- 11,806
- Marin County
The way the car appears to behaves in the Deep Forest clip reminds me of AC. That's a great thing.
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Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,193 comments
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- 2,233
- MI
Really? Because I can't see that at all. In fact, I really don't see anything different from Sport in the clip. Right here in the picture, during the cockpit segment, you can see the hands OVER turn the steering wheel and have no apparent affect on the front wheels whatsoever. Just like in Sport. Try that in AC and you'll either scrub the tires out or spin the car.
Scaff
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- He/Him
- ScaffUK
I have to agree.Really? Because I can't see that at all. In fact, I really don't see anything different from Sport in the clip. Right here in the picture, during the cockpit segment, you can see the hands OVER turn the steering wheel and have no apparent affect on the front wheels whatsoever. Just like in Sport. Try that in AC and you'll either scrub the tires out or spin the car.
PD only seem to have finally understood what world movement is visually.
Nothing else I see indicates a significant change in physics.
- 571
- Italy
- 571
- Italy
I don't think it's only camera movements as you have camera movement that reacts to road bumb also on GTS but you can cearly see here on GT7 the car looks to have way more sensitive suspensions. As i said also the car seems to have more weight and innertia throught the corners and braking zones. To me seems quite an improvement from GTS
Scaff
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- ScaffUK
You're not comparing like to like here, not even close (not to mention that you seem to not be able to see the F1 understeer in both cases is concerning).
And I disagree, changes to world movement can more than account for what is being seen visually here (it doesn't just apply to road surface changes, which PD appear to have now understood), and nothing from the movement of the other cars on track illustrates a significant change.
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- 571
- Italy
The guy was saying that on Assetto Corsa if you overturn the wheel it results in spinning...Tire scrubb and understeer happens also on GTS so it's not something exclusive to Assetto Corsa (and it's concerning you still haven't noticed this...to be fair you're the same guy saying that forza and GT are on par when it comes to physics so it is not surprising to me)
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- 919
- Philippines
Yep, I agree. It's not easy to fake camera movement like that I mean most game have head bobs that just move left and right but in the footage it's more dynamic and based on the car physics. You can pretty much see the other cars reacting to bumps and unevenness of the road.
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- 1,024
- Poland
maybe you are right but this screen is cgi not gameplayReally? Because I can't see that at all. In fact, I really don't see anything different from Sport in the clip. Right here in the picture, during the cockpit segment, you can see the hands OVER turn the steering wheel and have no apparent affect on the front wheels whatsoever. Just like in Sport. Try that in AC and you'll either scrub the tires out or spin the car.
zzz_pt
Premium
- 8,188
- Porto living in Hamburg
- zzz_pt
That’s the type of thing we can only talk about after playing the game. Until then, only visual differences can be spotted.
Scaff
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- ScaffUK
It can, it can also result in understeer, and in a more realistic manner than GT as a series has manged to date.
It does, and does so in an unrealistic manner. GT as a series has for a long time (since GT4 Prologue if you wish to get specific) overplayed understeer. Particularly in FWD cars, where the manner in which LSD's work is utterly unrealistic (not to mention how the implementation of Self Aligning Torque is backwards in FFB).
Quote me saying it doesn't.
They are, and I explained in detail why they are, and your response was a series of ad-hominin attacks that broke the AUP and it's not a route you want to go down again either. I also recall you accused me of not being a GT fan as well, remind me how well that assumption went?
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- 11,806
- Marin County
I last played a GT title probably 10 years ago. Yikes. In the intervening time the only other game I've played with a wheel is AC, which is fantastic. Can you refresh my memory about the understeer and FWD issues that GT has?
One thing I really dislike about the Forza handling model (going back to FM1) is that the game will seemingly not permit the front tires to be overloaded with steering angle. You can go full lock at 200mph and the game seems to both boost front end grip and/or clamp the angle to the maximum permitted before scrub would start occurring. This means, in practice, that the cars pretty much always have excessive turn-in oversteer that feels unrealistic and unsatisfying to me. (Steady state understeer still exists in Forza) I don't remember something similar in GT...but again, it's been a long time. AC provides no such understeer prevention witchcraft, and you can very easily overturn the front and plow straight off the road.
- 2,958
- Geneva
- Kimky
- Kimky
my 2 cents but I'm guessing most physics where ported from GT6, so you could have 2 guys porting it, same for AI, plus hiring and paying a game developper is quite pricy, however paying a photograph for a serie of picture in a country for example, isnt too bad in comparaison. SO I'm guessing those 28 arent actually working for PD but are pictures provider and probably one programmer in those 28 to program the different place and light.
- 14,435
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
That won't stop him from making up assumptions for something he likes.
Forza has dampening on the pads, it has speed sensitive steering, so you may think you're going full lock but you're really not. You're not getting a boost, in fact, you're just getting less input, smoothing it out. That's more down to making it accessible to people who use a pad. I would have to say I disagree though, the vast majority of the time I have to actually tune a car to get a decent amount of turn-in oversteer, and that's especially prevalent in FWD vehicles, when you try to power you way through a turn but all you do is understeer.
That hidden aid can be intrusive too, and malfunction. There will be many times the speed sensitive steering doesn't deactivate and can happen during a turn leading you to not be able to turn enough. It's been a thing that's been around for a long time and has still yet to be fixed.
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- 2,233
- MI
Frankly I dunno how you can extrapolate all that information clearly from the same video I and everyone else watched. They said they worked on some things and I wouldn't doubt that they did but if you saw anything more than slight improvements from GT Sport, I would be weary.By what I seen in last video AI is clearly improved, and physics and sounds also.... Dunno how people don't notice
Scaff
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GT's issue is pretty much at the opposite end of the scale, with FWD cars heading into almost unrecoverable understeer the moment the front gets overloaded. Worse still it doesn't model accurately the effect LSD's have in countering this.
In reality FWD cars with aggressive LSD's generate an absurd amount of front end grip, even what at relatively old models now, such as ITR DC2's do so, and modern ones (such as my own I30n) have no comparable recreation (in terms of accurate physics behaviour) in the GT series.
It gets worse with race prepped FWD cars, which in reality are specifically set-up to be heavily nose lead, with massively mobile rears that are driven in a very specific manner (heavy, late braking into the corner, lift off and get massive rear rotation, bury the throttle to then drag them around the corner. Not only is this not accurately reflected in GTS, but you can't set a car up to be able to do it either.
It's one of the areas that PC and PC2 got right (once you got around the tyres taking a bit too long to get up to temp) with the Clio Cup cars.
Its worth noting that my view has been heavily quote mined, in that I never claimed FM and GT are the same in terms of physics, what I actually said was that FM7 was "on balance about as good as GT in terms of the overall physics model", in that they are both accessible sim-lite titles with a similar degree of physics inaccuracies.
Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title
GT7 may not be optimised for PS5 but we can still reap the benefits of faster loading times and 4K graphics, so it's not a total loss. I for one would appreciate the faster loading times from the SSD because it's of my biggest gripes with the PS4. It's soo slow, particularly when it comes to...
www.gtplanet.net
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(tough I still can't belive it and waiting for somebody explaining me whats going on with credits)
- 2,233
- MI
They've said before on that video of the tour I believe that they only have 2 guys working on car physics to maintain a consistency of experience throughout the game. Sure, I'm with you in that they could throw a dozen more though and get things moving faster but does that mean the driving suffers? I don't know, it seems like they've updated physics of cars though patches in the past.
- 50,931
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
The Clio Cup is the perfect example. As well as the TCR car(s). In PC2, if the car is out of shape, the player can nail the throttle and recover. Just like this:GT's issue is pretty much at the opposite end of the scale, with FWD cars heading into almost unrecoverable understeer the moment the front gets overloaded. Worse still it doesn't model accurately the effect LSD's have in countering this.
In reality FWD cars with aggressive LSD's generate an absurd amount of front end grip, even what at relatively old models now, such as ITR DC2's do so, and modern ones (such as my own I30n) have no comparable recreation (in terms of accurate physics behaviour) in the GT series.
It gets worse with race prepped FWD cars, which in reality are specifically set-up to be heavily nose lead, with massively mobile rears that are driven in a very specific manner (heavy, late braking into the corner, lift off and get massive rear rotation, bury the throttle to then drag them around the corner. Not only is this not accurately reflected in GTS, but you can't set a car up to be able to do it either.
It's one of the areas that PC and PC2 got right (once you got around the tyres taking a bit too long to get up to temp) with the Clio Cup cars.
Its worth noting that my view has been heavily quote mined, in that I never claimed FM and GT are the same in terms of physics, what I actually said was that FM7 was "on balance about as good as GT in terms of the overall physics model", in that they are both accessible sim-lite titles with a similar degree of physics inaccuracies.
Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title
GT7 may not be optimised for PS5 but we can still reap the benefits of faster loading times and 4K graphics, so it's not a total loss. I for one would appreciate the faster loading times from the SSD because it's of my biggest gripes with the PS4. It's soo slow, particularly when it comes to...
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- 16,147
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
This issue was brought to light when I drove the Cupra TCR around Mondello Park in Assetto Corsa. I thought it would handle like a pig around the tight corners and give me profuse understeer whenever I booted it, but that wasn't the case at all. You could drive it on the nose and it wouldn't protest unless you when into a corner too fast. In GT Sport, you feel like you're dragging the front end around against it's will. The car feels tight, sluggish and unpredictable, which isn't what you'd expect from a small hatchback. I'm not saying that we need complete realism for GT7 but we need each car handle in a similar fashion to the real-world counterpart, just with a bit less nuance.GT's issue is pretty much at the opposite end of the scale, with FWD cars heading into almost unrecoverable understeer the moment the front gets overloaded. Worse still it doesn't model accurately the effect LSD's have in countering this.
In reality FWD cars with aggressive LSD's generate an absurd amount of front end grip, even what at relatively old models now, such as ITR DC2's do so, and modern ones (such as my own I30n) have no comparable recreation (in terms of accurate physics behaviour) in the GT series.
It gets worse with race prepped FWD cars, which in reality are specifically set-up to be heavily nose lead, with massively mobile rears that are driven in a very specific manner (heavy, late braking into the corner, lift off and get massive rear rotation, bury the throttle to then drag them around the corner. Not only is this not accurately reflected in GTS, but you can't set a car up to be able to do it either.
It's one of the areas that PC and PC2 got right (once you got around the tyres taking a bit too long to get up to temp) with the Clio Cup cars.
Its worth noting that my view has been heavily quote mined, in that I never claimed FM and GT are the same in terms of physics, what I actually said was that FM7 was "on balance about as good as GT in terms of the overall physics model", in that they are both accessible sim-lite titles with a similar degree of physics inaccuracies.
Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title
GT7 may not be optimised for PS5 but we can still reap the benefits of faster loading times and 4K graphics, so it's not a total loss. I for one would appreciate the faster loading times from the SSD because it's of my biggest gripes with the PS4. It's soo slow, particularly when it comes to...
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- 571
- Italy
Scaff
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If you use the @ tool like this: @Shingo_civic the user gets informed when you make lame attempts to debunk them.
Follow me for more top tips.
- 571
- Italy
I don't think you're debunking anything saying that the only difference from gts it's the camera shake since the camera reacts to road bumps (like the one in AC or Iracing).Likei said you have camera that shake to road bumps also on GTS replays but it isn't near as noticeable as on GT7 since the suspensions aren't very sensitive.
Scaff
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I didn't say I was, I said your post doesn't debunk that it could be a result of improved world movement.
World movement is more than just camera shake.
Or the world movement has improved, as the movement of the other cars in the footage doesn't look significantly different to GTS.
PD may have improved the suspension model, but this footage certainly isn't definitive proof of that. You see I've not made a definitive claim in one direction or another, I've posted an opinion based on the 'little' visual information we have. That it doesn't automatically align with your view has however, once again, triggered you into a cycle of ad-hominin attacks.
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- 3,384
- Las Vegas
- dawko-san
We’re just gonna have to wait and test everything ourselves, as usual 
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