Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[MadmuppGT]

As I told other if your judging yourself off of a license test your setting yourself up… you’re
pushing hard trying to obtain a goal… instead if you were in free mode learning the car you probably would find the limits easier… I myself am having trouble with the license test because the nature of going to fast to get the gold… that’s why I use TCS some times… It is very easy to over drive in GT7 especially if your basing your prospective on GTS…

How do you find the brakes? Sometimes I smoothly press the pedal and the car dives to the right like its been punted by a passing car. Or the car simply doesn't seem to slow down at all.

Its weird... never had this problem with GT Sport... and if I did it was usually my own doing by being reckless. But GT7 seems to punish me even when driving as carefully as Driving Miss Daisy.

 

[wheelhp]

It is not a myth. I have gold in every license test up to IA6 using a T300 wheel. I understand that it is possible to control the cars. Despite this, I can attest that the snap oversteer problem is real.

Fundamentally, it should not be easier to control a Group C car flat out through the Porsches curves than it is to drive a road legal Corvette through a large radius turn at 100kmh without spinning.

It could be a number of issues, but here are my completely random guesses for now, completely hypothetical, but all or one may be at play:

• FR drivetrain on a certain tyre compund causing issues
• FR drivetrain without downforce causing issues
• Stock Differential and/or it's decel value causing issues
• Suspension geometry simulation, instability
  • Toe angle going in and out of alignment
  • Possibly something wack with Double Wishbone suspensions
• Spring rate instability
• Wheel rate instability
• Damper instability
• Bump stop simulation instability
• Something in Track surface grip changing, causing further instability in RWD cars
• Downforce in race cars mask the snap oversteer problem to an extent, but it seems unmasked more in road cars which have little downforce by comparison.
• Downforce and areodynamic lift simulation inconsistencies and/or instability of the simulation
• Specific Tyre, Tyre model getting unstable under certain weather and/or load conditions, defaulting to low grip for a nanosecond
• Physics engine framerate/hz being overworked/sacrificed to maintain steady graphics framerates.
• Weight transfer instability

 

[MadmuppGT]

Have you done the old muscle cars yet?

Not yet... why is it bad?

 

[JDMKING13]

How do you find the brakes? Sometimes I smoothly press the pedal and the car dives to the right like its been punted by a passing car. Or the car simply doesn't seem to slow down at all.

Its weird... never had this problem with GT Sport... and if I did it was usually my own doing by being reckless. But GT7 seems to punish me even when driving as carefully as Driving Miss Daisy.

Braking is also tricky have you seen the feedback on what people are saying how lively FF cars are now under hard braking? The rear steps out now this was not the case for GTS.. one problem I’m having and I think others might be having is the inputs are a lot more sensitive.. I was told we have both a liner brake and throttle now… I can be on my pedals slightly and the input I’m seeing on the meter is way more than it would be in GTS.. like a lot more, it’s a huge difference.. I think this is also catching people off guard… if your going off muscle memory on your inputs on GTS is going to screw you up on GT7.

During hard braking being in a straight line is more crucial in my option… the elevation changes on the track disrupts the car chassis way more in GT7 than GTS I can feel this all through my wheel… it’s not AC style feedback and yes it could be better, but it’s headed in the right direction in my opinion!

 

[Lord Protector]

Harder doesn't mean more realisitic and doesn't mean more fun.

And shocking is also the fact that Kaz said this, while making people hate cars for constantly trying to kill them in GT7

 

[BigSarj]

As I told other if your judging yourself off of a license test your setting yourself up… you’re
pushing hard trying to obtain a goal… instead if you were in free mode learning the car you probably would find the limits easier… I myself am having trouble with the license test because the nature of going to fast to get the gold… that’s why I use TCS some times… It is very easy to over drive in GT7 especially if your basing your prospective on GTS…

This is something I've been considering, too. I'm still early (menu 15 or so) but this usually happens when I tell myself to push it. As much as I think it is a bit off, I will say that it has been educational. I'm now doing the Camaro at Northern Isle mission challenge and I'm learning to maximize my throttle usage under very slippery conditions.

And, yes, I realize those are comfort mediums on an oval at night.

 

[Ske]

I bumped controller sensitivity down a notch from 0 to -1 and it helps a lot to smooth the inputs. Feels better in all the cars. I am going to experiment at -2 as well. At first it seemed too sluggish but I need a couple hours with it to test properly. Using Fanatec wheel.

Tested -2 to +7 and didn't notice any difference personally (B-6, GT DD Pro, PS5 mode)

 

[grandtourismo]

does anyone have a problem with AWD cars too? in particular my Focus RS seems to be uncontrollable even on racing softs, could it be wide bodies ruining the cars?

 

[4everdelayed]

You see the handling issues even more when you compare low torque rwd cars like a RX-8 or GT86. In the real world you get understeering when you go full throttle mid corner when you are in 2. gear or higher.

I think we should make a distinction here. There's "wheelspin" and then there's "oversteer/sliding/getting loose". On a track, the 86 will not have wheelspin in 3rd gear but it will absolutely get massively loose in 3rd gear in certain circumstances.

I think most people seem to have issues with getting loose in corners which is actually very normal when taking corners at highway speeds. In the license tests, cars that do have a lot of wheelspin (Supra, C63, Mustang, AMG GTR, etc.) also have a lot of torque and Sport Hard tires, so that seems logical to me as well.

Please give it a chance. It's barely been two days, so it is not reasonable to expect to get the hang of it right away. At some point it will click and it will feel natural.

I think the license test with the Mustang on Trial Mountain was actually really good for people to learn how get into that sort of "slidy" rhythm. I loved the AC Cobra/no ABS/CH tires lobbies back on GT5, so it was easy for me to find the right rhythm quickly in some GT7 license tests, but it is really all just a matter of getting familiar with that way of driving. Give it a bit of time.

 

[fortbo]

I think we should make a distinction here. There's "wheelspin" and then there's "oversteer/sliding/getting loose". On a track, the 86 will not have wheelspin in 3rd gear but it will absolutely get massively loose in 3rd gear in certain circumstances.

I think most people seem to have issues with getting loose in corners which is actually very normal when taking corners at highway speeds. In the license tests, cars that do have a lot of wheelspin (Supra, C63, Mustang, AMG GTR, etc.) also have a lot of torque and Sport Hard tires, so that seems logical to me as well.

Please give it a chance. It's barely been two days, so it is not reasonable to expect to get the hang of it right away. At some point it will click and it will feel natural.

I think the license test with the Mustang on Trial Mountain was actually really good for people to learn how get into that sort of "slidy" rhythm. I loved the AC Cobra/no ABS/CH tires lobbies back on GT5, so it was easy for me to find the right rhythm quickly in some GT7 license tests, but it is really all just a matter of getting familiar with that way of driving. Give it a bit of time.

I’ve gotten a BRZ loose on track a few times in the 2nd and 3rd gear. You can definitely spin out doing that too. @RaceFace85 did you fully turn off all of the driver aids when you drove the 86GT in real life? You have to do a pedal sequence, it’s really annoying but it’s the only way to full disable all driver aids. If you don’t do that then it would definitely just understeer like you said in real life if you go full throttle mid corner, but with all assists turned off that’s just not the case.

Edit: here’s a good example of how easy it is to get these cars loose from when I raced one at PPIR. Go to around the 1 minute mark

 

[JDMKING13]

I think we should make a distinction here. There's "wheelspin" and then there's "oversteer/sliding/getting loose". On a track, the 86 will not have wheelspin in 3rd gear but it will absolutely get massively loose in 3rd gear in certain circumstances.

I think most people seem to have issues with getting loose in corners which is actually very normal when taking corners at highway speeds. In the license tests, cars that do have a lot of wheelspin (Supra, C63, Mustang, AMG GTR, etc.) also have a lot of torque and Sport Hard tires, so that seems logical to me as well.

Please give it a chance. It's barely been two days, so it is not reasonable to expect to get the hang of it right away. At some point it will click and it will feel natural.

I think the license test with the Mustang on Trial Mountain was actually really good for people to learn how get into that sort of "slidy" rhythm. I loved the AC Cobra/no ABS/CH tires lobbies back on GT5, so it was easy for me to find the right rhythm quickly in some GT7 license tests, but it is really all just a matter of getting familiar with that way of driving. Give it a bit of time.

I was saying that! The chassis balance is a higher factor now… you get that outta wack it normally disrupts the tires thus sending you off the track. Even In GTS once you disrupt the chassis The worst that’s going to happen is you understeer which still keeps your car alive just disrupts your lap time.

 

[BigSarj]

Did anyone else have a more difficult time with the Magic Mountain mission challenge 2? The Porsche at High Speed Ring. That, to me, was the hardest challenge of this set and it was only the second one. I think it's meant to be easier than that.

 

[HarVee]

I think most people seem to have issues with getting loose in corners which is actually very normal when taking corners at highway speeds.

I've never once had my two daily drivers (M4, Town Car) get lose while driving at 60 mph, the highway speed around here.

 

[JDMKING13]

I've never once had my two daily drivers (M4, Town Car) get lose while driving at 60 mph, the highway speed around here.

You drive your M4 with all the electronic aids off also?

 

[HarVee]

You drive your M4 with all the electronic aids off also?

They're set to whatever the factory setting is. I've never really been one to tinker around with my M4 as I'm still paying it off and don't want to risk voiding any warranty.

 

[barak181]

This is something I've been considering, too. I'm still early (menu 15 or so) but this usually happens when I tell myself to push it. As much as I think it is a bit off, I will say that it has been educational. I'm now doing the Camaro at Northern Isle mission challenge and I'm learning to maximize my throttle usage under very slippery conditions.

And, yes, I realize those are comfort mediums on an oval at night.

One thing I will say about that Camaro oval race: If it gets stupid frustrating, back out and reload the mission. I had done it something like 5-6 times finishing 2nd or 3rd, occasionally with times faster than my friends list that had won the event. I reload, get a different grid and win it fairly easily the first try.

 

[BigSarj]

One thing I will say about that Camaro oval race: If it gets stupid frustrating, back out and reload the mission. I had done it something like 5-6 times finishing 2nd or 3rd, occasionally with times faster than my friends list that had won the event. I reload, get a different grid and win it fairly easily the first try.

I was fine on it. I liked the grid I had. The Stingray at the front was living on the edge.

The final Fiat 500 one is proving to be more entertaining than I thought it would.

 

[Pfei]

Tested -2 to +7 and didn't notice any difference personally (B-6, GT DD Pro, PS5 mode)

That's surprising. I could tell immediately turning into the right hander in the beginning. I went right through the turn because my steering angle was no longer sufficient to make the corner. I have to rotate the wheel a bit more. And the fast left hander is less twitchy. I just played for an hour on -2 and like it even better.

 

[Skinny McLean]

Tested -2 to +7 and didn't notice any difference personally (B-6, GT DD Pro, PS5 mode)

I remember several people who swore it had an effect back in GT Sport too. I tested it, but also couldn't feel any difference at all. Holding the look back button in chase cam mode while rapidly turning the wheel from side to side (EDIT: and looking at the front tyres) also didn't show any effect . And it makes no sense to me why they should filter wheel users input like that. I haven't checked it out in GT7 though.

And regarding the tyre physics I agree something's wrong. You shouldn't have to tip-toe around corners like that, at least that's not how it works on the more hardcore PC sims I play.

Nonetheless, I found the license tests quite fun. I golded all to IA8 or 9, I think (the ones with Mik Hizal as "bubble face") before I went to sleep. I had most trouble with the rally tracks, that mode is somehow even more weird than it was in GT Sport. Another thing I found strange is how in GTS we could feel the kerbs in the FFB while the car didn't seem to care. In GT7 it's the opposite - you can't feel a thing, but it upsets the car massively.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Got a conspiracy theory here…


I’m a cockpit view only guy. Absolute first thing I noticed was how much more dynamic the physics of the cockpit view were… and how much better perspective it gave me over what the car was doing compared to other views. While GT’s cockpit view isn’t on par with the likes of ACC Or PC2, it’s noticeably better. Makes me wonder if PD is trying to persuade people into cockpit view in the name of realism. Much like ACC is made to be driven from inside the car.

Although the sense of speed is greatly improved I’m this latest iteration of Gran Turismo, it’s still not great compared to other titles. 85mph in this game still feels nothing like real life.

When I got my PSVR for GTS, I was a good sold 1-1.5 seconds off my normal lap times (sometimes even being further off), because the VR set put you in the car and you would literally feel 60% of the sensations you would feel IRL. The sense of speed in a VR set was very real, and I couldn’t drive as fast as I normally could in pancake view. I had no clue how steep that first turn drop off at Brands Hatch was until I strapped on that set. I’m thinking that these physics, are also taking into account the inevitable VR expansion this game will have. While there is something that needs to be done about the grip on FR cars that are not equipped with racing cars, the body movements and suspension articulation of these road cars is spot on.

The more time I spend with this gane, the more I’m taking to the physics. My only gripe is I wish the braking cones were reimplemented instead of these stupid braking zones. Other than that, this game is absolutely gorgeous. So polished, so well done. This by far, is the apotheosis of Kaz’s 25+ years with this franchise. I feel very lucky to be playing it

 

[theluke]

My 2p about the physics:

T300 User

I am really enjoying the cars when they are under the boundary of grip, the racecars I have driven feel really good. The GT500 Supra feels like a dream.

The tuned road cars are an absolute nightmare, I have drifted cars in real life and own a Silvia, I know what oversteer feels like. Past the limit is just insanely uncontrollable for the most part. I have tuned a 997 GT3 to roughtly cup spec, I, 380bhp, 1200 kg, slicks etc. and even with the downforce on the rear at 100% the thing still has a nervous rear at high speed, im talking undrivable. I had to set the rear suspension to full soft to get it not to throw me off the track, which makes it handle terrible.

I have also been fine tuning a clubsport spec E46 M3 over many races with the same nervous, unpredictable rear. I cannot tune it out of the car. I have tried everything, I can feel myself losing laptime hand over fist because of the rear. I have had to bias the brakes hugely at the front to give it more stabillity under braking.

Nervous rear in the R32 I have tuned aswell despite being 4WD. I also had an issue with it not being able to make a hairpin turn apparently being caused by having wide tires on a non widebody vehicle.

On all of these cars the rear is unstable braking, on throttle and off throttleand in the porsches case it feels like it has no wing on the back at high speed.

Before anyone stars with "you dont know how to tune" or you are being too heavy with the throttle" or "thats just lift off understeer, I do, and im not and I how a car is meant to handle and its not like this.

Also, Im not sure the tuning is working correctly, the stabillity limit is backwards, it shows s a negative value for most cars (which is oversteer, or under stable) but when you tune to make oversteer worse it brings it more positive.

 

[tofuhero]

Braking is also tricky have you seen the feedback on what people are saying how lively FF cars are now under hard braking? The rear steps out now this was not the case for GTS..

I was driving the 2005 MINI Cooper S last night and if I didn't brake completely straight the back would swing out. Now I own almost this same model in real life, driven it for years. I've driven it through canyons at..."spirited" speeds, in the rain, mud, just about anything except snow. I have never once had the back swing out violently like the GT version does. And I don't really remember that being in the case in GT Sport, either.

 

[Superhero Wally]

does anyone have a problem with AWD cars too? in particular my Focus RS seems to be uncontrollable even on racing softs, could it be wide bodies ruining the cars?

I'm not sure. I haven't done any wide body mods yet. I do find it interesting that the missions are non-contact, then you get to the GT-R mission, on what seems like a bobsled track, in Tokyo, and anything goes

 

[JDMKING13]

I was driving the 2005 MINI Cooper S last night and if I didn't brake completely straight the back would swing out. Now I own almost this same model in real life, driven it for years. I've driven it through canyons at..."spirited" speeds, in the rain, mud, just about anything except snow. I have never once had the back swing out violently like the GT version does. And I don't really remember that being in the case in GT Sport, either.

Do you also turn off your all your electronic aids when driving?

 

[tofuhero]

Do you also turn off your all your electronic aids when driving?

I drive with all assists off but put traction control on 1 usually. On my real MINI I always have the stability control turned off unless it's raining.

 

[FordGTGuy]

While traction control definitely makes a difference in real life; it does not make a 250 HP car go from controllable to an uncontrollable mess by not having it on.

I think the problem most people are having is with low HP cars acting like they have the most bald tires ever put on a car.

 

[HarVee]

Makes me wonder if PD is trying to persuade people into cockpit view in the name of realism.

The cockpit does feel more immersive than ever before, but I still can't get to grips with it because of the camera wobbling. I'm used to the static or 'fixed' view of the previous GTs that cockpit view in 7 feels like an entirely different experience than before.

 

[Jump_Ace]

It could be a number of issues, but here are my completely random guesses for now, completely hypothetical, but all or one may be at play:

• FR drivetrain on a certain tyre compund causing issues
• FR drivetrain without downforce causing issues
• Stock Differential and/or it's decel value causing issues
• Suspension geometry simulation, instability
  • Toe angle going in and out of alignment
  • Possibly something wack with Double Wishbone suspensions
• Spring rate instability
• Wheel rate instability
• Damper instability
• Bump stop simulation instability
• Something in Track surface grip changing, causing further instability in RWD cars
• Downforce in race cars mask the snap oversteer problem to an extent, but it seems unmasked more in road cars which have little downforce by comparison.
• Downforce and areodynamic lift simulation inconsistencies and/or instability of the simulation
• Specific Tyre, Tyre model getting unstable under certain weather and/or load conditions, defaulting to low grip for a nanosecond
• Physics engine framerate/hz being overworked/sacrificed to maintain steady graphics framerates.
• Weight transfer instability

I'm gonna play with the in-game settings too tonight and see if it helps. I'm referring to the FFB Max Torque & FFB Sensitivity. I doubt it'll make a difference, but I'll try playing with those settings and see.


Jerome

 

[Haitauer]

Maybe this is a suspension extension issue. Rally cars bounce off the ground like they dont have weight or the rebound/extension of the suspension doesnt absorbe the rebound. This would also lead to suspension actually escalating the weight transfers instead of absorbing/suppressing it and further to weight coming of the tires unnaturally and making the tires almost "float" in grip level modelling. Instead of suppressed extension we get similar effect to driving over a bump that actually "throws" also the unsprung mass - the axels and tires, off the ground instead of just transfering the sprung mass to other side.

Edit. This might also be an issue in tire flex / bouncing back to form after flex/being pressed.

 

[MadmuppGT]

I've never once had my two daily drivers (M4, Town Car) get lose while driving at 60 mph, the highway speed around here.

Exactly, I've been in the car with absolute idiots who seemed to be doing everything in their power to upset their car, we're talking everything from MX5s, New Golf R, M BMW, Impreza... so on and so forth and even with utter idiots at the wheel the cars never felt unstable or unpredictable. You could feel the weight and grip of these cars hold the road... but GT7 seems to have no threshold for error. Its either stable or you've crashed.
I've been breaking hard in the Polo Gti in game and it's just snapped it's backend around like someone gave it full lock and handbrake... they do not do that otherwise nobody would buy a car that dangerous. 🤣

While traction control definitely makes a difference in real life; it does not make a 250 HP car go from controllable to an uncontrollable mess by not having it on.

I think the problem most people are having is with low HP cars acting like they have the most bald tires ever put on a car.

Thats the point I've been saying. The comfort tyres feel more like Chinese budget tyres with no tread. There's zero sensation or feedback that they're even trying to grip the surface... just floaty then sliding.