Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Scaff]

I should have added that getting the most out of a car is the hard part, even driving over the limits of grip in a lot of cars isn't hard, it's just slow.

Over the limit of a car (very slightly) is when a car has the most grip and is at its quickest.

Tyres, well specifically rubber, is odd stuff. They provide the most lateral grip, and are therefore quickest around a corner, when they are exceeding their slip angle limit by a few degrees.

Reaching that point, and doing so consistently, is not easy.

I think we also need to differentiate between the realistic limit of a car on a road and on a track. As they are not the same, different grades of tarmac, construction, rubber deposits, spilt fuel/oil, track width, radius, surface condition, etc.

These all combine to make the limit you reach on a track occur at a much higher speed than on a public road or carpark (ironicly until it rains, then its the other way around). Hitting the limit at a lower (road) speed is easier to feel, slower to occur, and easier to catch.

Those with AC can feel the difference between just a few of these factors by changing the surface from dusty to optimal and back again.

 

[mattikake]

As @Scaff has explained, this is normal behavior. You can tune it out but it won't make you faster. Anyone who learned how to drive FF cars in GTS need to re-learn them now because they behave more realistically.

I get how many people don't understand race car physics, but I don't get how they don't understand fwd road car physics when surely everyone has driven 1,000's of miles in them.

Try doing 120mph (on a private road) and stand on the brakes as hard as you can with the aim to get to 0. For fun, put some teeny tiny steering input in while you're braking... FWD physics seem spot on to me, it's just a matter of getting used to how that feels on the new ffb.

I do have concerns on that. I'm on ps4 and I've noticed significant frame rate drops several times now and I'm starting to think there is a processing delay in the ffb. It feels delayed and numb, with the car weight being too heavy, making rwd cars more tricky and race cars very unforgiving. Need that ps5 to be sure I guess.

I'm new to the fanatic dd pro. Should I try turning damping right down with a custom set or leave it to gt7?

 

[Scaff]

I get how many people don't understand race car physics, but I don't get how they don't understand fwd road car physics when surely everyone has driven 1,000's of miles in them.

Try doing 120mph (on a private road) and stand on the brakes as hard as you can with the aim to get to 0. For fun, put some teeny tiny steering input in while you're braking... FWD physics seem spot on to me, it's just a matter of getting used to how that feels on the new ffb.

The reason is that while many people have thousands of miles experience in FWD or even RWD cars, most haven't driven them consistently on the limit, and even fewer consistently on the limit on a track.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I get how many people don't understand race car physics, but I don't get how they don't understand fwd road car physics when surely everyone has driven 1,000's of miles in them.

Try doing 120mph (on a private road) and stand on the brakes as hard as you can with the aim to get to 0. For fun, put some teeny tiny steering input in while you're braking... FWD physics seem spot on to me, it's just a matter of getting used to how that feels on the new ffb.

I do have concerns on that. I'm on ps4 and I've noticed significant frame rate drops several times now and I'm starting to think there is a processing delay in the ffb. It feels delayed and numb, with the car weight being too heavy, making rwd cars more tricky and race cars very unforgiving. Need that ps5 to be sure I guess.

I'm new to the fanatic dd pro. Should I try turning damping right down with a custom set or leave it to gt7?

Fanatec have recommend settings on their forum and it’s a huge difference from the auto set. Better? Not sure, but very very different.

 

[JDMKING13]

I get how many people don't understand race car physics, but I don't get how they don't understand fwd road car physics when surely everyone has driven 1,000's of miles in them.

Try doing 120mph (on a private road) and stand on the brakes as hard as you can with the aim to get to 0. For fun, put some teeny tiny steering input in while you're braking... FWD physics seem spot on to me, it's just a matter of getting used to how that feels on the new ffb.

I do have concerns on that. I'm on ps4 and I've noticed significant frame rate drops several times now and I'm starting to think there is a processing delay in the ffb. It feels delayed and numb, with the car weight being too heavy, making rwd cars more tricky and race cars very unforgiving. Need that ps5 to be sure I guess.

I'm new to the fanatic dd pro. Should I try turning damping right down with a custom set or leave it to gt7?

I had a civic SI and one day I took the TCS off and the Stability control off… I almost had a heart attack when I was coming around a corner not crazy fast but with some speed hit the brakes and the rear kinda swung out on me.. I was shocked and it kinda shook me… I driven with TCS off but Stability control off is a different story. Never Agin did I touch that button!

 

[Grandi]

Overall this is a (massive?) step forward for GT. The general vibe brings to mind the 2010 GT Academy demo. Been a while since running anything on-track IRL, but for reference, I do some occasional RF2, iracing, ACC, AMS2, AC outside of GT.

• the suspension movement, weightyness, general pliability of cars feels so much better. I was driving dozens of laps with the 370Z around one of the short maggiore circuits just for the fun of it. Same with the A license tests with NSX/Supra. I never thought I’d prefer (a single) car in a GT game over similar ones in RF2, but the NSX-R is one example of such
• track detail has either been improved or is much better reflected on the suspension. Cars bottom out and get unsettled by curbs —forcing real consideration of which to attack
• race cars feel appropriately planted but also such that they don’t accept crazy abuse like they did in GTS. Yet to experience too many, looking fwd to eg the Gr2 machines
• the wet weather stuff feels terrific and I never imagined PD would go to such detail
• also never imagined I would enjoy FF cars this much, eg the integra is a joy

• clearly an issue with RWD limit behaviour as stated by many. However, in many cases I’ve found this to be very controllable (& enjoyable) but it depends heavily on how quickly the first feedback comes. E.g. golded the (edit: IB1) test first time but admittedly knew I would have to feather it. Which brings me to
• FFB is not terrible but often not nearly as communicative as I’d like, and I think this is contributing to some of the limit issues. T300RS here. FFB communication also quite car dependent but that’s the case with any sim

So, clearly things to improve (I thought @Scaff ’s statements were pretty reasonable wrt the limit behaviour) but somehow I’m massively positively surprised that PD have gone this route. Looking fwd to more cars now.

 

[mattikake]

Fanatec have recommend settings on their forum and it’s a huge difference from the auto set. Better? Not sure, but very very different.

Ooh, got a link?

Edit: think i found it.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Ooh, got a link?

There’s a thread on the sim racing hardware that’s probably worth following for our wheel as this is from there taken from Fanatec.

Although I have in game settings as 1 1. 5 is way too heavy for me. Plus with the feedback being a bit dull at the mOment it helps with small indicators.

 

[R3V]

Are you testing the car in free mode and if so what track?

I'm not deliberately testing that tbh. Just reporting what I encountered in every long radius corner (willow springs for example) in the game. I've tried literally keeping my steering and throttle constant (such that it accelerates), and the cars snap at a certain point at the same spots/speeds. Happened in Fuji, Barcelona and RBR as well.

Will give it a go tonight and see if it's the speed or a bump on the tracks. I really think it's the speed.

 

[Scaff]

Just had a thought ref the C7, which has adaptive suspension as an option.

We have no idea if PD modelled that, and if they did, what setting its based on.

I know from my own car, the difference between road and track biased setting are significant.

 

[JDMKING13]

Guys please look at your throttle inputs I know I already said this… but if you been playing GTS for years it’s gonna be hard to brake those habits… if you use wheel and pedals the travel you have to do in GT7 is wayyyyy shorter!! I notice while watching the throttle meter, barley hitting the throttle it showed as if I was giving the car a lot of power… I was actually shocked like damn… if I’m hitting it this soft and that meter that high maybe that’s why I was spinning out Violently… and it was the case… I’m thinking I’m going to have to get better pedals because hitting the throttle that soft feels weird to me… my gas pedal is too soft.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I'm not deliberately testing that tbh. Just reporting what I encountered in every long radius corner (willow springs for example) in the game. I've tried literally keeping my steering and throttle constant (such that it accelerates), and the cars snap at a certain point at the same spots/speeds. Happened in Fuji, Barcelona and RBR as well.

Will give it a go tonight and see if it's the speed or a bump on the tracks. I really think it's the speed.

Speed or track, with no feedback or indication it’s going to go it makes driving at the limit a guessing game.

 

[JDMKING13]

I'm not deliberately testing that tbh. Just reporting what I encountered in every long radius corner (willow springs for example) in the game. I've tried literally keeping my steering and throttle constant (such that it accelerates), and the cars snap at a certain point at the same spots/speeds. Happened in Fuji, Barcelona and RBR as well.

Will give it a go tonight and see if it's the speed or a bump on the tracks. I really think it's the speed.

What I’m trying to say is… say you had the vette in your actual garage I bet if you went around willow and took your time with the car around the track and slowly learned the limits you would start to drive it better! I did that challenge and the 370z challenge and bro I was shocked like… ain’t no way I’m this ass… I had to go a smoke break I was so madd… the Z is cheaper so I got that took it around the track with tcs on 1 at first got use to the car and the limits and now I don’t use TCS on it.. I mean it’s such a fun car to drive!!!

Basing your driving abilities on these licenses test or mission test is going to be kinda unfair… we are all coming from GTS which was a good game but had things which made the driving forgiving when you compare it to AC ACC.. we are all playing the new game with new physics in which I was not prepared for to be honestly. We are trying to master these cars in a quick sector pushing to the limits trying to obtain gold.. I think a lot of us got a wake up call in the fact we are going to have to learn these cars and how they perform lol. When you get a chance let me know how your testing session goes! If you don’t mind me asking what wheel do you use?

 

[Lord Protector]

You drive with your traction control off and stability control off when driving?

Of course. And sorry, I misspelled. I meant to say “there’s no way I can power oversteer in 2nd gear”.

The car just lacks torque in low-mid rpm, and in high-rpm you’re just going too fast to be able to spin out. What’s even more stupid is if you tune it to about 300hp in the game, you can’t even drive in a straight line in 4th gear with Racing tyres!…

 

[Taiga]

@RaceFace85 nice to hear from you again

I myself have an RX-8 and it’s not even debatable how broken the car is in GT7. For example, in real life, there’s no way I can’t power oversteer the car in 2nd gear under normal circumstances. In GT7? It’s easy to spin out even in 3rd gear no problem. My car - with regular Michelin Pilot Sport 4, which would should be ~Comford Soft - have much more grip then the car has in GT7 on Sport Soft tyres!! Which are like the best semi-slicks. This is insane and it’s driving me crazy.

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way -- the car never really ever could power over IRL, even with TCS DSC off and actively trying to induce oversteer by stabbing the throttle on corner exit (that said I am on Yokohama V105s, so they aren't too lacking of grip either).

I mimicked my car's suspension setting in the game and it was close to undriveable, breathing on the throttle in 1st-3rd just kicks the tail out in a very un-RX8-like snappy manner.

Even in the license with the 370Z at Tsukuba and 4C at Monza, the cars felt very bucky over the curbs, which was a surprise coming from GTS.

 

[JDMKING13]

Of course. And sorry, I misspelled. I meant to say “there’s no way I can power oversteer in 2nd gear”.

The car just lacks torque in low-mid rpm, and in high-rpm you’re just going too fast to be able to spin out. What’s even more stupid is if you tune it to about 300hp, you can’t even drive in a straight line in 4th gear with Racing tyres!…

Sheesh!! I gotta try that out.. you on wheel if you don’t mind me asking? I also truly believe you I’m just trying to figure out why is that happening?

 

[Lord Protector]

Sheesh!! I gotta try that out.. you on wheel if you don’t mind me asking? I also truly believe you I’m just trying to figure out why is that happening?

Yes, I’m using a T-GT. I’m thinking I’ll make a video of it in GT7. Hell, I would even make a comparison with real life if meant PD would fix this mess.

 

[JDMKING13]

Yes, I’m using a T-GT. I’m thinking I’ll make a video of it in GT7. Hell, I would even make a comparison with real life if meant PD would fix this mess.

Your firmware update also right.. I know when ACC drop the PS5 very I was so upset at the driving and they all were telling me to update my wheel… they were correct I had ver.30 when ver.34 was the updated firmware… which switch the wheel to PS5 mode.. soon as I did this ACC was back to its normal great feeling.. I’m about to get outta bed and try this out! Looking forward to your video if you make one.

 

[FordGTGuy]

The wet surface physics are horrendous; driving at 30 mph in rain is like driving a muscle car with bald tires on ice.

 

[sejtur]

The wet surface physics are horrendous; driving at 30 mph in rain is like driving a muscle car with bald tires on ice.

I'd suggest switching to intermediate or full wet tires.

 

[Lord Protector]

I'd suggest switching to intermediate or full wet tires.

I think he’s talking about regular cars and regular (comfort or sport) tyres. Do you drive with racing wets irl?

 

[FordGTGuy]

I'd suggest switching to intermediate or full wet tires.

While I appreciate the suggestion for in-game purposes, it is quite ridiculous how unrealistic wet driving is.

I did the license test with the modern Alpine and I couldn't even turn at 35 mph without my car trying to go sideways. I'd hate to see highways while it's raining in the GT universe... lol.

Honestly, I feel like the dry condition physics on RWD cars are closer to driving in the rain; the game needs a boost to traction in general.

I'm all gold up to IA-8; so I feel as if I have a bit of a foot to stand on with this.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Being a 1.6 NA MX5 owner as well as a NB and former NC owner, I can safely say the NA in the game is a pretty poor replica from a handling standpoint.
The real car is nowhere near as twitchy, even on all-season tires it is an extremely easy car to drive at and over the limit all day long.

I don't have any of my cars in the game but I can say the same. They all drive like they are ridding on something other than tyres. Grip loss is snappy, controlled inertia drift right on the edge or over the grip limit feels completely impossible, and ended I up doing V shapped trajectories in many cases, cause you can't roll the car into and out of a corner effectively. It just snaps all the time.

 

[Benny44]

While I appreciate the suggestion for in-game purposes, it is quite ridiculous how unrealistic wet driving is.

I did the license test with the modern Alpine and I couldn't even turn at 35 mph without my car trying to go sideways. I'd hate to see highways while it's raining in the GT universe... lol.

Honestly, I feel like the dry condition physics on RWD cars are closer to driving in the rain; the game needs a boost to traction in general.

I'm all gold up to IA-8; so I feel as if I have a bit of a foot to stand on with this.

A track surface is very different from a road surface generally. Scaff touched on that in an earlier post. And I think when we are gaming, we don't realize just HOW much harder we are pushing a car than we could ever get away with in real life.

 

[R3V]

Guys please look at your throttle inputs I know I already said this… but if you been playing GTS for years it’s gonna be hard to brake those habits… if you use wheel and pedals the travel you have to do in GT7 is wayyyyy shorter!! I notice while watching the throttle meter, barley hitting the throttle it showed as if I was giving the car a lot of power… I was actually shocked like damn… if I’m hitting it this soft and that meter that high maybe that’s why I was spinning out Violently… and it was the case… I’m thinking I’m going to have to get better pedals because hitting the throttle that soft feels weird to me… my gas pedal is too soft.

but the Suzuka right kink following degners 1&2 should be full throttle with some understeer. What we get in the game is what Super GT experienced in that video posted




Edit

This is like driving an F1 car with DRS open. Not that I've had the privilage to drive an F1 car, but you get the point.

 

[Lord Protector]

A track surface is very different from a road surface generally. Scaff touched on that in an earlier post. And I think when we are gaming, we don't realize just HOW much harder we are pushing a car than we could ever get away with in real life.

Really? I’m objectively pushing the same car less in GT7 because it’s simply not possible to push it as much as I can IRL. Far from it.

 

[sejtur]

While I appreciate the suggestion for in-game purposes, it is quite ridiculous how unrealistic wet driving is.

I did the license test with the modern Alpine and I couldn't even turn at 35 mph without my car trying to go sideways. I'd hate to see highways while it's raining in the GT universe... lol.

Honestly, I feel like the dry condition physics on RWD cars are closer to driving in the rain; the game needs a boost to traction in general.

I'm all gold up to IA-8; so I feel as if I have a bit of a foot to stand on with this.

I'll try that license test, that sounds really bad. On slicks in suzuka it was doable for me.

 

[FordGTGuy]

A track surface is very different from a road surface generally. Scaff touched on that in an earlier post. And I think when we are gaming, we don't realize just HOW much harder we are pushing a car than we could ever get away with in real life.

I agree that the road surface is different, but it is plainly unrealistic at such a low speed. I was feathering the accelerator; I was not even attempting WOT.

I'm not saying that it's wrong that the car is harder to control, I'm saying that it's absurd at such a low speed and with cars that have such little horsepower.

 

[sejtur]

I think he’s talking about regular cars and regular (comfort or sport) tyres. Do you drive with racing wets irl?

I'm afraid I don't have the funds to race IRL, so just all season tires for me.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I'm afraid I don't have the funds to race IRL, so just all season tires for me.

You're missing out on those time trials to Wendys at 3 AM.