Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[///M3]

They did not. @JDMKING13 's video is an example of driving without it though. And he even did it on Comforts.

At some point, it is still a video game and it cannot replicate the sensations you feel in a real car. I'm sure you can drive a lot of these cars in game without traction control, but what's the point other than to personally challenge yourself. Which, be my guest. Or it could be used as a tool to practice car control with of course. As someone mentioned before, they attempted to gold all the licences with no TCS to better their abilities which I think is a good mindset to have.

I agree, sometimes I use the aids, some times I turn them off. Sometimes I’ll use AT to study the lines other times I’ll use MT to get the most from the car (looking at you Fiat 500 up the god damn hill)

I adapt my approach to each of the races or challenges in front of me. There is no second place for being first with all the toolbox to use in front of you.

In a years time I’ll be everything turned off talking “hopefully” a yellow bird round the ring sliding and slapping Walter rhol by my side egging me on.

Until then I’ll just keep trying to figure this game out!

 

[JDMKING13]

I only turned it off in GTS because

I only turned it off in GTS because apparently you got better lap times without it. And tbh, it was pretty difficult to spin out in GTS (at least with the Gr cars) so you didn't need it. Do we know if TCS gives better lap times in GT7 once you're used to the physics? I'm just grinding the cafe menus and have yet to start hot lapping.

In single player though I prefer to mimic what the car would have had IRL. Problem is I'm not enough of a car nut to know. But it feels weird to me turning on TCS in a 70s Mustang for example, lol. Is there a sort of guide year I can use for when TCS became sorta standard?

You are right with the TCS in GTS it slows you down if you’re a fast driver… if you play ACC this is not the case you need TCS dearly to help you.

I have a group of buddies where we race, test, and set group challenges amongst each other. We try to mimic real life motorsports, car culture or just anything dealing with cars in a way you would in reality… for example that 70 mustang didn’t have TCS ASM or ABS… if we were using that car in one of our events… you wouldn’t be allowed to use any electronic aids when driving that car. That’s the reason you saw me use the Miata with no traction control or ASM… only ABS… I’m sure the Miata has ASM and TCS though in real life!

 

[kilesa4568]

Sat in the rig now, I've just felt the rear slide! I can feel the physics!

All I had to do was push the cable that had half slid out my wheel back in.

The physics don't feel like a huge step up from sport but there is a liveliness to it that I can't put my finger on but who cares, it's playable.

 

[MadmuppGT]

Here’s another example of how easy it is to loose a car under braking and corner entry. In this case I was driving an Audi S3 which is a front biased haldex AWD car, very close to the TTS in game. This is something that GT7 simulates much better compared to GTS. I do agree with the idea that harder doesn’t always mean more realistic, but easier doesn’t automatically make it more realistic too. There’s certain aspects of driving a street car on the limit that are just difficult no matter what. Skip to around the 33 second mark

While I appreciate cars can step out even FF cars. The issue with the real world over the game is you have other sensations to get feedback from, your feet, the weight shifting, even the feeling in your arse against the seat... and finally steering.

Where in game you have nothing then steering only, if you're using a cheap wheel like I am with the G29 it's essentially the same warning as someone shouting "NOW" 1 Second after it was time to react.

I do feel the physic set up is way to tail happy. I've had to turn Traction control on to even stand a chance of completing a lap.

I recently tried the Supra GT500 and it was snap over steer if I so much as looked at the accelerator and it wad the same with no pedal input at all essentially free wheeling around a curve the tail was kicking out... at slow speeds, we're talking 35-40mph no brakes or gas.

Now I know these cars are monsters but surely a free wheeling car at city speeds shouldn't be snapping the rear out so much.

Anyway it's just a bit frustrating because in GT Sport I enjoyed drive all types of cars and would get caught out when pushing it and it was fun.

But with GT7 seemingly being way to sensitive I feel I'm going to miss out on 90% of the game due to it being undrivable.

 

[///M3]

While I appreciate cars can step out even FF cars. The issue with the real world over the game is you have other sensations to get feedback from, your feet, the weight shifting, even the feeling in your arse against the seat... and finally steering.

Where in game you have nothing then steering only, if you're using a cheap wheel like I am with the G29 it's essentially the same warning as someone shouting "NOW" 1 Second after it was time to react.

I do feel the physic set up is way to tail happy. I've had to turn Traction control on to even stand a chance of completing a lap.

I recently tried the Supra GT500 and it was snap over steer if I so much as looked at the accelerator and it wad the same with no pedal input at all essentially free wheeling around a curve the tail was kicking out... at slow speeds, we're talking 35-40mph no brakes or gas.

Now I know these cars are monsters but surely a free wheeling car at city speeds shouldn't be snapping the rear out so much.

Anyway it's just a bit frustrating because in GT Sport I enjoyed drive all types of cars and would get caught out when pushing it and it was fun.

But with GT7 seemingly being way to sensitive I feel I'm going to miss out on 90% of the game due to it being undrivable.

The G29 is a fine wheel! Just about the right size, and the FFB is communicative. Have used some professional wheels and apart from a faster chatter rate they just seemed more powerful overall. Closer to how non PAS feels.

For me having now had a go with my wheel, it’s the peddle sensitivity and the absolute reluctance for the game to regain grip when lifting off due to understeer. It just doesn’t feel natural you go a little to hot, understeer naturally, lift off and yet the now freely rotating tyres refuse to grip, I’ll take the decreased speed and penalty for my judgement but there is little to no correction for it once it starts.

I’m not a driving god but I’ve managed to stay alive with some fast cars and motorbikes in the last 30 years….

 

[foxdylan]

R32 feels broken to me , can't seem to get round a hair pin with out it understeering off as if been pulled off the track .
Suzuka hair pin braked too 20mph and still understeered on the the grass .
Same with one of the Tokyo tracks I've ended up into the pits as the R32 wouldn't make it round the hair pin .
On sports softs .

Anyone else ?

 

[///M3]

R32 feels broken to me , can't seem to get round a hair pin with out it understeering off as if been pulled off the track .
Suzuka hair pin braked too 20mph and still understeered on the the grass .
Same with one of the Tokyo tracks I've ended up into the pits as the R32 wouldn't make it round the hair pin .
On sports softs .

Anyone else ?

Im coming to terms with the weird rear grip/lsd (stock) feel but the understeer thing is so counterintuitive it makes me scared to attack anything for a deeper line or correcting arriving 10mph to fast, if you try to scrub the brakes the car dives and understeers further.

 

[theluke]

R32 feels broken to me , can't seem to get round a hair pin with out it understeering off as if been pulled off the track .
Suzuka hair pin braked too 20mph and still understeered on the the grass .
Same with one of the Tokyo tracks I've ended up into the pits as the R32 wouldn't make it round the hair pin .
On sports softs .

Anyone else ?

Theres an issue at the moment if you have selected wide tyres and not the widebody apparently.

 

[floridaGTdude]

R32 feels broken to me , can't seem to get round a hair pin with out it understeering off as if been pulled off the track .
Suzuka hair pin braked too 20mph and still understeered on the the grass .
Same with one of the Tokyo tracks I've ended up into the pits as the R32 wouldn't make it round the hair pin .
On sports softs .

Anyone else ?

I've noticed with the R32 at full lock through the tokyo hairpin the steering seems to stick and then when I go below a certain speed it "unlocks" and the car turns in more. I'd have to go record a replay of it though.

 

[Seikenfreak]

Care to share those suspension settings? I'd like to try them myself when I get time

Sure.

 

[Nuschel01]

Interesting, ARBs are supposed to be stiffer in the front irl

 

[hornet_burnout]

Compared to real life it's like getting in your car on Sport Cup 2 tyres and driving leisurely to get groceries and it tries to kill you 10 times, succeeding in throwing you off the road at least twice. At 2000 rpm and just because you looked at the throttle pedal.

 

[JDMKING13]

Compared to real life it's like getting in your car on Sport Cup 2 tyres and driving leisurely to get groceries and it tries to kill you 10 times, succeeding in throwing you off the road at least twice. At 2000 rpm and just because you looked at the throttle pedal.

Another low speed can’t control car comment.. it makes no sense to me.. the game got harder but the way you and others a making it, it’s not that serious… once you get the physics the cars are easy to control..

 

[Techlet]

It might be a feedback issue more than anything. Because they’re aren’t communicating loss of traction it feels like it just snaps. Perhaps there’s a half second feedback cue we should be getting but aren’t.

This has been my experience also. Of course, because I use a controller, I'm not able to comment on the driving physics. However, I can comment that the feedback on the controller just feels off.

Maybe my brand new Dualsense is broken out of the box, but I get no feedback at all when it comes to oversteer. No rumble and nothing from the triggers. I can feel when the front tires start to lose grip and when the ABS is biting but there's just nothing when it comes to the rear of the car.

I'm no racing prodigy so I can't judge if I'm pushing the car beyond the limit at 40mph on a gentle banked curve on visual cues alone. It's been really difficult finding the actual limit on a Dualsense when everything feels normal then suddenly all force feedback disengages and the rear kicks out.

 

[ruestchiva]

I do feel there is to much snap oversteer. I feel that GT Sport was like driving on rails, but GT7 is quite the opposite. And, when it's not crazy oversteer, its just crazy understeer. But still trying to get used to it.

I'm also missing the braking marker cones. I used them a lot as a reference for braking unfortunately they're gone and I hate the brake indicator and the brake zone is just embarrassing.

 

[Ske]

Interesting, ARBs are supposed to be stiffer in the front irl

I noticed that 10/1 seemed a lot looser than 1/10 in-game (otherwise stock awd car).
I tried some incremental values as well, but 10/10 was hands down the best in terms of response and controllability.
Increasing the spring rate by quite a bit (2.35+) also improved things.

10/10 ARB, 10-15 rear accel lock, 25-35 rear decel lock and really stiff springs is my go-to baseline setup right now and it feels pretty good actually.

Edit: Not at the rig right now, but given all that increasing body rigidity seems like it's worth a serious look

 

[hornet_burnout]

Another low speed can’t control car comment.. it makes no sense to me.. the game got harder but the way you and others a making it, it’s not that serious… once you get the physics the cars are easy to control..

It's a fact. You want to get a fell before starting to push and what you get is that. But you are always on the edge, even when being conservative, that's what makes no sense to me.

 

[JDMKING13]

It's a fact. You want to get a fell before starting to push and what you get is that. But you are always on the edge, even when being conservative, that's what makes no sense to me.

What track were you running on? I will upload a replay for you… then you tell me what you think. I am sorry if I came off as a smart ass.

 

[hornet_burnout]

I do feel there is to much snap oversteer. I feel that GT Sport was like driving on rails, but GT7 is quite the opposite. And, when it's not crazy oversteer, its just crazy understeer. But still trying to get used to it.

I'm also missing the braking marker cones. I used them a lot as a reference for braking unfortunately they're gone and I hate the brake indicator and the brake zone is just embarrassing.

There's a perfect line and a perfect speed and everything beside it is under or oversteer.
More demanding, yes. Realistic, not really.

 

[hornet_burnout]

What track were you running on? I will upload a replay for you… then you tell me what you think. I am sorry if I came off as a smart ass.

Not a problem mate.

I tried a simple BRZ on Sport Softs, Suzuka, G29. Eventually got to grips with it and nailing it is very rewarding, nice to drive on the edge. Maybe that was the goal? But one mistake though... wild ride. Slightly off the line, Sport Soft tires, 4th gear and sudden loss of traction and uncontrollable spin.

 

[JDMKING13]

Not a problem mate.

I tried a simple BRZ on Sport Softs, Suzuka, G29. Eventually got to grips with it and nailing it is very rewarding, nice to drive on the edge. Maybe that was the goal? But one mistake though... wild ride. Slightly off the line, Sport Soft tires, 4th gear and sudden loss of traction and uncontrollable spin.

Ok I understand.. is it the STI version or the standard? This is what I will tell you.. don’t compare your skills to GTS because you didn’t have to worry about factors that you have to worry/learn in GT7… Not only is the throttle inputs a lot more sensitive… the tires will also loose traction when the chassis is outta wack! This doesn’t mean always sliding… you can go over a slight bump have the rear get upset, gas it too hard and it will spin you out. It’s happens to me.. I had to go back and watch replays to see.. “ohh ok the rear was not stable.” Just keep on practicing on a track that you know like the back of your hand the cars will start calming down and remember not to heavy on the throttle.. the inputs are way more sensitive than GTS!

 

[DPereira_2909]

Another low speed can’t control car comment.. it makes no sense to me.. the game got harder but the way you and others a making it, it’s not that serious… once you get the physics the cars are easy to control..

For real, these guys acting like every car behaves like Jim Clark's Lotus lol. Learn some fine motor control people

 

[kilesa4568]

The G29 is a fine wheel! Just about the right size, and the FFB is communicative. Have used some professional wheels and apart from a faster chatter rate they just seemed more powerful overall. Closer to how non PAS feels.

For me having now had a go with my wheel, it’s the peddle sensitivity and the absolute reluctance for the game to regain grip when lifting off due to understeer. It just doesn’t feel natural you go a little to hot, understeer naturally, lift off and yet the now freely rotating tyres refuse to grip, I’ll take the decreased speed and penalty for my judgement but there is little to no correction for it once it starts.

I’m not a driving god but I’ve managed to stay alive with some fast cars and motorbikes in the last 30 years….

I'm feeling a lot of sensitivity from the terrain with getting the power down and braking on anything but level ground, which basically means you have to preempt what you think you're about to feel through the wheel to plan ahead for it. Surprisingly realistic but I feel like it's been overdone somehow.

 

[platocplx]

Another low speed can’t control car comment.. it makes no sense to me.. the game got harder but the way you and others a making it, it’s not that serious… once you get the physics the cars are easy to control..

Honestly ive narrowed it down to a braking/throttle control thing in GT Sport you had more room for error this time around you really have to be way more careful with how you brake and actually brake in a straight line and turn without being on the brakes, and gradual throttle. Its a lot more accurate to how turning needs to be now at least from what im experiencing I dont see it as a bad thing really people gotta pay more attention to that or brake earlier and work back into being able to brake later as they adjust. Gonna be practicing my braking a lot more now and pay more attention to it.

 

[///M3]

For real, these guys acting like every car behaves like Jim Clark's Lotus lol. Learn some fine motor control people

I’ve spent 30 years nearly doing that with cars and motorbikes fast road and track. I’ve driven race prepared radicals full chat on a track, I’ve driven my cayman at 8/10ths on a Sunday morning on the road, go out regularly on 190hp fireblade….

I’m not Hamilton or Rossi but at club sport level I can hold my own. So with that in mind I’d guess I have some level of fine motor control.

Which is why with a rudimentary feedback mechanic that a 2d game gives you its hard to actually use those fine honed motor control skills especially when the mechanic rewards perfection so highly yet penalises even the most arbitrary of understeer or punishes over steer situations heavily, yet on default every thing the drift challenges are pretty damn easy?

I don’t know either.

 

[JDMKING13]

For real, these guys acting like every car behaves like Jim Clark's Lotus lol. Learn some fine motor control people

Im not mad at people being shocked… when I kept spinning I was like nahhh what the heck?!?! However I was also noticing things the car was doing that I never felt before… so I just took a step back bought a cheap car and practiced… Iwas shocked to find how more serious PD got with the physics.. I was not expecting this at all, but I’m really enjoying it… to actually have to sit back and master all these cars can take some good time and I’m excited about that!

 

[MadmuppGT]

I'm wondering... could the physics be different between the two consoles? A processing delay would create a world of difference when it comes to managing oversteer. Who in this thread has a PS4 and who has a PS5?

Standard day 1 PS4 here and a G29 wheel and pedals.
And I'm seriously struggling in ways I never did with GT Sport. I wasn't a driving god or even what I would call quick. But at the speeds I was driving I'd drive most stuff with no assists except ABS. It kept things interesting and meant I could catch the back end if I was being a little too cocky.
The really fast stuff like F1 cars etc were very tricky for my skill level but a bit of traction control meant they were a challenge but a doable challenge with a sense of achievement after a clean fast lap.

But GT7 is way too snappy. FWD cars dive to the right if I tap the brakes, so I counter by not pressing the brakes as hard and the inevitable speeding off the track happens.
Braking straight still causes the car to wobble (very unusual for a modern car, I've done emergency stops at near 100mph and never experienced anything like the unpredictable handling in GT7)
Rear wheel drive is so floaty as a hovercraft and that's before you try and exit a corner by blowing on the gas pedal.
The only solution is putting TCS on which now makes the game slightly numb as the game catches the slides which was my favourite thing and the TCS light is constantly flashing every time you're doing anything but driving straight.

I'm not sure what else I can do to make it more drivable but it's disheartened to think 90% of the cars and races will be unplayable for me if this trend continues.

But yeah Base PS4 and G29 wheel and having a terrible time of things.

 

[Seikenfreak]

Interesting, ARBs are supposed to be stiffer in the front irl

I noticed that 10/1 seemed a lot looser than 1/10 in-game (otherwise stock awd car).
I tried some incremental values as well, but 10/10 was hands down the best in terms of response and controllability.
Increasing the spring rate by quite a bit (2.35+) also improved things.

10/10 ARB, 10-15 rear accel lock, 25-35 rear decel lock and really stiff springs is my go-to baseline setup right now and it feels pretty good actually.

Edit: Not at the rig right now, but given all that increasing body rigidity seems like it's worth a serious look

Again, I don't entirely know what I'm doing with tuning. There are engineers that know this stuff in real life and then there are wizards who can understand a video game (sim or otherwise) and how it specifically works and know what to do to tweak something in that specific game to get to do what you want it to do..

My theory here is that the excessive body roll/weight transitions are what are breaking traction in the game. So, as Ske is sort've confirming my thoughts so far which feels nice, I've tried to reduce it. The majority of the weight is in the rear on a 911 so I'd think I'd want to reduce that movement. I also found that in the game having a stiffer front bar meant a car wanted to turn in faster/harder which leads to more dramatic movement that I don't want. People have also mentioned turning down their steering sensitivity on controller helped them. Hence, I've gone stiffer in the rear and softer in the front. I also tried adding lots of camber in the rear to increase the contact patch while cornering.

The one-way LSD was just thrown on to see what it would change and it did feel like it stabilized it. Like most of these other games, it seems like LSDs can have a huge effect on traction on turn-in and exit behavior so a lot of the troublesome stuff or inherent behavior of a car can be tuned out with an LSD. LSDs are so confusing to me that I don't even bother trying to get into the details like Ske has. I might steal some his ideas though and try generally stiffening things up.

Just turned my R32 into a 700PP race car thing for the damn GT-R cafe book (guess I'll have to buy another one later to keep as my replica street car ) and I'm messing with the settings on it. I know the real Group A cars have tons of front end camber so I've just been adding more of that each time to see how it reacts. Stiffened up the front bar to help with turn in. Bumped up spring stiffness a little. This is I think the first car I've had a "Wide" set of wheels on with stock body and I know people have been saying theres an issue with it. I thiiiink maybe I feel/see it, but also now either my adjustments have helped alleviate it or I'm just slowing down more and turning in earlier to compensate for it. Super_GT mentions it in his multiplayer vid he just posted how his R32 doesn't seem to turn on that low speed Deep Forest corner.

 

[///M3]

Honestly ive narrowed it down to a braking/throttle control thing in GT Sport you had more room for error this time around you really have to be way more careful with how you brake and actually brake in a straight line and turn without being on the brakes, and gradual throttle. Its a lot more accurate to how turning needs to be now at least from what im experiencing I dont see it as a bad thing really people gotta pay more attention to that or brake earlier and work back into being able to brake later as they adjust. Gonna be practicing my braking a lot more now and pay more attention to it.

It does make techniques like trail braking redundant to do, yet it’s more useful than left foot braking.

Also trimming speed with a gentle scrub of brake works in all cars, in GT7 though the front dives and washes away

 

[platocplx]

Im not mad at people being shocked… when I kept spinning I was like nahhh what the heck?!?! However I was also noticing things the car was doing that I never felt before… so I just took a step back bought a cheap car and practiced… Iwas shocked to find how more serious PD got with the physics.. I was not expecting this at all, but I’m really enjoying it… to actually have to sit back and master all these cars can take some good time and I’m excited about that!

yeah these cars have WAY more personality than before, also why people have to experiment and find the right car they like an stick with that one, vs before you could technically use whatever in that group and do well. A lot more is being factored in now esp weight transfer which is why braking is far far far more important and some more varied application of throttle into corners.