Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[fortbo]

I can second this, I've driven cars that felt really stiff on the road only to find they become quite wobbly on a track, the speeds and stresses you're putting on the car are not comparable at all.

My history of car ownership leads towards sporty hatchbacks, they are all sporty feeling road cars rather than track cars that are road legal and none are nearly as capable or stiff on a track as my friends MK2 Golf race car is.

This so much, some of the stiffest stock suspension setups literally feel like a pillow when they’re thrown around on track. It’s a huge difference to a proper track suspension. Even an AMG GTS which rides very stiff for a road car still has a ton of body roll on track in comparison to a full competition suspension. The main reason why I’m working with KW to get a competition suspension setup for it. Any suspension that meets road requirements will have some sort of compromise on track.

 

[jeffdesign]

Me, after I play 20hours in GT7 and after return in GT Sport fun a try, I always play without any help, I prefer by far the GT Sport physic. Way more fun.



I'm almost always sideways or on powerslide in GT Sport except some eavy powerful car.



In GT7, it's almost impossible to powersilde low power car, like the 350z or the E46 M3. It's finish almost everytime in a wipout. I can't imagine a extrem powerful car.



Driving a RWD on rain it's wrost, It's like driving on Ice with summer tires.



I do some test with the same car and same track/condition (E36 on wet Redbull Ring) and I have so much fun in GT Sport, filling like I drive the car in real live. (It's pretty easy to drift this car on wet road.) But in GT7, all turn finish with a full spin.

 

[mattikake]

I'm wondering... could the physics be different between the two consoles? A processing delay would create a world of difference when it comes to managing oversteer. Who in this thread has a PS4 and who has a PS5?

 

[fortbo]

Me, after I play 20hours in GT7 and after return in GT Sport fun a try, I always play without any help, I prefer by far the GT Sport physic. Way more fun.



I'm almost always sideways or on powerslide in GT Sport except some eavy powerful car.



In GT7, it's almost impossible to powersilde low power car, like the 350z or the E46 M3. It's finish almost everytime in a wipout. I can't imagine a extrem powerful car.



Driving a RWD on rain it's wrost, It's like driving on Ice with summer tires.



I do some test with the same car and same track/condition (E36 on wet Redbull Ring) and I have so much fun in GT Sport, filling like I drive the car in real live. (It's pretty easy to drift this car on wet road.) But in GT7, all turn finish with a full spin.

Unless you’re on full wets, driving street tires in the rain on a lot of tracks will feel incredibly slick. Some track like Mid Ohio have even felt comparable to ice. A few years ago I even looped an AWD Audi there going around 30 in heavy wet conditions. Generally, race tracks in the wet will have less grip than a road due to the amount of rubber laid down, which is why there’s a wet line that you run in the rain which is off line from the usual racing line just to avoid as much of that rubber as possible.

 

[BigSarj]

All this talk of tires and suspension but what do we think about the supposedly new aero model? Has anyone done any testing?

 

[Pfei]

Generally, race tracks in the wet will have less grip than a road due to the amount of rubber laid down

Which is also why the newspapers in desert cities like Las Vegas and Phoenix are full of articles about car accidents after a rain shower. There is hardly any rain there so oil and rubber really build up on the streets. When the rains come it becomes an ice rink. I know because I used to live in Vegas.

 

[JDMKING13]

All this talk of tires and suspension but what do we think about the supposedly new aero model? Has anyone done any testing?

I mean you can definitely tell the difference when your in a track ready/ race car compared to stock production car. Did you feel the downforce with some of those race cars compared to the stock cars during those license test? That was killing me! Going from race car to a stock production car on GT7 is more of a difference then GTS..

 

[Pfei]

All this talk of tires and suspension but what do we think about the supposedly new aero model? Has anyone done any testing?

Slipstream is definitely weaker (more realistic) than in GTS. I haven't tried anything to test dirty air yet. Downforce on race cars, or from tuner wings, can definitely be felt on the wheel via much stronger FFB torque.

Kaz had mentioned atmospheric pressure in his presentation, too. I wonder what's going on with that. I find it hard to believe that a game without tire pressures would be simulating the effects of atmospheric pressure.

 

[///M3]

I mean you can definitely tell the difference when your in a track ready/ race car compared to stock production car. Did you feel the downforce with some of those race cars compared to the stock cars during those license test? That was killing me! Going from race car to a stock production car on GT7 is more of a difference then GTS..

I’ve driven a radical SR3 on track a few times and that is always what blows me away.

The lateral grip which even in low speed stuff is absolutely mental, alongside the actual corner speed you can, even acceleration is on par with my fireblade!

I always feel like there is two physics models in GT, the track day one where you tweak and try and run what you brung vs the race stuff.

I don’t think I’ve ever got a road car to get anywhere close to feeling like even the junior cup stuff. As fast, yeah but never quite as complete all round.

 

[Scaff]

Unless you’re on full wets, driving street tires in the rain on a lot of tracks will feel incredibly slick. Some track like Mid Ohio have even felt comparable to ice. A few years ago I even looped an AWD Audi there going around 30 in heavy wet conditions. Generally, race tracks in the wet will have less grip than a road due to the amount of rubber laid down, which is why there’s a wet line that you run in the rain which is off line from the usual racing line just to avoid as much of that rubber as possible.

Other factors people are often unaware of with tracks is the finer aggregate grade used in comparison to public roads, along with the lack of a crown in the profile makes for much quicker build ups in standing water.

Public roads are designed to drain water off quickly, while tracks are designed to offer the optimum surface for racing on slicks.

 

[BigSarj]

Slipstream is definitely weaker (more realistic) than in GTS. I haven't tried anything to test dirty air yet. Downforce on race cars, or from tuner wings, can definitely be felt on the wheel via much stronger FFB torque.

Kaz had mentioned atmospheric pressure in his presentation, too. I wonder what's going on with that. I find it hard to believe that a game without tire pressures would be simulating the effects of atmospheric pressure.

Yeah, I was asking more about the slipstream and dirty air. I think adjusting certain parameters based on track altitude could be easy enough. This, of course, would also affect fuel consumption.

 

[kilesa4568]

I'm wondering... could the physics be different between the two consoles? A processing delay would create a world of difference when it comes to managing oversteer. Who in this thread has a PS4 and who has a PS5?

PS4 here and having serious force feedback issues on a T300.

My theory (one of them anyway) is that the game thinks I'm on one of the new DD's and it's swamping it with instructions. My old G29 did the same thing in GTS during tank slappers but in GT7, it quits the instant the rears lose grip. By the time I spot it on TV, it's already too late.

It's not something I can adapt to anyway. Not without half killing myself with manic steering corrections.

 

[///M3]

Other factors people are often unaware of with tracks is the finer aggregate grade used in comparison to public roads, along with the lack of a crown in the profile makes for much quicker build ups in standing water.

Public roads are designed to drain water off quickly, while tracks are designed to offer the optimum surface for racing on slicks.

That’s sort of true.

Most tracks want water to drain, but they sink over time. Silverstone had to redo huge parts of the track to address the bumps and puddles almost lost F1 because of it.

Also most public roads in the UK are terrible, they are designed to let some water go but my god the raised centre (position 2) and the crappy camber it makes it hard to read the road for debris and ideal lines in the UK at least.

 

[JDMKING13]

PS4 here and having serious force feedback issues on a T300.

My theory (one of them anyway) is that the game thinks I'm on one of the new DD's and it's swamping it with instructions. My old G29 did the same thing in GTS during tank slappers but in GT7, it quits the instant the rears lose grip. By the time I spot it on TV, it's already too late.

It's not something I can adapt to anyway. Not without half killing myself with manic steering corrections.

Did you update your firmware? I was at ver 30 ver 34 is the latest update.

 

[danardif1]

All this talk of tires and suspension but what do we think about the supposedly new aero model? Has anyone done any testing?

A good test would be Route X and different ride height combinations

 

[sumbrownkid]

Now that I think about it, does PD model the surface grip of each track?

 

[SupaGT]

The Physics/Handling are weird in this one. Cars are so snappy on oversteer correction. I was so pumped to see the steering angle option in the tuning section (thinking it was going to be adjustable) sadly it doesn't seem to make a difference at all. When i initally tried drifting with my Supra, it was almost impossible, but now that i've thrown a proper drift setup at it, it has gotten alot better, although it's far from great. Nice to see that suspension adjustments seem to have a much larger effect now though.

 

[s0cks]

Quick threw this together. The gift Miata from the beginning. Literally first time driving the car in this game (unless it was in one of the early license tests, can't remember) and these are my first 5 laps with it. The car is all stock except for Sport Softs and the BBS RS wheels and paint to make it look like my Miata did

Track is Suzuka Club because I think this is a perfect bit of track to test weight transitions and sustained traction through a long curve. The first turn being particularly difficult with heavy braking into a turn.

What I took away from this test is that I don't see anything entirely out of the ordinary. Because this is a 30 year old car on soft, factory suspension with a lot of suspension travel and all that ground clearance, the car wants to dive excessively under sudden hard braking. My second time into the turn goes perfectly and I manage it well. As the laps progress and I start trying to be more aggressive, with more aggressive inputs, i.e. harder faster application of the brakes, it upsets the balance of the car a lot.

As I said before: Smoothness is key. Old, soft sloppy cars will require you to manage the weight more.

Nice driving. Did these gen1 Miata's have TCS?

 

[Pfei]

Now that I think about it, does PD model the surface grip of each track?

This is an excellent question and is a rabbit hole I had never contemplated going down in Gran Turismo, or any sim for that matter. Just recently I started wondering about track grip levels when I upgraded from Logitech to Fanatec because in WRC 10, each surface change has a dramatic effect on the strength of the FFB. Loose gravel means a lighter wheel (less grip) while more compacted surfaces mean a heavier wheel (more grip). Tarmac is obviously the strongest resistance but even the different tarmac rallies have varying levels of grip, even differing multiple times within the same stage. I could never feel this with my Logitech. It was always a guessing game based on the ground surface vibration. Now I feel it in the wheel.

A good place to test this is at Nurburgring 24hs where the track meets the old road. Those should be two different surfaces.

 

[CarreraGT]

Most physics are improved. However, RWD car physics are broken. All the "real sim racers" can post about how good it is. Whatever.

Most people who have posted in this thread who actually drive one of the GT7 cars IRL (and especially the ones who track their cars) are saying the RWD physics are broken.

Numerous Miata AutoXers have already posted. I drive a 370Z and there is no way it spins like the license test on Tsukuba. Plenty of other examples in the 1,000+ posts here.

Just do not get mad when they fix the physics, which they will. They have changed the physics in every version since & including GT5.

My theory on the issue is that the game is overinterpreting steering input, where slight inputs are being interpreted as large inputs. I could be wrong, but that is how it feels to me.

All that said, I have found that putting a giant wing on RWD cars and dialing up the rear downforce helps dramatically. 😁 And once you get the death wobble, let off the throttle completely.


It does nothing on the G29. I have tried it back to back on both extremes and there is no difference. Doing the same test with both FFB settings and the difference is very noticeable.

I suppose it might do something for other wheels, but definitely not the G29. The very fact that the in game description says "wireless controllers" is clue #1.

Why would I get mad if they continue to develop the physics model? That's a strange comment.

I also track cars in real life and find GT7 much more realistic than GT Sport. Granted the snap oversteer can be a bit exaggerated in some RWD cars but it's still more realistic than GT Sport

 

[kilesa4568]

Did you update your firmware? I was at ver 30 ver 34 is the latest update.

Yes. I had old software on the pc saying 33 was the latest but after updating it, it saw 34.

I'm plodding on with the game for now, unlocking things and such so I'm ready for when the tweaks inevitably come.

 

[///M3]

I haven’t read all 41 pages but when we talk about physics are we talking how real road and track cars should/do behave vs how the game takes liberties with physics because apart from a few haptics from the Dual Sense up to fully hydraulic setups you aren’t going to “feel” real physics.

Just want to understand what we are talking about because for me lateral load is something I feel which I haven’t been able to feel from my wheel in any racing game, so part of me thinks the physics is designed around the game with the game in mind.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

People in A/A+, in daily race B, aren't struggling at all. Everyone is going fast, on the limit, and catching the sporadic slide. Very few, if anyone at all, uses anything more than ABS (I don't either).

Also, this is the closest, cleanest and most dynamic racing I've ever experienced in Gran Turismo.

As far as I'm concerned, zero changes need to be made. I just want a daily race C, championships and leagues!

--

I'm on a Fanatec DD Pro, 5/1 in-game for FFB.
Regarding brake pedal, I'm using the stock CSL but with removed foam for even less resistance.

--

When it comes to interpreting the FFB language, I'd say that "bumpy/twitchy" wheel means that the suspension is working and that you got grip. When it becomes heavy and totally smooth, your suspension is bottomed out, G-forces are maxed, and you better feather throttle/brake and get ready to react with countersteer lightning quick - or you're ****ed. When the wheel vibrates, you're under-/oversteering way too much.
I have zero issues feeling the limit.

Have I learnt the cues in the language? What's your experience?

 

[NikNakTobasco]

It might be a feedback issue more than anything. Because they’re aren’t communicating loss of traction it feels like it just snaps. Perhaps there’s a half second feedback cue we should be getting but aren’t.

 

[Scaff]

That’s sort of true.

Most tracks want water to drain, but they sink over time. Silverstone had to redo huge parts of the track to address the bumps and puddles almost lost F1 because of it.

Also most public roads in the UK are terrible, they are designed to let some water go but my god the raised centre (position 2) and the crappy camber it makes it hard to read the road for debris and ideal lines in the UK at least.

Indeed, but the fundamental design differences remain true.

 

[Seikenfreak]

Nice driving. Did these gen1 Miata's have TCS?

They did not. @JDMKING13 's video is an example of driving without it though. And he even did it on Comforts.

At some point, it is still a video game and it cannot replicate the sensations you feel in a real car. I'm sure you can drive a lot of these cars in game without traction control, but what's the point other than to personally challenge yourself. Which, be my guest. Or it could be used as a tool to practice car control with of course. As someone mentioned before, they attempted to gold all the licences with no TCS to better their abilities which I think is a good mindset to have.

 

[Nuschel01]

Also, to be clear, I don't really know what I'm doing with the tuning settings lol I have an idea of what things do but I can't grasp real suspension tuning and know exactly what to adjust for what scenario soo.. I just wing it, adjust things and see what changes.

Care to share those suspension settings? I'd like to try them myself when I get time

 

[///M3]

Indeed, but the fundamental design differences remain true.

To a degree, Brno has been axed from MotoGP due to how bad it is.

What tracks have is constant depositing of high quality rubber that fills all the pours. When the rain comes it has no where to go because all that rubber sits in the pours, hence going off line for grip traditionally because that part of the tarmac is more abrasive and less smoothed by being ‘rubber in’ in wet conditions. -added the wet caveat

The fundamental design differences are largely cost and maintenance, the materials can be similar but usually they opt for grippier short term surfaces rather than a road that should ideally last 30yrs before it’s resurfaced.

The biggest thing is the rubber you’d run on a road vs what you would want on a track. Cut slicks on a road would be something you’d need balls for, and Michelin PS4 cups will get you to the track and home but that’s a compromise.

 

[s0cks]

I only turned it off in GTS because

They did not. @JDMKING13 's video is an example of driving without it though. And he even did it on Comforts.

At some point, it is still a video game and it cannot replicate the sensations you feel in a real car. I'm sure you can drive a lot of these cars in game without traction control, but what's the point other than to personally challenge yourself. Which, be my guest. Or it could be used as a tool to practice car control with of course. As someone mentioned before, they attempted to gold all the licences with no TCS to better their abilities which I think is a good mindset to have.

I only turned it off in GTS because apparently you got better lap times without it. And tbh, it was pretty difficult to spin out in GTS (at least with the Gr cars) so you didn't need it. Do we know if TCS gives better lap times in GT7 once you're used to the physics? I'm just grinding the cafe menus and have yet to start hot lapping.

In single player though I prefer to mimic what the car would have had IRL. Problem is I'm not enough of a car nut to know. But it feels weird to me turning on TCS in a 70s Mustang for example, lol. Is there a sort of guide year I can use for when TCS became sorta standard?

 

[NikNakTobasco]

TC with gr3 cars isn’t anywhere near as intrusive as it was in sport. It only kicks in when there’s a genuine loss of traction. If you drive smoothly it doesn’t activate at all.