Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[CarreraGT]

Not sure what everyone is complaining about, the physics are much improved over GT Sport. Traction breakaway and the transition to understeer and oversteer are more realistic and you actually need to be measured in your steering inputs (in GT Sport you could just throw 100% lock at it and plow straight ahead with no consequences).

Perhaps some people should stick to Need for Speed?

 

[Superhero Wally]

There is only one test in game that needs to be done to clearly see there is a problem with something ingame, whether it's tire physics, a gravity issue, suspension, or what have you. Run licenses tests S-6 and S-7. My best time on S-6 GT350R on Trial Mountain, is 2:16.989, most of that time, 2 seconds, missing gold is from the first tunnel, just trying to maintain speed, not even accelerate. The uphill turn with camber just wants to send the tail out right and me nose first into the wall of the tunnel. After many attempts. S-7, Super Formula at Laguna, for comparison. My best time is 1:07.925, just over .5 seconds off gold, after just a few attmepts, and I know I can easily gold it. Correct me, if I'm wrong, and maybe I am, but it shouldn't be easier to drive a formula car on the limit, or close to it, than a road car.

PS4 Pro, motion controls, abs, no driver aids.

 

[s0cks]

It very much works regardless of what you read disagreeing. It worked in GTS too. It was especially noticeable on my DD1. It reacts almost like changing the steering ratio. With some beltdriven wheels or something with a lot of resistance it might not be that noticeable but it does make a difference.

Even the big boys like Fraga ran it at 7 on GTS.

Thanks I'll check it out. I ran it at 7 in GTS too but was told it made no difference.

 

[Granadier]

S-10 is another great example of the poor tire model behavior as well as the extreme limitations of the single-point traction calculation.

 

[Theufcveteran]

Playing with the DualSense, I haven’t experienced snap oversteer but you can’t drive as aggressively as you could in GT Sport anymore. Which I don’t mind, I really like the physics.

I did the Corvette at Willow license test and in 7 you really have to thread the needle - but, at least on the controller, on street/semi-slick tyres, FR cars do have a gradual loss of traction. It’s quick but I found you can manage it. In Sport you could ram the throttle and control the slide pretty easily, here you have to feather it a lot more and be more measured with the application of power.

Seems that it’s a wheel issue to an extent? Or maybe the FFB isn’t detailed enough to detect when you’re on the edge of grip? Or perhaps I just haven’t experienced it yet, I’ve not tried out a car with racing tyres yet so I will do so later today and log my experience.

 

[KAlex122]

Playing with the DualSense, I haven’t experienced snap oversteer but you can’t drive as aggressively

You are driving without any assists and TC?

 

[Theufcveteran]

You are driving without any assists and TC?

Yup. Only ABS on weak.

 

[Obsidian-2]

Not sure what everyone is complaining about, the physics are much improved over GT Sport. Traction breakaway and the transition to understeer and oversteer are more realistic and you actually need to be measured in your steering inputs (in GT Sport you could just throw 100% lock at it and plow straight ahead with no consequences).

Perhaps some people should stick to Need for Speed?

Most physics are improved. However, RWD car physics are broken. All the "real sim racers" can post about how good it is. Whatever.

Most people who have posted in this thread who actually drive one of the GT7 cars IRL (and especially the ones who track their cars) are saying the RWD physics are broken.

Numerous Miata AutoXers have already posted. I drive a 370Z and there is no way it spins like the license test on Tsukuba. Plenty of other examples in the 1,000+ posts here.

Just do not get mad when they fix the physics, which they will. They have changed the physics in every version since & including GT5.

My theory on the issue is that the game is overinterpreting steering input, where slight inputs are being interpreted as large inputs. I could be wrong, but that is how it feels to me.

All that said, I have found that putting a giant wing on RWD cars and dialing up the rear downforce helps dramatically. 😁 And once you get the death wobble, let off the throttle completely.

Is this confirmed? Manual says it's for wireless controllers.

It does nothing on the G29. I have tried it back to back on both extremes and there is no difference. Doing the same test with both FFB settings and the difference is very noticeable.

I suppose it might do something for other wheels, but definitely not the G29. The very fact that the in game description says "wireless controllers" is clue #1.

 

[Arveena]

Some people here are out of their mind.
I did not post for a long time here. I did loose interest completely in GT Sport because it's physics were so bad compared to everything on the market esp PC.

Now first a few remarks about me. I do motorsports since Im 4 years old from karting to a bit of on track action (nothing major small touring cars and small single seater) I live close to the Nürburgring and did drive a lot of in-game cars on track or at least fast on a closed road. Clio RS Polo GTI BMW M3 Nissan GTR Nissan 350z nismo multiple Porsches and Tesla's etc. Small single seaters etc.

For my GT credentials I was once a national finalists for Germany in the GT Academy.

The pyhsics in this Game are VASTLY IMPROVED. Are they perfect or better than the best PC sims out there? No but they are miles better than any other GT game before.
Some cars are extremely good for example the small hatchbacks like the Clio RS and polo are spot on. I have driven both on track. Traction control and tyres now behave like they should. I would say that sport soft feels most like an equivalent of a normal sporty tire like a Michelin pilot sport 4s not like a cup. So that's why a sport hard or something tends to have a lot of oversteer it feels more like a normal road tire not like a sport tyre. Comforts feel like all weather or winter tyres to me . So yeah there is a tendency of tyres providing less grip but if you put the right tyres on it feels very good.
Only major problem I have is rain physics not on track which feels fine but in grass. The grass has more grip than the track in the rain sometimes which is a bit of a ****up.

Judging physics while playing with a controller also makes absolutely zero sense. I also sometimes play with the controller but I would never even think to give a statement about how physics feel. Because it's such a different experience than driving the real car it's absolutely impossible to even compare the two.

All in all it's a game where the physics are now good enough that you actually can enjoy it if you have driven around a lot in reallife which was not the case for me at least in GT Sport. I think ACC still has the best physics on console but I am very much enjoying GT7. A good thing to note is often in real life cars still have a bit of TC ESP on even if you turn it off. Lots of cars you need to jump through loops to take everything off and yes they are that skittish under acceleration with a heavy steering input. I drive a model 3 performance and when I put all the power to the back wheels and turn TC completely off and I have no cups on it but normal road tyres. It's a ****ing handful same goes for every rear wheel drive car ever. TC 1 in the game represents the normal TC off in most cars. TC off in game feels like dedicated off/overwrite switches/drift modes from modern cars. So that's also something to keep in mind.

Curbs are better now but still not good enough. Rain physics I need to test further sometimes they feel good Sometimes completely bad. Dirt is ****. Also offtrack in general has a bit to much grip esp under braking.

The only thing that really sucks is that you can not adjust FOV. Bonnet or chase cam instantly kill immersion for me but it will be faster for most people without a FOV slider. Which kinda sucks

 

[Stakado]

It was the most recent example as I was going through missions where I could quickly get a comparison to GT Sport, so please give me some credit. I've been around the block a time or two.

This is an occurrence with every single car, on all tire types.

Just look at the amount of aceleration you use in both games. In GTS you never pass at 50% of gas in a turn but in GT7 you go to 80-100% gas.
The pedal is much more sensible now, you cant play in the same way

 

[Goldin]

I relly like new physics model.
Cars feel more alive than in GTS because upgraded suspension.
FWD hot hatches finally can lift off oversteer what was before impossible.
I now play on DS4 and consider myself pretty good (even got few diamond times in LH challenge with controller), and the feeling is vastly improved, even better feedback with vibration before loosing traction, or when going over a bump. I use only ABS and sometimes TCS1 on cars over 400 hp because I dont use racing tyres on street cars, and I am really enjoying GT7.

It is noticable difference to GT Sport and now to drive with controller you need to be gentle with triggers when breaking (nice vibration with ABS activating when brake help you), and when giving throttle input, but that is also in real live driving.

You don't drive your car by smashing throttle like switch on/off, and if you translate that in game you'll have better time.

 

[Scaff]

Ok, it seems there are more than a few posters convinced that the only problem here is the skill of people posting. Sure, some of the issues described may be caused by a misunderstanding of how GT7 differs to Sport and therefore a failure to adapt driving style.

I've not seen anyone say that the only problem is other people not adapting to the changed physics, most that I have seen have said that it, while still not perfect, is a step in the right direction.

BUT, there are some glaring problems at the margins which are not simply the result of better/more realistic modelling. It is not normal for a RWD car to suddenly lose the rear at low speeds, under light acceleration with TCS on. It is even less normal for the loss of the rear under these conditions to be completely unsalvageable. Does this ruin the game? No, but let's not pretend it's a desirable feature of an improved physics system.

Which car, which corner of which track, what speed, what driver aids being used, etc.

While the grip level on some default tyres does seem lower than it should be, I have to disagree that it's fundamentally wrong or that oversteer is completely unsalvageable.

I'd invite you to reference your graph to see that they do indeed have a gradual loss of traction; albeit more abrupt than a street tire.

Regardless, the GT tire model still works off a single-point calculation model and so can't possibly be accurate enough to perfectly model tire's loss of traction. The best it can do is estimate it, which this version of the model does poorly.

You do realise your arguing how slicks work with someone who races a car, on slicks?

Oh and AC runs a single point tyre model, as did ACC up to version 1.07, the main advantage of a multi -point model are over curbs and rumble strips

PHYSICS - Introducing the 5 point tyre model for ACC!

In modern computing, collision detection is still one of the most resource consuming operations a physics engine has to do. It needs to be very fast,...

www.assettocorsa.net

Most people who have posted in this thread who actually drive one of the GT7 cars IRL (and especially the ones who track their cars) are saying the RWD physics are broken.

Except they are not, at the same time you have posted this, three members who fall firmly in that category disagreed with you.

 

[Moglet]

Judging physics while playing with a controller also makes absolutely zero sense. I also sometimes play with the controller but I would never even think to give a statement about how physics feel. Because it's such a different experience than driving the real car it's absolutely impossible to even compare the two.

This is true however I'm pretty sure that the majority of players will be on a controller and the game still has to be playable for them so they are well within their rights to judge the physics.

 

[Obsidian-2]

I've not seen anyone say that the only problem is other people not adapting to the changed physics, most that I have seen have said that it, while still not perfect, is a step in the right direction.

Which car, which corner of which track, what speed, what driver aids being used, etc.

While the grip level on some default tyres does seem lower than it should be, I have to disagree that it's fundamentally wrong or that oversteer is completely unsalvageable.

You do realise your arguing how slicks work with someone who races a car, on slicks?


Except they are not, at the same time you have posted this, three members who fall firmly in that category disagreed with you.

Which three? It looks like just the one who feels the need to list his credentials and then mentions FWD cars.
I already said the physics were improved for everything except RWD cars. Just read through the other 1,000+ posts.

 

[OldSilentHill]

I've played GT Sport with my G29 for several years and now switching to GT7 feels almost like a different game. And in a good way.

I'm still in awe.

 

[Arveena]

This is true however I'm pretty sure that the majority of players will be on a controller and the game still has to be playable for them so they are well within their rights to judge the physics.

I disagree to some extent. You can say you don't like the physics but lots of people calling it unrealistic which in my opinion is not even possible to assess on a controller. Sure you can not like them or like them but it's impossible to know if they are realistic or not without a wheel and without some track experience in real life. It falls into the not extremely great not even close to bad category for me which is a great improvement over GT sport and I hope they will build on this engine because with a better tyre model and some subtle changes it could be really special. There are no games on console with a realistic driving model and a huge amount of variety. ACC physics are fantastic but it's very limited in content. GT7 is already leading there and it could become very special with a few minor tweaks.

 

[MaxAttack]

Correct me, if I'm wrong, and maybe I am, but it shouldn't be easier to drive a formula car on the limit, or close to it, than a road car

Are you sure about that?

The machine designed specifically to be driven on the limit as potently and consistently as possible should be harder to drive on the limit than a passenger car designed for legal speed transit?

Are you sure about that?

 

[Scaff]

Which three? It looks like just the one who feels the need to list his credentials and then mentions FWD cars.

Add in myself and @fortbo, I've 20+ years experience on track and proving grounds working in the motor industry, and Fortbo races RWD cars.

Oh and don't reference having real world experience and then moan about people citing real world experience, you opened that door.

I already said the physics were improved for everything except RWD cars. Just read through the other 1,000+ posts.

I have, all of them, and a good number of people in this thread, with the required real world experience, disagree with you.

Now how about you answer the part of my post you ignored?

 

[JDMKING13]

This is true however I'm pretty sure that the majority of players will be on a controller and the game still has to be playable for them so they are well within their rights to judge the physics.

While I agree with this to a degree, because you can still get a sense of a game’s physics engine with a controller. To truly judge a game’s physics though has to be done with a wheel.. for example you cannot judge AC physics truly based on a controller.. If one went into the AC sub forms and said AC physics were trash and they were basing it off a controller not to many would take that statement serious.

 

[BolverkGTM]

Just look at the amount of aceleration you use in both games. In GTS you never pass at 50% of gas in a turn but in GT7 you go to 80-100% gas.
The pedal is much more sensible now, you cant play in the same way

The tire compounds are a lot different in a good way. Much grippier....to a clearly defined limit that is completely transparent when you start dancing on the beautiful line of slip angle.

I've played GT Sport with my G29 for several years and now switching to GT7 feels almost like a different game. And in a good way.

I'm still in awe.

Same, I feel like this is a completely different animal in a really, really good way. Now if only I can convince my team leader to let me keep enjoying this game and start paving headways into it. I'll need to put in some results at the next GT3 endurance on iRacing before I can do that. 😅

 

[LokusAbriss]

I am in the same boat, that I really enjoy the physics. Especially the rain physics, because I really hate driving faster with a wet surface in real life. Race tracks are even more slippery in the wet, compared to a normal road.

What confuses me since GT5 and onwards, that there is no option for tyre width or tyre pressure. Both factors that change the handling and grip in a huge way for any car. And I am not sure if tyre heat is simulated? I am not seeing a hud display for it.

Cold tyres are my main theory for some of the harder license tests. Especially the ones with torque strong cars like the Supra or the Corvette C7. Key to a grippy tyre is the right heat. In real life you need to warm them up to get them to perform right. Even cheaper ones like Federal tyres need a warm up.

So, I am not sure if I miss these points and they are there, or they are hidden in the simulation for us not to tinker with? In the official "Beyound the Apex" is everything explained, but no word about tyres. Again, the most important part of a car.

 

[Scaff]

Are you sure about that?

The machine designed specifically to be driven on the limit as potently and consistently as possible should be harder to drive on the limit than a passenger car designed for legal speed transit?

Are you sure about that?

The last race car I drove was a Formula Renault at Thruxton, it was considerably easier to drive quickly than the car we used for the sighting laps (Cayman S), it's been the same for the majority of my race car vs road car experience.

The key is road tyres are generally more progressive when you step over the limit than slicks, oh and as an exception to every rule needs to exist, Formula Ford's are a handful full stop. Despite running road legal tyres, Formula Ford are easy to oversteer, and exceed their limits at much lower speeds than most people would imagine. That however is a large part of the purpose behind them as a feeder series, as they demand you learn to be smooth and measured with all your inputs.

 

[Veinz]

This is true however I'm pretty sure that the majority of players will be on a controller and the game still has to be playable for them so they are well within their rights to judge the physics.

This game is very playable on controller.

 

[MaxAttack]

The last race car I drove was a Formula Renault at Thruxton, it was considerably easier to drive quickly than the car we used for the sighting laps (Cayman S), it's been the same for the majority of my race car vs road car experience.

The key is road tyres are generally more progressive when you step over the limit than slicks, oh and as an exception to every rule needs to exist, Formula Ford's are a handful full stop. Despite running road legal tyres, Formula Ford are easy to oversteer, and exceed their limits at much lower speeds than most people would imagine. That however is a large part of the purpose behind them as a feeder series, as they demand you learn to be smooth and measured with all your inputs.

I've never driven a race car but having watched the F Fords support the BTCC at Thruxton in October (hey, snap!), I can definitely get behind that sentiment as I stood at complex and watched them loop it all afternoon. The only other cars that spun so much were the Ginetta Jr's which I'd imagine was more on account of the mad 12 year olds driving the thing.

But yes I absolutely agree, I do not think Lewis Hamilton would be a happy man to arrive at the track and find his bleeding edge tech race car is harder to hustle around the track than something as dumb as Mustang gt350r on semi-slicks.

 

[Arveena]

Which three? It looks like just the one who feels the need to list his credentials and then mentions FWD cars.
I already said the physics were improved for everything except RWD cars. Just read through the other 1,000+ posts.

Did you even read my post I mentioned lots of RWD cars there. On the right tyre with a compatible TC setting they feel completely fine. Throttle control is easier in a real car unless you have a very expensive set of pedals for your rig of course. But if you have that I have no problem controlling RWD cars on a sport soft which correlates to a michelin cup 2 tyre. Sport hards feel a bit of but I guess it should correlate to a basic sporty street tyre. That's why some cars who come with street hard but would come with a pilot sport cup in Reallife feel a bit skittish for example the AMG license test on the Nürburgring. But I would also be quite the experience in real life to drive a car without TC and ****** tyres on the ring so that's fine with me.
I think the main problem people have is many cars come fitted with the wrong tyres and most cars don't deactivate the TC fully even with TC off and trackmode on in reallife but they drive with TC off in the game all the time which equals drift mode/dyno mode or a manual override of the TC in a real car. Or even in racing cars where most of the time TC is on all the time for example GT3s. A GT3 would be unrealistic if you drive it without TC


Also in reallife racecars are way easier to drive quick than Roadcars from my experience. Esp GT3 are made to be driven by some 75year old billionaire on a track they are very easy to drive. Whereas cars like old supercars are literal death traps compared to that. It's fun as hell but driving a 964 fast was one of the most challenging drives of my life so please keep that in mind.

I agree to some extend that rear wheel drive cars are a bit to skittish but it's way better this way than the other way around. Just put TC to 1 if you can not handle it that would be also the case if most people would drive a modern street car on track anyway.

 

[JDMKING13]

I am in the same boat, that I really enjoy the physics. Especially the rain physics, because I really hate driving faster with a wet surface in real life. Race tracks are even more slippery in the wet, compared to a normal road.

What confuses me since GT5 and onwards, that there is no option for tyre width or tyre pressure. Both factors that change the handling and grip in a huge way for any car. And I am not sure if tyre heat is simulated? I am not seeing a hud display for it.

Cold tyres are my main theory for some of the harder license tests. Especially the ones with torque strong cars like the Supra or the Corvette C7. Key to a grippy tyre is the right heat. In real life you need to warm them up to get them to perform right. Even cheaper ones like Federal tyres need a warm up.

So, I am not sure if I miss these points and they are there, or they are hidden in the simulation for us not to tinker with? In the official "Beyound the Apex" is everything explained, but no word about tyres. Again, the most important part of a car.

You can actually change tire width now just to let you know! We still need tire pressure adjustment though!

I just informed all my league members I strongly suggest using TC and ASM during league play for GT7 it’s going to be very interesting with these new dynamics in within the physics!

 

[LokusAbriss]

You can actually change tire width now just to let you know! We still need tire pressure adjustment though!

Yes, but we don't know the sizes, right? When I go from a stock R32 and go 500hp up, I want to know what size is installed, after adding wide tyres and wheels in GT Auto. If they only apply like R18 235mm or so, the corner performance would'nt make sense.

 

[raceluxius]

Not completely related to handling physics but visuals that represent them need to be looked at too.

I'm quite impressed by how the head and arms move inside the cockpit when driving but I don't like how a supposedly static onboard T-cam bounces and rotates. It would have been great for comparison videos with real life.

 

[xMAXIx79]

I understand some of the concerns and issues of some drivers/players here and I don't want to alleviate those concerns/concerns. But I personally can only say at the moment that I really like GT7. Has it become more difficult/challenging than GTS? Yes, definitely, but this is more about road vehicles, the GT ( GT500 / GT3 / GT4 ) vehicles that I have already driven/tested behave very well and are also controllable up to a very high level.
There are also points that you can get a grip on later setup. Important for all those who have big problems with strong oversteer, pay particular attention to 2 points during setup.
On the one hand, the stability at high speeds should have a positive value if possible AND especially on the G forces when cornering, here especially the G forces at high speeds. It takes a while to achieve really good values here and, above all, to find out which combinations are most effective here.

I totally agree with the grip in the rain, it's low and sometimes very demanding, but it shouldn't get boring after all.

Incidentally, driving aids are a blessing and not a curse, especially when it rains, and nobody should be ashamed to use them, if you say otherwise, you are welcome to leave them deactivated and I will then overtake you in the race.

I highly recommend everyone to take it slow, relax and play GT7 like a whole new game, not like an upgrade from GTS. The gas pedal alone is finally really good and really linear, as it should be, and this is where a lot of mistakes are made. Releasing too much in a corner is just as deadly as over-accelerating. I myself drove a "nice" 3-series BMW 3L diesel with tuning for a few years. Anyone who turns off the little helpers and then was too rough with the gas pedal on "bad/wet" roads would have flown hopelessly.

I recommend everyone to first drive ALL licenses to gold, then compare them with their friends and try to beat the best time... You will be surprised and you will get used to the new physics much better.
I've got everything on gold and some pretty good times too so I'm happy at the moment. Now I'm working on the café to have all the routes, especially the Nordschleife, and then I'll expand my fleet and try to improve my gold times.

By the way:

S-10 was the really hardest but also the most interesting challenge and getting through it with gold and a good time showed me that it's definitely possible... but it's very difficult to deal with the different grips of the track. It's relatively difficult to see on the PS4 Pro, so you had to know beforehand where the less grip is and where the ideal line is.

 

[JDMKING13]

I understand some of the concerns and issues of some drivers/players here and I don't want to alleviate those concerns/concerns. But I personally can only say at the moment that I really like GT7. Has it become more difficult/challenging than GTS? Yes, definitely, but this is more about road vehicles, the GT ( GT500 / GT3 / GT4 ) vehicles that I have already driven/tested behave very well and are also controllable up to a very high level.
There are also points that you can get a grip on later setup. Important for all those who have big problems with strong oversteer, pay particular attention to 2 points during setup.
On the one hand, the stability at high speeds should have a positive value if possible AND especially on the G forces when cornering, here especially the G forces at high speeds. It takes a while to achieve really good values here and, above all, to find out which combinations are most effective here.

I totally agree with the grip in the rain, it's low and sometimes very demanding, but it shouldn't get boring after all.

Incidentally, driving aids are a blessing and not a curse, especially when it rains, and nobody should be ashamed to use them, if you say otherwise, you are welcome to leave them deactivated and I will then overtake you in the race.

I highly recommend everyone to take it slow, relax and play GT7 like a whole new game, not like an upgrade from GTS. The gas pedal alone is finally really good and really linear, as it should be, and this is where a lot of mistakes are made. Releasing too much in a corner is just as deadly as over-accelerating. I myself drove a "nice" 3-series BMW 3L diesel with tuning for a few years. Anyone who turns off the little helpers and then was too rough with the gas pedal on "bad/wet" roads would have flown hopelessly.

I recommend everyone to first drive ALL licenses to gold, then compare them with their friends and try to beat the best time... You will be surprised and you will get used to the new physics much better.
I've got everything on gold and some pretty good times too so I'm happy at the moment. Now I'm working on the café to have all the routes, especially the Nordschleife, and then I'll expand my fleet and try to improve my gold times.

By the way:

S-10 was the really hardest but also the most interesting challenge and getting through it with gold and a good time showed me that it's definitely possible... but it's very difficult to deal with the different grips of the track. It's relatively difficult to see on the PS4 Pro, so you had to know beforehand where the less grip is and where the ideal line is.

Nice post bro! Agreed with a lot of things you said! That S-10 was extremely hard for me… I almost cried when I beat it! It was hard to also see the wet spots for me I’m on the PS5… your knowledge of the tracks are going to have to get better because you are now going to have to know when it does get wet where are the NO NO spots 😂

My favorite test was with the formula car!! The sound the speed sensation and g force sensation were great!!