Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[LeGeNd-1]

You can't. But you can in Asseto Corsa, and as Basic Ollie speaks about the mechanic is obtuse as hell, so much so that it distracts from the driving and racing experience of the game, much of your car's drivability relying on that one single tuning aspect. Being that GT Sport is a racing game, not a tuning game, I would be equally annoyed by such a finicky mechanic. I'm not an engineer, I don't have time to deal with stuff like that. I want racing action.

I have over 200 hours on AC, 50 hours on ACC, and according to kudos I have over 60 days of driving time on GTS.

Honestly, I never touched the tuning in AC. All the cars just handle good out of the box. In ACC I just put the aggressive preset and that's it (also, one of the aliens qualified for ACC's top championship with the aggressive preset, so it is competitive even at the highest level).

Meanwhile in GTS, Gr.3 cars like the 458, R8 LMS, Huracan and RS01 handle terrible with their default setups and need lots of fettling. Don't get me started about hypercars like the LaFerrari. It's a complete joke to drive in GTS compared to AC. The lack of tyre pressure has been well documented along with numerous physics issues over the years (e.g. tyres lacking longitudinal grip at low speed, reverse rake ride height giving less understeer, lots of wrong downforce values for super/hypercars, gearbox tuning that is overcomplicated due to having infinite ratios, etc).

Once again I will say that more realistic =/= difficult. Realistic = intuitive.

You also won't get race ending glitches like these with proper tyre physics:




I read Forza is moving to a 8 point tyre model for their next game. Honestly Forza 6/7 handles like ass compared to GT, but at least I respect them for trying to get the base engine right compared to PD who has been sitting complacent for 20 years.

 

[ImaRobot]

I read Forza is moving to a 8 point tyre model for their next game. Honestly Forza 6/7 handles like ass compared to GT, but at least I respect them for trying to get the base engine right compared to PD who has been sitting complacent for 20 years.

Another big problem with Forza is its default tuning settings are usually absolute garbage. It's actually what got me into wanting to figure out how to tune my own cars, and has helped a bunch in the long run.

 

[wagnerFAM98]

Pretty late for this thread but here I go:

Since GT Sport's launch I always used to say that the game is the most realistic simcade out there. And to be honest, this is the perfect spot for me, so I really think physics don't actually need to be improved for GT7. A simple carry over with some possible glitchy things fixed is more than enough.

In short words, I simply don't want GT's physics to be in the level of Assetto Corsa, because it'll take the fun out of it, especially if you play with a controller. (At this point everyone knows that AC + controller = total nightmare).

I'm pretty happy with the spot Polyphony achieved with GT Sport in terms of physics and realism. The last thing I want is GT to be the most realistic thing on the market.

 

[ImaRobot]

Pretty late for this thread but here I go:

Since GT Sport's launch I always used to say that the game is the most realistic simcade out there. And to be honest, this is the perfect spot for me, so I really think physics don't actually need to be improved for GT7. A simple carry over with some possible glitchy things fixed is more than enough.

In short words, I simply don't want GT's physics to be in the level of Assetto Corsa, because it'll take the fun out of it, especially if you play with a controller. (At this point everyone knows that AC + controller = total nightmare).

I'm pretty happy with the spot Polyphony achieved with GT Sport in terms of physics and realism. The last thing I want is GT to be the most realistic thing on the market.

I'm not so sure most people are asking for the most realistic thing on the market, but there are definitely things that could be improved while not exactly taking it out of that sweet spot. That's something I'm actually fond of as well.

 

[Scaff]

That Celica bouncing is probably just crappy damper tuning lol. But as for road bumps I think GTS does one of the better jobs of it. Games like iRacing either feel and look like the car is floating along not even touching the ground or grip levels are so delicate that it's impossible to keep a car on the road over minor bumps. Keep in mind that GT needs to sell millions of copies to people of all skills levels. They could very easily make the game so "realistic" that it's very difficult and inaccessible for most people. That's how you kill a franchise.

Your problem here is using iRacing as a benchmark in this regard, whgen it's well established that iRacing has significant issues with its tyre model, particularly over the limit.

More realistic doesn't mean more difficult, driving a car at 8/10th is not hard, I know, I've taught people to do it! Driving a car at the limit of slip and doing so consistently, lap afetr lap is where it gets hard and requires skill and dedication to master.

Hell, I find GTS (and its like) harder to drive than I do RF2 or ACC, simply because the cars do not dirve as they should. If we take GTS as an example FWD and RR cars simply do not behave as they should, particulalry LSD modeling on FWD cars, I've driven both DC2 and DC5's on a track and GTS' take on ITR's is so wrong as to be laughable. Hell GTS gets FWD race cars wrong on some many levels it's hard to know where to start.

iRacing is a great platform for on-line racing, but it's not a great platform for accurate physics, particularly it's tyre model.

Project Cars 3 it is pretty muh an arcade even compared to GTS, maybe forza it's a closer match for that game

They all occupy the same basic ground.

Well that settles it then! I have driven downforce cars and I'm pretty satisfied with how GTS represents them. Competizione has a better damping model noticeable over curbs but overall the differences between the two games are negligible. I don't see anything about either game's physics as "quirky".

So have I, both road and race, and I 100% am not satisfied with how GTS represents them at all.

GTS is fine for the place it sits in the market, but it's physics engine has some significant holes in it, particularly in regard to its tyre model, aero model and damper model.

Pretty late for this thread but here I go:

Since GT Sport's launch I always used to say that the game is the most realistic simcade out there. And to be honest, this is the perfect spot for me, so I really think physics don't actually need to be improved for GT7. A simple carry over with some possible glitchy things fixed is more than enough.

In short words, I simply don't want GT's physics to be in the level of Assetto Corsa, because it'll take the fun out of it, especially if you play with a controller. (At this point everyone knows that AC + controller = total nightmare).

I'm pretty happy with the spot Polyphony achieved with GT Sport in terms of physics and realism. The last thing I want is GT to be the most realistic thing on the market.

It doesn't need to be the most realistic thing on the planet, but fixing some of the stuff that doesn't even work on the same plane as reality would be good!

 

[05XR8]

ACC using my DS4, is heaven. The people that developed the game, understood what was required for us controller users to enjoy driving. No better game to simulate the sensation of real car dynamics.

GT, is bad. They took the natural tendency for most road cars to understeer, as an early safety net for novice drivers and tuned every in-game car with that in mind. The simulated contact to the road surface, is just not there.

I've mentioned before, the way Grand Turismo cars look realistic in replays, the behind the wheel experience isn't the same.

 

[Scaff]

I've mentioned before, the way Grand Turismo cars look realistic in replays, the behind the wheel experience isn't the same.

The models and lighting look real, the movement of the cars, particularly suspension, doesn't.

 

[wagnerFAM98]

there are definitely things that could be improved

This isn't even the right thread for it, but why are there so much people thinking these changes won't be possible only because GT7 is now coming to PS4? What's the meaning of this? An 8-year-old ancient hardware (boy, I've read this so many times lately) can't handle this? Really? Come on guys.

Edit: I'm only talking physics. Graphics, content, dynamic weather, dynamic time or anything like these are not the case here.

 

[ImaRobot]

This isn't even the right thread for it, but why are there so much people thinking these changes won't be possible only because GT7 is now coming to PS4? What's the meaning of this? An 8-year-old ancient hardware (boy, I've read this so many times lately) can't handle this? Really? Come on guys.

So a "thread titled "GT7( or or whatever it will be called) physics" with a question stating Do you want more detailed and realistic physics in the next GT? isn't a thread to discuss physics being improved? That makes no sense.

No one said improvements wont be possible. What's being said is that what's to be expected is small changes, since things like physics are already heavily depending on the power of the actual console. Couple that with other features that they might change, or things that they might add, that will be even more demanding on the hardware on top of that. Compromises are already having to be made with GTS, why wouldn't you expect more to be had when they're trying to make it compatible with the PS5 as well? It's coming off as you not knowing being entirely sure of what youre actually talking about.

yes, in a thread about physics, others are also talking about physics. Not sure what you thought we we’ve been talking about.

 

[wagnerFAM98]

What's being said is that what's to be expected is small changes

Well, these small changes will work just fine for me. That's what I don't get. It feels like all of a sudden GT Sport's physics are garbage and everyone wants big change. For sure you can disagree with me, but this GT7 on PS4 story is coming way too dramatic.

 

[ImaRobot]

Well, these small changes will work just fine for me. That's what I don't get. It feels like all of a sudden GT Sport's physics are garbage and everyone wants big change. For sure you can disagree with me, but this GT7 on PS4 story is coming way too dramatic.

You don’t get that other people have other opinions? Ironically, you’re being just as dramatic as those you’re trying to bring down for not sharing a view point.

 

[wagnerFAM98]

You don’t get that other people have other opinions? Ironically, you’re being just as dramatic as those you’re trying to bring down for not sharing a view point.

For sure you can disagree with me.

I've been very clear here. Anyway, I'm just trying to say that GT7 on PS4 is not the end of the world. I'm really sorry if you got offended somehow.

 

[ImaRobot]

I've been very clear here. Anyway, I'm just trying to say that GT7 on PS4 is not the end of the world. I'm really sorry if you got offended somehow.

In no way am I confused about what you’re saying. I’ve responded directly so I’m not even sure the point about mentioning how clear you’ve been. I’m not offended, I’m responding to you being over dramatic about people having different opinions than you. More often than not, it’s the person projecting offensiveness that is usually the one offended.

Not a single person is acting like it’s the end of the world. What is happening is people actually being realistic about how this can pan out.

be happy, you’ll get the game you want then. Meanwhile, let others have their opinion about not liking the direction it’s going.

 

[Vspectra]

This isn't even the right thread for it, but why are there so much people thinking these changes won't be possible only because GT7 is now coming to PS4? What's the meaning of this? An 8-year-old ancient hardware (boy, I've read this so many times lately) can't handle this? Really? Come on guys.

Edit: I'm only talking physics. Graphics, content, dynamic weather, dynamic time or anything like these are not the case here.

Polyphony spent 3 years providing a bunch of updates and tweaks to GTSport after it released, even taking feedback from the FIA competitors. If they were able to provide the physics changes people have been complaining about on PS4 good chance they would have done it already. Instead it's been slight tweaks; some reported the Gtsport physics updates overtime basically just brought it back to what was at the copper box event in 2016 before GTSport even released.

 

[ScottPuss20]

More realistic doesn't mean more difficult, driving a car at 8/10th is not hard, I know, I've taught people to do it! Driving a car at the limit of slip and doing so consistently, lap after lap is where it gets hard and requires skill and dedication to master.

That's what I've learnt whilst playing ACC recently. it's easy to drive the car at a moderate pace but a lot of concentration is required to drive it on the limit consistently.

 

[Scaff]

That's what I've learnt whilst playing ACC recently. it's easy to drive the car at a moderate pace but a lot of concentration is required to drive it on the limit consistently.

Yep, and when a title gets that right you know its on the right path.

 

[instinct808]

I'm okay with physics in GT serie, beside glitches (like curb ones) and just stupid stock setups - if they still want to run most of races without tuning then they should at least provide better ones that gonna emphasize differences between cars and not gonna be understeery fiesta forever

the worst part of this game is ffb, literally lifeless with far too less customising options - after trying rFactor 2 it's really hard to comeback to game like Gran Turismo
if you gonna look at some replays from bumpy tracks like Nordschleife then you can see that car bouncing but you literally can't feel anything of that when you driving neither on wheel nor camera too

 

[Shingo_civic]

I'm okay with physics in GT serie, beside glitches (like curb ones) and just stupid stock setups - if they still want to run most of races without tuning then they should at least provide better ones that gonna emphasize differences between cars and not gonna be understeery fiesta

the worst part of this game is ffb, literally lifeless with far too less customising options - after trying rFactor 2 it's really hard to comeback to game like Gran Turismo
if you gonna look at some replays from bumpy tracks like Nordschleife then you can see that car bouncing but you literally can't feel anything of that when you driving

ffb is related to what's the car is doing ergo better the physics better also the ffb but how can they improve the physics with that absolutely garbage of a cpu that the ps4 has while they also have to maintain the game at 60fps? ...

 

[Samus]

It's not just just FFB, I felt the cars in GTS were so lifeless no matter the control method, it just makes everything very boring to drive. Everything feels very clean and smooth, and cars from the same grouping feel very similar to each other. When you drive something like a 90s Prototype it should feel pretty brutal, and require precise throttle and steering control. I was so disappointed when I first drove the Porsche 962, it felt so dull and smoothed out.

pCARS 2 physics are by no means perfect either but the cars all feel far more alive, giving you more feedback and feeling that you're managing the car. That also means the cars feel distinctly different, something I didn't find with GTS.

 

[instinct808]

ffb is related to what's the car is doing ergo better the physics better also the ffb

I think ffb is not that heavily connected to overall physics of the driving and can be "faked" in some way
most of proper sims have problems with their ffb even they have 100x more advanced physic engines than GT
rFactor 2 is phenomenal in that aspect
in the other hand ffb in ACC just sucks
AC is better than ACC but still far from rF2
never tried iRenting for more than 15 minutes so I'm not sure about that one
RaceRoom is interesting one because they prepping overhaul of whole ffb system they using, which at this point is kinda meh too https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/may-2021-dev-notes.16906/

 

[Shingo_civic]

I think ffb is not that heavily connected to overall physics of the driving and it can be "faked"
a lot proper sims have problems with ffb
ffb in ACC just sucks
never tried iRenting
I saw that RaceRoom prepping to overhaul whole ffb system they using (which at this point is kinda weak too) https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/may-2021-dev-notes.16906/

Im not sure you can you fake the feeling of a suspension/tires rebound or a sudden wheight shift if the underline physics are not there...

 

[eran0004]

Im not sure you can you fake the feeling of a suspension/tires rebound or a sudden wheight shift if the underline physics are not there...

You can’t, not even if the underlying physics are there. When you drive a car, most of the forces you experience come from the seat, not from the wheel. FFB is mainly a way to communicate what forces are acting on the car - it’s not very good at simulating them.

 

[Klik]

I don't want GT7 to have physics and ffb as ACC but better ffb feel and tyre physics like PC2 would be great.That's not to much to ask. GT sport its just too much simcade, you cant feel anything how the car behave


I wish S safety rank was harder to get, as of now its wreckfest even on A/S rank

 

[georgetigra]

If gran Turismo want to keep
"the
real driving simulator"
on their title gt7 must be way more realistic...
If they dont want to make a realistic game they can rename it to "the real driving arcade"...

 

[BigSarj]

My question is whether developing for the DualSense haptic feedback will somehow transfer over to better ffb on the wheel. I am optimistic that there is some correlation.

 

[Klik]

My question is whether developing for the DualSense haptic feedback will somehow transfer over to better ffb on the wheel. I am optimistic that there is some correlation.

Yeah, could be. Maybe those teasers from Thrustmaster are some sort of wheels with some haptic feedback or similiar

 

[Imari]

Well, these small changes will work just fine for me. That's what I don't get. It feels like all of a sudden GT Sport's physics are garbage and everyone wants big change. For sure you can disagree with me, but this GT7 on PS4 story is coming way too dramatic.

No, people have been calling for significant upgrades to the GT physics systems for at least decades, arguably since the series began. Each new major game gets a little bit better, not a lot, and tends to inherit a lot of the issues from earlier games.

It's not that people thought GTS was great and now want an overhaul. It's that GTS was a minor improvement on a physics system that already wasn't particularly spectacular, and they still want significant improvements to bring it up to the level of being an actual accurate simulation that only makes minor concessions to being friendly to casual players.

 

[ScottPuss20]

No, people have been calling for significant upgrades to the GT physics systems for at least decades, arguably since the series began. Each new major game gets a little bit better, not a lot, and tends to inherit a lot of the issues from earlier games.

It's not that people thought GTS was great and now want an overhaul. It's that GTS was a minor improvement on a physics system that already wasn't particularly spectacular, and they still want significant improvements to bring it up to the level of being an actual accurate simulation that only makes minor concessions to being friendly to casual players.

There are other games that provide a realistic experience. No point relying on GT for it.

 

[Imari]

There are other games that provide a realistic experience. No point relying on GT for it.

Oh, I quite agree. It's never going to be a full on simulation of the iRacing/RF2/AC type because that simply isn't fun to the market they want to appeal to.

That doesn't mean that anything is fine so we should just give it a pass though, because being completely unrealistic clearly isn't the goal either. I do think there are still a number of upgrades that could be made without compromising the core idea of "realistic but accessible", and there's plenty of room for getting fairly fundamental car dynamics more correct and integrating some more dynamic interaction with the bumps and lumps of the road surface. Something like NetkarPro with a refined control and assist scheme would seem more than adequate for the target audience, and would still allow them to use the terminology of it being a highly accurate recreation of driving in their marketing without it being a load of bullpoppy.

A lot of the fun in Gran Turismo is the cars being believable facsimiles of the real cars. They don't have to be super accurate, but they do need to be good enough for players not to feel like there's something wrong. In some ways it's a driving power fantasy - people want to feel like they're driving real cars while pulling off race moves that make it clear to everyone that they are in fact the secret love child of Ayrton Senna and Lewis Hamilton. In 2021 with a lot of gamers being adults with significant real world driving experience, the bar is somewhat higher than it was in 1998.

The other option is to go the Forza Horizon route where everything is an obvious caricature, but I don't think that suits the Gran Turismo style, nor is it something that I think Polyphony would necessarily want to make.

 

[Shingo_civic]

Suspension seems have received a massive upgrade based on how the car bounces around! Also the car now seems to have actual weight and inertia,tire grip also seems more progressive. That's exactly what i wanted to see, now im so hyped to get my hands on this game!