Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Phaceless_Ph]

Gotten into the 650-700PP part of the game, and as fun as it is to constantly control and correct slide powerful cars to keep them on the ideal slip angle, the cracks in the physics are definitely starting to show.

It's pretty comical (but still fun) how even on race tyres every road car will want to snap sideways through turns that are supposed to be flat. The worst examples of this are pretty much every Porsche road car, I feel like Polyphony decided to go down the parody route with their handling because that violent snap oversteer with zero traction is not how those cars are supposed to handle.

I haven't done any Gr.3 or Gr.4 races yet, but I'm guessing they also handle like this?

 

[s0cks]

I haven't done any Gr.3 or Gr.4 races yet, but I'm guessing they also handle like this?

The Group cars are better. Doing the Gr3 Cup @ Suzuka was a blast and way more fun than the road car events that you do in the Menus. It was more comparable to GT Sport once I hopped in the seat of the Castrol Supra Gr.3.

 

[Michael88]

I made the mistake of getting a Porsche 997 from the used cars lot when I finally had the money to get a powerful car of my choice and tune it. I drive it with a Thrustmaster wheel without any driving aids besides ABS and even with extensive tuning, experimenting with the aero, brake and LSD balance and making rear suspension soft, its only like 75% reliable, 25% of the time it will kill me in one of the corners without a warning.

It will snap-oversteer every now and then in long corners without the slightest hint that I'm slipping and now I'm only coasting through the fast long corners. It just happens like BANG and I smash into the barriers, without any forewarning, no tire squeal, no sense of the rear losing control. I also have a tuned ~770PP Viper and it does the same thing, especially in the last corner of the High Speed Ring or at Willow Springs the long right hander leading into the two hairpins and the last long right hander before the straight.
Shifting aero balance to the rear with max rear downforce I get the same thing, it simply allows me to go a little faster before it snaps.
I can do a sub 7 minute lap on the Nordschleife with the 770PP Viper on racing hards but do I have to coast a lot through corners, it definitely robs me of at least 5 seconds.

I have experience with GT4, GT5, GT6, Assetto Corsa and many Rally sims and none of those games have this snap-oversteer.

It does not ruin the game for me but it definitely slows me down on lap times, and that's really unfortunate.

 

[BigSarj]

The Group cars are better. Doing the Gr3 Cup @ Suzuka was a blast and way more fun than the road car events that you do in the Menus. It was more comparable to GT Sport once I hopped in the seat of the Castrol Supra Gr.3.

I just did my first custom race with the Porsche Gr3 and, yeah, it's very similar to Sport. I felt right at home. Definitely gotta be more careful, though.

 

[JDMKING13]

Gotten into the 650-700PP part of the game, and as fun as it is to constantly control and correct slide powerful cars to keep them on the ideal slip angle, the cracks in the physics are definitely starting to show.

It's pretty comical (but still fun) how even on race tyres every road car will want to snap sideways through turns that are supposed to be flat. The worst examples of this are pretty much every Porsche road car, I feel like Polyphony decided to go down the parody route with their handling because that violent snap oversteer with zero traction is not how those cars are supposed to handle.

I haven't done any Gr.3 or Gr.4 races yet, but I'm guessing they also handle like this?

Not for nothing I can take turns flat out with SS tires on slight tuned cars.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

I made the mistake of getting a Porsche 997 from the used cars lot when I finally had the money to get a powerful car of my choice and tune it. I drive it with a Thrustmaster wheel without any driving aids besides ABS and even with extensive tuning, experimenting with the aero, brake and LSD balance and making rear suspension soft, its only like 75% reliable, 25% of the time it will kill me in one of the corners without a warning.

It will snap-oversteer every now and then in long corners without the slightest hint that I'm slipping and now I'm only coasting through the fast long corners. It just happens like BANG and I smash into the barriers, without any forewarning, no tire squeal, no sense of the rear losing control. I also have a tuned ~770PP Viper and it does the same thing, especially in the last corner of the High Speed Ring or at Willow Springs the long right hander leading into the two hairpins and the last long right hander before the straight.
Shifting aero balance to the rear with max rear downforce I get the same thing, it simply allows me to go a little faster before it snaps.
I can do a sub 7 minute lap on the Nordschleife with the 770PP Viper on racing hards but do I have to coast a lot through corners, it definitely robs me of at least 5 seconds.

I have experience with GT4, GT5, GT6, Assetto Corsa and many Rally sims and none of those games have this snap-oversteer.

It does not ruin the game for me but it definitely slows me down on lap times, and that's really unfortunate.

It happens with the AWD cars also, as well as the Porsche 996 GT3 and Camaro ZL1, the latter of two cars you know shouldn't be handling like that.

Every car that I've tuned past 600PP so far has been doing the same irrespective of parts, aero and setup.

I think it was like this in GT6 as well and they never fixed it.

 

[NevilleNobody]

What amazes me in Kaz has always stated that racing games don't need to be super hard to still feel realistic and they should be relatively accessible to all players. This twitchy rwd thing is totally against that ethos.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Being smooth with your inputs is more important than ever now. That's my main takeaway from this game so far.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

Being smooth with your inputs is more important than ever now. That's my main takeaway from this game so far.

Wait till you get to 600-700pp . . .

 

[Michael88]

It happens with the AWD cars also, as well as the Porsche 996 GT3 and Camaro ZL1, the latter of those cars you know should be handling like that.

Every car that I've tuned past 600PP so far has been doing the same irrespective of parts, aero and setup.

I think it was like this in GT6 as well and they never fixed it.

Yeah true, it also happened a couple times with my AWD 550PP Celica - makes me really appreciate the FWD cars in the game, I have a max tuned Integra and that car, despite being FWD AND having medium sports tires installed, is a total beast through the corners, I can take them faster than with most RWD cars that have more aero and hard racing tires.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Wait till you get to 600-700pp . . .

What?

 

[Michael88]

Wait till you get to 600-700pp . . .

After a while you'll get a feeling for it, like I said, I'm driving a 770PP Viper and I know which corners to be careful at, I can do the Nordschleife in the 6:50's reliably, which is not as fast as I could go with better physics but its still fun, and more importantly, I can do it lap after lap. It can be done, just coast a little through the long bends.

The Porsche however is a different story.

 

[s0cks]

Yes from experience in the past day 100% sure. Maybe it doesn't impact every game but in gt7 its very noticeable set the string strength to 100% and then 0 to test

Just tested and doesn't seem to make any difference. Feels exactly the same. To go even further I even turned all the sliders to 0% (Constant, Periodic, Spring, and Dampener) - on PC this results in basically no FFB. Plugged it back into the PS4 and it felt exactly the same as when they were all @ 100%.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

Yeah true, it also happened a couple times with my AWD 550PP Celica - makes me really appreciate the FWD cars in the game, I have a max tuned Integra and that car, despite being FWD AND having medium sports tires installed, is a total beast through the corners, I can take them faster than with most RWD cars that have more aero and hard racing tires.

I really love how "alive" the FWD cars feel in the game, the fully tuned EK Civic Type R I've been messing with is an absolute blast to throw around!

 

[JDMKING13]

I really love how "alive" the FWD cars feel in the game, the fully tuned EK Civic Type R I've been messing with is an absolute blast to throw around!

I wish we go an EG6 bubble hatchback! I would love to throw a k20 in that!!

 

[ScottPuss20]

After a while you'll get a feeling for it, like I said, I'm driving a 770PP Viper and I know which corners to be careful at, I can do the Nordschleife in the 6:50's reliably, which is not as fast as I could go with better physics but its still fun, and more importantly, I can do it lap after lap. It can be done, just coast a little through the long bends.

The Porsche however is a different story.

I tuned my 996 GT3 to about 650PP and it is driveable, but requires a lot of concentration and throttle control.

 

[BolverkGTM]

After a while you'll get a feeling for it, like I said, I'm driving a 770PP Viper and I know which corners to be careful at, I can do the Nordschleife in the 6:50's reliably, which is not as fast as I could go with better physics but its still fun, and more importantly, I can do it lap after lap. It can be done, just coast a little through the long bends.

The Porsche however is a different story.

930 911 Turbo is a ball of hate and I adore it.

 

[MadmuppGT]

This is going to sound harsh, but sliding is the slowest way around a racetrack. You might prefer drifting in GT7 or a rally game. Nothing slows you down and burns up your tires more than sliding.

I feel you've misunderstood me. I dont purposefully try and slide the car around... but if the rears do break its nice to stand half a chance to catch the bloody thing.
GT Sport gave you that chance you could feel the steering go light and act on it. But GT7 seems to be going for even more realism... and as such it's asking me to act on sensations that are simply not there in a racing game, the feeling a car gives you way before the wheel goes light... because in GT7 by the time you feel the wheel go light you've already lost control.

I would spend hour upon hours just doing time trials on GT Sport and learning where the limit is on each car and then working my way up to no assists.

But GT7 seems to be all over the place for me, I've now got TCS on all the time which like I said kills the feedback even more, if I'm in something RWD or powerful then I'm even putting on Stability control which once again kills the feedback and fun even more... not to mention something is definitely going wrong as the Stability control warning symbol is flashing constantly, even in a straight line while at speed. Not to mentioned the rears of every car is twitching to oversteer, every single time, whether I'm on full throttle, feathering the throttle, or free wheeling around a corner at a car park speed. The whole physic model seems completely out of whack.

Which as you can imagine is frustrating to the point where I'm already viewing the game as a chore instead of hour of fun like GT Sport... especially as I dropped money for the 25th anniversary edition thinking I'd definitely be getting my moneys worth from it. But if 90% of the cars are undrivable I've essentially wasted money.

 

[tofuhero]

I tuned my 996 GT3 to about 650PP and it is driveable, but requires a lot of concentration and throttle control.

The physics in this game remind me of GT Sport's handling of the Ferrari 458 GT3 (before they sort of fixed it), but applied to every RWD car. Your statement applied to the Ferrari as well. It could be driven, and driven fast, but you had to have 100% concentration on every corner and baby every steering and throttle input.

 

[JDMKING13]

I feel you've misunderstood me. I dont purposefully try and slide the car around... but if the rears do break its nice to stand half a chance to catch the bloody thing.
GT Sport gave you that chance you could feel the steering go light and act on it. But GT7 seems to be going for even more realism... and as such it's asking me to act on sensations that are simply not there in a racing game, the feeling a car gives you way before the wheel goes light... because in GT7 by the time you feel the wheel go light you've already lost control.

I would spend hour upon hours just doing time trials on GT Sport and learning where the limit is on each car and then working my way up to no assists.

But GT7 seems to be all over the place for me, I've now got TCS on all the time which like I said kills the feedback even more, if I'm in something RWD or powerful then I'm even putting on Stability control which once again kills the feedback and fun even more... not to mention something is definitely going wrong as the Stability control warning symbol is flashing constantly, even in a straight line while at speed. Not to mentioned the rears of every car is twitching to oversteer, every single time, whether I'm on full throttle, feathering the throttle, or free wheeling around a corner at a car park speed. The whole physic model seems completely out of whack.

Which as you can imagine is frustrating to the point where I'm already viewing the game as a chore instead of hour of fun like GT Sport... especially as I dropped money for the 25th anniversary edition thinking I'd definitely be getting my moneys worth from it. But if 90% of the cars are undrivable I've essentially wasted money.

You on controller or wheel?

 

[Itsllamallama]

I made a separate thread specifically about something I realized: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/bugged-ride-height-improve-handling.405372/#post-13612625

Basically, ride height is bugged, it reminds me of gt6 camber. The lowest ride height setting actually acts like max height. I made a YouTube video about but guess I can’t post it here. YouTube link in my profile or you can search my handle on YouTube.

Gt7 will still drive loose, you have to be precise and smooth with throttle, maintenance throttle is the bare min input and the the last bit of throttle is reserved for the last part of corner exit. However, when I use what the game tells me is max height all my cars feel easier to drive (responsive steering, less horizontal load, easier to catch slides).Try 5 clicks from max height.

There is also no need for a strong diff, outer tire will always get over powered. Try something like 8/8/30.

Also, the steering angle upgrade speeds up your steering rack so it helps with catching slides.

 

[traind]

So what is everyone doing to moderate the oversteer effect we are discussing? Because I really think having to manage the chassis more carefully is a step in the right direction and is quite a bit of fun.

I tend to: 1) turn asm on 2) go 1 notch or two grippier on tires from default in more powerful cars 3) still avoid traction control because even level 1 seems to be so strong as to keep you from spinning 4) modulate throttle and brakes way more than GTS 5) Enjoy.

What do you do?

 

[JDMKING13]

So what is everyone doing to moderate the oversteer effect we are discussing? Because I really think having to manage the chassis more carefully is a step in the right direction and is quite a bit of fun.

I tend to: 1) turn asm on 2) go 1 notch or two grippier on tires from default in more powerful cars 3) still avoid traction control because even level 1 seems to be so strong as to keep you from spinning 4) modulate throttle and brakes way more than GTS 5) Enjoy.

What do you do?

I mean I can drive the car with stock tires and manage just fine.. depending on the car I would put on TCS so if I did get loose or the elevation changes caught me off guard I would be safe. I’m loving the new physics engine compared to the boring dull and forgiving physics in GTS. I actually enjoyed the challenge of learning the new driving dynamics! I respect you using ASM I can see me using it also depending on the events. I also agree with you with chassis balance is a huge important roll in GT7!

 

[traind]

I mean I can drive the car with stock tires and manage just fine.. depending on the car I would put on TCS so if I did get loose or the elevation changes caught me off guard I would be safe. I’m loving the new physics engine compared to the boring dull and forgiving physics in GTS. I actually enjoyed the challenge of learning the new driving dynamics! I respect you using ASM I can see me using it also depending on the events. I also agree with you with chassis balance is a huge important roll in GT7!

I tested the electronic interventions and ASM has by far the least impact. The lowest TC, level 1, basically means you almost cannot spin a car in the dry; even a car like the 2019 Corvette ZR1 with huge torque. ASM takes the edge off slightly but you can still loop the car very easily. It's just not as manic as all aids off. The traction control set up needs a lot of improvement.

Lower power, lower torque cars are more fun as it stands now. I have not done too much with racecars except for some license tests and GR4 but they seem to be better balanced too.

 

[JDMKING13]

I tested the electronic interventions and ASM has by far the least impact. The lowest TC, level 1, basically means you almost cannot spin a car in the dry; even a car like the 2019 Corvette ZR1 with huge torque. ASM takes the edge off slightly but you can still loop the car very easily. It's just not as manic as all aids off. The traction control set up needs a lot of improvement.

Lower power, lower torque cars are more fun as it stands now. I have not done too much with racecars except for some license tests and GR4 but they seem to be better balanced too.

If you drive with ASM off and Traction control on 3 you can spin the car bro.. only thing helping not spinning the car is ASM… also have you used TC on GTS?? It’s terrible it would just kick on for anything… this is not the case with GT7! You can drive the TC on and still get the end out… In ACC you had to have The TC on, the thing was you didn’t want to utilize it all the time.. this is the same sensation I get in GT7.

 

[Aphelion]

I, for one, am having an absolute blast with these physics. Cars feel much more lively and detailed than I've ever felt in a GT game. For me, its turned the game from the fun collectathon that GT has always been into some of the most fun ive ever had in a driving game.
I can definately see why a lot of people are complaining about the grip on RWD cars though. Its definately a handful, but I think a lot of it is in the force feedback. It just doesn't quite feel detailed enough to reliably and intuitively catch slides, at least without much practice. After a few hours though I’m finding these types of cars the most fun to drive because of how leary they are, and I’ve definitely built up enough muscle memory and feeling in the steering to be able to catch all kinds of ridiculous scenarios. Perhaps improving the FFB, and maybe making the grip a bit less “all or nothing” would be perfect.

But for now, I’m just going to continue enjoying the game.

 

[wheelhp]

I just started driving on GT Sport again to compare and honestly, I wish we had these physics in 7. Don't get me wrong, they aren't the best sim physics in the world but they beat out GT7 easily for me. I know I just made some people mad by saying that but I really believe Sport has a better physics model than 7.

You'll change your mind when they inevitably stabilize or fix whatever they need to with GT7's physics etc. GT Sport was also dreadful at launch, but mostly in other ways, like the abysmal lack of content.

 

[JDMKING13]

I, for one, am having an absolute blast with these physics. Cars feel much more lively and detailed than I've ever felt in a GT game. For me, its turned the game from the fun collectathon that GT has always been into some of the most fun ive ever had in a driving game.
I can definately see why a lot of people are complaining about the grip on RWD cars though. Its definately a handful, but I think a lot of it is in the force feedback. It just doesn't quite feel detailed enough to reliably and intuitively catch slides, at least without much practice. After a few hours though I’m finding these types of cars the most fun to drive because of how leary they are, and I’ve definitely built up enough muscle memory and feeling in the steering to be able to catch all kinds of ridiculous scenarios. Perhaps improving the FFB, and maybe making the grip a bit less “all or nothing” would be perfect.

But for now, I’m just going to continue having fun.

This +1000 The driving is so good man as you said. Once I let go of that GTS driving style and respected GT as I would AC the driving opened up! I seriously can’t wait to really start testing these cars as of now I’m just going through the game… but to feel the difference of a classic car,sports car, supercar, race car is just a pleasure! While not perfect we are headed in the right direction!!

 

[extreme car]

I've just spent an extended lunch-break playing around (it's OK I started work early today) as I wanted to explore the title more outside of the career progression, and also step outside my normal driving style (as I had a suspicion that I may not have been seeing the full picture as a result).

So what did I find, interesting stuff (if your me) is what I found.

First a bit about my driving style, it's neat, as neat as I can make it, measured input, as smooth as I can get them. And that works really, really well for GT 7, and GT 7 stands up as closer to reality in that regard than GTS. It even stands up as you play around on that edge of slip, allowing small corrects using little more than a twist of the wrist to be used.

All lovely and nice, but what I hadn't done was hoon the living crap out of anything, mainly as it's not my thing at all. So I dropped into the (virtual) seat of a 370Z and took it out for a sideways spin, now I'm no drifter, but I can hold a slide for a second or two at a reasonable angle.

Well actually it turns out that no I can't.

So, humble pie aside for not testing all circumstances in the past, what's causing this. First I disagree with those who are laying the blame at load transfer, if that was the case we would be seeing problems below the limit and when balanced on the limit (and those two areas are pretty accurate and better than GTS), which leaves the tyre curve and model over the limit as the issue. Well not the only issue, as what I also found is that the FFB has a massive amount of drag when trying to countersteer during larger angles, which can't be removed even if you set the FFB to 1/1.

I was even contemplating a video on it, but then I remembered, I've seen this somewhere before, and I found it (and those members saying GT7 and iRacing are totally different may wish to reconsider once they watch it - GT 7 isn;t quite as bad, as it's possible to play around more on the limit, but once your over that, well not much different at all).



The long and the short of it is.

Up to and at the limit = GT 7 Good Doggo
Over the limit by any more = GT 7 Bad Dog

Yep this matches with what I experience in GT7 100%. I can drift well with a drift tuned car in GT7 but can't catch a power slide from a stock 370Z to save my life. I can't quite put my finger on what is causing this though, is it their tyre physics? or FFB? cause in Assetto Corsa I can power slide a stock RX7 beautifully through any corner. I wish PD fix this flaw cause other than that this game is top notch.

My 5th attempt at the beginner drifting 1

 

[kilesa4568]

So what is everyone doing to moderate the oversteer effect we are discussing? Because I really think having to manage the chassis more carefully is a step in the right direction and is quite a bit of fun.

I tend to: 1) turn asm on 2) go 1 notch or two grippier on tires from default in more powerful cars 3) still avoid traction control because even level 1 seems to be so strong as to keep you from spinning 4) modulate throttle and brakes way more than GTS 5) Enjoy.

What do you do?

While the over steer and grippy front end is here, I've been using it to rotate the car on the throttle but at all times, I'm remembering the 100 crashes I've already had where I got greedy doing it. Basically, you know the car can slide too much and drive accordingly.

SH under 300hp and SM up to 650 and a little brake bias treat, seeing as we had it in GTS to get some of the load off the front under heavy braking. I got to 3 to the rear testing it tonight but it wouldn't surprise me if you can go even further. It settled the '20 Supra down some anyway. Yes. I know that's backwards but try it and you'll see.

Fast weight transitions are a nasty way to die.

I've gotta say I'm enjoying it now, though. It's challenging but retry is only a button press away.