Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[BolverkGTM]

@Yard_Sale I have the same pedals and honestly, I got faster once I set Brake Force to "off" on the wheel. I just give it these tiny dabs to control the balance and it's just so much easier when there is little to no resistance. I know that the theory is that you can't quite be as precise when the brake force is so low but I guess I'm the exception because I feel that I can tell the difference between 10% and 20% pretty easily. So far, brake modulation has been the easiest part of driving for me.


As far as load cells are concerned, no experience, but I know the Logitech wheels have this thing where it will only register the range of the pedal that comes before the rubber stopper in the brake pedal.

The further you push it in, the more the game will realize there’s more travel in the pedal. It’s like a self calibration thing, I have to do it every time I hop on my PS5.

Bro it’s a doppelgänger. This was my post. Sheeeeesh…. 🤣

 

[Nielsen]

Really?

"On Bedford’s West Circuit the Focus RS was somewhat hampered by its weight – it was fast at the beginning of the lap but its times dropped off as the brakes and tyres struggled towards the end of each lap. At 1:26.9 It was faster than the SEAT (by 0.9sec) but 0.7sec slower than the tenacious Type-R.

The RS’s unruly nature saw it struggle in some of the faster corners such as Tower where the Civic could manage an 83mph maximum, nearly 10mph faster than the RS which was impeded by its tendency to oversteer. Ultimately the RS was fun, but not the quickest."

Ford marketing blub aside, it's not the most track focused of the hot hatches, and like almost every car designed for everyday road use, its compromised on the track. I've literally lost count of the number of road cars I've driven on-track and with very, very few exceptions (such as a Radical SR3) they are almost all limited by the requirements of being road legal and more importantly having to be driven day to day.

Even those such as the RS (or my own I30n) that have adaptive damper settings that are almost unusable on the road still fall into that category (and Hyundai even go so far as to warranty N cars for track use). Are they less compromised than your day to day commuter cars? Yes, but they are still principally designed for fast road use, and the higher terminal speeds and forces (in all directions) that a track throws at a car will expose just that.

This video is perhaps the most illustrative example of this, a BTCC car vs a McLaren P1 at Silverstone, same driver and the BTCC lap was with traffic during qualy. The P1 is nowhere near as settled and as controllable as the Touring Car, despite being perhaps one of the more extreme example of a road car "factory optimized for track usage".

Ford Focus RS review – Ford Focus RS vs rivals | Evo

The Focus RS impresses with strong performance and great handling

www.evo.co.uk

Yes, really. I didn’t say the Focus RS has been perfected for track usage, but optimized for track usage compared to lower grade models. There’s a reason why you are more likely to see a Focus RS or Civic Type R at a track day than you are on public roads.

Additionally, I’m afraid @NikNakTobasco raised a valid concern. The tuning shop in GT7 offers all these upgrade parts spread across various tiers, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the entry-level parts are very comparable to what you’d find fitted as stock components on a car like the Focus RS. To compensate for this, PD may have made some components artificially bad in stock form (suspension, brakes, clutches, etc.) in order to ensure that every upgradable tuning part offers a noticeable improvement. I sincerely hope this isn’t the case, but it’s the sort of decision I could see developers make for the sole reason of pushing more players toward purchasing credits in microtransactions.

 

[JDMKING13]

I seriously can’t believe people are having trouble with the Miata and now I’m thinking people just might need more practice… it’s an old car with soft suspension little power decent chassis… It’s decent learner car from what I got driving the car.. yea the excessive body roll made it hard to push. It was still easy to drive… and as I said before if you tune it up a tad but it’s better! I’m just waiting for the video to upload..

 

[danardif1]

I did the Circuit Experience missions for Deep Forest in the R8 GT3 Evo and found it very tricky to get the gold times. The first sector with the tight but quick right-left-right was really difficult to control the rear of the car at the speed it should be capable of doing. It was doing the mid-engined thing but at what seemed quite an exaggerated level, and I had to use TC-1 and move the brake bias all the way forward to make it feel more comfortable.

A big factor in this it seems is the default setup, as I also own the same car in-game so was able to try it properly. Dropping the rear ride height and stiffening up the rear roll bars made a huge difference. I think that the actual setups for some of the cars may need some work in order to make them run better and that in the licence test/circuit experience mission environment that can't be utilised and is causing some of the consternation about the overall physics.

 

[JDMKING13]

I did the Circuit Experience missions for Deep Forest in the R8 GT3 Evo and found it very tricky to get the gold times. The first sector with the tight but quick right-left-right was really difficult to control the rear of the car at the speed it should be capable of doing. It was doing the mid-engined thing but at what seemed quite an exaggerated level, and I had to use TC-1 and move the brake bias all the way forward to make it feel more comfortable.

A big factor in this it seems is the default setup, as I also own the same car in-game so was able to try it properly. Dropping the rear ride height and stiffening up the rear roll bars made a huge difference. I think that the actual setups for some of the cars may need some work in order to make them run better and that in the licence test/circuit experience mission environment that can't be utilised and is causing some of the consternation about the overall physics.

I think the TCS helped you also… in GTS we never run TCS it slows you down which is weird because the real GT3 cars use them… if you play ACC TC is also on helping the driver.. people are not use to running TC on GT and I’m not surprised because we really didn’t have to vs GT7.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, really. I didn’t say the Focus RS has been perfected for track usage, but optimized for track usage compared to lower grade models. There’s a reason why you are more likely to see a Focus RS or Civic Type R at a track day than you are on public roads.

I see a good number of both, more so the Civic, being used as daily drivers, and as I say my daily driver falls into the exact same category.

Additionally, I’m afraid @NikNakTobasco raised a valid concern. The tuning shop in GT7 offers all these upgrade parts spread across various tiers, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the entry-level parts are very comparable to what you’d find fitted as stock components on a car like the Focus RS. To compensate for this, PD may have made some components artificially bad in stock form (suspension, brakes, clutches, etc.) in order to ensure that every upgradable tuning part offers a noticeable improvement. I sincerely hope this isn’t the case, but it’s the sort of decision I could see developers make for the sole reason of pushing more players toward purchasing credits in microtransactions.

The only 'incorrect' stock component I've found so far is tyres, and most of the issues seem to be resolved with a simple upgrade to the next tyre grade up.

Now I'm not ruling out certain cars being just 'wrong', it occurs in every title, but fundamentally, based on my personal experience in the real world, what GT7's doing isn't fundamentally wrong or broken in terms of physics. It's not the last word in accuracy, but it's also not the broken mess some are finding it.

 

[DPereira_2909]

I doubt it’s a skill issue when I have no problems with other simulators on the market. For now I’m convinced PD got something wrong with GT7 physics. Three days since launch and I still struggle as much as I did on release day. That probably won’t change unless the physics do in a future update.

Also, the “production cars need tuning” argument does not explain it either. For example, the Ford Focus RS comes from the factory optimized for track usage, but in GT7 it bounces around like an old Chevrolet Malibu. Upgrading with tuning parts helps somewhat, but it really shouldn’t be necessary for a car like the Focus RS, and even after upgrading there’s still something counterintuitive about the ways cars handle.

GT Sport physics weren’t broken. It comes across as if they wanted to enhance some aspects for GT7, but instead went too far and broke more than they improved.

I disagree. I needed a couple of laps with a powerful car and the odd halfspin reminder every now and then to get used to the physics. The issue is these cars irl normally have electronic assistances that are simulated in other sims but in GT7 they're all generic assists that make you slower. So we don't use them

Go turn off the TC and stability control in a super car or the F2004 in Assetto Corsa and see if it isn't as snappy

 

[Pfei]

I got my first Sport Mode win in a Miata. And it was a handful, too. Look at my inputs. They don't look much different than GT7 requires. I am aware that GTS got a few physics tweaks, but the Miatas have felt the same to me in every GT since GT1, including the final version of GTS.

I don't get where this sudden backlash against unstable cars is coming from. Gran Turismo has always had skittish road cars. I admit on a few cars it's a bit over the top (Nissan Z) but whether it is realistic or not seems to not even be the point anymore. GT has always been like this. Remember the online time trial at Indianapolis in GT5 with the Nissan Z? Same exact thing. I find it strange that all of a sudden this typical trait of Gran Turismo games has taken so many people by surprise.

 

[sejtur]

Again, I'm talking specifically about low horsepower cars at low speeds, not even tight corners.

That's a lovely video, but unless we could see their inputs, we don't know how tricky the driving was for them. It's just your assumption that it was easier.

 

[danardif1]

I think the TCS helped you also… in GTS we never run TCS it slows you down which is weird because the real GT3 cars use them… if you play ACC TC is also on helping the driver.. people are not use to running TC on GT and I’m not surprised because we really didn’t have to vs GT7.

I play a lot of ACC and I was very impressed at how similar the Audi is in GT7 to it's counterpart in ACC. The way TC works isn't as good as ACC but that's a far more focused game, but in terms of the dynamics of the car, there's a lot that's very similar. Default setups need some work as well as addressing the definite grip 'issue' (I don't think it's as big as it's being made to be, some small tweaks could make it feel great).

 

[Seikenfreak]

Just did 5 laps with my 996 GT3. Not a stock car comparison, but because this platform seems trickier to drive than others, I felt it was another example. This is where I'm at with it after all the usual parts getting it to 650PP for the Porsche Cup and then tweaking the suspension and settings to make it a bit more manageable. Intermediate tires as well. The game seems to equivocate them to Sport Softs in terms of PP value. When I tried Racing Softs on it, it seemed like I was faster but the car also felt snappier. More prone to getting loose and then hooking back when I tried to correct it. Edit: Also, to be clear, I don't really know what I'm doing with the tuning settings lol I have an idea of what things do but I can't grasp real suspension tuning and know exactly what to adjust for what scenario soo.. I just wing it, adjust things and see what changes.

It's also to show how the car can move around, the rear end can slide around, and it is manageable most of the time. What I took away from this is again, even with a car all setup like this, I found that being gentler on my throttle and brake inputs helped me control all that weight and motion. I also felt like most of the times I had a problem with a corner, it was because I went in too fast. It felt good on entry, but then when I transition off the brakes, the rear would start to slide out. Whenever I felt like my entry speed was too slow, it made the rest of the turn much smoother and stable. It feels like overdriving the car to me. I need to learn to slow down. In slow, out fast.

Probably the wrong thread for this question, but it’s the only thread in this forum that my question will get a reply.

To you wheel users, are you having an issue with the brake being suuuuper sensitive? I love the fact that it’s linear, it feels so much like ACC. But with no deadzone in game to adjust, I can’t put even a modicum of pressure on it while not in use. GTS was sensitive too, but not like this. Anyone got any suggestions?

I’m on a set of the old CSL elite load cells

Got my GT DD yesterday. Using Clubsport V3 pedals (load cell), I found the brake to require waaaaay too much force for my comfort. I turned it down to "10" from "50" in the wheel tuning settings. In terms of deadzone, I'm having the same issue you are. You can see my brake lights flickering in the replays lol I haven't bothered to look up if there is a way to adjust the deadzone yet so let me know if you find something.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I’m so bored of the road car grind and I can’t afford to buy any decent cars I decided to do some circuit experience. This game kind of comes alive with race cars. The verocity and dynamism of a quick car is thrilling. The noise, speed and sense of elevation the tracks now have contribute so much over GTS. That said, and I’d very much appreciate others opinion, I really don’t believe the Demonstration car at Trial Mountain is operating under the same physics engine as we are. To me it appears to be the GTS engine. It looks like the old sport tactic of flooring it on corner exit. Check the inputs they use, still with quite a bit of wheel rotation, and on a camber with full throttle. You just can’t replicate that. I’d really like to hear if anyone agrees. That said, I’m starting to see such huge potential here. They just need to add pretty minor tweaks to feedback and grip transitions and add BoP and I’m all in.
I’ve only unlocked half the tracks I don’t really want to go back to the he road car grind. They should step up to GT cars way sooner. I fear many people will give up bored before the real meat and potatoes here.

 

[JDMKING13]

This is a stock Miata I wasn’t focusing on so much of getting my best time I was just feeling the car out… my first time driving the car… Yes the cars are challenging however I thought that’s what we wanted… to be frustrated and say the game physics are broken is going overboard in my opinion. Yes you can see me get a little loose also, but it’s easy to correct with a car like this.. as they get fast it’s gets more challenging… This is with just ABS weak

 

[Nielsen]

So because you cannot adapt to the physics they are broken… ok gotcha 👍

Yes, basically. We all form our opinions based on our own experiences and then share them as feedback. I’m not saying my opinion is more right than yours, or anyone.

I see a good number of both, more so the Civic, being used as daily drivers, and as I say my daily driver falls into the exact same category.

Sure, but you cannot deny that these performance badges come with track day appeal, and that’s exactly why these variants are among the popular choices for track day usage. These cars are engineered with this purpose in mind.

The only 'incorrect' stock component I've found so far is tyres, and most of the issues seem to be resolved with a simple upgrade to the next tyre grade up.

Now I'm not ruling out certain cars being just 'wrong', it occurs in every title, but fundamentally, based on my personal experience in the real world, what GT7's doing isn't fundamentally wrong or broken in terms of physics. It's not the last word in accuracy, but it's also not the broken mess some are finding it.

In GT Sport you never saw cars losing control because the chassis started leaning too hard on the suspension halfway into a turn. Control has more or less been lost when this happens, and suspensions exist to prevent this from happening, but in GT7 it happens a lot. Broken mess? I don’t know, but it’s not an improvement over GT Sport physics.

I disagree. I needed a couple of laps with a powerful car and the odd halfspin reminder every now and then to get used to the physics.

Good for you. Wish I could say the same.

The issue is these cars irl normally have electronic assistances that are simulated in other sims but in GT7 they're all generic assists that make you slower. So we don't use them

GT Sport is my main point of reference when comparing GT7 physics. Both titles treat assists in the same manner.

Go turn off the TC and stability control in a super car or the F2004 in Assetto Corsa and see if it isn't as snappy.

Read my previous post where I talked about the RUF Yellowbird in AC, which doesn’t have TC and such when driven on the “factory” settings. In my experience it’s easier to control than nearly any production car in GT7. Why? Because AC physics are transparent (so are GT Sport physics), whereas GT7 physics repeatedly catch me off guard.

 

[Scaff]

Sure, but you cannot deny that these performance badges come with track day appeal, and that’s exactly why these variants are among the popular choices for track day usage.

Reasonably, but in the UK I see a lot more mildly modified cars being used at track days than I do stock RS and Type R's.

These cars are engineered with this purpose in mind.

They are better suited to it than the baseline models, but they are more specifically engineered towards fast road use than they are track use.

In GT Sport you never saw cars losing control because the chassis started leaning too hard on the suspension halfway into a turn. Control has more or less been lost when this happens, and suspensions exist to prevent this from happening, but in GT7 it happens a lot. Broken mess? I don’t know, but it’s not an improvement over GT Sport physics.

I've not had it happen to me in GT7 either, that said suspension has its limits as well. Hit the bump stops and you are screwed, and that's more likely to happen with road car suspension (regardless of what it is).

GT Sport is my main point of reference when comparing GT7 physics.

Reality should be the reference point when looking at accuracy in any sim.

 

[fortbo]

Even cars like the Focus RS, marketed as a track focused car require a bit of modification to truly feel at home on track though, that’s the case with really any road legal car from the factory. There’s always going to be some sort of compromise no matter what.

 

[Yard_Sale]

What is the brake force setting you've got on the wheel itself?

I'm actually really happy with the brakes having come from GTS, I'm running a set of Thrustmaster L-PCM's (load cell) with two Red F30 springs and all the pre-load spacers in place (which basically reduces the pre-load as much as possible).

After GTS being an utter pain with brake progression, I've found GT7 to be the complete opposite in that regard.

Snatchy at first but as Scaff said, it does feel better once you get used to them. TLCM's here.

Didn’t explain my conundrum well enough it sounds

I absolutely LOVE how the brake is now. So much so that I adjusted my brake to a stiffer stack and set my BRF setting to 80 to take full advantage of the linearity. My only very small gripe is that I cannot put ANY pressure on the thing when going down a straight or the like. Literally no pressure or it’ll get registered on my brake meter on the HUD. GTS was sensitive too, But not like this.

I know a simple dead-zone adjustment in game like other sims have, would do the trick. But Gran Turismo doesn’t offer that. Was just curious if there’s a work-around or anything

 

[Scaff]

Didn’t explain my conundrum well enough it sounds

I absolutely LOVE how the brake is now. So much so that I adjusted my brake to a stiffer stack and set my BRF setting to 80 to take full advantage of the linearity. My only very small gripe is that I cannot put ANY pressure on the thing when going down a straight or the like. Literally no pressure or it’ll get registered on my brake meter on the HUD. GTS was sensitive too, But not like this.

I know a simple dead-zone adjustment in game like other sims have, would do the trick. But Gran Turismo doesn’t offer that. Was just curious if there’s a work-around or anything

Ah, on the LPCMs you can set a global deadzone at either end for both pedals.

I have a small one set for my brake pedal.

 

[kilesa4568]

Didn’t explain my conundrum well enough it sounds

I absolutely LOVE how the brake is now. So much so that I adjusted my brake to a stiffer stack and set my BRF setting to 80 to take full advantage of the linearity. My only very small gripe is that I cannot put ANY pressure on the thing when going down a straight or the like. Literally no pressure or it’ll get registered on my brake meter on the HUD. GTS was sensitive too, But not like this.

I know a simple dead-zone adjustment in game like other sims have, would do the trick. But Gran Turismo doesn’t offer that. Was just curious if there’s a work-around or anything

Ah I see. Yeah, it was too sensitive for me too. I just put in a 3% dead zone.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Copy, I wonder if that’s something I can set up in then Fanatec software. Which means I now need to find someone with a PC

 

[Yard_Sale]

Ah I see. Yeah, it was too sensitive for me too. I just put in a 3% dead zone.

Copy. How did you do it?

 

[JDMKING13]

Yes, basically. We all form our opinions based on our own experiences and then share them as feedback. I’m not saying my opinion is more right than yours, or anyone.

I understand about opinions, and I respect yours that’s why I uploaded a video of me freshly driving a Miata for the first time. You and some others were saying the cars can’t be driven… mocking it deeper saying how you can’t go around turns at slow speeds without spinning. I just showed you three laps with a bone stock Miata going around Suzuka with no problem. What is your take on that? I use T300 with clutch and TH8A shifter.

 

[Nielsen]

Reasonably, but in the UK I see a lot more mildly modified cars being used at track days than I do stock RS and Type R's.

Sounds similar to the average Nordschleife tourist run.

They are better suited to it than the baseline models, but they are more specifically engineered towards fast road use than they are track use.

Whatever, but I still think they are supposed to provide more stiffness than they do in GT7.

I've not had it happen to me in GT7 either, that said suspension has its limits as well. Hit the bump stops and you are screwed, and that's more likely to happen with road car suspension (regardless of what it is).

Earlier we talked about the R35 GT-R. In GT7 I keep losing control of this car when entering the dip at Fuchsöhre on the Nordschleife. The stock suspension just fails to do its job, and it almost feels like the tires collide with the bottom of the car. Result being the car spins violently into the barrier.

I don’t get this experience in GT Sport. With that game you would feel the suspension working hard when going through the same spot, but it never failed to keep the car stable.

Reality should be the reference point when looking at accuracy in any sim.

True, but we need to look at GT Sport in order to conclude whether GT7 physics have improved.

 

[///M3]

I think I’ve found half my problem.

I hadn’t changed the dual sense steering sensitivity….it was the default slow as hell….now making left stick inputs more sensitive it feels a lot better.

That said the way understeer grip comes back is really really odd and the way the LSDs/EDiffs work on standard cars is a bit strange compared to previous versions

 

[kilesa4568]

Copy. How did you do it?

We've got an app on the pc that we can use and the settings get stored to the wheel. Very handy... apart from dragging the rig to the pc to do any calibrating...

 

[Nielsen]

I understand about opinions, and I respect yours that’s why I uploaded a video of me freshly driving a Miata for the first time. You and some others were saying the cars can’t be driven… mocking it deeper saying how you can’t go around turns at slow speeds without spinning. I just showed you three laps with a bone stock Miata going around Suzuka with no problem. What is your take on that? I use T300 with clutch and TH8A shifter.

I can also do clean runs with a Mazda Roadster in GT7, but that doesn’t mean the physics feel right to me. Try pushing a fast road car to its limits around the Nordschleife with all assists off. That’s where GT7 really feels a lot harder than other simulators in recent years.

 

[Scaff]

Whatever, but I still think they are supposed to provide more stiffness than they do in GT7.

Based on personal experience I don't. Cars that feel hard sprung on the road, don't feel the same on track.

The forces acting on the car are much higher on a track.

Earlier we talked about the R35 GT-R. In GT7 I keep losing control of this car when entering the dip at Fuchsöhre on the Nordschleife. The stock suspension just fails to do its job, and it almost feels like the tires collide with the bottom of the car. Result being the car spins violently into the barrier.

I will give it a go this evening.

I don’t get this experience in GT Sport. With that game you would feel the suspension working hard when going through the same spot, but it never failed to keep the car stable.


True, but we need to look at GT Sport in order to conclude whether GT7 physics have improved.

Not really, we need to compare both to reality to judge which is more accurate.

All you will achieve by a comparison to GTS alone is which you like better, not which is more accurate.

 

[FA_Hayes]

Copy, I wonder if that’s something I can set up in then Fanatec software. Which means I now need to find someone with a PC

You can set a deadzone in the software. Also check the manual for the wheelbase you may be able to do it through that. I set mine about 5 percent.

 

[JDMKING13]

I can also do clean runs with a Mazda Roadster in GT7, but that doesn’t mean the physics feel right to me. Try pushing a fast road car to its limits around the Nordschleife with all assists off. That’s where GT7 really feels a lot harder than other simulators in recent years.

Weren’t you and others saying how you can’t take slow cars and even drive them? I didn’t tune up the car in anyway… and I will also like to see you take the same car and post your lap! While it looked easy I was nowhere Sunday driving the car in which you and others said you could still spin out easy.

What cracks me up is you tell me to take a high powered car on one of the toughest tracks ever and post a clean lap as if that’s just an easy thing to do factoring in GT7 just came out some days ago… I gotcha… I will post me driving around the toughest track, but are you going to start backing up your claims and posting your driving so people can see your evidence? In my respectful opinion I feel as GTS was natural to you and you don’t like the fact it isn’t Similar which is giving you a hard time… that’s respectable but that doesn’t mean the game driving dynamics are broken.

 

[Dave A]

Based on personal experience I don't. Cars that feel hard sprung on the road, don't feel the same on track.

I can second this, I've driven cars that felt really stiff on the road only to find they become quite wobbly on a track, the speeds and stresses you're putting on the car are not comparable at all.

My history of car ownership leads towards sporty hatchbacks, they are all sporty feeling road cars rather than track cars that are road legal and none are nearly as capable or stiff on a track as my friends MK2 Golf race car is.