Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT


  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
Just bought the RX-8 this morning and while I had to adjust to the car for 2 laps after that it was pretty much cake… the car doesn’t have the torque the 370z has so it was quite easy to drive…I Ran a 2:35.794 if anyone wants to do testing today I’m free all day I would like to see where we all are with a specific car… I know people were having trouble with it saying it just spins…

One thing I really like compared to GTS is how the car has to be balanced and any disruption will make the car go out of wack… this is not the case with GTS… and is more close to AC really emphasizing chassis balance..
 
Oh man, I must not have comprehended your first post on this page, and it hit me reading this one. Seems we're experiencing the same thing. I'll have to look into this as well.

And I even mentioned GT6 QM, which I recall scrapping with you a lot in there way back when! Good times.
Reading a lot of the replies in here, maybe we're in the 'not as good as we thought we were' camp and have been found out by GT7's ultra realistic handling?:P

My money is on a patch coming soon that replaces the weight that seems to be missing from cars.

Ah... The QM's... My first ever online races and if that's the name you used, I think I remember you. There's still a few of us pottering around this forum. :)
 
This reminds me a bit of Forza 7 and to some extent PCars 3, both of which required me to significantly reduce wheel response. I'm wondering if GT7's exaggerated oversteer is amplified by oversensitive steering as well.

Forcing my wheel into 1080 degree mode (as opposed to auto) does seem to make road cars in GT7 quite a bit more manageable although it's still doesn't feel quite right.
 
If you have GTS watch your tire diagram when you brake hard.. they will not turn red until the last moments of extremely hard braking… in GT7 your tires can turn red in a mere seconds from poor braking making the tires loose traction.. once the tires loose traction if you don’t back of the throttle or have the chassis in tune your spinning! This was nowhere near the case in Sport.. the tires would loose grip and would either recover quickly with small consequences or you would understeer still maintain complete chassis balance..

@xterno50 Im getting more feedback than I got In GTS.. not only can I feel the tires when they are at their limit, I can feel weight transfer from front to back and side to side… I think the cockpit camera movements help this sensation even more and helps me feel the car better. What wheel are you using ? What’s your wheel settings I’m at 3 torque and 1 sensitivity.
 
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After trying out a few more cars that I’ve raced in real life, I’m still really happy with how the physics are feeling. The BRZ feels very controllable and I had no problem catching slides. It felt a bit more tail happy than the car I raced but I was also running larger tires compared to stock so that may have something to do with that difference. Front wheel drive cars handle much more realistic compared to GTSport too. Now you actually have to worry about them rotating under braking which is great to see implemented. You’d be shocked at how sideways you can get a Honda Fit if you over drive the car.(Yes, I’ve driven a Honda Fit at the limit on track😂). Slightly off topic but for those of you looking for a fun budget track car, Honda fits are some of the most fun you can have on track, couldn’t wipe the smile off of my face after wringing one out on track for the first time. For the most part every comparable car to something I’ve driven at the limit in real life feels really close. There’s still a few areas to improve on the physics department for sure, but it’s definitely in the right direction.
 
To those who have driven high performance cars in real life (including me): it's not so easy to make direct comparisons. Yes, those who have real life track experience (including me), or those who have overdriven their road car (including me), have a good sense of what feels right or wrong. However, that experience does not translate 100% to a game because we armchair racers have likely never pushed the limit in real life, besides the few people who have posted here that do track racing as a hobby.

Besides 32 years of driving experience, 11 in North America and 21 in South America where I had some hairy but inconsequential moments on the same gravel stages present in the WRC, I had the pleasure of driving a Ferrari 488 GTB on a racetrack. My real world + sim racing knowledge helped me immensely to attack the track in that beast, but I knew I was leaving massive amounts of time on the table. There were two forces holding me back: the physical abuse that the g-forces were causing, and the very real threat of death or serious injury. Those are two things you will never be able to model in a racing sim.

I do believe that some of the RWD cars are too skittish, however it is extremely difficult for most of us with real-world experience to make a valid comparison while invoking the caveat "I drove x car and this kind of stuff doesn't happen". There is a world of variables such as tires, assist settings, driving style and atmospheric conditions, not to mention the fact that a lot of people (including me) are not pushing the limit in their real world car no matter how brave they think they are.

My Ferrari instructor would not allow me to take the car out of sport mode which is the mode that has minimal TC and ABS; it was made clear that if I turned off assists the car was stopped and my session was immediately finished.

In a nutshell, if you don't have the balls to take your real car and crash it while pushing the limit you also don't have the authority to say "x or y car shouldn't step out in z situation". There are a precious few human beings on this planet that have been on the limit in the cars we drive in videogame car simulators. We don't know jack. We like to think we know, but we don't. Because g-forces and the threat of death hold us back in real life. So no matter what car we own in real life I doubt many of us here have ever driven that car to its true limits.

Gran Turismo has always been oversteery and the more I play GT7 the more I accept that. It's been like this since day one in 1997. Let's just get over this and move on before PD ruins the physics because a bunch of armchair racers (including me) can't stop whining.
While I don't have real world experience. I don't see why testing the limits of a car couldn't be safely done. A large tarmac pad with painted or coned corners could let you safely try hit the limits of a car without fear of crashing into a barrier. But agreed that this would be difficult to compare to a game.
 
Even if we accept that the losing control is realistic, we need to have some indication that it’s happening so we can correct it. Just killing you immediately makes pushing to the limit a matter of guesswork or muscle memory.
Maybe try smoothing your inputs a bit, it’s super easy to over drive cars in a sim. Personally I’m not having any issues with loosing control though. The only times I’ve ran into that problem is when I’m over driving the car.
 
I bumped controller sensitivity down a notch from 0 to -1 and it helps a lot to smooth the inputs. Feels better in all the cars. I am going to experiment at -2 as well. At first it seemed too sluggish but I need a couple hours with it to test properly. Using Fanatec wheel.
 
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I bumped controller sensitivity down a notch from 0 to -1 and it helps a lot to smooth the inputs. Feels better in all the cars. I am going to experiment at -2 as well. At first it seemed too sluggish but I need a couple hours with it to test properly. Using Fanatec wheel.
Isn't that option only for controllers?
 
Isn't that option only for controllers?
It's not clear. In GTS it was only for controller and clearly stated that in the menu. This time it mentions "wireless controller" but does not say it's only for controller.

It definitely works on wheels. A good place to test is license B-6 with that ridiculous Nissan Z. The difference is noticeable.
 
It's not clear. In GTS it was only for controller and clearly stated that in the menu. This time it mentions "wireless controller" but does not say it's only for controller.

It definitely works on wheels. A good place to test is license B-6 with that ridiculous Nissan Z. The difference is noticeable.
Noticeable how? What does it change?
 
Even if we accept that the losing control is realistic, we need to have some indication that it’s happening so we can correct it. Just killing you immediately makes pushing to the limit a matter of guesswork or muscle memory.
While I hear what your saying.. I’m not making up the fact the feedback is better in GT7 than Sport… You can actually feel when the car is going to control not only through the tires but also with the weight balance through the chassis… In GTS the physics were not this dynamic at all.. while you might call it guess work I can actually feel the road and the car way better vs GTS… I just did an hour race last night and we were all just discussing how we wanted to get back GT7 because the driving is so much better.

Also the jump to production cars vs my GT500 Supra is a crazy noticeable step up on performance and feedback the from the wheel the downforce feels crazy! I need to get an up to date GT3 to see if it’s a difference but I’m cheap…
 
I think brake temps might be simulated when you fit road cars with race brakes, I did the European FR 550 race at Red Bull Ring in an E30 that had race brakes fitted. For about 3/4 of the first lap the brakes felt like they're weren't working to their best yet.

As a whole, the physics feel a lot more detailed than GT Sport save for the odd MR race car with broken physics (bizarre amounts of lift off oversteer)
 
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Another point I will make let’s say we did a track day in here 7 laps at Tsukuba in your favorite production car (Stock form) I would seriously run traction control on for the entire event! That would give me insurance I would complete the race safely. This is a great thing for the GT series in my opinion.. I always felt like the cars felt better in GTS than any other GT game but felt short of being in that category with the AC/ACC. In those titles you kinda gotta use those electronic aids to help you because you pay big time for mistakes. I am getting this sensation with GT7… sometimes I’m using TC because it just gives me confidence during these events. Is TC off doable Yes… is it a pain in the butt hell yea!
 
I'll tell you one thing GT7 gets wrong... normal tyre physics. The comfort tyres are back to being ice (GT Sport didn't have this)
The licence test with the Civic just not gripping at what are standard motorway speeds and the 200SXs back end whipping loose on a wet corner at the mental speed of 35mph... these simply do not happen in the real world because I've driven both those cars and more powerful stuff and much more unroad worthy stuff and dodgy tyres that do not crash at such low speeds.



So what's going on with GT7 and its hard on for making Comfort tyres comedically bad.
 
So what's going on with GT7 and its hard on for making Comfort tyres comedically bad.
Have you ever driven a Toyota Camry to the limit on factory all-season tires? They are comedically bad.

The number of people refusing to adapt their driving styles is also comedic. Learning this new game is no different than jumping in various real cars and learning how they handle at the limit.

I'm fine with the wet racing physics being slippery as they would be in real life but the AI should at least react like they're driving on the same surface. Earlier on I was driving a 4WD car round Suzuka and was about 6 seconds in the lead when it started to rain. So I bumped up the TCS to 3 and was being as smooth as I can with the pad - I never lost control, just got a little twitchy now and then. Meanwhile the 2nd place AI controlled RWD car on the same tyres (on Normal difficulty) was catching up to me at a pace of 3 seconds per lap. This is the same AI car that was previously going super slow through corners in the dry and braking when it didn't need to. Something doesn't feel right.
I think Super GT mentioned in his review, or perhaps in Nurb video, that the AI is considerably more effective in the wet for some reason. Hilariously that sort of emulates real people when it starts raining - driving like grannies on a perfectly dry day but pushing the limits of their Toyota Sienna in the rain. Does the UK have the same idiotic people-crashing-into-everything problem when it starts raining as the US does?
 
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I'll tell you one thing GT7 gets wrong... normal tyre physics. The comfort tyres are back to being ice (GT Sport didn't have this)
The licence test with the Civic just not gripping at what are standard motorway speeds and the 200SXs back end whipping loose on a wet corner at the mental speed of 35mph... these simply do not happen in the real world because I've driven both those cars and more powerful stuff and much more unroad worthy stuff and dodgy tyres that do not crash at such low speeds.



So what's going on with GT7 and its hard on for making Comfort tyres comedically bad.
Sport didn’t have these dynamic physics GT7 has though… things that you didn’t have to worry about in GTS you HAVE to take inconsideration in GT7… the hour race we did on GTS last night was in the rain and we were laughing because it felt like tarmac compared to GT7 it was terrible… we still had a blast though! I have already put comfort tires on my 370z and it feels fine… I’m not saying your not having trouble but to say they got the comfort tires wrong because you are having trouble my be harsh in my opinion..
 
I don’t have a problem with the physics, but I do wonder if the perceived weirdness is to do with a gravity setting. The way the cars fly when they hit a rumble strip/sausage and the way the rally cars fly so high does make me wonder.
Don't think it's gravity being incorrect, that's highly unlikely, it's more likely to be the damper rebound settings on the cars are too low by default, try doubling them and see if it makes a difference, and play with the roll bars at extremes. Play with all the settings in the suspension especially. As with any gran turismo game after the Ps2 era, updates to physics and tyres will definitely be coming to sort it out as they've never launched a single Mainline GT title with perfect physics...

In regards to GT Sport, they also had updates that changed the grip of cars/tyres and weight transfer later on
an the old porsche's "chassis grip" was increased for example via a later update.
 
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Have you ever driven a Toyota Camry to the limit on factory all-season tires? They are comedically bad.

The number of people refusing to adapt their driving styles is also comedic. Learning this new game is no different than jumping in various real cars and learning how they handle at the limit.
We're not refusing to adapt, we're simply pointing out to the fact that real road cars don't drive like that...
 
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To those who have driven high performance cars in real life (including me): it's not so easy to make direct comparisons. Yes, those who have real life track experience (including me), or those who have overdriven their road car (including me), have a good sense of what feels right or wrong. However, that experience does not translate 100% to a game because we armchair racers have likely never pushed the limit in real life, besides the few people who have posted here that do track racing as a hobby.

Besides 32 years of driving experience, 11 in North America and 21 in South America where I had some hairy but inconsequential moments on the same gravel stages present in the WRC, I had the pleasure of driving a Ferrari 488 GTB on a racetrack. My real world + sim racing knowledge helped me immensely to attack the track in that beast, but I knew I was leaving massive amounts of time on the table. There were two forces holding me back: the physical abuse that the g-forces were causing, and the very real threat of death or serious injury. Those are two things you will never be able to model in a racing sim.

I do believe that some of the RWD cars are too skittish, however it is extremely difficult for most of us with real-world experience to make a valid comparison while invoking the caveat "I drove x car and this kind of stuff doesn't happen". There is a world of variables such as tires, assist settings, driving style and atmospheric conditions, not to mention the fact that a lot of people (including me) are not pushing the limit in their real world car no matter how brave they think they are.

My Ferrari instructor would not allow me to take the car out of sport mode which is the mode that has minimal TC and ABS; it was made clear that if I turned off assists the car was stopped and my session was immediately finished.

In a nutshell, if you don't have the balls to take your real car and crash it while pushing the limit you also don't have the authority to say "x or y car shouldn't step out in z situation". There are a precious few human beings on this planet that have been on the limit in the cars we drive in videogame car simulators. We don't know jack. We like to think we know, but we don't. Because g-forces and the threat of death hold us back in real life. So no matter what car we own in real life I doubt many of us here have ever driven that car to its true limits.

Gran Turismo has always been oversteery and the more I play GT7 the more I accept that. It's been like this since day one in 1997. Let's just get over this and move on before PD ruins the physics because a bunch of armchair racers (including me) can't stop whining.
You see the handling issues even more when you compare low torque rwd cars like a RX-8 or GT86. In the real world you get understeering when you go full throttle mid corner when you are in 2. gear or higher. The grip under acceleration with the weight on the rear tyres is just higher than the torque that is needed to produce wheelspin.

In GT7 you get crazy oversteering even when you are in 3. gear with the RX-8 without doing crazy movements with the steering wheel.

When you compare high torque cars that have no problem to produce wheelspin even in higher gears you don't see any issues.

A game menu that is just designed for casual players and a handling that is even harder than in real life doesn't fit together.

I stopped playing the game until the handling is fixed because I was so shocked when I drove the RX-8 when I realized how wrong the physics of the real driving simulator are. Harder doesn't mean more realisitic and doesn't mean more fun.
 
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Okay, I think I'm starting to see what people are talking about. I'm on license test A-7 with the BMW at Catalunya and none of how this car drives really makes sense. Doesn't make it any less fun, I guess, but I don't know why I'd spin with no chance of recovery; especially at these speeds.
IIRC there was another GT title with a complaint of low grip at low speeds in regards to destabilizing the physics engine. For GT7 This will be likely fixed in an update.
 
So now that I’m deep into golding the license tests on PS4 using a DS4 and no aids, I’ve come to a conclusion.

The tuning of the inputs must be VERY different for gamepad and steering wheel. I’m not having much difficulty at all, and in fact the cars are behaving more appropriately, more predictably, and the controller inputs seem much more direct and appropriate than they were in GTS. It’s a challenge but it’s doable and very rewarding.

I assume the tuning for steering wheels is basically just 1:1, i.e. the game only gives you what you put in, i.e. if you want to control oversteer you actually have to turn the wheel lol. It’s like a self-imposed hard mode and it makes a lot of sense to me.

I also think this oversteer “problem” people are discussing is a myth. I’m not having any trouble on gamepad at all. Everything I’m seeing is a direct result of riding a car on the limit, and since none of us are enjoying an actual seat-of-the-pants sensation, the limit is very easy to approach and exceed. I’d wager that most of our instincts are actually to exceed the limit which is why Super GT or Ollie get on there and instantly spin out on the rain. Well no ****, it’s raining, but they’re not feeling the sense of delicacy that you can feel in the seat of a real car.

I do expect PD to update this behavior because there are so many complaints but I personally, on gamepad, am not seeing a problem that can’t be fixed with sticky tires, tuning, and a bit of aero, all of which are tools that race cars use to eliminate the instabilities of road cars. We do have wings in the game now after all.

Edit: Also I think muscle memory plays a roll. The most advanced drivers on GTS play often, are precise, and have a lot of expectations for each car and each track. Throw a new system at them and it forces a difficult re-learning process. I think most of us won’t suffer from that problem and will be able to adapt quicker, but obviously we’ll likely still never reach the ceiling of those more advanced players.
If you want to reproduce the issue of another player, you will have to have the same car tuned identically, the same track, number of AI and weather conditions and the same console. Too many variables otherwise, count yourself lucky you haven't run into a glaring issue yet.
 
Have you ever driven a Toyota Camry to the limit on factory all-season tires? They are comedically bad.
No I get that, but they're not undrivable at standard every day speeds. I'm talking your car feeling loose and floaty at 70-80mph

Sport didn’t have these dynamic physics GT7 has though… things that you didn’t have to worry about in GTS you HAVE to take inconsideration in GT7… the hour race we did on GTS last night was in the rain and we were laughing because it felt like tarmac compared to GT7 it was terrible… we still had a blast though! I have already put comfort tires on my 370z and it feels fine… I’m not saying your not having trouble but to say they got the comfort tires wrong because you are having trouble my be harsh in my opinion..

The thing is GT5 and 6 seemed to have the icy feeling comfort tyres. But then GT Sport seemed to have them with low grip but not undriveable like they seem to have returned to with GT7.

Like I said the 200SX was like a loose drift car at 40mph. It just seems to be overly floaty on comfort tyres. Like I say it just means I have to start from scratch driving slowly so the car doesn't dive violently sideways or around. But after the hours I could play GT Sport GT7 is proving very frustrating.
I'm hoping it's just some wheel settings I'm not doing because I've gone from enjoying driving the quick stuff and enjoying the challenge to struggling to handle a Polo GTi. That's seems an unnatural step backwards.
 
No I get that, but they're not undrivable at standard every day speeds. I'm talking your car feeling loose and floaty at 70-80mph



The thing is GT5 and 6 seemed to have the icy feeling comfort tyres. But then GT Sport seemed to have them with low grip but not undriveable like they seem to have returned to with GT7.

Like I said the 200SX was like a loose drift car at 40mph. It just seems to be overly floaty on comfort tyres. Like I say it just means I have to start from scratch driving slowly so the car doesn't dive violently sideways or around. But after the hours I could play GT Sport GT7 is proving very frustrating.
I'm hoping it's just some wheel settings I'm not doing because I've gone from enjoying driving the quick stuff and enjoying the challenge to struggling to handle a Polo GTi. That's seems an unnatural step backwards.
Have you done the old muscle cars yet?
 
No I get that, but they're not undrivable at standard every day speeds. I'm talking your car feeling loose and floaty at 70-80mph



The thing is GT5 and 6 seemed to have the icy feeling comfort tyres. But then GT Sport seemed to have them with low grip but not undriveable like they seem to have returned to with GT7.

Like I said the 200SX was like a loose drift car at 40mph. It just seems to be overly floaty on comfort tyres. Like I say it just means I have to start from scratch driving slowly so the car doesn't dive violently sideways or around. But after the hours I could play GT Sport GT7 is proving very frustrating.
I'm hoping it's just some wheel settings I'm not doing because I've gone from enjoying driving the quick stuff and enjoying the challenge to struggling to handle a Polo GTi. That's seems an unnatural step backwards.
As I told other if your judging yourself off of a license test your setting yourself up… you’re
pushing hard trying to obtain a goal… instead if you were in free mode learning the car you probably would find the limits easier… I myself am having trouble with the license test because the nature of going to fast to get the gold… that’s why I use TCS some times… It is very easy to over drive in GT7 especially if your basing your prospective on GTS…
 
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