better tyre physics? Damage? What makes a hardcore sim in your eyes?

No, I don't think sim racing is bigger than the premier league. Who even says that? Of course sim racing is still a niche, anyone with a brain knows that.

I'm not "pulling a card", you suggested games with more realistic physics won't sell millions, AC is proof that they can. How they did it is irrelevent, people bought it in their millions. End of.

I agree with you 100% even if the game physics were better and people found it harder there are options you can use to ease up the driving. In all honesty though I don’t think most people want more realistic physics system. I might of asked you before but are you currently playing GTS

 

[Samus]

I agree with you 100% even if the game physics were better and people found it harder there are options you can use to ease up the driving. In all honesty though I don’t think most people want more realistic physics system. I might of asked you before but are you currently playing GTS

But that's the thing, is more realistic hard? I can see how some aspects of realism would be harder, primarily with race cars and things like getting temperature into tyres and brakes, brake fade, engine overheating, gearbox damage if you abuse the gearbox, flatspotting tyres etc etc. That sort of thing is presumably what some people mean when they say GT shouldn't become a hardcore sim and for the most part I'd agree, although including some of those as options wouldn't be the worst thing.

But when we're talking purely about the basic vehicle dynamics and how each behave in relation to the real world, I can't see why anyone would find it harder if they were a little closer to reality. Driving in real life isn't hard obviously and as long as the gamepad 'assists' continue to work as well as they do in past GT games I can't see why anyone would suddenly struggle. People that drive in real life will soon realise the cars are more realistic and need to be driven as such, people who don't drive have no yardstick and should quickly adjust.

No, I'm not currently playing GTS.

 

[JDMKING13]

But that's the thing, is more realistic hard? I can see how some aspects of realism would be harder, primarily with race cars and things like getting temperature into tyres and brakes, brake fade, engine overheating, gearbox damage if you abuse the gearbox, flatspotting tyres etc etc. That sort of thing is presumably what some people mean when they say GT shouldn't become a hardcore sim and for the most part I'd agree, although including some of those as options wouldn't be the worst thing.

But when we're talking purely about the basic vehicle dynamics and how each behave in relation to the real world, I can't see why anyone would find it harder if they were a little closer to reality. Driving in real life isn't hard obviously and as long as the gamepad 'assists' continue to work as well as they do in past GT games I can't see why anyone would suddenly struggle. People that drive in real life will soon realise the cars are more realistic and need to be driven as such, people who don't drive have no yardstick and should quickly adjust.

No, I'm not currently playing GTS.

Bro well said! Going off your first part yea that might be a little extreme but I know they can implement an option to either have it on or off… no different from having damage tire and fuel wear off. Obviously those are not as intricate as the things you mentioned before but I still think it would be cool if they did it. Oh ok I’m sure you already told me you don’t play GTS my bad.