Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[motortrend]

Which is how you catch a slide? You either power through it and trust the LSD or you gently ride in to it with corrective oppo? With the mass of a flat six over the rear axle in real life I’ve always lifted to to let the rear catch and see where I’m pointing to be fair.

I've driven a 991 GT3 on track and it feels substantially different. When braking in the game it does feel pretty good as you can feel the weight transfer and rotation, although I feel the understeer under braking is exaggerated.

The big difference is when you give throttle too early out of a corner. In real life what it does first is understeer as the nose gets light, only to oversteer if enough power is applied or done in a brisk manner. In the game there's none of that initial understeer and it just goes straight into oversteer that cannot be corrected with throttle.

That being said, most of the FR cars I've tried feel a lot better, although still too snappy above a certain slip angle.

 

[JDMKING13]

Yep this matches with what I experience in GT7 100%. I can drift well with a drift tuned car in GT7 but can't catch a power slide from a stock 370Z to save my life. I can't quite put my finger on what is causing this though, is it their tyre physics? or FFB? cause in Assetto Corsa I can power slide a stock RX7 beautifully through any corner. I wish PD fix this flaw cause other than that this game is top notch.

My 5th attempt at the beginner drifting 1

The drifting challenge was harder than some S license challenges for me! I still got gold but it took me 22 times lol 😂

 

[Sage Ages]

Weird, I had it on the first try.

 

[BolverkGTM]

So what is everyone doing to moderate the oversteer effect we are discussing? Because I really think having to manage the chassis more carefully is a step in the right direction and is quite a bit of fun.

I tend to: 1) turn asm on 2) go 1 notch or two grippier on tires from default in more powerful cars 3) still avoid traction control because even level 1 seems to be so strong as to keep you from spinning 4) modulate throttle and brakes way more than GTS 5) Enjoy.

What do you do?

I've always hated ASM as a concept. To mitigate my problems in license tests, I just set TCS to 1 and it helped a lot. Still have golds in almost every test so far, except a couple. Rally tests, though? Mmmm....my home town.

 

[FA_Hayes]

Being a Porsche fan and spending a bunch of credits building one only to deal with the faulty whatever it is was disappointing. Maybe it will be better in the future....

So I bought the RSR and a set of SS tires. Man that thing is fun on a bun. I can see where they are going with the physics and I hope they get better. GR4 cars feel much better too.

Regardless it's close enough to not make too many bad habits before I go PC this year.

 

[BolverkGTM]

Being a Porsche fan and spending a bunch of credits building one only to deal with the faulty whatever it is was disappointing. Maybe it will be better in the future....

So I bought the RSR and a set of SS tires. Man that thing is fun on a bun. I can see where they are going with the physics and I hope they get better. GR4 cars feel much better too.

Regardless it's close enough to not make too many bad habits before I go PC this year.

Rear engine car, light weight, all of the weight is directly in the back. To drive a Porsche quickly, you have to intimately understand how weight transfer works....and that sometimes weight reduction isn't an end all, be all for tunes.

The modern RSR is mid engine though. They made a wise choice with that.

 

[Siren]

OK here's what I think. GT6 physics was a sweet spot for the franchise to be honest. They simulated suspension travel so well in that game (for console casuals of course). It felt like the right balance between Body Roll and stiffness.
With the direction they were heading with GT Sport they knew upgrades weren't gonna be in the game + limited tuning with setups, which further gets limited with BOP. So they chose to make the physics as planted as possible. Just look at how the aero works in that game. The race cars drive like they have the floor suction of an F1 car and road cars without much aero bits on the body understeer like crazy. If you can remember at the launch of the game is was very hard to recover a car once it lost downforce, PD had to update the steering input because drifting at the launch of the game was basically impossible.

Now....with GT7 I believe they tried finding the right balance between GTSport (car sticks the floor) and GT6 (car has a lot of body roll)
BUUUUT I think somewhere alone the line theres a clash. Currently it feels like cars in GT7 goes from having the aero of an F1 car to the body roll of a 1980's Cadillac in a matter of a few tenths of second. With the added details of tire flex and temperature of the track having a real effect on grip, It makes the snap oversteer situation feel even worse. Lets not forget they didn't change throttle sensitivity which means you could be adding the throttle input with GT3 cars in GTSport and have no problem but in GT7 now you're over spinning the tires and spinning out because the simulations going on in the background for the track.

How does this get fixed ? Well there's few options I have in mind.
Option 1: Push the physics needle closer to GT sport. Thats it lol
Option 2: Give us back BOP limits in sport races AT LEAST
Option 3: Allow players to edit throttle responsiveness
Option 4: Remove all existence of the game and pretend GT7 never happened. Announce GTSport 2 as an opening world action adventure RPG where you play as a Dune Buggy lost in Afghanistan trying to find your way back America so you can witness Lightening McQueens last race at Daytona.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

So what is everyone doing to moderate the oversteer effect we are discussing? Because I really think having to manage the chassis more carefully is a step in the right direction and is quite a bit of fun.

I tend to: 1) turn asm on 2) go 1 notch or two grippier on tires from default in more powerful cars 3) still avoid traction control because even level 1 seems to be so strong as to keep you from spinning 4) modulate throttle and brakes way more than GTS 5) Enjoy.

What do you do?

I complain about it on the internet.

 

[Firestone]

It happens with the AWD cars also, as well as the Porsche 996 GT3 and Camaro ZL1, the latter of two cars you know shouldn't be handling like that.

Every car that I've tuned past 600PP so far has been doing the same irrespective of parts, aero and setup.

I think it was like this in GT6 as well and they never fixed it.

I took the ZL1 to a track I drove in real life (not with the Camaro) and I was constantly getting within 1 second of the fastest lap time recorded on fastestlap.com. People are not carrying speed like the are suppose to around corners and getting taken off guard because they don't know how much throttle they are applying. I even catch myself mashing beyond 50% throttle around corners, which you are not suppose to do in may cases. A lot of cornering requires you to hold about 25% throttle and modulate it while carrying the speed around corners. Also, what I love about this game that you can't do in GTS is teeter at the edge of grip and it is fairly natural to capture any type of oversteer. In the end, everyone is getting taken off guard with throttle application. It makes sense as your body has no natural feedback to communicate to you. Maybe they need to place more vibration through the wheel for better communication.

 

[Techlet]

The game could definitely use more exaggerated force feedback, especially on controller.

 

[D_Dragline]

The drift mission in the Group 4 Mustang is unbelievably frustrating on a wheel with these physics. Cannot hold a drift, it either won’t break traction or immediately snaps to a spin.

I’m prepared to accept this might be my skill that’s the issue if others have managed to master it on a wheel, but I can barely make the bronze.

 

[Fuzzi0n]

After quite a bit more playtime I feel there's another issue, although it's more input related than physics. If you're on a controller it seems to heavily limit the steering lock available to the point that cars feel like they're understeering, especially at lower speeds. It's like the speed sensitvity is setup wrong and just doesn't give enough lock at times. If anyone recalls the GT6 Chaparral 2X seasonal event at High Speed Ring, you were basically unable to get gold because you couldn't steer enough to take the corners quickly. I feel as if I'm having the same problem again here, but in slower cars at much lower speeds where the tyres aren't even at the limit.

Curious if anyone has tried going back and forth between a wheel and controller to see if it makes a big difference.

 

[meekrab]

After quite a bit more playtime I feel there's another issue, although it's more input related than physics. If you're on a controller it seems to heavily limit the steering lock available to the point that cars feel like they're understeering, especially at lower speeds. It's like the speed sensitvity is setup wrong and just doesn't give enough lock at times. If anyone recalls the GT6 Chaparral 2X seasonal event at High Speed Ring, you were basically unable to get gold because you couldn't steer enough to take the corners quickly. I feel as if I'm having the same problem again here, but in slower cars at much lower speeds where the tyres aren't even at the limit.

Curious if anyone has tried going back and forth between a wheel and controller to see if it makes a big difference.

Same thing happens to wheel users. You can't drive Monza properly in a GT3 car because the amount of steering available isn't big enough, for example. PD has a ridiculous notion that a quarter turn of steering is enough.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Same thing happens to wheel users. You can't drive Monza properly in a GT3 car because the amount of steering available isn't big enough, for example. PD has a ridiculous notion that a quarter turn of steering is enough.

I’ve put a 420 rotation lock on my wheel. Felt easier to negotiate some turns but then you have this erratic straight line twitchiness that is exaggerated

 

[CPT_KOREA_]

I had this happen yesterday:

Spoiler: GT7 video

Wasn't this too sudden? Tire squeal and loss of the rear happened nearly instantly... I'm no S/S driver but here it was really weird, I thought I am safe in this corner with full throttle and TCS1. This was in E92 M3, upgraded a bit with Sport parts and Sport Soft tires.

 

[Firestone]

I had this happen yesterday:

Spoiler: GT7 video

Wasn't this too sudden? Tire squeal and loss of the rear happened nearly instantly... I'm no S/S driver but here it was really weird, I thought I am safe in this corner with full throttle and TCS1. This was in E92 M3, upgraded a bit with Sport parts and Sport Soft tires.

Full throttle, cornering with a relatively light car with elevation change will definitely do that to you.



People don't understand that sudden loss of control always happens in reality from some sort of input error. If cars were as sticky as GT Sport as everyone thinks they should be, no one would be crashing like the video I posted. That's the same corner where the IA license test is that some are complaining about having trouble. The guy in the video was modulating his throttle but more than likely upset the balance while at the edge of grip. He didn't even look to be going that fast.

 

[Brend]

turns on voice recorder Note to self, don't take the wing off a GT3 car. 😂

 

[Since80three]

I made the mistake of getting a Porsche 997 from the used cars lot when I finally had the money to get a powerful car of my choice and tune it. I drive it with a Thrustmaster wheel without any driving aids besides ABS and even with extensive tuning, experimenting with the aero, brake and LSD balance and making rear suspension soft, its only like 75% reliable, 25% of the time it will kill me in one of the corners without a warning.

Did you try buying ballests and putting all of them in the front? I read it from someone on here doing it on the 80’s Porsche from the UCD. Totally changed the car and made it a lot more drivable.

 

[xMAXIx79]

I had this happen yesterday:

Spoiler: GT7 video

Wasn't this too sudden? Tire squeal and loss of the rear happened nearly instantly... I'm no S/S driver but here it was really weird, I thought I am safe in this corner with full throttle and TCS1. This was in E92 M3, upgraded a bit with Sport parts and Sport Soft tires.

Well, I'm not a professional either, but you keep accelerating in said curve and if I have recognized it correctly, you have not "opened" the steering to match the curve/increasing speed. Over time, this overloads your tires and especially the rear wheels, since that's where you exert the force.
The more grip the tires have and the more they go into the sport/racing range, the smaller their limit area in which they still work and many tend to lose grip very abruptly when you exceed their limits. Street tires usually don't behave like this, they offer a high limit range and usually announce themselves well in advance. I have a feeling that this is exactly the behavior PD tried to replicate here in the game.

 

[VXR]

Using the G29 more, I've never enjoyed it as much as I do now I've got used to the loss of grip. It still catches me out and still happens way too easily at times, but when the tyres hook, it's just so satisfying. I actually really enjoy how it plays on the wheel this time.

 

[MadmuppGT]

You on controller or wheel?

With GTS it was always wheel (G29 on a alright stand in front of the couch)
But in GT7 I feel I'm better using the controller (stock PS4)

I'm desperate to "Get it" with GT7 and a wheel but it seems even the smallest most surgical inputs on my set up equal too much or not enough in game.
I can be pressing the brake gentle and smooth in a straight line for a corner only for the car to dive violently towards the wall.
Next lap on the same corner I do the same waiting for the snap and dive but instead the car just carries on at speed like the brakes arnt there now (Does GT7 simulate brake fade?)

Needless to say I've found myself staring at the screen, my wheel and the very limited options settings for my wheel to try and determine what's going on with the unpredictability I'm getting with the handling.

And that's before we get to the snap oversteer with zero warning or feedback.

I was doing a Mission yesterday (Porsche 911) so to give myself a fighting chance traction control was on at 3, once again we got the snappy oversteer, it would snap and correct with the TCS causing it to look like it had wobbly wheels in the reply.
So I thought maybe Stability control would stop that twitchiness. The warning light to indicate the Stability control was kicking in was constant lit or flashing... even when travelling in a straight line with no input but acceleration as I was already up to speed.
When it hit the banked curves it was wobble snap correct snap correct. And because the assists were doing the leg work I essentially was a passenger on this slow wobbly numb train that looked and felt awful to play. 😔

 

[BolverkGTM]

How does this get fixed ? Well there's few options I have in mind.
Option 1: Push the physics needle closer to GT sport. Thats it lol
Option 2: Give us back BOP limits in sport races AT LEAST
Option 3: Allow players to edit throttle responsiveness
Option 4: Remove all existence of the game and pretend GT7 never happened. Announce GTSport 2 as an opening world action adventure RPG where you play as a Dune Buggy lost in Afghanistan trying to find your way back America so you can witness Lightening McQueens last race at Daytona.

This is overall a really great writeup, but I wanted to break it down coming from hardcore sims and actual driving

1.) Bad idea. I was bored out of my mind with GT Sport and it was mainly because the tire compounds didn't seem to matter for a lot of cars. If I can chase a Ferrari Enzo on slicks with a GT-R on sport tires, that seems kind of trifling in the sense of skill gap and also significance of tire compounds in tunes.

2.) Agreed, having a PP based BOP in official races that follow the sportsman code would be nice.

3.) Sort of agree. Throttle helps non-FWD cars rotate, but my biggest annoyance is not being able to set a range and deadzone on the brake pedal. Your front tires point the car in a direction to go and having less to work with on the brake pedal is super annoying. Especially with something as floppy as Logitech pedals.

4.) Hilarious, but please god no. I waited too long for this. PTSD and high amounts of working hours was driving me crazy and making me beg for this game to come out.

I had this happen yesterday:

Spoiler: GT7 video

Wasn't this too sudden? Tire squeal and loss of the rear happened nearly instantly... I'm no S/S driver but here it was really weird, I thought I am safe in this corner with full throttle and TCS1. This was in E92 M3, upgraded a bit with Sport parts and Sport Soft tires.

Once you lifted, the weight of the car shifted forward. Like @Firestone said, once the balance of the weight got upset, it set up for snap oversteer. It gets really vicious with grippier tires. Rear tires have too much load, then suddenly the front tires have more load when you're trying to correct the slide. If the counter steer or the lift was slightly shorter, that could have been avoided, but I digress. We learn from our mistakes to improve as drivers.

 

[kartman21]

Using the G29 more, I've never enjoyed it as much as I do now I've got used to the loss of grip. It still catches me out and still happens way too easily at times, but when the tyres hook, it's just so satisfying. I actually really enjoy how it plays on the wheel this time.

I share you experience as well, using a T300 it's great once you're understand how the loss of grip occur
The FFB setup made a huge difference as well to make the new physic model playable, I use 2 for strength and 2 for sensitivity, the wheel is light with information and with this setup you are able to catch slides and correct

 

[CPT_KOREA_]

Thanks a lot guys KMKZ Bolverk, xMAXIx79 and Firestone, what you say makes sense. I think for me the biggest challenge is that the game encourages changing cars often and as they have different characteristics, you have to readjust. The race vid I posted was actually just the second time driving the E92 >.<

While in iRacing or ACC you usually focus on one car for quite some time, get to know it well and understand when and how you can push it. All in all I really like the direction they went with the game, the driving is very satisfying and much more engagin than in GTS.

 

[BolverkGTM]

I share you experience as well, using a T300 it's great once you're understand how the loss of grip occur
The FFB setup made a huge difference as well to make the new physic model playable, I use 2 for strength and 2 for sensitivity, the wheel is light with information and with this setup you are able to catch slides and correct

I personally use 2 and 10, like I did in GT Sport. It seems to make the response time to oversteer a lot more direct, while the wheel is still light enough to correct. It's a really strange thing to judge when dealing with an accelerator pedal that gives you no feedback whatsoever. Clubsports WHERE ARE YOU AT?!

Thanks a lot guys KMKZ Bolverk, xMAXIx79 and Firestone, what you say makes sense. I think for me the biggest challenge is that the game encourages changing cars often and as they have different characteristics, you have to readjust. The race vid I posted was actually just the second time driving the E92 >.<

While in iRacing or ACC you usually focus on one car for quite some time, get to know it well and understand when and how you can push it. All in all I really like the direction they went with the game, the driving is very satisfying and much more engagin than in GTS.

I can see that being a major problem. I was practicing for a Le Mans enduro this weekend and the game threw this migraine headache at me.

 

[Techlet]

Once you lifted, the weight of the car shifted forward. Like @Firestone said, once the balance of the weight got upset, it set up for snap oversteer. It gets really vicious with grippier tires. Rear tires have too much load, then suddenly the front tires have more load when you're trying to correct the slide. If the counter steer or the lift was slightly shorter, that could have been avoided, but I digress. We learn from our mistakes to improve as drivers.

This makes perfect sense but IMO the game does a poor job communicating this to you through the force feedback.

 

[BolverkGTM]

This makes perfect sense but IMO the game does a poor job communicating this to you through the force feedback.

I have great news for you, this problem has always existed and will never go away unless you invest in better hardware. Or get used to what you currently have. Sucks I'm transitioning jobs when I was planning on doing a full Fanatec setup next. 😭

 

[Greyman]

I've driven a 991 GT3 on track and it feels substantially different. When braking in the game it does feel pretty good as you can feel the weight transfer and rotation, although I feel the understeer under braking is exaggerated.

The big difference is when you give throttle too early out of a corner. In real life what it does first is understeer as the nose gets light, only to oversteer if enough power is applied or done in a brisk manner. In the game there's none of that initial understeer and it just goes straight into oversteer that cannot be corrected with throttle.

That being said, most of the FR cars I've tried feel a lot better, although still too snappy above a certain slip angle.

I just did a little back to back with GT7 and the original Assetto Corsa. 911 GT3RS on Brands Hatch in both games. What you say about the under steer to oversteer transition IRL is what immediately struck me as the biggest difference between GT7 and AC in their handling physics. There’s a reasonably wide window of transition in AC within which you can really use the throttle to rotate the car, this window is much narrower to non-existent in GT7 and makes it more difficult to hustle a car ironically. Assetto Corsa immediately felt easier to drive fast in than GT7 which was precisely the opposite of what I expected prior to playing it.

The other detail GT7 is somewhat lacking compared to AC is track surface detail in FFB, more information coming through the wheel in AC.

I hope this can be tweaked in firmware updates as there’s the makings of a classic in GT7 if they can iron these things out.

 

[RaceFace85]

How much power do you need to spin a stock Mazda Roadster in GT7 (in 3rd gear!)? What do you think?

 

[mattikake]

I had this happen yesterday:

Spoiler: GT7 video

Wasn't this too sudden? Tire squeal and loss of the rear happened nearly instantly... I'm no S/S driver but here it was really weird, I thought I am safe in this corner with full throttle and TCS1. This was in E92 M3, upgraded a bit with Sport parts and Sport Soft tires.

Haven't read other replies, but it looks like you completely lifted and counter steered too slowly. If you had feathered the throttle (to the point of no acceleration or deceleration) whacked the wheel to the right, i'd say that was savable. I really try and counter steer as fast as I can, not to just let the weight of the ffb make you counter steer - it's too slow and too little.

Imo the trick is guessing (from experience) which tells you how long and how much you need to counter steer and when to bring the steering back to neutral when you think you're going to recover grip, before the game tells you you've recovered grip (or it leads to fishtailing). There is no fast track to this other than experience of how the car behaves... I would say.