Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[JDMKING13]

The cockpit does feel more immersive than ever before, but I still can't get to grips with it because of the camera wobbling. I'm used to the static or 'fixed' view of the previous GTs that cockpit view in 7 feels like an entirely different experience than before.

I like the wobbling camera.. I use the first one it has its moments when it a little off but majority of the time is really good as for speed sensation , Gs during turns, and the elevation changes are a lot noticeable.

 

[Mike1985]

I think this is a mayor issue for Polyphony Digital to fix in a patch, if possible. They should make the steering more user friendly, and by that I dont mean, make it "arcade" or for noobs. I mean, there is no need for it to be this sensitive, its not even realistic. So we can say that the physics are currently flawed, broken in the rear wheel stability department. If they dont fix this in some relatively short space of time, then they will just alienate the gran turismo community. I mean the most important thing in a racing video game, is the handling. Even if they organize an official gran turismo tournament, there will be many crashes of racers, and people will see that something is wrong with the game. Otherwise the game is great, they just need to fix this issue. Currently, options for online racing sim fans are rFactor 2, iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Assetto Corsa Competizione, Automobilista 2, Gran Turismo 5,6, Sport. We'll see how the game is in 3 months, 6 months, a year.

The way I see the Gran Turismo series games, is more like a car collecting and history reading game. Also with some fun racing, but we have to live with GTs quirks. Its great that the game caters to all tastes, to the casual racers, and to the racing simulation fans.

 

[Kita Kangaroo]

How do you find the brakes? Sometimes I smoothly press the pedal and the car dives to the right like its been punted by a passing car. Or the car simply doesn't seem to slow down at all.

Its weird... never had this problem with GT Sport... and if I did it was usually my own doing by being reckless. But GT7 seems to punish me even when driving as carefully as Driving Miss Daisy.

I thought is was just me
Really had to big-toe my braking around the track of late

 

[Granadier]

Something is fundamentally wrong with the tire model currently. I didn't think it could be worse than GT Sport, but they have somehow made it even more maddening. Even with racing tires the cars are getting snap oversteer without warning. This was so maddening that I've actually enabled the countersteer assist simply to be able to drive the cars.

I recorded a couple of example clips from GT Sport and GT7 using the Camaro ZL1 in stock configuration on RH tires to provide some examples.

GT Sport


GT7


And don't get me started on the rain physics or the fact that they are still using single-point traction modeling.

PS: also the ZL1 for some reason is coded as a manual transmission car?? The driver rows gears on a PRNDL...

 

[graesand]

Dude youre giving it full throttle mid corner in an overpowered american boat...

I do agree theres something a bit off with the cars behaivour in gt7, but i think its still better then gts. I hope they can make small adjustments to make it perfect, not nuke the whole idea..

 

[Seikenfreak]

Something is fundamentally wrong with the tire model currently. I didn't think it could be worse than GT Sport, but they have somehow made it even more maddening. Even with racing tires the cars are getting snap oversteer without warning. This was so maddening that I've actually enabled the countersteer assist simply to be able to drive the cars.

I recorded a couple of example clips from GT Sport and GT7 using the Camaro ZL1 in stock configuration on RH tires to provide some examples.

GT Sport


GT7


And don't get me started on the rain physics or the fact that they are still using single-point traction modeling.

PS: also the ZL1 for some reason is coded as a manual transmission car?? The driver rows gears on a PRNDL...

Looks pretty good to me. You're driving a heavy, high hp/tq, RWD car with traction control off around a bend at 100mph, a bit stabby on the throttle while feeding it even more steering lock when it breaks loose.

The cars feel like they have mass in this. Traction control can only do so much.

This thread is painful to read. I don't know why I'm torturing myself. Some people like GT Sports handling better and thus that makes it more realistic and GT7 must be broken. It couldn't be anything else.

Anyway, my GT DD Pro arrived today and I put my first laps in using my 996 GT3, basically cup car, that I was using for the Porsche Cup. Absolutely love it. The car feels like it has a ball and chain on the back.. because it has an engine behind the rear wheels. Drive it like a motorcycle: Straight line braking, try not to trail, and then ease on the throttle through the whole turn to balance the car out. Smooth inputs. Leave on TC1 obviously. The car is a bit of a handful but I was able to control the slides even better with the wheel setup. So much fun to drive on the limit.

 

[JDMKING13]

Something is fundamentally wrong with the tire model currently. I didn't think it could be worse than GT Sport, but they have somehow made it even more maddening. Even with racing tires the cars are getting snap oversteer without warning. This was so maddening that I've actually enabled the countersteer assist simply to be able to drive the cars.

I recorded a couple of example clips from GT Sport and GT7 using the Camaro ZL1 in stock configuration on RH tires to provide some examples.

GT Sport


GT7


And don't get me started on the rain physics or the fact that they are still using single-point traction modeling.

PS: also the ZL1 for some reason is coded as a manual transmission car?? The driver rows gears on a PRNDL...

Looks like you are using same throttle inputs for a game with a more dynamic physics.. did you tune the suspension? Remember putting hard tires on a car In GT7 is going to have more of an impact than sport because of the tuning and customization aspects.

 

[fortbo]

Something is fundamentally wrong with the tire model currently. I didn't think it could be worse than GT Sport, but they have somehow made it even more maddening. Even with racing tires the cars are getting snap oversteer without warning. This was so maddening that I've actually enabled the countersteer assist simply to be able to drive the cars.

I recorded a couple of example clips from GT Sport and GT7 using the Camaro ZL1 in stock configuration on RH tires to provide some examples.

GT Sport


GT7


And don't get me started on the rain physics or the fact that they are still using single-point traction modeling.

PS: also the ZL1 for some reason is coded as a manual transmission car?? The driver rows gears on a PRNDL...

Your throttle inputs are all over the place, try being smoother with it and don’t punch it mid corner like that. The car will be much more stable.

 

[FA_Hayes]

One thing I do like is the linear pedal inputs and being punished with too much overlapping of inputs. It's one thing I really didn't like in previous titles.

It's obvious the physics need a bit of tweaking, but people have a lot if unrealistic input habits to break before becoming quick in GT7. Me included. Lol

It is a beauty of a change for the franchise for sure.

 

[JDMKING13]

One thing I do like is the linear pedal inputs and being punished with too much overlapping of inputs. It's one thing I really didn't like in previous titles.

It's obvious the physics need a bit of tweaking, but people have a lot if unrealistic input habits to break before becoming quick in GT7. Me included. Lol

It is a beauty of a change for the franchise for sure.

Just got gold on S-7 and I mean you talking about intensity!! The sound is just amazing and how fast the car feels is insane!!

 

[Granadier]

Dude youre giving it full throttle mid corner in an overpowered american boat...

I do agree theres something a bit off with the cars behaivour in gt7, but i think its still better then gts. I hope they can make small adjustments to make it perfect, not nuke the whole idea..

It was the most recent example as I was going through missions where I could quickly get a comparison to GT Sport, so please give me some credit. I've been around the block a time or two.

This is an occurrence with every single car, on all tire types.

 

[D_Dragline]

Ok, it seems there are more than a few posters convinced that the only problem here is the skill of people posting. Sure, some of the issues described may be caused by a misunderstanding of how GT7 differs to Sport and therefore a failure to adapt driving style.

I now have gold in all bar 2 licence tests (The Yaris rally and the final S licence test at Spa) and almost all of them have been completed with TCS off. I have avoided using it because I'm trying to challenge myself as much as possible and improve my car control. I am satisfied I understand the dynamics and feel like my skill level now matches the 65k I brought across from Sport. For the most part I love the way the physics has been implemented, especially for race cars. It's more challenging, more realistic and more immersive.

BUT, there are some glaring problems at the margins which are not simply the result of better/more realistic modelling. It is not normal for a RWD car to suddenly lose the rear at low speeds, under light acceleration with TCS on. It is even less normal for the loss of the rear under these conditions to be completely unsalvageable. Does this ruin the game? No, but let's not pretend it's a desirable feature of an improved physics system.

 

[fortbo]

Here’s another example of how easy it is to loose a car under braking and corner entry. In this case I was driving an Audi S3 which is a front biased haldex AWD car, very close to the TTS in game. This is something that GT7 simulates much better compared to GTS. I do agree with the idea that harder doesn’t always mean more realistic, but easier doesn’t automatically make it more realistic too. There’s certain aspects of driving a street car on the limit that are just difficult no matter what. Skip to around the 33 second mark

 

[Granadier]

Ok, it seems there are more than a few posters convinced that the only problem here is the skill of people posting.

Honestly thought it would've improved since the last time I've ventured into this place but guess I was wrong.

 

[fortbo]

Honestly thought it would've improved since the last time I've ventured into this place but guess I was wrong.

Don’t get me wrong, the physics with GT7 aren’t perfect by any means, but they’re a clear improvement over GTSport and in my opinion, the cars are still controllable. My comment was just trying to help out. Being smooth is always better, even with imperfect physics.

 

[Granadier]

Don’t get me wrong, the physics with GT7 aren’t perfect by any means, but they’re a clear improvement over GTSport and in my opinion, the cars are still controllable. My comment was just trying to help out. Being smooth is always better, even with imperfect physics.

While I appreciate the unsolicited advice, it wasn't why I came here. I have plenty of experience, and the example clips were from a gamepad input (since my rig no longer works with a PS).

Overall, the driving physics here are improved over GTS. They are not to a degree where you could claim they are matching realism, but they have improved. What my post was about was specifically with the tire model which has glaring issues as it:

• Doesn't handle traction coefficients properly based on compound type.
• Calculates its traction value off a single-point model still.
• At the limit, it lacks a realistic fall-off curve that you would experience with an actual tire. Real tires don't just snap to zero traction.

 

[Superhero Wally]

Did anyone else have a more difficult time with the Magic Mountain mission challenge 2? The Porsche at High Speed Ring. That, to me, was the hardest challenge of this set and it was only the second one. I think it's meant to be easier than that.

One of two things I used any aids on so far. The other was the Taycan license test at the Ring to get gold. I'm probably gonna need to use some for S-10. PS4 motion controls.

 

[fortbo]

While I appreciate the unsolicited advice, it wasn't why I came here. I have plenty of experience, and the example clips were from a gamepad input (since my rig no longer works with a PS).

Overall, the driving physics here are improved over GTS. They are not to a degree where you could claim they are matching realism, but they have improved. What my post was about was specifically with the tire model which has glaring issues as it:

• Doesn't handle traction coefficients properly based on compound type.
• Calculates its traction value off a single-point model still.
• At the limit, it lacks a realistic fall-off curve that you would experience with an actual tire. Real tires don't just snap to zero traction.

While I have understand your points, I haven’t experienced any sort of snap to zero traction with sport tires in game. Slides are generally pretty manageable. But your video was less so pointing out physics flaws and more so showing improvements. You have throttle inputs like that without TC in a car like that in real life and there will be pretty similar results.

 

[Granadier]

While I have understand your points, I haven’t experienced any sort of snap to zero traction with sport tires in game. Slides are generally pretty manageable. But your video was less so pointing out physics flaws and more so showing improvements. You have throttle inputs like that without TC in a car like that in real life and there will be pretty similar results.

There was a reason I used Racing Hard tires (full slicks) in my examples. The higher you go the more apparent the issue becomes.

 

[fortbo]

There was a reason I used Racing Hard tires (full slicks) in my examples. The higher you go the more apparent the issue becomes.

Yeah and that’s realistic, racing slicks behave very close to that in real life. Many HPDE programs actually don’t allow beginners to run slicks because of this.

 

[FA_Hayes]

Just got gold on S-7 and I mean you talking about intensity!! The sound is just amazing and how fast the car feels is insane!!

Good on you! I'm all gold up until S license tests. I'll start working on them this week. Wanted to get them out of the way before other stuff.

Road cars are needing some time to learn i barely touched them in GTS. Mostly GR3 is my wheelhouse..

 

[meekrab]

With a few more hundred miles driven, I will say this... TC settings 1 and 2 feel very very good. Group 3 cars feels almost like ACC GT3 cars in terms of traction control being extremely useful, whereas in the prior game it was hilariously bad.

 

[Granadier]

Yeah and that’s realistic, racing slicks behave very close to that in real life. Many HPDE programs actually don’t allow beginners to run slicks because of this.

It's just not. There is no realistic traction falloff curve present within the sim. They simply do not snap like this.

 

[fortbo]

It's just not. There is no realistic traction falloff curve present within the sim. They simply do not snap like this.

What experience do you have racing with R compound or slick tires? Street tires have a curve for their falloff, slicks and track tires are very abrupt in comparison.

Edit: here’s a graph that shows how slicks and track tires traction curved compare to a street tire. Notice how the slick has a very high peak grip and a very abrupt loss of grip, same with the lower performance racing tire under it, something equivalent to a DOT track tire, then there’s the street tire with a very gradual loss of traction.

 

[s0cks]

So what's the jury saying on TCS? Keep it at 1? I wish TCS wasn't a global setting. I liked the "per car" setting in GTS.

 

[meekrab]

Bit of a minor detail, but the astroturf at the exits of No-Name and Stavelot are much bumpier than any other sim I've driven.

 

[Granadier]

What experience do you have racing with R compound or slick tires? Street tires have a curve for their falloff, slicks and track tires are very abrupt in comparison.

They are more abrupt than a street tire, but they do not lose traction instantly once reaching their limit. They would be useless if they did as drivers would not be able to safely push into the limit of the tire.

My experience with slick tires is limited to a handful of track days in real world driving, but I have extensive experience with sims that use an accurate tire model for racing tires.

Edit: To address your edit and included graph, it very clearly shows the traction falloff curve that I've been referencing. Here I've attached a version that depicts the GT7 model.

 

[fortbo]

They are more abrupt than a street tire, but they do not lose traction instantly once reaching their limit. They would be useless if they did as drivers would not be able to safely push into the limit of the tire.

My experience with slick tires is limited to a couple of track days in real world driving, but I have extensive experience with sims that use an accurate tire model for racing tires.

Slicks are incredibly hard to drive at the limit, the loss of grip isn’t necessarily instant, but it’s close to it. Slicks don’t exactly have a slip angle, it’s more so traction and then an quick loss of traction once you go over that limit. That’s why it takes a ton of experience to actually be able to drive slicks effectively at the limit. Drivers can and do safely push to the limit with experience. The best way to describe it from a track day perspective is that it’s not all that hard to drive a car within its limits, it is however very hard to drive it at the limit, even with a road tires traction curve.

 

[s0cks]

Slicks are incredibly hard to drive at the limit, the loss of grip isn’t necessarily instant, but it’s close to it. Slicks don’t exactly have a slip angle, it’s more so traction and then an quick loss of traction once you go over that limit. That’s why it takes a ton of experience to actually be able to drive slicks effectively at the limit. Drivers can and do safely push to the limit with experience. The best way to describe it from a track day perspective is that it’s not all that hard to drive a car within its limits, it is however very hard to drive it at the limit, even with a road tires traction curve.

Have you raced other sims? If so, how do you think it compares?

 

[BigSarj]

Good on you! I'm all gold up until S license tests. I'll start working on them this week. Wanted to get them out of the way before other stuff.

Road cars are needing some time to learn i barely touched them in GTS. Mostly GR3 is my wheelhouse..

I'm in the same wheelhouse.

On that note, I finally drove a race car in the game today. I suped up the '03 M3 to about 690pp to do the Nurburgring GP and Red Bull Ring events for a menu quest. I did some minor tuning to minimize the oversteer.

Bugged tire model or not, the driving was incredibly fun. It was truly a joy and I wish I could keep playing tonight but it's time to come back to the real world.

But, yeah, even if the oversteer is somewhat fixable with setup, I'm having major issues saving it most of the time. Countersteering has never been my strong suit but like I said, it feels like there is nothing I can do once it happens.