Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT


  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
Those videos do not show cars snap oversteering without warning, the emphasis is mine because its key.

They show cars over steering with warning, you can tell that because the driver corrected them.
Yeah exactly, just like in GT7. I have zero problems with the physics. Zero. No problems at all. Everything feels natural to me. Some people just need to focus on getting better.

Oh and about the GT86, it is in fact easy to drive and blabla bla bla blabla IF you know what you're doing. One simple mistake and it's gone:





 
Yeah exactly, just like in GT7. I have zero problems with the physics. Zero. No problems at all. Everything feels natural to me. Some people just need to focus on getting better.

Oh and about the GT86, it is in fact easy to drive and blabla bla bla blabla IF you know what you're doing. One simple mistake and it's gone:






And with this (iRacing) level of delusion is why I'm done in with this inanity.

None one has said that a car can't be lost under any circumstances, that's more strawman arguments, and I could post just as many videos of people quite successfully holding these cars over the limit with little training, or 24 pages of videos of GT-86's not binning it on the 'ring. Or are drift schools the world over just filled with people leaving them, despondent, having done almost nothing but chuck cars backward? (hint - the answers no)

Have fun, I'm heading back to reality, that's oddly easier over the limit than GT 7 (but apparently less accurate).
 
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Yeah exactly, just like in GT7. I have zero problems with the physics. Zero. No problems at all. Everything feels natural to me.
Lol wut? That's not true of any game ever. Even the simmiest of sims has problems with physics sometimes.

Don't worry boys, the Gran Turismo Defence Force is here. Don't talk bad about it or they'll break your kneecaps.
 
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"Everything feels natural"

:lol:

As usual, I have a sneaking suspicion that if this were Forza Motorsport that had these exact handling characteristics (God, no), these same people would be crying foul and calling it a cartoonish arcade racer. And, yes, I'm the one that brought up Forza because I've been here long enough to know it's true.
 
Lol wut? That's not true of any game ever. Even the simmiest of sims has problems with physics sometimes.

Don't worry boys, the Gran Turismo Defence Force is here. Don't talk bad about it or they'll break your kneecaps.
I don't think it's because they love the series, they likely have no idea how some of the most controversial cars (MX-5, RX-8, 370Z) behave at/beyond the limit IRL. I've been with GT since the beginning and I'm not gonna pretend these physics are totally real. They're better than what we had with GTS, for sure, but I think what we do in this thread is important, we have to call out the issues. Because you can't improve if you don't admit your mistakes. And I honestly want GT7 (or future GTs) to improve.
 
They're better than what we had with GTS, for sure...
The problem I've come across since going back to Sport for a comparison is I don't think this is true either. And this is from someone that's levvied the same snap oversteer complaints at it as well. Overall, taking any car around the track in GTS feels better, easy — the way it should be.

Perhaps we could argue there's more nuance in GT7, but that nuance either translates terribly because the middle ground between "I've spun my car because I binned it through this hairpin" and "I guess I'll die now because I touched the throttle going through a sweeper" is non-existent.

Or, it translates terribly because difficulty = realism, which as pointed out on numerous occasions, is completely false.
 
"Everything feels natural"

:lol:

As usual, I have a sneaking suspicion that if this were Forza Motorsport that had these exact handling characteristics (God, no), these same people would be crying foul and calling it a cartoonish arcade racer. And, yes, I'm the one that brought up Forza because I've been here long enough to know it's true.
No, no. PD could never make a mistake, I mean it's not like PD would screw up and patch the wrong tyres onto cars in 17 events!

The problem I've come across since going back to Sport for a comparison is I don't think this is true either. And this is from someone that's levvied the same snap oversteer complaints at it as well. Overall, taking any car around the track in GTS feels better, easy — the way it should be.

Perhaps we could argue there's more nuance in GT7, but that nuance either translates terribly because the middle ground between "I've spun my car because I binned it through this hairpin" and "I guess I'll die now because I touched the throttle going through a sweeper" is non-existent.

Or, it translates terribly because difficulty = realism, which as pointed out on numerous occasions, is completely false.
My feelings are a little more granular. I think they've done a reasonable job improving the behavior below the limit and just at the limit, and the changes have certainly benefited FWD cars, for example, it's not best in class, but it's better. However, it's undone when you get over the limit in road cars and try and save stuff (in situations that are perfectly savable - that's just for those who strawman every word people write).

Race spec cars are (inaccurately) more progressive over the limit than road cars, which is wrong.

I'm waiting for PD to patch it and the self-same people shift positions without blinking and act as if they didn't defend the demonstrably inaccurate.
 
So here it is GR86 at Tsukuba Comfort Soft Tyre. I did around 10 laps to get used to the car before I did this last 3 laps uncut.

1st lap: Full grip and pushing it as hard as I can, car is pretty mellow to drive on the infield, the car is pretty stable after dunlop corner too but you have to pick the right line or the car will oversteer. The only problem I have is the last corner, the car almost put me into uncontrollable snap oversteer on last corner.

2nd lap: mostly power slide around the corner, low angle and playing it safe so I don't spin, car feels a bit twitchy but not too bad. Once again the car felt weird at the exit of the last corner that it put me on a 360 spin.

3rd lap: Full send, tried drifting with the most angle and speed. car feels very twitchy, very hard to find a balance between wanting to spin out and controlling the oversteer. I barely made the last corner.



for comparison this is me in GT sport with the same car full send.



EDIT: the GR86 in GT Sport is CH tyre. Forgot to mention that.
 
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You do realize that the guy driving has literally over three decades of experience drifting all sorts of cars, right? He makes it look very "easy to control" but it really isn't.

Here are examples of pro drivers making it look very easy and manageable:




Some people here will for sure remark that the real world physics need some tweaking because cars shouldnt snap oversteer like that without warning!

yeah but anything he can do i can do better no?
 
So here it is GR86 at Tsukuba Comfort Soft Tyre. I did around 10 laps to get used to the car before I did this last 3 laps uncut.

1st lap: Full grip and pushing it as hard as I can, car is pretty mellow to drive on the infield, the car is pretty stable after dunlop corner too but you have to pick the right line or the car will oversteer. The only problem I have is the last corner, the car almost put me into uncontrollable snap oversteer on last corner.

2nd lap: mostly power slide around the corner, low angle and playing it safe so I don't spin, car feels a bit twitchy but not too bad. Once again the car felt weird at the exit of the last corner that it put me on a 360 spin.

3rd lap: Full send, tried drifting with the most angle and speed. car feels very twitchy, very hard to find a balance between wanting to spin out and controlling the oversteer. I barely made the last corner.



for comparison this is me in GT sport with the same car full send.



EDIT: the GR86 in GT Sport is CH tyre. Forgot to mention that.

Wheel or Gamepad?
 
Another thought I've been having is it feels like a certain general vocal audience kept yelling "Tuning! We want tuning back!" when GT Sport was around and Polyphony heard that. Except I think when a portion of those people say tuning, what they were referring to was sticking 12 turbos on a Swift and going 300mph and doing wheelies. Or making a 1000hp GTR or Supra and winning every race with it.

What GT7 feels like, for me, at this point in time, is that yea you can throw on a bunch of parts, but it might not handle well out of the box. Which is generally a real thing. Taking your car and slamming it on the ground doesn't just overall improve everything about a car. You'd have to get involved with math (yuck) and your cars suspension geometry etc I know some people have already been saying this earlier in the thread so this isn't an original thought.

The last couple days I've spent some time taking a couple 700 cars, my 996, GT350R, and R32 GTR (note: 3 different drivetrain layouts) that I've put together like race cars and did a bunch of laps around Laguna Seca practicing and messing with them. Most recent was the GTR; I had my own tweaks but it was hit or miss. I tried praiano's tune and, frankly, didn't like it very much. But using his as a baseline, I made my own adjustments and I'm really happy with it. I think the most important, impactful thing you can adjust right now is the LSD settings. Every time I've adjusted that or used Praiano's setup, it dramatically changes the behavior of the car. I also spend too much time watching the replays of me doing lap after lap around an empty circuit, because the game is so damn good looking, but it also lets me watch how the car is moving, the suspension, the dive, when I go over rumble strips or smash into huge curbs. I also think the "Measure" thing is not very useful because it doesn't always necessarily give you feedback that what you're doing is changing the car. You need to go back out on track and do a lap or two.

Edit: Another thing you can do is some of the weight reductions w/ ballast. Race cars are typically gutted and often use ballast to reach a minimum weight requirement. So you can try and look up the weight specs for certain race cars, find that Stage 3 Weight Reduction (which I believe is the one that guts the car) will put you below spec, then you bring it back up with ballast and then you can reposition the ballast to give you a better weight distribution (use the Measure tool and left info bar), which the game seems to factor heavily in the PP rating. I assume that means weight distribution plays a decent part in the handling characteristics.

I've been able to get all three of the cars into the 1.26:xxx range on Laguna Seca (on racing softs) and they feel much more comfortable to drive. The GTR, seeing as its the latest one I did, it was actually better to drive with TCS off now.

Also for the first time last night, I finally got around to doing what I did back in the older GT days, and just took stock cars on Sport Hards out to Tsukuba and saw what sort've lap I could put down in the spirit of Best Motoring. Like building my own Time Trial ranking list. So far, the Evo 5 and MK4 Supra felt excellent. Excellent as in pretty damn easy to drive and smooth. The Supra is still a boat. In some ways, easier than all my "tuned up" stuff.
 
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Logitech G27 with GIMX adapter

EDIT: Also forgot to mention the stock GR86 in GT7 came with sports hard. did a 4 lap time attack and got 1.07.1xx so I switched it to comfort soft for testing.
Nice driving man, and that’s with a lesser tire! I put softs on my 86 also SH are way to grippy! I would like to see others take that same car and track combinations to see what they got because according to some what you did it’s not supposed to happen.. you were supposed to spin out. 😂
 
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The problem I've come across since going back to Sport for a comparison is I don't think this is true either. And this is from someone that's levvied the same snap oversteer complaints at it as well. Overall, taking any car around the track in GTS feels better, easy — the way it should be.

Perhaps we could argue there's more nuance in GT7, but that nuance either translates terribly because the middle ground between "I've spun my car because I binned it through this hairpin" and "I guess I'll die now because I touched the throttle going through a sweeper" is non-existent.

Or, it translates terribly because difficulty = realism, which as pointed out on numerous occasions, is completely false.
Difficulty does not equal realism that’s true, but GT7 is certainly more realistic than GTSport. GT7 has its flaws for sure, there’s many things that could be improved massively, but in general it’s a big step up from GT7. I know how a car feels on the limit, I do it competitively throughout the year, and on the limit GT7 just about nails it, it’s past the limit where the issues come about. GTSport felt too easy in a lot of ways, there was just way too much that you could get away with that you just couldn’t do in a real car. It was so bad that it would actually enforce bad driving habits in a real car. GT7 would be easier if they made it more realistic, so I partially agree with what you’re saying, but we also just can’t assume that a game is more realistic than another just because it’s easier too.
 
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Compared to real life it's like getting in your car on Sport Cup 2 tyres and driving leisurely to get groceries and it tries to kill you 10 times, succeeding in throwing you off the road at least twice. At 2000 rpm and just because you looked at the throttle pedal.
Update:

  • been enjoying the challenges in GT7, be it the license tests, caffe progression or just upgrading and time trialing my BRZ, just for the difficulty of it and the commitment and focus needed to survive
  • still get irked about how I can stomp on the gas in 2nd gear in the perfect line and nothing happens, yet 20% gas in a short shifted 4th gear sends me tank slapping uncontrollably entering Dunlop as if I was on slicks in the rain (and it's properly set up, do not get me started on that), and that I can't throw it at Degner One in intertia drift no matter what.

Also got my old Jeep from the mechanic today for it's annual check up and "MOT" and I took advantage of the rain the rwd and 30% LSD to slow motion drift it around every roundabout I could and safely let off some steam on the - longest possible - way home. Not my nimble Datsun 1200, or my W202 Mercedes. The old beaten Jeep. It really gave me some perspective. And the conclusion is yes that no matter how you try to excuse it, driving (let alone drifting or "dirt" racing) in GT7 does suck. WAY "harder" and unrealistically so, and definitely much MUCH less rewarding than RL.

Cheaper though... 73 euros for half a tank of diesel... 2 tanks and you can get GT7 and a G29.

Anyway... I'll play it when I'm bored or in need of some "pain", and will remain vigilant of any physics updates. But yeah, physics wise, WORST GT EVER. Period. Don't bother to @ me against that, fact.

:cheers:

(edit: it's actually not really the physics IMO, it's the grip/tyre simulation)
 
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I remember watching the High Speed Ring demonstration and, although it helped me with the lines, I thought to myself: no way I can do that in this car, in this game. If I try to, I lose grip.
I thought the same thing… I wish you could see some of my friends time
 
Things I've learned from GT7 thus far:

  • There should be far more crashes on the road daily because at any point your car can break traction and fling itself into the nearest barricade for reasons unknown.
  • Driving any car with HP values north of, say, 300 requires a training course that's mandated by law because you need to learn to feather the throttle like your life depends on it. And it does.
  • If you approach a hill in said high-powered car you're going to die. Just accept it. Your life is over. Bye.
  • Rain is practically impossible to drive in and the fact there aren't more deaths in the real world is a lie fabricated by The Man.
I just wanted to quote this because what Terronium-12 said is absolute FACTS
 
Just So we can reach a relative consensus on the general issue at hand without flinging crap at eachother, and something ALMOST everyone can agree upon:

The cars, when not pushed to the very limit, handle wonderfully and feel really good to drive. But when they reach their limit, their grip falls off a cliff and they snap oversteer. This shouldn't be happening

I feel as if people are confused with what others are saying and misinterpreting an issue at the limit of grip as people taking issue with car handling as a whole. Which is NOT what we're talking about.
 
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I could post just as many videos of people quite successfully holding these cars over the limit with little training
Yeah, go ahead. I'm curious.
And with this (iRacing) level of delusion is why I'm done in with this inanity.
People are saying it's not normal that they are not able to take a corner flat out at 330kmh in a LMP1 and that it's somehow an indication that the physics are not realistic. But I'm the delusional one. Right.
 
Possibly the most important part? The bit that connects the car to the road. GT tyre modelling has always been questionable at best.
And this is where I am wondering if the issue lies. This whole "single point" tyre contact issue that was brought up on GT Sport (why some cars wildly spin for no apparent reason at Fuji, for example). I remember back in the ACC alpha, the cars only modelled a single tyre contact point and it was deemed horrible, but when it was patched for multipoint contact, it became one of the best handling sims of the time. Is the same happening here, that the car is setup in such a way that part of the tyre loses contact with the road (or the engine thinks it does through some funky number crunching) and as such goes nuts?
 
I’m sorry I just don’t get this limit talk… driving a car is not hard, but pushing a car to the limit is a different story.. for the fact of there is little room for error after going past any limit… Everyone keeps saying once you go above the limit it’s not good??? Like yea you went over the limit.. In GTS you were not punished for bad driving or going over the limit… you typically just understeer or backed of the throttle and the car would magically straighten itself out. In AC catching yourself after you went above the limit is impossible and wayyy harder than GT7 In my opinion Same for ACC. I just saw @extreme car take a BRZ on lesser tires and drive and drift the track with no problem yet there’s people saying they can’t drive the car on SH tires?

No physics in a sim is going to be perfect and GT7 isn’t perfect, but I’m starting to get the feeling it might be people driving skills… I have been playing the game for a week now and find it a lot easier to drive and feel the cars. I am not coming at anybody or calling anyone liars, but after racing with friends last night driving for hours I’m not getting the same sensations that these cars are sooo hard to drive…
 
And this is where I am wondering if the issue lies. This whole "single point" tyre contact issue that was brought up on GT Sport (why some cars wildly spin for no apparent reason at Fuji, for example). I remember back in the ACC alpha, the cars only modelled a single tyre contact point and it was deemed horrible, but when it was patched for multipoint contact, it became one of the best handling sims of the time. Is the same happening here, that the car is setup in such a way that part of the tyre loses contact with the road (or the engine thinks it does through some funky number crunching) and as such goes nuts?
The ACC issue was the single point model fell over when coming into contact with the curbs combined with changes that they had made to the rest of the tyre model.


A single point model can work more than well enough, as illustrated by AC that runs a single point model.
 
I’m sorry I just don’t get this limit talk… driving a car is not hard, but pushing a car to the limit is a different story.. for the fact of there is little room for error after going past any limit… Everyone keeps saying once you go above the limit it’s not good??? Like yea you went over the limit.. In GTS you were not punished for bad driving or going over the limit… you typically just understeer or backed of the throttle and the car would magically straighten itself out. In AC catching yourself after you went above the limit is impossible and wayyy harder than GT7 In my opinion Same for ACC. I just saw @extreme car take a BRZ on lesser tires and drive and drift the track with no problem yet there’s people saying they can’t drive the car on SH tires?

No physics in a sim is going to be perfect and GT7 isn’t perfect, but I’m starting to get the feeling it might be people driving skills… I have been playing the game for a week now and find it a lot easier to drive and feel the cars. I am not coming at anybody or calling anyone liars, but after racing with friends last night driving for hours I’m not getting the same sensations that these cars are sooo hard to drive…
I've just spent a few hours running a GT86 at Willow in AC, PC2 and GT7.

Of the three, only one has almost no progressive loss of traction over the limit. Now I've never driven a GT86 as Willow, but I gave driven one at MIRA, and over the limit its loss of traction is progressive unless you've done something really stupid.

Over the limit isn't a digital switch, yet in GT7 it's lack of progression at that pointbis at odd with those who gave driven the cars in reality, track test reviews, other sim and the fundamentals of vehicle dynamics.
 
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