Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Pfei]

putting TCS on which now makes the game slightly numb as the game catches the slides which was my favourite thing

This is going to sound harsh, but sliding is the slowest way around a racetrack. You might prefer drifting in GT7 or a rally game. Nothing slows you down and burns up your tires more than sliding.

 

[platocplx]

It does make techniques like trail braking redundant to do, yet it’s more useful than left foot braking.

Also trimming speed with a gentle scrub of brake works in all cars, in GT7 though the front dives and washes away

Yeah weight is transferring a lot more here. But I think now trail braking is a bit more harder to do now than in the past, I think a lot of us are a back to basics scenario and peel back these layers as we go. Hell im even considering light TCS depending on the car.

 

[Pfei]

It all feels very natural to me, barring some of the RWD ice skate cars. Coming from an ACC, rF2, AMS2, AC player, and all the way back to the Papyrus NASCAR games in the early '90s. And I don't find the change particularly difficult, either. I think a lot of people have some major unlearning of GTS in their future if they hope to enjoy GT7.

 

[platocplx]

It all feels very natural to me, barring some of the RWD ice skate cars. Coming from an ACC, rF2, AMS2, AC player, and all the way back to the Papyrus NASCAR games in the early '90s. And I don't find the change particularly difficult, either. I think a lot of people have some major unlearning of GTS in their future if they hope to enjoy GT7.

Yup nailed it. Major unlearning to do here. They weren’t lying they had input on their physics it shows lol.

 

[JDMKING13]

I cannot stress the fact of using TCS I was doing blue moon bay in my stock mustang GT 15’ and doing high speed hitting the banks is a nightmare… again trying to win that race the car is not set up right in its stock form… I guarantee you… nobody would drive on that track on RL like you would in GT.. you would not hit those speeds and be comfortable hitting those banks with no electronic aids on! GT7 gives me that same sensation.. I kept on spinning out and just knew I had to use TCS… first attempt with TCS on I beat the event easy and it doesn’t bother me a bit… gives GT that realistic factor I always wanted from playing AC.

 

[///M3]

Yeah weight is transferring a lot more here. But I think now trail braking is a bit more harder to do now than in the past, I think a lot of us are a back to basics scenario and peel back these layers as we go. Hell im even considering light TCS depending on the car.

Maybe it’s the weight thing which sounds like it could be it, I also subjectively feel the sense of speed is different but I’m getting older and largely skipped GTS for rFactor or iRacing

 

[SkyHigh]

It all feels very natural to me, barring some of the RWD ice skate cars. Coming from an ACC, rF2, AMS2, AC player, and all the way back to the Papyrus NASCAR games in the early '90s. And I don't find the change particularly difficult, either. I think a lot of people have some major unlearning of GTS in their future if they hope to enjoy GT7.

Great post, my thoughts the same. RWD tend to to be oversteery but it's nothing close to broken, and manageable. I'm really enjoying the ´physics. GTS plays like stuff after this one. (after AC too)

 

[Ske]

People have also mentioned turning down their steering sensitivity on controller helped them.

I did do that, but with my wheel. I have a GT DD and forcing 1080 degrees (or even higher) made the cars feel much more natural to me.

The one-way LSD was just thrown on to see what it would change and it did feel like it stabilized it. Like most of these other games, it seems like LSDs can have a huge effect on traction on turn-in and exit behavior so a lot of the troublesome stuff or inherent behavior of a car can be tuned out with an LSD. LSDs are so confusing to me that I don't even bother trying to get into the details like Ske has. I might steal some his ideas though and try generally stiffening things up.

LSDs can be a powerful tool once you understand them.
In short:

• More accel lock makes it easier to power oversteer as both wheels will spin at the same time
• Less accel lock increases the chance of spinning the unloaded (inside) wheel but lets one wheel grip longer, reducing potential traction but making the transition to power oversteer a lot less brutal
• More decel lock limits turning/increases braking stability
• Less decel lock allows the car to turn more freely while decelerating
• Initial is (I think) the minimum amount of locking force that's always applied

Hence, low accel and high decel allows more aggressive pedal use without loss of control - at the cost of traction potential/turn-in eagerness.

Edit: And yes, the LSD in GT7 seems to work as expected (which wasn't always the case for GT)

 

[cowboyjon]

Ain't gonna lie, that race around the nurburgring for some cup or other... When it started raining and the entire track seemingly turned into oil slicked ice I damn near took my steering wheel into the garden to set it on fire.

 

[platocplx]

Maybe it’s the weight thing which sounds like it could be it, I also subjectively feel the sense of speed is different but I’m getting older and largely skipped GTS for rFactor or iRacing

Seeing some extreme stuff where people break the model with cars sent flying makes me think it’s the case that weight has a big emphasis in this one vs the other game. But pretty much rule of thumb in following is brake earlier. Will play around seeing how the game suggests brake zones and take em off. Just to see how close it is now braking wise.

 

[JDMKING13]

Ain't gonna lie, that race around the nurburgring for some cup or other... When it started raining and the entire track seemingly turned into oil slicked ice I damn near took my steering wheel into the garden to set it on fire.

Bro the S-10 license had my family not talking to me… they stayed in the back of the house… took me two hours to gold! This morning while I was getting the kids ready for school they asked me daddy “ why did you keep saying what are you doing Anthony… your better than this Anthony and screaming can’t take this anymore” I was cracking up and told them S-10

 

[///M3]

Seeing some extreme stuff where people break the model with cars sent flying makes me think it’s the case that weight has a big emphasis in this one vs the other game. But pretty much rule of thumb in following is brake earlier. Will play around seeing how the game suggests brake zones and take em off. Just to see how close it is now braking wise.

I’ve been trying to brake earlier, and coast more which works but I have all the hud markers off so it’s a bit of learning especially in the changing weathers picking braking and turn in points.

Competitively there isn’t much lost braking early or coasting but against the AI it’s hit and miss as they seem to still drive randomly which is distracting.

 

[Seikenfreak]

So are we sure yet that when the ring around your tire icons goes red on the HUD, that seems to reflect brake temp? Because it only seems to do it when I brake reeeeally hard and often the car doesn't stop. But if I keep my pedal pressure just a bit less, the red doesnt seem to appear.

 

[Nuschel01]

[...]

Red border around tires indicates traction loss.

 

[JDMKING13]

I am just truly excited… GT7 is kinda of a shocker for me I was not expecting this from the driving.. I’m in a Porsche GT3 Cup series and we are so excited and eager for our testing day to see how much the new physics is going to impact our season…

I also have my own league in the works and with how every is shaping up it looks like GT7 is going to be the perfect fit… I have much adjustment to do though.. example the tire selection I had in GTS is going to have to change big time… We had two ratings tire system… Street grade and track grade. Take a Michelin Pilot sport cup 2 during any full blown track day it would be a SM tire vs when we did street events it would be a SH because of the heat difference between track driving and street… now I’m going to have to test all this over again but I’m excited to do so!

@Seikenfreak That’s indicating your tires are over heating… In GTS you had to be sliding off the track or at the very last moment before the tires went red… IN GT7 you can make them red in an instant from poor breaking.

 

[Scaff]

OK, so I ran two of the problem cars around the 'ring tonight. First off the stock NA MX-5, have to be utterly honest it wasn't a problem at all, then I took the R35 out for a trip and I think I may know what some of the issues are that people are finding, particularly at the 'ring. Fuchsrohe is the best example to illustrate this, and I double-checked with a 'ring guide I've got, the compression is absolutely massive at that point, and a 1,700-kilo car arriving at full chat into a compression that deep is going to fully compress the suspension. In a compression that 'ring guides warn you to not brake in, or do anything to unsettle the car, that's only going to be bad news. I found that scrubbing a bit of speed off as you approach the compression is enough to get you through with the car settled.

Now never having driven an R35 through that section I can't attest to how accurate the approach is, but the logic behind the problem and solution are sound enough.

Maybe it’s the weight thing which sounds like it could be it, I also subjectively feel the sense of speed is different but I’m getting older and largely skipped GTS for rFactor or iRacing

The sense of speed in GT7 (and for most GT titles) kind of sucks, so it's far too easy to be going a lot quicker than you think.

 

[D_Dragline]

So then I guess give me a car/track combo with settings and maybe a lap time for some sort've guideline and I'll try it. I've seen people say the Miata should not be hard to drive? I've owned a Miata and AutoX'd it a few times. I need a laptime to go off though. If a car is so difficult to drive in game then it should be hard to put down a decent lap time. What tires? Comforts are pointless because those are basically all-season crap tires that no one uses in the real world. Is there a certain tire that is broken? I've seen people saying slicks are broken and sports are good? But hards are broken or are softs good? I guess don't even need a laptime. Can just drive it and upload the replay, hopefully demonstrating how it can be driven.

Otherwise, why are we even here wasting time arguing about this.

This conflates 2 different issues. It is possible to think the physics isn’t quite right and still be able to drive fast laps.

If I can get a car around a track faster than you does that somehow invalidate your opinion on the physics and validate mine?

 

[JDMKING13]

OK, so I ran two of the problem cars around the 'ring tonight. First off the stock NA MX-5, have to be utterly honest it wasn't a problem at all, then I took the R35 out for a trip and I think I may know what some of the issues are that people are finding, particularly at the 'ring. Fuchsrohe is the best example to illustrate this, and I double-checked with a 'ring guide I've got, the compression is absolutely massive at that point, and a 1,700-kilo car arriving at full chat into a compression that deep is going to fully compress the suspension. In a compression that 'ring guides warn you to not brake in, or do anything to unsettle the car, that's only going to be bad news. I found that scrubbing a bit of speed off as you approach the compression is enough to get you through with the car settled.

Now never having driven an R35 through that section I can't attest to how accurate the approach is, but the logic behind the problem and solution are sound enough.

The sense of speed in GT7 (and for most GT titles0 kind of sucks, so it's far too easy to be going a lot quicker than you think.

Great information! I feel as GT7 sense of speed is a lot better than GTS… I can’t really tell the difference between ACC and GT7… I never played PC sims and seen they can run high FPS… does this help that sensation?

@D_Dragline The issue isn’t about speed people are complaining they cannot take the car out for just a normal drive without spinning..

 

[Scaff]

Great information! I feel as GT7 sense of speed is a lot better than GTS… I can’t really tell the difference between ACC and GT7… I never played PC sims and seen they can run high FPS… does this help that sensation?

Framerate smooths things out, ideally, you want 60fps+, but frame pacing is also important, however, neither really factor in when it comes to sense speed. Getting the right FOV, and having a good size screen does that (or ideally triple-screens or best of all VR).

 

[RedRockValley]

Tried a 2017 Suzuki Swift build, 150hp and around 830-850kg, widebody and soft racing slicks... Stuck to the road like glue. So, so much better than GT Sport.

 

[Seikenfreak]

This conflates 2 different issues. It is possible to think the physics isn’t quite right and still be able to drive fast laps.

If I can get a car around a track faster than you does that somehow invalidate your opinion on the physics and validate mine?

Not really. The example videos weren't intended to be a guide book on how to drive, hot lap times, lines to take etc. I certainly don't want to be a teacher. There are people better than me.

I guess it was intended to show the game I am playing. As in, here is me playing GT7, this is how it plays for me. I'm driving relatively fast and I'm not having any sort've weird problems and the cars aren't undriveable. And this is what I am basing my feedback off of. Are their occasional moments when I lose control of a car and get a tank slapper? Of course.. Just like real life.

I think what would help is if there was more descriptive feedback or understanding of what exactly the problem is that some people are having. And that's best understood with video footage. Is the problem your ability to play the game? Or is it a problem in the game? I don't know. Maybe you're a much faster driver than me with more experience. A persons ability to put down a general lap time can be an indicator of their ability though. Also, examples of troublesome cars/tracks. As Scaff just demonstrated above, we can either provide our own feedback on that particular situation or we can upload a replay of being able to drive that just fine.

🤷‍♂️

 

[JDMKING13]

Not really. The example videos weren't intended to be a guide book on how to drive, hot lap times, lines to take etc. I certainly don't want to be a teacher. There are people better than me.

I guess it was intended to show the game I am playing. As in, here is me playing GT7, this is how it plays for me. I'm driving relatively fast and I'm not having any sort've weird problems and the cars aren't undriveable. And this is what I am basing my feedback off on. Are their occasional moments when I lose control of a car and get a tank slapper? Of course.. Just like real life.

I think what would help is if there was more descriptive feedback or understand of what exactly the problem is that some people are having. And that's best understood with video footage. Is the problem your ability to play the game? Or is it a problem in the game? I don't know. Maybe you're a much faster driver than me with more experience. A persons ability to put down a general lap time can be an indicator of their ability though. Also, examples of troublesome cars/tracks. As Scaff just demonstrated above, we can either provide our own feedback on that particular situation or we can upload a replay of being able to drive that just fine.

🤷‍♂️

It starts to be frustrating when people say the game drives like crap you ask them ok fine what’s the problem, but it’s just words… so it makes it hard to judge the situation correctly.

 

[RedRockValley]

I still think some people here would have a much easier time if they lowered their sensitivity (if they're using a gamepad like I am, that is) to -1, like Pfei suggested.

Catching slides is way easier when the steering sensitivity isn't twitchy as hell.

 

[Greyman]

New to the forum, just thought I’d wade into the physics debate…

I never played GT Sport, this is my first Gran Turismo game for a very long time and I’ve been mainly playing Assetto Corsa and Projects Cars for the few years I’ve had a wheel/pedal setup. Coming from those games I’m finding the handling model totally intuitive and I’m not really struggling in the slightest with it so far.

I find it very reminiscent of the original Assetto Corsa. The force feedback on GT7 is perhaps not quite as communicative at the limit and AC is therefore a tiny bit more manageable in those moments but we’re talking pretty small margins. The overall feel is very much in the same ballpark to me.

Having something that feels so close to AC but with so much more content and visual polish is very enjoyable indeed. A little more refinement and VR support would make GT7 close to perfection to me!

 

[RedRockValley]

New to the forum, just thought I’d wade into the physics debate…

I never played GT Sport, this is my first Gran Turismo game for a very long time and I’ve been mainly playing Assetto Corsa and Projects Cars for the few years I’ve had a wheel/pedal setup. Coming from those games I’m finding the handling model totally intuitive and I’m not really struggling in the slightest with it so far.

I find it very reminiscent of the original Assetto Corsa. The force feedback on GT7 is perhaps not quite as communicative at the limit and AC is therefore a tiny bit more manageable in those moments but we’re talking pretty small margins. The overall feel is very much in the same ballpark to me.

Having something that feels so close to AC but with so much more content and visual polish is very enjoyable indeed. A little more refinement and VR support would make GT7 close to perfection to me!

I totally agree, it's like AC but with way, way better controller support.

Now all we need is some tight mountain courses and I'd be in heaven...

 

[kilesa4568]

It starts to be frustrating when people say the game drives like crap you ask them ok fine what’s the problem, but it’s just words… so it makes it hard to judge the situation correctly.

It doesn't drive like crap, in fact I'm actually enjoying it now but it does have its faults. Cars are very fidgety under heavy braking, high speed instability on cambered roads and a very clunky low speed loss of grip in all 4 tyres. If you're not expecting them, they can be bloody annoying.

 

[Seikenfreak]

It starts to be frustrating when people say the game drives like crap you ask them ok fine what’s the problem, but it’s just words… so it makes it hard to judge the situation correctly.

And I guess it's peoples unwillingness to try something different or reflect on themselves. It's "Nope. Car X should not behave like this. I've driven car Y around some back roads fairly quickly and it never does that. Game is broken" or "The cars in GT Sport didn't have any of these problems. The game is broken."

Are you looking at your speed? As Scaff just pointed out, there isn't a good sense of speed, kind of like watching real in-car video footage it looks like you're driving regular speeds vs what you are actually doing on track. It may feel like you're going 20mph around that hairpin, but if you manage to look down, you're probably going 60+ or something.

Are you analyzing how you just took that corner that might explain the cars behavior? Did you brake late? Did you brake hard? Did you come off the brakes too fast? Was it wet? Is the car on bicycle tires? Was there a subtle bump in the turn that upset the car? Did you hit the curbing? Jerk the wheel left and right, even a small amount, very quickly? What is the configuration of the car i.e. FR, FF, RR, MR and can what just happened be explained by where the weight is in the car? Is the car very heavy or very light? Are you using a controller or a wheel?

The list goes on and on. I remember playing Live for Speed for the first time 15-20 years ago and being like OMG this is so HARD but I stuck with it. That's also where I learned how to heel-toe downshift because it was probably the first game that I played (I had played some GT Legends or GTR at that point actually) that would let you use both brake and throttle independently.

Be more open minded people. You could learn a lot about cars and racing, even if GT7 isn't the most realistic it can still be a doorway into the subject matter based in reality which you can then turn around and apply to this and other racing games.

 

[D_Dragline]

Not really. The example videos weren't intended to be a guide book on how to drive, hot lap times, lines to take etc. I certainly don't want to be a teacher. There are people better than me.

I guess it was intended to show the game I am playing. As in, here is me playing GT7, this is how it plays for me. I'm driving relatively fast and I'm not having any sort've weird problems and the cars aren't undriveable. And this is what I am basing my feedback off of. Are their occasional moments when I lose control of a car and get a tank slapper? Of course.. Just like real life.

I think what would help is if there was more descriptive feedback or understanding of what exactly the problem is that some people are having. And that's best understood with video footage. Is the problem your ability to play the game? Or is it a problem in the game? I don't know. Maybe you're a much faster driver than me with more experience. A persons ability to put down a general lap time can be an indicator of their ability though. Also, examples of troublesome cars/tracks. As Scaff just demonstrated above, we can either provide our own feedback on that particular situation or we can upload a replay of being able to drive that just fine.

🤷‍♂️

I'm at work at the moment, but if I get a chance tonight I'll try and induce a situation where I think the physics is breaking down and post a video. But this will not be footage of me driving a fast lap. I can do that and handle the cars just fine. Not everyone is claiming the cars are undriveable.

The issue I'm seeing is how some cars behave when you just exceed the limits.

 

[JDMKING13]

It doesn't drive like crap, in fact I'm actually enjoying it now but it does have its faults. Cars are very fidgety under heavy braking, high speed instability on cambered roads and a very clunky low speed loss of grip in all 4 tyres. If you're not expecting them, they can be bloody annoying.

That sounds like realistic to me! The traction control system is works In GT7 you can have it on three it still will not kick in if you accelerate right. It helps big time and for the people having trouble they should use it. I have found my self using because I don’t wanna concentrate as much when driving in these events.

Speaking of that PD has giving me a real true sensation on driving a car without electronic aids.. I’m driving my mustang in this cafe book challenge it is a breeze catching slides coming out of turns the TC is great I have it on 3… If I was doing events with my 930 I would have no TCS no ASM And no ABS…. Guys when I tell you even though I get the win the work is nowhere compared to that mustang! It makes the 930 that more special in my heart.. every time I’m in it I know the drive is going to be special…

In GTS it was just boring… I ran everything with TCS off and ASM and only kept ABS if the car had it, still compared to GT7 it not even close…

 

[Snake55wildcat]

I am getting honestly very frustrated with trying to make a handling focused RX-8 drive nicely for Daily B... but it just DOESNT WORK.. though this goes for most FR/MR cars in that they all love to friggin oversteer, im not sure what the issue is but the grip just doesnt feel adequeate on FR/MR cars heck, with the aformentioned RX-8, i was taking the final corner (of Deep Forest) and it spun around from a SLIGHT steering input... its ridiculous.

EDIT: i just slapped on some Dirt tyres and took the RX-8 rallying against Group B cars on Colorado Springs... no way it shoud've been able to keep up right? (custom race set to professional AI) and i felt like i had more control there than i do with sport tyres in oversteer situations.