Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[driftnick13]

If there's an argument to be made, I think its that PD should work on better assists for people. And also put their egos away and let go of the "I drive with zero assists on because I know I'm good" mentality.

Don't know how many times it needs to be said, this is not a skill issue, this is not an ego issue, a lot of these cars are not hard to drive in real life, they are not hard to drive over the limit and control slides with in real life, this transitions to sims with good physics and FFB.

People made these same argument for GT6, even someone that competed at a pro level in European drift comps made the same argument you are making now, saying it was just a skill issue, he went a bit further and claimed GT6 was the most realistic sim at the time proving that having real life experience does not mean you have any idea what you are talking about.

I then I beat it into my head.. These (Gr3/Gr4) race cars have traction control in real life. It's there for a reason and it's silly to think you're cool to not use it.

People aren't complaining about these issues because they think that it's not cool to use traction control.

 

[Seikenfreak]

So then I guess give me a car/track combo with settings and maybe a lap time for some sort've guideline and I'll try it. I've seen people say the Miata should not be hard to drive? I've owned a Miata and AutoX'd it a few times. I need a laptime to go off though. If a car is so difficult to drive in game then it should be hard to put down a decent lap time. What tires? Comforts are pointless because those are basically all-season crap tires that no one uses in the real world. Is there a certain tire that is broken? I've seen people saying slicks are broken and sports are good? But hards are broken or are softs good? I guess don't even need a laptime. Can just drive it and upload the replay, hopefully demonstrating how it can be driven.

Otherwise, why are we even here wasting time arguing about this.

 

[cowboyjon]

Honestly dudes, the handling on all RWD cars...

... I've slogged through so many menu books and I get to the porsche series.

I upgrade my 911 with nothing but handling mods - soft tyres, weight reduction and suspension...

...only to find the arse snaps round with the slightest whiff of the throttle, just like every other RWD car I've been forced to drive for hours.

Races are not a thing of joy - they are a 10 minute lesson in tentative, egg shell walking frustration. I've had more relaxing sessions fighting bosses in elden ring.

 

[Ske]

@ the people who have driven the same cars hard in-game and irl:
How to you rate the wheel response/sensitivity? Too sensitive or just right?
Using a wheel that supports auto sensitivity?

 

[Superhero Wally]

Are you sure about that?

The machine designed specifically to be driven on the limit as potently and consistently as possible should be harder to drive on the limit than a passenger car designed for legal speed.

I would have to say the likes of the GT350R, are in the vein of the 911 GT3. A track car, designed to be driven on the limit, with creature comforts you can legally drive on the road. I probably should have phrased it as easier to find and drive on, or close to the limits of a Formula car, opposed to the GT350R

 

[fortbo]

How to you rate the wheel response/sensitivity? Too sensitive or just right?

Using a wheel that supports auto sensitivity?

It feels close, maybe slightly more sensitive in certain cars but it’s pretty spot on with the AMG GTS. The main difference for me is that this game rewards smooth driving in comparison to GTS which encourages some bad driving habits to put simply. What I can’t stress enough though is there is a huge difference between spirited driving and actually driving a car at the limit like we do in the game. I can say from experience that there’s even a big jump from just the level of pace from an advanced level track day and an actual competition event in real life. I’ll say it again the physics aren’t perfect but they are a big improvement. If you try to drive these cars like you would in GTS, it won’t work. I’ve had no problem getting up to pace by just applying how I would drive the car at the limit in real life. I know that having real world competition driving experience doesn’t make me an expert on physics by any means, but I do know how a car should feel on the limit and how it will react based on certain inputs. Certain things are still exaggerated a bit though.

 

[Granadier]

Oh and AC runs a single point tyre model, as did ACC up to version 1.07, the main advantage of a multi -point model are over curbs and rumble strips

PHYSICS - Introducing the 5 point tyre model for ACC!

In modern computing, collision detection is still one of the most resource consuming operations a physics engine has to do. It needs to be very fast,...

www.assettocorsa.net

AC/ACC (<1.07) use a single point model for efficiency, with that point being the very center of the tire surface. Unlike GTS / GT7 where the single-point calculation is any point within the tire collision mesh that has the least traction.

The single contact point is approaching the curb but still stays in the completely horizontal surface of the asphalt. Even if graphically the tyre starts to be “on the curb”, the actual point still remains down on the asphalt.

This is the key difference. In this scenario within GT the tire would immediately change to the "curb" traction because it has made contact. It would not have the partial-curb-mostly-tarmac traction of reality.

The evidence lies in how GT behaves when you reach the edge of the racing surface and a tire comes in contact with a blade of grass, or now with the new drying line for rain conditions, when the tire contacts the wet surface at all.

 

[JDMKING13]

So then I guess give me a car/track combo with settings and maybe a lap time for some sort've guideline and I'll try it. I've seen people say the Miata should not be hard to drive? I've owned a Miata and AutoX'd it a few times. I need a laptime to go off though. If a car is so difficult to drive in game then it should be hard to put down a decent lap time. What tires? Comforts are pointless because those are basically all-season crap tires that no one uses in the real world. Is there a certain tire that is broken? I've seen people saying slicks are broken and sports are good? But hards are broken or are softs good? I guess don't even need a laptime. Can just drive it and upload the replay, hopefully demonstrating how it can be driven.

Otherwise, why are we even here wasting time arguing about this.

This is how I’m feeling… the people who are having a hard time.. why don’t you upload your replay so everyone can see the issue… it’s easy to come on here and say the cars drive like crap… where is the proof? I am driving cars with ease and that’s not to sound like an elitist but it’s truth… I suggest doing a track day or maybe suggesting a specific track with a specific car and see what everyone can run.. I would be down for it!

 

[Seikenfreak]

Quick threw this together. The gift Miata from the beginning. Literally first time driving the car in this game (unless it was in one of the early license tests, can't remember) and these are my first 5 laps with it. The car is all stock except for Sport Softs and the BBS RS wheels and paint to make it look like my Miata did

Track is Suzuka Club because I think this is a perfect bit of track to test weight transitions and sustained traction through a long curve. The first turn being particularly difficult with heavy braking into a turn.

What I took away from this test is that I don't see anything entirely out of the ordinary. Because this is a 30 year old car on soft, factory suspension with a lot of suspension travel and all that ground clearance, the car wants to dive excessively under sudden hard braking. My second time into the turn goes perfectly and I manage it well. As the laps progress and I start trying to be more aggressive, with more aggressive inputs, i.e. harder faster application of the brakes, it upsets the balance of the car a lot.

As I said before: Smoothness is key. Old, soft sloppy cars will require you to manage the weight more.

 

[JDMKING13]

When so get a chance I’m going to do one with a stock Miata and upload it… great video and nice driving… watching that gave me a little bit of AC vibes!

@Seikenfreak

 

[Nielsen]

That’s respectable bro… just keep practicing I’m sure you will keep getting better and better! I am also noticing how track elevation makes a huge impact on how the cars handle vs GTS… if you gas ⛽️ it on a uneven surface you will easily disrupt the chassis.. the sensation Im getting from these production cars make me feel as, if you want to run a production car on the track hard your going to have to tune it up! So in stock form I'm going to be using a lot of TCS and maybe even ASM if it’s competitive.

I doubt it’s a skill issue when I have no problems with other simulators on the market. For now I’m convinced PD got something wrong with GT7 physics. Three days since launch and I still struggle as much as I did on release day. That probably won’t change unless the physics do in a future update.

Also, the “production cars need tuning” argument does not explain it either. For example, the Ford Focus RS comes from the factory optimized for track usage, but in GT7 it bounces around like an old Chevrolet Malibu. Upgrading with tuning parts helps somewhat, but it really shouldn’t be necessary for a car like the Focus RS, and even after upgrading there’s still something counterintuitive about the ways cars handle.

GT Sport physics weren’t broken. It comes across as if they wanted to enhance some aspects for GT7, but instead went too far and broke more than they improved.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I doubt it’s a skill issue when I have no problems with other simulators on the market. For now I’m convinced PD got something wrong with GT7 physics. Three days since launch and I still struggle as much as I did on release day. That probably won’t change unless the physics do in a future update.

Also, the “production cars need tuning” argument does not explain it either. For example, the Ford Focus RS comes from the factory optimized for track usage, but in GT7 it bounces around like an old Chevrolet Malibu. Upgrading with tuning parts helps somewhat, but it really shouldn’t be necessary for a car like the Focus RS, and even after upgrading there’s still something counterintuitive about the ways cars handle.

GT Sport physics weren’t broken. It comes across as if they wanted to enhance some aspects for GT7, but instead went too far and broke more than they improved.

It’s almost as if they’re pushing tuning so hard they’ve made default artificially bad to justify its existence. Probably doesn’t harm that you’ve got to spend considerable credits in the process

 

[Nielsen]

It’s almost as if they’re pushing tuning so hard they’ve made default artificially bad to justify its existence. Probably doesn’t harm that you’ve got to spend considerable credits in the process

The thought has crossed my mind as well, sadly.

 

[JDMKING13]

I doubt it’s a skill issue when I have no problems with other simulators on the market. For now I’m convinced PD got something wrong with GT7 physics. Three days since launch and I still struggle as much as I did on release day. That probably won’t change unless the physics do in a future update.

Also, the “production cars need tuning” argument does not explain it either. For example, the Ford Focus RS comes from the factory optimized for track usage, but in GT7 it bounces around like an old Chevrolet Malibu. Upgrading with tuning parts helps somewhat, but it really shouldn’t be necessary for a car like the Focus RS, and even after upgrading there’s still something counterintuitive about the ways cars handle.

GT Sport physics weren’t broken. It comes across as if they wanted to enhance some aspects for GT7, but instead went too far and broke more than they improved.

So because you cannot adapt to the physics they are broken… ok gotcha 👍 and please man if you don’t think tuning helps a production car designed for street driving help you push your car on a track and feel more confident I don’t know what to tell you… I drive with about 25 different members here on GTP league section… we have all talked and agreed GT7 physics while not perfect are in the right direction… and way better than sport… with no sorta issues you claim…

Edit:When I get a chance I will upload replay with a stock Miata… as I said before we can all talk but it would be a lot more convincing with replay footage.

 

[Peter.]

Braking while turning comes with a very substantial change in handling, which is a bit welcome, it does add to the once dull experience of driving FF cars in past GT's. That said, I drove a 370Z and the thing felt like it was trying to kill me, the RUF Yellowbird in past GT's was nicer to me than this. The dropoff between grip and loss of grip at the back is life or death, there is very little room for error.

But I will say though, that it makes the experience of driving even 'normal' cars a lot less mundane, I'm hacking away at the wheel constantly making minute adjustments, not too dissimilar to what the real life guys do and not really similar at all to what it was like in past GT's, Sport included. Maybe they have gone a tiny bit too far in the oversteer direction, but it might not be so bad once our GT muscle memory changes.

 

[JDMKING13]

Braking while turning comes with a very substantial change in handling, which is a bit welcome, it does add to the once dull experience of driving FF cars in past GT's. That said, I drove a 370Z and the thing felt like it was trying to kill me, the RUF Yellowbird in past GT's was nicer to me than this. The dropoff between grip and loss of grip at the back is life or death, there is very little room for error.

But I will say though, that it makes the experience of driving even 'normal' cars a lot less mundane, I'm hacking away at the wheel constantly making minute adjustments, not too dissimilar to what the real life guys do and not really similar at all to what it was like in past GT's, Sport included. Maybe they have gone a tiny bit too far in the oversteer direction, but it might not be so bad once our GT muscle memory changes.

Or people need to start using the electronic aids and stop ego tripping… I agree with what you said though.

 

[BolverkGTM]

Formula Ford's are a handful full stop. Despite running road legal tyres, Formula Ford are easy to oversteer, and exceed their limits at much lower speeds than most people would imagine. That however is a large part of the purpose behind them as a feeder series, as they demand you learn to be smooth and measured with all your inputs.

You're bringing up repressed memories referencing Formula Fords... But you're 100% correct. Dealing with a road legal tire and how that behaves compared to a slick is a whole different ball game.

You can actually change tire width now just to let you know! We still need tire pressure adjustment though!

I just informed all my league members I strongly suggest using TC and ASM during league play for GT7 it’s going to be very interesting with these new dynamics in within the physics!

League play, you say…? 👀

 

[Scaff]

AC/ACC (<1.07) use a single point model for efficiency, with that point being the very center of the tire surface. Unlike GTS / GT7 where the single-point calculation is any point within the tire collision mesh that has the least traction.

You know this or your guessing this?

This is the key difference. In this scenario within GT the tire would immediately change to the "curb" traction because it has made contact. It would not have the partial-curb-mostly-tarmac traction of reality.

The evidence lies in how GT behaves when you reach the edge of the racing surface and a tire comes in contact with a blade of grass, or now with the new drying line for rain conditions, when the tire contacts the wet surface at all.

Guessing it is then.

None of which explains your issue, and repeated focus on a single -point model, when your on dry tarmac alone. I've also crossed that point with the edge of the tyre and had no issue, so don't see this as being objectively proven at all.

 

[RedRockValley]

It’s almost as if they’re pushing tuning so hard they’ve made default artificially bad to justify its existence. Probably doesn’t harm that you’ve got to spend considerable credits in the process

Not sure if I agree with this. I put Sports Softs on the NA Eunos and it handled completely fine for me, no real "tuning" needed.

 

[pumaATTACK]

What are peoples DS4 controller settings?

 

[PirovacBoy]

.. I was told we have both a liner brake and throttle now… I can be on my pedals slightly and the input I’m seeing on the meter is way more than it would be in GTS.. like a lot more, it’s a huge difference..

Out of curiosity, do you play Project Cars 2, if so, is it comparable ?
Would be awesome 😎

 

[Peter.]

Or people need to start using the electronic aids and stop ego tripping… I agree with what you said though.

Valid point, but not too fair to assume people are ego tripping. Yes real life cars have explicit and hidden assists that most drivers never turn off or could be comfortable without, but real life cars also have a lot more in terms of feedback to work with than a mere FFB or DD steering wheel.

The cars are not just behaving in a way that some with real life experience find odd, but also in a way that morehardcore sims are more user friendly, which is wild. I can't speak to that since I don't play those games, or race IRL, but I can say that I like it, I like that finding the limit is trickier and you have to be more preemptive than ever, rather than just throwing it in and aiming for exit kerbs, and it is the right kind of move for GT, just not perfect right now. Yes, driving a no downforce, stock 370Z at speed on default tyres is going to be harder to handle than a GT4 or GT3 car on slicks, but it shouldn't feel like it wants to kill me, either.

 

[kilesa4568]

I understand some of the concerns and issues of some drivers/players here and I don't want to alleviate those concerns/concerns. But I personally can only say at the moment that I really like GT7. Has it become more difficult/challenging than GTS? Yes, definitely, but this is more about road vehicles, the GT ( GT500 / GT3 / GT4 ) vehicles that I have already driven/tested behave very well and are also controllable up to a very high level.
There are also points that you can get a grip on later setup. Important for all those who have big problems with strong oversteer, pay particular attention to 2 points during setup.
On the one hand, the stability at high speeds should have a positive value if possible AND especially on the G forces when cornering, here especially the G forces at high speeds. It takes a while to achieve really good values here and, above all, to find out which combinations are most effective here.

I totally agree with the grip in the rain, it's low and sometimes very demanding, but it shouldn't get boring after all.

Incidentally, driving aids are a blessing and not a curse, especially when it rains, and nobody should be ashamed to use them, if you say otherwise, you are welcome to leave them deactivated and I will then overtake you in the race.

I highly recommend everyone to take it slow, relax and play GT7 like a whole new game, not like an upgrade from GTS. The gas pedal alone is finally really good and really linear, as it should be, and this is where a lot of mistakes are made. Releasing too much in a corner is just as deadly as over-accelerating. I myself drove a "nice" 3-series BMW 3L diesel with tuning for a few years. Anyone who turns off the little helpers and then was too rough with the gas pedal on "bad/wet" roads would have flown hopelessly.

I recommend everyone to first drive ALL licenses to gold, then compare them with their friends and try to beat the best time... You will be surprised and you will get used to the new physics much better.
I've got everything on gold and some pretty good times too so I'm happy at the moment. Now I'm working on the café to have all the routes, especially the Nordschleife, and then I'll expand my fleet and try to improve my gold times.

By the way:

S-10 was the really hardest but also the most interesting challenge and getting through it with gold and a good time showed me that it's definitely possible... but it's very difficult to deal with the different grips of the track. It's relatively difficult to see on the PS4 Pro, so you had to know beforehand where the less grip is and where the ideal line is.

As it is now, I'm getting zero feedback from the rear and having to drive by sight rather than feel. My wheel still works properly in other games so it looks like I'll have to wait till the game matures a bit with patches before I start pushing GT7.

The one thing I noticed about the feedback was the understeer effect was more powerful than GTS so it might be drowning out the signal to the rears on my old belt driven wheel. Maybe I'm getting too much feedback for the wheel to cope with? I dunno.

Either way, for someone who avoids FF's like the plague, even though their oversteer style in GT7 is very funny... the game isn't playable for me yet.

 

[AlexWilmot]

What are peoples DS4 controller settings?

+5

 

[Scaff]

Ford Focus RS comes from the factory optimized for track usage

Really?

"On Bedford’s West Circuit the Focus RS was somewhat hampered by its weight – it was fast at the beginning of the lap but its times dropped off as the brakes and tyres struggled towards the end of each lap. At 1:26.9 It was faster than the SEAT (by 0.9sec) but 0.7sec slower than the tenacious Type-R.

The RS’s unruly nature saw it struggle in some of the faster corners such as Tower where the Civic could manage an 83mph maximum, nearly 10mph faster than the RS which was impeded by its tendency to oversteer. Ultimately the RS was fun, but not the quickest."

Ford marketing blub aside, it's not the most track focused of the hot hatches, and like almost every car designed for everyday road use, its compromised on the track. I've literally lost count of the number of road cars I've driven on-track and with very, very few exceptions (such as a Radical SR3) they are almost all limited by the requirements of being road legal and more importantly having to be driven day to day.

Even those such as the RS (or my own I30n) that have adaptive damper settings that are almost unusable on the road still fall into that category (and Hyundai even go so far as to warranty N cars for track use). Are they less compromised than your day to day commuter cars? Yes, but they are still principally designed for fast road use, and the higher terminal speeds and forces (in all directions) that a track throws at a car will expose just that.

This video is perhaps the most illustrative example of this, a BTCC car vs a McLaren P1 at Silverstone, same driver and the BTCC lap was with traffic during qualy. The P1 is nowhere near as settled and as controllable as the Touring Car, despite being perhaps one of the more extreme example of a road car "factory optimized for track usage".

Ford Focus RS review – Ford Focus RS vs rivals | Evo

The Focus RS impresses with strong performance and great handling

www.evo.co.uk

 

[Yard_Sale]

Probably the wrong thread for this question, but it’s the only thread in this forum that my question will get a reply.

To you wheel users, are you having an issue with the brake being suuuuper sensitive? I love the fact that it’s linear, it feels so much like ACC. But with no deadzone in game to adjust, I can’t put even a modicum of pressure on it while not in use. GTS was sensitive too, but not like this. Anyone got any suggestions?

I’m on a set of the old CSL elite load cells

 

[BigSarj]

I drive without TCS because I'm trying to develop my skill as much as I can. I don't plan on hitting up sport mode until I get a good handle on the physics.

I'm just happy the physics are so improved. It's like a brand new game and a new chapter in my gaming life. I have had the same dejected feeling of thinking I'm not good enough, just like when I first went online in GT Sport and realized how slow I was compared to everyone else. And that's a good thing! I now have a goal in mind and I will, at my own pace, try to reach that goal.

Oh, I know I bring up Z28's videos a lot here but something he said in his guide for S-10: "If you think you're going slow, you're probably going fast.". This is especially true for those trying to unlearn the GTS inputs.

@Yard_Sale I have the same pedals and honestly, I got faster once I set Brake Force to "off" on the wheel. I just give it these tiny dabs to control the balance and it's just so much easier when there is little to no resistance. I know that the theory is that you can't quite be as precise when the brake force is so low but I guess I'm the exception because I feel that I can tell the difference between 10% and 20% pretty easily. So far, brake modulation has been the easiest part of driving for me.

 

[danardif1]

Probably the wrong thread for this question, but it’s the only thread in this forum that my question will get a reply.

To you wheel users, are you having an issue with the brake being suuuuper sensitive? I love the fact that it’s linear, it feels so much like ACC. But with no deadzone in game to adjust, I can’t put even a modicum of pressure on it while not in use. GTS was sensitive too, but not like this. Anyone got any suggestions?

I’m on a set of the old CSL elite load cells

What is the brake force setting you've got on the wheel itself?

 

[Scaff]

Probably the wrong thread for this question, but it’s the only thread in this forum that my question will get a reply.

To you wheel users, are you having an issue with the brake being suuuuper sensitive? I love the fact that it’s linear, it feels so much like ACC. But with no deadzone in game to adjust, I can’t put even a modicum of pressure on it while not in use. GTS was sensitive too, but not like this. Anyone got any suggestions?

I’m on a set of the old CSL elite load cells

I'm actually really happy with the brakes having come from GTS, I'm running a set of Thrustmaster L-PCM's (load cell) with two Red F30 springs and all the pre-load spacers in place (which basically reduces the pre-load as much as possible).

After GTS being an utter pain with brake progression, I've found GT7 to be the complete opposite in that regard.

 

[kilesa4568]

Probably the wrong thread for this question, but it’s the only thread in this forum that my question will get a reply.

To you wheel users, are you having an issue with the brake being suuuuper sensitive? I love the fact that it’s linear, it feels so much like ACC. But with no deadzone in game to adjust, I can’t put even a modicum of pressure on it while not in use. GTS was sensitive too, but not like this. Anyone got any suggestions?

I’m on a set of the old CSL elite load cells

Snatchy at first but as Scaff said, it does feel better once you get used to them. TLCM's here.